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Re: [weathering] Re: Sealing Weathering Powders (Bragdon Replies)


Sep 2, 2004

 


----------------------------

#731 Sep 2, 2004

i just uploaded 6 pictues into the photo albums under the combo

stations title. I used bragdon weathering kit #FF12 to do the "dark

rust" on the metal roof. I used their "dust bowl brown" colour on

the shingle roof in various spots. I used their "ash" on the

tarpaper section.

madmike



----------------------------

#732 Sep 2, 2004

-

madmike, i really enjoyed your combo stations photos. hope you post

more photos of other projects. roland lancaster, pa









-- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "michael lynch" madmike3434@y...>

wrote: > i just uploaded 6 pictues into the photo albums under the combo

> stations title. I used bragdon weathering kit #FF12 to do the "dark

> rust" on the metal roof. I used their "dust bowl brown" colour on

> the shingle roof in various spots. I used their "ash" on the

> tarpaper section.

> madmike



----------------------------

#733 Sep 2, 2004

Mike,

How well do the Bragdon weathering powders stand up to dullcote (i.e. how

much do they fade/disappear when dullcoted)?

I'm trying to find white/grey material to use on black steam/diesel for

weathering and the light-colored chalks I use on other non-black material

(with good results) really disappear unless I pile layer on layer on these

loco's.

Would like to hear anyone's experience with using the light-colored powders

(i.e. Bragdon "Ash") on black colored motive power.



Charlie McCullough

Lawrenceville, GA





At 09:36 AM 9/2/04, michael lynch wrote:

>i just uploaded 6 pictues into the photo albums under the combo

>stations title. I used bragdon weathering kit #FF12 to do the "dark

>rust" on the metal roof. I used their "dust bowl brown" colour on

>the shingle roof in various spots. I used their "ash" on the

>tarpaper section.



----------------------------

#734 Sep 3, 2004

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, Charlie McCullough cmccull@c...>

wrote: >

> Mike,

> How well do the Bragdon weathering powders stand up to dullcote

(i.e. how > much do they fade/disappear when dullcoted)?

> I'm trying to find white/grey material to use on black

steam/diesel for > weathering and the light-colored chalks I use on other non-black

material > (with good results) really disappear unless I pile layer on layer

on these > loco's.

> Would like to hear anyone's experience with using the light-

colored powders > (i.e. Bragdon "Ash") on black colored motive power.

>

> Charlie McCullough

> Lawrenceville, GA

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

CHARLIE....i resisted the urge to dullcote them and stayed with

bragdons recommendations of not doing it. Theirs are supposed to

stick to the surface with a powdered glue mixed in with the powder.

I would imagine if dullcoated it would effect it like the chalks and

reduce drastically the colouration to the object. Only way to tell

is to take a paper bag and paint it with floquils weathered black or

grimey or engine and then go to work on it with the powders and see

what happens. Nothing like experimentation to get the answers, thats

how i work things out, play first.................madmike >

>

> At 09:36 AM 9/2/04, michael lynch wrote:

>

> >i just uploaded 6 pictues into the photo albums under the combo

> >stations title. I used bragdon weathering kit #FF12 to do

the "dark > >rust" on the metal roof. I used their "dust bowl brown" colour on

> >the shingle roof in various spots. I used their "ash" on the

> >tarpaper section.



----------------------------

#742 Sep 8, 2004

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "michael lynch" madmike3434@y...>

wrote: > SNIP

>

> i resisted the urge to dullcote them and stayed with

> bragdons recommendations of not doing it. Theirs are supposed to

> stick to the surface with a powdered glue mixed in with the powder.

> SNIP

>



Humm . . .



If no sealing (i.e., with dullcoat) is recommended for the Bragdon's,

how well does the weathering stand up to handling? I was thinking of

purchasing the products to use on my rolling stock.



Thanks,



John Gibson

Rocklin, CA



----------------------------

#749 Sep 8, 2004

--- > > Humm . . .

>

> If no sealing (i.e., with dullcoat) is recommended for the

Bragdon's, > how well does the weathering stand up to handling? I was thinking

of > purchasing the products to use on my rolling stock.

> John Gibson

> Rocklin, CA

BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB



John, i have only done structure roofs with them.........so, would

suggest that its best to contact bragdon direct and get the creators

opinion as to exactly how they will stand up to handling. Personally

i would expect handling would contanimate the pigments with oils

from your fingers and dullcoating first would be recommended to

protect your work. Guess this would mean extra heavy coating of the

rolling stock with pigments. Hope you have some junkers around to

practice on first?..........madmike



----------------------------

#750 Sep 8, 2004

Hi All,



I have used Bragdon's weathering pigments for a few years now with great success. I apply them to custom finished engines, buildings, brass and styrene rolling stock to create weathering that no airbrush can achieve. They are "almost" permanent once applied onto a flat surface. Now what is "almost". Like many of you, I used chalks but they never stayed on and sealing them makes many colors disappear. I followed Bragdon's instructions and they withstood normal handling (mind you I take care in handling equipment and never touch them in areas that would show wear like the sides of tenders or rolling stock from repeated contact. Okay back to "almost" - After weathering a factory painted Sn 3 boxcar as I normally do with the pigments, I tried to wash off them off. I wanted to see just how tough they really were. With a lot of hot water, soap and elbow grease most if it came off. After this I was sold lock-stock-and-barrel. This product will withstand normal handling. Too bad

ya can't use this stuff on the ole corn flakes!!



Steve













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#751 Sep 8, 2004

John -

I have only used Bragdon on one passenger car, and it hasn't been handled

much so far. However, when I do handle it, there is no powder on my fingers

afterwards.

Bert



----------------------------

#755 Sep 8, 2004

I have used Bragdon powders on rolling stock and on structures.

The literature says that on a dull surface it becomes a part of that surface

as it is rubbed in. Granted that I handle my rolling stock only

occasionally, but none of the weathering seems to come off on my fingers. A

friend uses a light misting of dull coat on structures and rolling stock

after he applies the powders. IMHO, they are the best of the three types I

have tried.

But certainly that is a good point madmike makes about contacting the

manufacturer.

Cheers :)

Roy Inman



on 9/8/04 6:13 PM, michael lynch at madmike3434@... wrote:



--- > > Humm . . .

>

> If no sealing (i.e., with dullcoat) is recommended for the

Bragdon's, > how well does the weathering stand up to handling? I was thinking

of > purchasing the products to use on my rolling stock.

> John Gibson

> Rocklin, CA

BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB



John, i have only done structure roofs with them.........so, would

suggest that its best to contact bragdon direct and get the creators

opinion as to exactly how they will stand up to handling. Personally

i would expect handling would contanimate the pigments with oils

from your fingers and dullcoating first would be recommended to

protect your work. Guess this would mean extra heavy coating of the

rolling stock with pigments. Hope you have some junkers around to

practice on first?..........madmike





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----------------------------

#1111 Dec 6, 2004

Can anyone give me some feedback on the Bragdon line of weathering

products?Is it any better than other traditional agents? Worth the

money? Thanks.



----------------------------

#1112 Dec 6, 2004

In a message dated 12/6/04 6:13:59 AM Mountain Standard Time,

frosenbe@... writes:



< Can anyone give me some feedback on the Bragdon line of weathering

products?Is it any better than other traditional agents? Worth the money? >>



In the beginning I used the chalks. I was disappointed when it almost

disappeared when I sprayed fixatif on it.



I graduated to ladies' eyeshadow, worked much better and I didn't need the

overpray. And, it was cheap and had many acceptable colors.



A few years ago I was introduced to the Bragdon Weathering Powders. It's

worth comes from the micro-adhesive that's an integral part of the mixture. It

was more expensive than the eyeshadow so I bought just one of the colors to

experiment with. It adhered much better than the previous products. Didn't need

fixatif as no wear seemed to occur. So, I went back and spent the $20 for

the 12-piece set and have been happily using it ever since.



Therefor I'd have to say "yes, it's worth the money".



Try it, you'll like it.



Keevan



----------------------------

#1113 Dec 6, 2004

I learned at a demo of their powder to use a small, stiff artists brush cut down very close to the heel so you can "scrub" the powder onto the surface. Don't need to use much of the stuff and boy does it work well.



Ken





----- Original Message -----

From: Kjb80401@...

To: weathering@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 8:32 AM

Subject: Re: [weathering] Bragdon?





In a message dated 12/6/04 6:13:59 AM Mountain Standard Time,

frosenbe@... writes:



< Can anyone give me some feedback on the Bragdon line of weathering

products?Is it any better than other traditional agents? Worth the money? >>



In the beginning I used the chalks. I was disappointed when it almost

disappeared when I sprayed fixatif on it.



I graduated to ladies' eyeshadow, worked much better and I didn't need the

overpray. And, it was cheap and had many acceptable colors.



A few years ago I was introduced to the Bragdon Weathering Powders. It's

worth comes from the micro-adhesive that's an integral part of the mixture. It

was more expensive than the eyeshadow so I bought just one of the colors to

experiment with. It adhered much better than the previous products. Didn't need

fixatif as no wear seemed to occur. So, I went back and spent the $20 for

the 12-piece set and have been happily using it ever since.



Therefor I'd have to say "yes, it's worth the money".



Try it, you'll like it.



Keevan



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----------------------------

#1114 Dec 6, 2004

Ken writes -

I learned at a demo of their powder to use a small, stiff artists brush cut

down very close to the heel so you can "scrub" the powder onto the surface.

Don't need to use much of the stuff and boy does it work well.



Ken is right. I use a Royal #425, size 3. It's a taper-cut brush, so you get

a fade-in, fade-out effect. Also, in most cases, I don't clean the brush

much. Since most rust-dust-dirt-grime is a variety of colors, why bother?

I weathered stuff for years with an air-brush, and I've pretty much switched

over completely to the Bragdon powders.

Bert Greeley

President and Chief Bottle-Washer

Toothpick & Shovel RR



----------------------------

#1115 Dec 6, 2004

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "frnkrosenberg" frosenbe@v...>

wrote: >

> Can anyone give me some feedback on the Bragdon line of weathering

> products?Is it any better than other traditional agents? Worth the

> money? Thanks.

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

Frank , if you look in the photos section there are 4 structures all

done with bragdons product........they are ; AT THE VETS, BOONDOCK,

CANE FLY RODS, PIONEER.........do i like the product, you bet. Best

thing i have ever used. Only colours in the 12 bag colour set i

haven't figured out what to use them on, are a blue and a yellowish

colour.

madmike



----------------------------

#1116 Dec 6, 2004

To all,



I am not a chemist but my understanding of Bragdon powders vs. chalks is

this.



Chalks and similar products have a binding agent to hold the particles

together. When you scrape the chalks you also get some of the binding

agent. This means that you are not getting 100% colour but some other

chemicals as well.



Bragdon and also Carr's (from UK), weathering powders are colour

pigments. They have no binding agents so the powder is more pure than

the chalks. In addition I believe (but do not know for certain) that

Bragdon adds some kind of adhesive.



It is due to the lack of binding agent that makes the weathering powders

superior to the chalks.



Bragdon is available form www.bragdonent.com/



Carr's is available form www.ogauge.co.uk/carrs.html





Regards

Rod Hutchinson

Melbourne, Australia



----------------------------

#1117 Dec 6, 2004

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "frnkrosenberg" frosenbe@v...>

wrote: >

> Can anyone give me some feedback on the Bragdon line of weathering

> products?Is it any better than other traditional agents? Worth the

> money? Thanks.



HI:



Bought some - I had never weathered before and it worked really

well. Will continue to use it -



Used a spray-on fixative - matte - to get it to stay on without

being affected by fingers working with freight cars...



Bob



----------------------------

#1118 Dec 6, 2004

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "frnkrosenberg" frosenbe@v...>

wrote: >

> Can anyone give me some feedback on the Bragdon line of weathering

> products?Is it any better than other traditional agents? Worth the

> money? Thanks.



Forgot to mention that once it is on it is almost impossible to

remove - so use sparingly.



I have one rather dark caboose :)



Bob



----------------------------

#1119 Dec 7, 2004

You don't need to use a fixative if you scrub it on . The more you scrub the better it sticks.



Ken





----- Original Message -----

From: bob

To: weathering@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 9:54 PM

Subject: [weathering] Re: Bragdon?







--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "frnkrosenberg" frosenbe@v...>

wrote:

>

> Can anyone give me some feedback on the Bragdon line of weathering

> products?Is it any better than other traditional agents? Worth the

> money? Thanks.



HI:



Bought some - I had never weathered before and it worked really

well. Will continue to use it -



Used a spray-on fixative - matte - to get it to stay on without

being affected by fingers working with freight cars...



Bob









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----------------------------

#1120 Dec 7, 2004

In a message dated 12/6/04 7:59:58 PM Mountain Standard Time,

rbyck@... writes:



< Forgot to mention that once it is on it is almost impossible to remove -

so use sparingly. >>



I found this to be true so I don't use a fixative to set it. Not needed.



Keevan







----------------------------

#1129 Dec 8, 2004

Yes but a light covering of Matte will minimize getting it onto your

fingers if you msut pick up or otherwise touch a model.



Bob



--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, Kjb80401@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 12/6/04 7:59:58 PM Mountain Standard Time,

> rbyck@s... writes:

>

> < Forgot to mention that once it is on it is almost impossible to

remove -

> so use sparingly. >>

>

> I found this to be true so I don't use a fixative to set it. Not

needed.

>

> Keevan



----------------------------

#1137 Dec 8, 2004

I have used the Bragdon powders with mixed results. I tried to weather a

black Stewart VO-1000 with their powders and all the scrubbing in the world

wouldn't make it stick to the black plastic. Every time I touched it, I

wound up with a shinny finger print and a dirty finger.







I wound up spraying it with Dullcote, which disappears just like chalk, but

at least now I can move the locomotive.







Chris Atkins



Lewisville, TX







_____



From: bob [mailto:rbyck@...]

Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 3:32 PM

To: weathering@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [weathering] Re: Bragdon?









Yes but a light covering of Matte will minimize getting it onto your

fingers if you msut pick up or otherwise touch a model.



Bob



--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, Kjb80401@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 12/6/04 7:59:58 PM Mountain Standard Time,

> rbyck@s... writes:

>

> < Forgot to mention that once it is on it is almost impossible to

remove -

> so use sparingly. >>

>

> I found this to be true so I don't use a fixative to set it. Not

needed.

>

> Keevan













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#1148 Dec 11, 2004

At 07:44 PM 12/8/04, Chris Atkins wrote:

>I have used the Bragdon powders with mixed results. I tried to weather a

>black Stewart VO-1000 with their powders and all the scrubbing in the world

>wouldn't make it stick to the black plastic. Every time I touched it, I

>wound up with a shinny finger print and a dirty finger.

>

>I wound up spraying it with Dullcote, which disappears just like chalk, but

>at least now I can move the locomotive.



I've found that with these - especially on factory paint jobs - you can get

better "sticking" results if you give the rolling stock a very light shot

of Dullcote before you start with the powders. Gives some tooth to the

surface and helps the powders to stick easier/better.



I also finish up (lightly) with Dullcote to prevent getting dirty fingers.

The Dullcote will slightly diminish overall effect but I've found by

adjusting amount of powders I use (and especially putting on the initial

"pre-Dullcote" covering), I can get the results I'm after.



For stuff with low probability of being handled (such as structures,

scenery, etc.) I don't usually bother with the post-Dullcote shot.



Best weathering powders I've ever come across. These along with some

judicious use of artist oils has become the only weathering system I use

these days.



Charlie McCullough

Lawrenceville, GA



----------------------------

#1306 Jan 17, 2005

I just uploaded 6 pictures of structures using various colours of

bragdon pigments in the photos section, under the title " bragdon

pigments in use "........madmike



----------------------------

#1307 Jan 17, 2005

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "michael lynch" madmike3434@y...>

wrote: > Mike,

Looking good! I assume G scale or therabouts? Do you use any fixative

over the Bragdon powders?

Thanks

Chuck Doan > I just uploaded 6 pictures of structures using various colours of

> bragdon pigments in the photos section, under the title " bragdon

> pigments in use "........madmike



----------------------------

#1308 Jan 17, 2005

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "doanchuck" chuck@c...> wrote: >

> --- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "michael lynch"

madmike3434@y...> > wrote:

> > Mike,

> Looking good! I assume G scale or therabouts? Do you use any

fixative > over the Bragdon powders?

> Thanks

> Chuck Doan

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>...



Chuck......sorry, should have mentioned its all O scale. No, i do

not use any fixative over the pigments as there is something in the

pigments mixed in by bragdon that makes the pigments stick on their

own. Label said to just work it in with stiff brushes and not to

use dullcoat or anything else. I use a stuff brush and a ladies

facial make-up soft brush, looks like a mushrrom top, one inch

round, i found on the street.

The have a big selection of colours....most of the pictures are

using dark rust colour, one is a combination of medium and dark

rust. The green roof is meant to duplicate a verigated copper roof.



Bragdon has 12 colours for weathering in a plastic container with

12 little plastic bags for $20--25.....best money i have ever spent,

they have a website if you GOOGLE it.

Note.....make sure when applying it to have a card under the eves to

catch the excess that gets brushed down, so it can be put back into

the bag. Any excess hitting your scenery will stain it and not just

blow off. ..........madmike







----------------------------

#1327 Jan 17, 2005

Hi All. Ijust started using the Bradon products and was wondering if

anyone knows of any health concerns associated with them. Thanks.

Roland, Lancaster, Pa



----------------------------

#1328 Jan 17, 2005

Hi All. Ijust started using the Bradon products and was wondering if

> anyone knows of any health concerns associated with them. Thanks.

> Roland, Lancaster, Pa



They make a very poor salad dressing. :-)



Seriously, what are they, chalk? If so, then whatever minor precautions are

required for chalk. Still, these days, you'll probably have to wear a full

environmental suit, just to be safe of course.



Cheers

Roger T.



Home of the Great Eastern Railway

www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/



----------------------------

#1329 Jan 17, 2005

Yes......Don't sniff them all in one go,'cos they may make you sneeze.



Other than that I don't suppose they are any more dangerous than any other

fine powder,flour for instance.

Common sense,that's all it needs.Just like when using etchants.



Nick





----- Original Message -----

From: "nascar912001" nascar912001@...>

To: weathering@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 12:43 AM

Subject: [weathering] Bragdon chalks





>

>

> Hi All. Ijust started using the Bradon products and was wondering if

> anyone knows of any health concerns associated with them. Thanks.

> Roland, Lancaster, Pa

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>



----------------------------

#1332 Jan 17, 2005

Roland-

There probably is not anything to be concerned about. However, Bragdon's website gives this e-mail address:



You could always ask him your question.



Bob Chaparro

Mission Viejo, CA



nascar912001 nascar912001@...> wrote:



Hi All. Ijust started using the Bradon products and was wondering if

anyone knows of any health concerns associated with them. Thanks.

Roland, Lancaster, Pa











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----------------------------

#1334 Jan 17, 2005

Does Yahoo block displays of e-mail addresses?

Bragdon's is

jbragdon at bragdonnet dot com



Bob Chaparro

Mission Viejo, CA



Bob Chaparro thecitrusbelt@...> wrote:

Roland-

There probably is not anything to be concerned about. However, Bragdon's website gives this e-mail address:



You could always ask him your question.



Bob Chaparro

Mission Viejo, CA



nascar912001 nascar912001@...> wrote:



Hi All. Ijust started using the Bradon products and was wondering if

anyone knows of any health concerns associated with them. Thanks.

Roland, Lancaster, Pa











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----------------------------

#1336 Jan 17, 2005

to quote from bragdons website..............."This weathering powder

will adhere to any non-glossy surface. IT IS NOT CHALK. one quick

step gives a very realistic rusty, sooty surface - instantly. No

drying or curing is necessary. Use sparingly, a little goes a long

way. This product is made from real rust and other weathering agents

that have been ball milled to a particle size over 100 times finer

than chalk and blended with a pressure sentsitive, dry adhesive.

Self adhesive to most surfaces. Non-magnetic and Non-toxic. "



there ya go everything we all wanted to know and were afraid to ask,

and its NON TOXIC to the person asking that part.....your supposed

to work it into the part your weathering said the kit instructions i

have......madmike......happily weathering away with bragdon

weathering agents







----------------------------

#1338 Jan 17, 2005

Great response to the original question. I guess we can "chalk" this one up as solved!



michael lynch madmike3434@...> wrote:

to quote from bragdons website..............."This weathering powder

will adhere to any non-glossy surface. IT IS NOT CHALK. one quick

step gives a very realistic rusty, sooty surface - instantly. No

drying or curing is necessary. Use sparingly, a little goes a long

way. This product is made from real rust and other weathering agents

that have been ball milled to a particle size over 100 times finer

than chalk and blended with a pressure sentsitive, dry adhesive.

Self adhesive to most surfaces. Non-magnetic and Non-toxic. "



there ya go everything we all wanted to know and were afraid to ask,

and its NON TOXIC to the person asking that part.....your supposed

to work it into the part your weathering said the kit instructions i

have......madmike......happily weathering away with bragdon

weathering agents











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----------------------------

#1347 Jan 18, 2005

Don't eat the stuff. :-)



Ken





----- Original Message -----

From: nascar912001

To: weathering@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 7:43 PM

Subject: [weathering] Bragdon chalks







Hi All. Ijust started using the Bradon products and was wondering if

anyone knows of any health concerns associated with them. Thanks.

Roland, Lancaster, Pa











---------------

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----------------------------

#1349 Jan 18, 2005

In a message dated 1/17/05 5:43:47 PM Mountain Standard Time,

nascar912001@... writes:



< Ijust started using the Bradon products and was wondering if anyone knows

of any health concerns associated with them. >>



Not to be taken internally.



Keevan



----------------------------

#1350 Jan 18, 2005

The below fragment of an earlier statement posted reminds me of a clinic

that I attended years ago by friend & fellow modeler Robert Smith (of 3/8"

fame) about using "real rust" for anything in scale modeling. Robert was

conducting a clinic on creating real rust by stuffing 0000 steel wool into a

bottle of vinegar. This bottle would then be set out in the sunlight for two

weeks and then, viola!, we had a bottle of real rust.



As a warning however, Robert made a statement that has echoed ever since,

"One issue with incorporating an active agent such as iron oxide (rust) into

scale modeling is that it is like a virus, it gets into everything." This

technique was a great idea but came with consequences. That being said and

being familiar with the Bragdon product line, I seriously doubt that there

is any FeO2 in the product. The Liability & potential damage could be

significant. You see, the once that this active agent FeO2 is applied,

especially in a fine, ground powder form, anything & everything that comes

in contact now has that active agent. And every metal drawbar, motor

armature, metal plated anything with begin to corrode. Unfortunately, we

don't notice it until the loco stops running, the switch stops switching,

and we rub our eye with a finger that has just brushed something that has

been in contact with the active agent.



This is no ding to you, Michael. You are just quoting the website. My point

here is that we hobby manufacturers, sometimes over market a product without

the concern for potential consequences, which is most likely the case here.

As I stated above, I am familiar with this product line & it has a great

application. My concern still, is using "real rust" if this in fact true &

only Bragdon can answer this concern which is why I have copied him on this

message.



Ben Bendever





-----Original Message-----

to quote from bragdons website...............SNIP>This product is made from

real rust and other weathering agents that have been ball milled to a

particle size over 100 times finer than chalk . . . michael lynch



----------------------------

#2004 Apr 10, 2005

hello everyone: i deleted all my other pictures and posted a new one.

it's an SW8 (raritan river rr) o scale switcher, weathered w/bragdon

chaulks. pete







----------------------------

#2006 Apr 11, 2005

Hello group.



Would you help me.

How can I contact BRAGDON Enterprises?



Thank you for your help.



Michel



----------------------------

#2007 Apr 11, 2005

BRAGDON Enterprises



www.bragdonent.com/





Regards



Rod Hutchinson

Growing Old Disgracefully in

Melbourne, Australia.





Would you help me.

How can I contact BRAGDON Enterprises?



[Rod Hutchinson]

Michel



----------------------------

#2008 Apr 11, 2005

www.bragdonent.com/







At 11:29 AM 4/11/2005 +0200, you wrote:

>Hello group.

>

>Would you help me.

>How can I contact BRAGDON Enterprises?

>

>Thank you for your help.

>

>Michel

>

>

>

>

>Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>



----------------------------

#2009 Apr 11, 2005

Thank you for the info, but do you know their @mail box?

The @mail jbragdon@... don't answer...



Michel.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Clark Womack" clarkw@...>

To: weathering@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 4:34 PM

Subject: Re: [weathering] Bragdon





>

> www.bragdonent.com/

>

>

>

> At 11:29 AM 4/11/2005 +0200, you wrote:

>

> >Hello group.

> >

> >Would you help me.

> >How can I contact BRAGDON Enterprises?

> >

> >Thank you for your help.

> >

> >Michel

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>



----------------------------

#2010 Apr 11, 2005

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "Michel.STAFFE" michel.staffe@w...>

wrote: > Hello group.

>

> Would you help me.

> How can I contact BRAGDON Enterprises?

>

> Thank you for your help.

>

> Michel



Joel Bragdon's address is:



2960 Garden Tower

Georgetown, CA 95634



Phone: 530-333-1365

Fax: 530-333-1051



----------------------------

#2051 Apr 23, 2005

I just uploaded a bunch of oversize photos into the FILES section

under the title BRAGDON PIGMENTS to show the product in use.

This is done over builders in scale O scale raised seam steel roofing

that has been acid etched first and then brushed with the product.

In one set of pictures ( parson's 3 cane fly rods )with the green

colour this was done to simulate a green verigated copper roof.



When using this product it is best to apply it before installing on

the diorama base or layout as any excess getting onto the ground cover

will colour it also.!!! I use a card along the edge to catch the

excesss and put back into the container, i learned the hard way after

making a mess and redoing some scenicing.......



These photos will be removed mon--tues.............madmike



----------------------------

#2064 Apr 24, 2005

Mike - thanks great photos. What color did you use to get the red roofs to

begin with and also that grey color on the cane fly rods?



Angela







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#2065 Apr 24, 2005

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, Gilliedog@a... wrote: > Mike - thanks great photos. What color did you use to get the red

roofs to > begin with and also that grey color on the cane fly rods?

>

> Angela

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Angela...from the 12 colours in the set i have been using mostly

DARK RUST and light rust....with dark being used the most.



The GREEN colour used on the parsons 3...cane fly rods ...is GREEN

GRUNGE, which i think really matches a naturel patina green on a

copper roof.



Its a great set and worth every penny, works great on locos too as

someone else posted a photo of theirs.

madmike



----------------------------

#2066 Apr 24, 2005

Mike, I have the set of 12 pigments and I'm just starting to learn to use

them and experiment. Do you put anything on the roofing first, or just use the

pigments?



Angela







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#2069 Apr 24, 2005

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, Gilliedog@a... wrote: > Mike, I have the set of 12 pigments and I'm just starting to learn

to use > them and experiment. Do you put anything on the roofing first, or

just use the > pigments?

> Angela

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

ANGELA....when i use aluminum "raised seam roofing" from Builders in

Scale /c c crow or HO "corregated roofing/siding" from campbell i

always treat both of them using "ferric chloric acid" circuit board

cleaner which takes the surface of the aluminum and makes it rusty.

Problem with the aluminum is that if you try to paint " as is" using

floquil paints, if you try to go over it again the thinners will lift

the first coat of paint exposing the shiney aluminum. After the

aluminum is treated with the acid you can paint, apply pigments,

chalks what ever you want without worry of it lifting.



I imagine one can actually read the instructions that come with the

matterials, but i have been doing it the acid way and like the effect

and the ease of application. Some others may seal the sidings with

dullcoat or paint or any number of combinations prior to applying

topcoats. I found that alcohol ink washes after an intial painting of

floquil paints caused the paint to lift.



What are others methods of treating either the B I S or the Campbell

sidings in order to hold paint and then be able to

weather ???????????????????????? madmike







----------------------------

#2074 Apr 24, 2005

Thanks Mike, I haven't tried using the acid yet. I'd like to give it a try

though on my next metal roof.



Angela







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#2077 Apr 24, 2005

Thanks for the photos of the etched roofing Mike. I have saved them to a

file on my computer.



Angela







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#2078 Apr 26, 2005

Bragdon pigments are highly recomended. I have used the browns to

color most of wood on the models on my website, not to mention the

iron parts. Rub into the wood with an old toothbrush and affix with

alcohol/ink and buff with a wire brush for a little bit of aged grey -

done!

Jon

Morgan Hill Models

www.morganhillmodels.com/



----------------------------

#2219 May 11, 2005

Dear weather-people,



I just received a set of the Bragdon powders. To those of you that

have been using these items for awhile have you found one type of

brush to work better than others? For example: a cosmetic brush, water

color brush or a firmer bristle. I assume a round is better than a

flat. How about one of those brushes they use on CSI. That should make

quite a mess.



Colin Claxon



----------------------------

#2220 May 11, 2005

hi colin: i'm sure if there are 35 answers to your query, there will

be 35 different types of brushes modelers swear by! i get fantastic

results using any old, cheap brush i pick up off the workbench! don't

fret, you can always ERASE the parts you don't like. pete



----------------------------

#2224 May 11, 2005

In a message dated 5/11/2005 12:19:44 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

westfieldweavers@... writes:



To those of you that

have been using these items for awhile have you found one type of

brush to work better than others?







Colin,



The ones I most often use are artists' type flat brushes with rather stiff

bristles, widths varying according to the space I'm working on.



I use others to a lesser degree and it depends on what I think works best at

that moment.



Keevan





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#2226 May 11, 2005

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "nickon30" westfieldweavers@w...>

wrote: > Dear weather-people,

>

> I just received a set of the Bragdon powders. To those of you that

> have been using these items for awhile have you found one type of

> brush to work better than others? For example: a cosmetic brush,

water > color brush or a firmer bristle. I assume a round is better than a

> flat. How about one of those brushes they use on CSI. That should

make > quite a mess.

> Colin Claxon

BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB

COLIN....i use about 4 brushes.......one stiff type, one medium, one

very soft and a kinda reverse cone shape with flat end women use to

apply makeup, twirl the product into the material.

ALWAYS !!!!!!!, put a piece of paper to catch the excess that gets

brushed off a roof and put back into bag.....get it on your ground

cover and its real hard to get off.

If your going to apply to a roof that goes up against a wood wall,

use masking tape to mask off the wood wall, otherwise you will get it

on that too.....been there done it, big mess......mamdike



----------------------------

#2229 May 11, 2005

I just got my 12 bag set of powders from Bragdon. How do you guys who

use them store them. The little zip lock bags just don't cut it. Do you

use baby food jars, paint jars? What?



Martin



----------------------------

#2231 May 11, 2005

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, Martin Rosenfeld rosenfeldmj@c...>

wrote: > I just got my 12 bag set of powders from Bragdon. How do you guys

who > use them store them. The little zip lock bags just don't cut it. Do

you > use baby food jars, paint jars? What?

> Martin

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

MARTIN.........whats wrong with the plastic zip lock bags ????? Mine

are about 9 months or less old and do not see or feel any lumpiness in

the product...any particular reason your disatisfied with baggies.??

madmike



----------------------------

#2233 May 11, 2005

I started using these powders a little and I use a small stencil brush, it

has really short stubby bristles and I can rub the powder easily with it. The

lady who sold me the powders told me to use a hard short bristle brush of

some kind.

Angela



In a message dated 5/11/2005 3:28:54 PM Central Standard Time,

Kjb80401@... writes:



In a message dated 5/11/2005 12:19:44 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

westfieldweavers@... writes:



To those of you that

have been using these items for awhile have you found one type of

brush to work better than others?







Colin,



The ones I most often use are artists' type flat brushes with rather stiff

bristles, widths varying according to the space I'm working on.



I use others to a lesser degree and it depends on what I think works best

at

that moment.



Keevan









Love,

Angela and Gary







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#2234 May 11, 2005

Madmike,



I'm pretty clumsy and fear spilling from the bags. Also, it might be

difficult to pour back into them from a sheet of paper (which I guess I

will crease in the middle to facilitate puring). I might try using the

bags as is.



Martin



>MARTIN.........whats wrong with the plastic zip lock bags ????? Mine

>are about 9 months or less old and do not see or feel any lumpiness in

>the product...any particular reason your disatisfied with baggies.??

>madmike

>..

>

>



----------------------------

#2235 May 11, 2005

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, Martin Rosenfeld

rosenfeldmj@c...> wrote: > Madmike,

>

> I'm pretty clumsy and fear spilling from the bags. Also, it might

be > difficult to pour back into them from a sheet of paper (which I

guess I > will crease in the middle to facilitate puring). I might try using

the > bags as is.

>

> Martin

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV



Actually now that i read your reply, ya those little baggies are a

little difficult to handle and keep upright, but they do not break if

dropped............there again the little bottles actually make

perfect sense for ease of access to the product....just ordered 2 big

bags ( 4 oz ) of the dark rust, now who's had a baby in the

neighbourhood ????? madmike



----------------------------

#2236 May 11, 2005

In a message dated 5/11/2005 5:07:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

Gilliedog@... writes:



The

lady who sold me the powders told me to use a hard short bristle brush of

some kind.









Angela, and others,



According to Joel Bragdon, the logic behind using stiff bristles is because

the powders contain micro-sized glue particles that are activated upon rubbing

onto the surface. The stiff bristles apply more pressure than soft

bristles to the surface and thus activates the adhesive better.



Keevan





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#2238 May 11, 2005

My 2-oz of rust came in a nice plastic box with a difficult-to-manage lid.

>Actually now that i read your reply, ya those little baggies are a

>little difficult to handle and keep upright, but they do not break if

>dropped............there again the little bottles actually make

>perfect sense for ease of access to the product....just ordered 2 big

>bags ( 4 oz ) of the dark rust, now who's had a baby in the

>neighbourhood ????? madmike

>

>



----------------------------

#2240 May 11, 2005

All,

Yogurt containers. The ones that have nice, secure lids. Use a scrap

piece of wood and a hole-saw, to cut a holes that will catch the containers

about 3/4 of the way up . Put a couple of ends on it, and you have a nice

holder. Size it to your work area (for most of us that is 6" x 6" ;-p ).

And you get to eat the yogurt (Please don't weather it prior to

consumption).



C. Doug Underwood

Corvallis & Yaquina





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#2242 May 11, 2005

WHAT ARE THESE BRANDON POWDERS



-------Original Message-------



From: Kjb80401@...

Date: 05/12/05 10:13:28

To: weathering@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [weathering] Bragdon Powders





In a message dated 5/11/2005 5:07:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

Gilliedog@... writes:



The

lady who sold me the powders told me to use a hard short bristle brush of

some kind.









Angela, and others,



According to Joel Bragdon, the logic behind using stiff bristles is because



the powders contain micro-sized glue particles that are activated upon

rubbing

onto the surface. The stiff bristles apply more pressure than soft

bristles to the surface and thus activates the adhesive better.



Keevan





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









Yahoo! Groups Links



To visit your group on the web, go to:

groups.yahoo.com/group/weathering/



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

weathering-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#2243 May 11, 2005

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "mark noble" rex110@b...> wrote: > WHAT ARE THESE BRANDON POWDERS

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN



The word is BRAGDON, suggest you google the name and go to the

companies website. Better yet go back 50 or so posts in this group and

look for the word bragdon in titles, should be enough in the titles to

give you an idea of whats being talked about.

You should be able to do a search right in this group..........madmike



----------------------------

#2244 May 11, 2005

In a message dated 5/11/2005 6:53:42 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

rex110@... writes:



WHAT ARE THESE BRAGDON POWDERS ?





Rex,



Check the message threads on the Weathering web site and:



Bragdon Enterprises: _www.bragdonent.com_ (www.bragdonent.com)



Keevan





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#2245 May 11, 2005

How about going to your local wal-mart or equivalent and getting a week long pill box. got seven little boxes with lids.

get two if you need more.





Floyd Shell

fshelltx@...



----- Original Message -----

From: Martin Rosenfeld

To: weathering@yahoogroups.com

Sent: 5/11/2005 4:08:53 PM

Subject: Re: [weathering] Re: Bragdon colors...Question...?





Madmike,



I'm pretty clumsy and fear spilling from the bags. Also, it might be

difficult to pour back into them from a sheet of paper (which I guess I

will crease in the middle to facilitate puring). I might try using the

bags as is.



Martin





>MARTIN.........whats wrong with the plastic zip lock bags ????? Mine

>are about 9 months or less old and do not see or feel any lumpiness in

>the product...any particular reason your disatisfied with baggies.??

>madmike

>

>

>









Yahoo! Groups Links



To visit your group on the web, go to:

groups.yahoo.com/group/weathering/



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

weathering-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#2246 May 11, 2005

Bragdon sells a plastic box with 12 compartments. I have two boxes.

I have Bragdon's powders in one and Carr's (UK) in another.





Regards

Rod Hutchinson

---------------

Melbourne, Australia

> Subject: [weathering] Bragdon colors...Question...?

>

> I just got my 12 bag set of powders from Bragdon. How do you guys who

> use them store them. The little zip lock bags just don't cut it. Do

you > use baby food jars, paint jars? What?

>

> Martin



----------------------------

#2259 May 11, 2005

FLOYD: My 'really cheap' approach is to haunt the dollar stores. You can

often pick up eye-shadow paint boxes for $1.

Choose the brown shades, & get a nice little brush.

It sticks well too;-} of course you get some funny looks.

BOB - Orillia ----- Original Message -----

From: "FLOYD SHELL" fshelltx@...>

To: weathering@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 9:17 PM

Subject: Re: [weathering] Re: Bragdon colors...Question...?





> How about going to your local wal-mart or equivalent and getting a week

> long pill box. got seven little boxes with lids.

> get two if you need more.

>

>

> Floyd Shell

> fshelltx@...

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Martin Rosenfeld

> To: weathering@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: 5/11/2005 4:08:53 PM

> Subject: Re: [weathering] Re: Bragdon colors...Question...?

>

>

> Madmike,

>

> I'm pretty clumsy and fear spilling from the bags. Also, it might be

> difficult to pour back into them from a sheet of paper (which I guess I

> will crease in the middle to facilitate puring). I might try using the

> bags as is.

>

> Martin

>

>

>>MARTIN.........whats wrong with the plastic zip lock bags ????? Mine

>>are about 9 months or less old and do not see or feel any lumpiness in

>>the product...any particular reason your disatisfied with baggies.??

>>madmike

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

> To visit your group on the web, go to:

> groups.yahoo.com/group/weathering/

>

> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

> weathering-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

>

>



----------------------------

#2260 May 11, 2005

I keep mine in the square containers they come in. The soft pastels I buy, however, I store in some plastic 'viels' I bought off Ebay, 100 of them for about 30 bucks with easy to remove plastic caps. There are many different sizes, measured in 'drams'. Mine are about 1-1/4" dia, by about 3" tall. I had thought about transfering my Bragdon's over to them.

Tony



Martin Rosenfeld rosenfeldmj@...> wrote:

I just got my 12 bag set of powders from Bragdon. How do you guys who

use them store them. The little zip lock bags just don't cut it. Do you

use baby food jars, paint jars? What?



Martin





---------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



To visit your group on the web, go to:

groups.yahoo.com/group/weathering/



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

weathering-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.











test';



test';



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#2265 May 12, 2005

For inexpensive containers, go to www.sciplus.com> and click on

"containers". I am sure that you will find something suitable and at a

reasonable price.



Mike



Tony Burgess wrote: > I keep mine in the square containers they come in. The soft pastels I

> buy, however, I store in some plastic 'viels' I bought off Ebay, 100 of

> them for about 30 bucks with easy to remove plastic caps. There are many

> different sizes, measured in 'drams'. Mine are about 1-1/4" dia, by

> about 3" tall. I had thought about transfering my Bragdon's over to them.

> Tony

>

> Martin Rosenfeld rosenfeldmj@...> wrote:

> I just got my 12 bag set of powders from Bragdon. How do you guys who

> use them store them. The little zip lock bags just don't cut it. Do you

> use baby food jars, paint jars? What?

>

> Martin

>



--

Mike Sloane

Allamuchy NJ

mikesloane@...

Images: www.fotki.com/mikesloane>



If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry

about the answers. -Thomas Pynchon, writer (1937- )





--

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.8 - Release Date: 05/10/2005



----------------------------

#2270 May 12, 2005

Tony,



Thanks for the idea. I will see what my friendly pharmacist has without

childproof tops.



Martin



Tony Burgess wrote:

>I keep mine in the square containers they come in. The soft pastels I buy, however, I store in some plastic 'viels' I bought off Ebay, 100 of them for about 30 bucks with easy to remove plastic caps. There are many different sizes, measured in 'drams'. Mine are about 1-1/4" dia, by about 3" tall. I had thought about transfering my Bragdon's over to them.

>Tony

>

>



----------------------------

#2273 May 12, 2005

Thanks Keevan, I know they work well, now I know why.

Angela





In a message dated 5/11/2005 7:15:59 PM Central Standard Time,

Kjb80401@... writes:



In a message dated 5/11/2005 5:07:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

Gilliedog@... writes:



The

lady who sold me the powders told me to use a hard short bristle brush of

some kind.









Angela, and others,



According to Joel Bragdon, the logic behind using stiff bristles is because

the powders contain micro-sized glue particles that are activated upon

rubbing

onto the surface. The stiff bristles apply more pressure than soft

bristles to the surface and thus activates the adhesive better.



Keevan

















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#2274 May 12, 2005

Rod what is the difference between the Bragdon's and Carr's? Is one better

than the other or have different colors?

Angela





In a message dated 5/11/2005 8:21:11 PM Central Standard Time,

r.hutchinson@... writes:



Bragdon sells a plastic box with 12 compartments. I have two boxes.

I have Bragdon's powders in one and Carr's (UK) in another.





Regards

Rod Hutchinson

















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#2340 May 14, 2005

Hello all,



I spoke to Mr. Bragdon at the Pacific Coast NMRA convention and told

him of the activity on the list. He said he would check things out and

I imagine will answer questions.



Glen



--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, Gilliedog@a... wrote:

>

>

> Thanks Keevan, I know they work well, now I know why.

> Angela

>

>

> In a message dated 5/11/2005 7:15:59 PM Central Standard Time,

> Kjb80401@a... writes:

>

> In a message dated 5/11/2005 5:07:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

> Gilliedog@a... writes:

>

> The

> lady who sold me the powders told me to use a hard short bristle

brush of

> some kind.

>

>

>

>

> Angela, and others,

>

> According to Joel Bragdon, the logic behind using stiff bristles is

because

> the powders contain micro-sized glue particles that are activated upon

> rubbing

> onto the surface. The stiff bristles apply more pressure than soft

> bristles to the surface and thus activates the adhesive better.

>

> Keevan

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#2341 May 15, 2005

what kind of brushes do people use to apply the powders and where did they

get them Thanks Scott Hurley(new member)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#2345 May 15, 2005

Scott,



I went down to the local crafts store and got a

package of the cheapest small paint brushes they sell.

I cut the bristles down to about 1/4 inch long and use

that. I bought a package of 10 for about $1.



Glen





--- railfan22@... wrote:

---------------

what kind of brushes do people use to apply the

powders and where did they

get them Thanks Scott Hurley(new member)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







---------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



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Glen Simpson



livesteam2000@...



If it is non-stick how do they get the coating to stick to the pan?







----------------------------

#2368 May 18, 2005

I use a cheap stencil brush, also found in the craft store, don't use

any good ones. Why a stencil brush..so you can scrub the powders in,

scrubbing activates the micro glues..in them. other wise its just chalk.



Les

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, railfan22@a... wrote:

> what kind of brushes do people use to apply the powders and where

did they

> get them Thanks Scott Hurley(new member)

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#4016 Feb 13, 2006

I thought somebody on here demonstrated how they used bragdon chalk

awhile back. If I recall, they put stripwood in a shallow pan and

started rubbing the chalk into the wood until they got the look they

were after. Can whoever did this update me, is that correct?



On a side note, Im building my PBL Chama Sand House and its going

together nicely, love those laser kits. I used the Kiwi liquid brown

show polish per Jimmy Booth's instructions and was real pleased with

the results. You can see the progress here on my blog:



mysn3.blogspot.com/



----------------------------

#4036 Feb 15, 2006

Hi JD,

I don't know the info you had seen, but I have been using Bragdon

powder successfully for coloring wood. The link to my album is here:



public.fotki.com/ChuckDoan/barn_and_tractor_diorama/



I have posted descriptions under many of the photos.



Chuck D.











--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "JD" jdmckee@...> wrote:

>

> I thought somebody on here demonstrated how they used bragdon chalk

> awhile back. If I recall, they put stripwood in a shallow pan and

> started rubbing the chalk into the wood until they got the look they

> were after. Can whoever did this update me, is that correct?

>

> On a side note, Im building my PBL Chama Sand House and its going

> together nicely, love those laser kits. I used the Kiwi liquid brown

> show polish per Jimmy Booth's instructions and was real pleased with

> the results. You can see the progress here on my blog:

>

> mysn3.blogspot.com/

>



----------------------------

#4043 Feb 17, 2006

Incredible work, thanks for sharing it Chuck.

Angela









Subject: Re: Bragdon Chalk



Hi JD,

I don't know the info you had seen, but I have been using Bragdon

powder successfully for coloring wood. The link to my album is here:



public.fotki.com/ChuckDoan/barn_and_tractor_diorama/



I have posted descriptions under many of the photos.



Chuck D.









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#6183 May 1, 2007

I believe that the Bragdon's products are actually 'true pigment'. If

they aren't then this post should be read as being about similar products

to the Bragdon's ... but that are pigments. I have used straight pigments

and my recommendation is that you 'go slowly until you figure out how to

use them.

Handling pigments is very different than when you are using chalks.

Specifically they will get on - and stain - areas you may not want stained.

And if you get them on your fingers they will leave fingerprints that are

very difficult to remove. Chalks, on the other hand, can just be washed

off and you can start over.



I'm not saying "don't use weathering products that are pure pigment".

I'm saying ... be very careful with them because somoe of the long term

effects may be a surprise to you.



A case in point to make this easier to understand. A layout I volunteer

on used pigment to stain and color real wood ties to a nice deep brown

color for the hand-layed track to be layed over them.

Then a couple of years later (its a -large- layout) we got around to doing

the ballast in that area. The 50-50 water+alcohol we were using to wet

the area prior to gluing down the ballast 'leached' the pigment out of the

ties ... and stained all the ballast a light brown. Definitely not the

'some color of gray' that the owner wanted for the mainline. OK, you say.

But the thing is that the -pigment- has permanently changed the color of

the ballast in that area and so we are faced with re-coloring the ballast.

Ie. we have to figure out what color product we can use that will go on

over the pigment and actually cover it. The best way to describe what

this area looked like after the pigment leached out is to think of 'rust

pools' or 'waves of color on a shore' where the color is irregularly

regular and definitely not what you might see as the color of the track

and ties and ballast on any RR any of us have ever seen.

If the color on the ties had been done with anything except pigment

it would have been less likely to leach out ... and would not be as

difficult to cover.

I'm not certain this was Bragdon's ... but if it wasn't then it was a

product that is very similar to Bragdon's. It is my belief that Bragdon's

Weathering Powders are actually pigments.



A bit of background - in the artist's world there are lots of products

that are used as 'pigments'. These are normally extremely finely ground

minerals that would be used in mixing up colors when painting in either

water or oil based painting (acrylics are water-based). They are mixed

or added to a base that is usually neutral (such as water).

The mineral that is used for any of the pigments that are any shade

of "reddish brown" (such as Burnt Sienna, etc.) is often produced by

grinding up some "iron ore". Iron ore occurs naturally in a wide

range of shades and colors that range from the typically rusty brown

color to yellows, oranges, purples, and even small areas that would be

considered blue to most observers.

My wife - who is part artist - says that when working with raw pigments

that you need to be very careful of them because they can produce results

that you don't expect - very quickly.







----------------------------

#6184 May 1, 2007

Jim,



Why on earth would anyone have used pure pigments to colour railroad ties??? The job calls for simple PAINT....or possibly, a stain.

It seems that model railroaders will do anything to avoid using paints and brushes...otherwise why all the use of dies, shoe polish, pure pigments etc? My theory is that non-professional artists are intimidated by using paint and think that all these other materials will, somehow, be easier to use.

I have news for them (and, I am a professional artist).....

Paint was invented to put colour on things. Rarely is there a better way.

You DO have to use good brushes to get decent results, and most brushes sold in department stores or hobby shops are junk. Buy brushes from an art store or from a place like Michael's that sells artist's quality materials. The secret that artists know, is that, contrary to what most people think, artists brushes are EASIER to use. It is probably experiences with bad brushes that have turned most non artists off the use of paints.



In the interests of accuracy here, I will nit-pick your description of paints: Your use of the word "pigments" is misleading. Artists paint with paints, not pigments. Pigments add the colour to these paints. What you refer to as a "Base" (something that thins it) is more properly called its "solvent". In the case of acrylics, this is water...oil paints use turpentine.



Pigments ARE an important ingredient in paint...but with one absolutely essential addition.....a binder. This is the true "base" of the paint........the substance that holds it together - kind of like a glue. Oil paints use (surprise!)...oil. Water colours use Gum Arabic. Acrylic paints use acrylic medium, which is an emulsion of acrylic droplets suspended in water. Acrylics are water soluble when wet, but, when the water dries out, they become waterproof. In fact, that is why acrylic matte medium works so well as a glue to bind ballast and other scenic materials together. It is simply paint without pigment...it is the stuff that glues paint together and makes it stick.

Deep tint base is essentially the same stuff for acrylic house paints.

Pigments by themselves don't have any means of sticking or remaining stable. They are only a powder, after all.

Which is why the pigments in the ties on that layout migrated into the ballast.



Another thing about pigments: a lot of them are toxic. As a pigment powder, they are very easy to inhale. The upshot here is that only people making their own paints should be using pigments. If you want to colour something, use paint. (colouring plaster with pigments as it is mixed is an exception - this is kind of like making paint. The plaster binds it)



Your ballast is probably ruined. It could, perhaps, be painted after the ballast has been glued but it would be easier to start over.



Bragdon Powders are NOT pure pigments. Their literature talks about the binder contained in them that is activated by brushing the powders. They then stay put, unlike regular chalks, and, since they are bound, they don't require a coat of some clear finish to seal them in.

I use these regularly for weathering requiring soft blending and find them easier to use than airbrushed paints, which could, after all, do the same thing. This is one of those rare instances I mentioned earlier where paints are not my first choice. But, for an initial painting of railroad ties, they are absolutely the wrong choice. They would be okay for a subtle "dirtying up" of the space between the ties, after ballasting, to simulate oil dripped over the tracks by various passing vehicles, as on paved roads.

Chalks are closer to pure pigment...not much binder in the sticks. That's why they tend to fall off any surface they're applied to. (Unless a spray fixative is applied -which is simply adding a binder after the fact.)

And dyes....which are used in half the formulas that modellers use to colour and stain things...are not permanent. Dyes include the ever popular shoe dyes, clothing dyes such as RITZ, and any marking pens. As well, ground foam scenic products are usually dyed rather than painted. (I'm guessing that the same goes for using tea or coffee for colouring...but here, I don't know first hand)

Most layout scenery fading is due to the use of dyes.



Pigments CAN fade too. Read the lightfastness info on the labels. Artists paints are usually the best here. House paint, especially exterior grade is often surprisingly good. After all, the good brands last for years outdoors, under that ultimate source of fading - the sun.



Didn't mean to ramble on here...but I wanted to set some facts straight.



Lance













Jim Betz jimbetz@...> wrote:

I believe that the Bragdon's products are actually 'true pigment'. If

they aren't then this post should be read as being about similar products

to the Bragdon's ... but that are pigments. I have used straight pigments

and my recommendation is that you 'go slowly until you figure out how to

use them.

Handling pigments is very different than when you are using chalks.

Specifically they will get on - and stain - areas you may not want stained.

And if you get them on your fingers they will leave fingerprints that are

very difficult to remove. Chalks, on the other hand, can just be washed

off and you can start over.



I'm not saying "don't use weathering products that are pure pigment".

I'm saying ... be very careful with them because somoe of the long term

effects may be a surprise to you.



A case in point to make this easier to understand. A layout I volunteer

on used pigment to stain and color real wood ties to a nice deep brown

color for the hand-layed track to be layed over them.

Then a couple of years later (its a -large- layout) we got around to doing

the ballast in that area. The 50-50 water+alcohol we were using to wet

the area prior to gluing down the ballast 'leached' the pigment out of the

ties ... and stained all the ballast a light brown. Definitely not the

'some color of gray' that the owner wanted for the mainline. OK, you say.

But the thing is that the -pigment- has permanently changed the color of

the ballast in that area and so we are faced with re-coloring the ballast.

Ie. we have to figure out what color product we can use that will go on

over the pigment and actually cover it. The best way to describe what

this area looked like after the pigment leached out is to think of 'rust

pools' or 'waves of color on a shore' where the color is irregularly

regular and definitely not what you might see as the color of the track

and ties and ballast on any RR any of us have ever seen.

If the color on the ties had been done with anything except pigment

it would have been less likely to leach out ... and would not be as

difficult to cover.

I'm not certain this was Bragdon's ... but if it wasn't then it was a

product that is very similar to Bragdon's. It is my belief that Bragdon's

Weathering Powders are actually pigments.



A bit of background - in the artist's world there are lots of products

that are used as 'pigments'. These are normally extremely finely ground

minerals that would be used in mixing up colors when painting in either

water or oil based painting (acrylics are water-based). They are mixed

or added to a base that is usually neutral (such as water).

The mineral that is used for any of the pigments that are any shade

of "reddish brown" (such as Burnt Sienna, etc.) is often produced by

grinding up some "iron ore". Iron ore occurs naturally in a wide

range of shades and colors that range from the typically rusty brown

color to yellows, oranges, purples, and even small areas that would be

considered blue to most observers.

My wife - who is part artist - says that when working with raw pigments

that you need to be very careful of them because they can produce results

that you don't expect - very quickly.













Lance Russwurm



www.lancerusswurm.com



ca.geocities.com/stjacobsrr@.../





---------------

Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?

Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#9671 Jan 20, 2010

Hi,



I'm in the "other camp".



I tried Bragdon and gave up on it. I just don't seem to be

able to control them. Most (all?) of Bragdon's powders are

"pure pigment" that results in both permanent effects and in

some changes that are 'unexpected' (at least to me). They

bond with (chemically?) the paint in ways that give me fits.



I find that when I use artist's chalks - often in a wet

slurry that includes a few drops of white glue rather than

dry - that I get controllable results. And if I don't like

it I can always wash them off and start over. And yes I use

them dry and over spray with dull cote to see the actual/final

result. Over time I've learned to predict the 'changes' that

will happen during the overspray. And that change is -greatly-

reduced if the chalks are applied wet. I rarely use just one

shade of chalk and prefer to scrape several colors into a

margarine tub and mix them to whatever shade strikes me at

the time.

As I've said before - the other thing that I find I'm doing

more and more is using washes. Primarily those are acrylics

but there are certain effects that seem to be easier using

lacquer washes (such as "running a very thin line of rust

into the corners" where the ribs meet the body). If I'm

using an acrylic wash I have even been known to "take it to

the sink and wash off most/all of it" before it is dry - if

I don't like the result. Sometimes (often?) I just keep

whatever is left over after this washing off exercise as

the final effect. One nice thing about using washes is that

you can creep up on a final effect by using very thin washes

and adding a second or third or even a fourth layer - letting

each earlier layer dry fully to see what you really have before

you go on.



I rarely do a car these days that I don't do some work

using a brush ... "dry brushing" in order to highlight

the details. It is amazing how subtle a slight change in

the color of a grab or handrail or rib or hinge will make those

details 'pop off of the background field (main body)'. So I

make them just oh so slightly more noticeable by shifting

the color to something a couple of shades different from the

same color as the body. Or sometimes using a rust or grimey

black shade. My choice of which color to use this time is

very spontaneous - the result is that my freight cars tend to

'separate' from each other when studied for details but blend

when looked at as a 'collection of cars' in a train or in a yard.



I always consider my weathering jobs to be "incomplete"

until I have done final passes of dullcote (or other similar

product) and a very light "blending coat" of a "weathered

black" or similar earth tones of a variety of shades ranging

from some shade of charcoal to some shade of light brown/grey.

I will sometimes take this blending coat to the level of a

'noticeable layer of dirt/soot' but I let that happen "as

the moment hits me". Sometimes I do the blending coat first

and sometimes the dull - doesn't seem to matter that much.



I am -not- a practitioner of the "totally rusted out/in

the last few minutes of their life" freight cars. Nor do I

put graffiti on my trains. I model "the transition era in

HO scale" and the photos I've studied tell me that the

equipment should be "any where from quite new to well used" -

but rarely in the "falling apart rust bucket" category.

- Jim



P.S. I would post photos of what I'm talking about but I have

yet to be successful in figuring out how to get a photo

of a weathering job that looks (to me) on the screen as

what it looks like on the car in 'normal' layout light.

At least my pics never satisfy me - they all seem to either

emphasize something that is hardly noticeable with the

naked eye ... or the effects are 'gone'. I probably

should study how to light my models more before I take

the pics. What - you mean that just using the on camera

flash isn't adequate? *G*



----------------------------

#9672 Jan 20, 2010

Jim...I suggest that you take your weathered models outside in naturel sunlight and take digital pictures. Then have a look to see if your pleased. Remember that the camera is going to show much more detail than what you see with your eyes , because your screen picture is that much larger. I often see things in the pictures that barely show up to the naked eye.

As far as using flash, forget it just whitens stuff up.



Show us the pictures , let us have a look. !!!!!

mike



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" jimbetz@...> wrote:

>

> Hi,

>

> I'm in the "other camp".

>

> I tried Bragdon and gave up on it. I just don't seem to be

> able to control them. Most (all?) of Bragdon's powders are

> "pure pigment" that results in both permanent effects and in

> some changes that are 'unexpected' (at least to me). They

> bond with (chemically?) the paint in ways that give me fits.

>

> I find that when I use artist's chalks - often in a wet

> slurry that includes a few drops of white glue rather than

> dry - that I get controllable results. And if I don't like

> it I can always wash them off and start over. And yes I use

> them dry and over spray with dull cote to see the actual/final

> result. Over time I've learned to predict the 'changes' that

> will happen during the overspray. And that change is -greatly-

> reduced if the chalks are applied wet. I rarely use just one

> shade of chalk and prefer to scrape several colors into a

> margarine tub and mix them to whatever shade strikes me at

> the time.

> As I've said before - the other thing that I find I'm doing

> more and more is using washes. Primarily those are acrylics

> but there are certain effects that seem to be easier using

> lacquer washes (such as "running a very thin line of rust

> into the corners" where the ribs meet the body). If I'm

> using an acrylic wash I have even been known to "take it to

> the sink and wash off most/all of it" before it is dry - if

> I don't like the result. Sometimes (often?) I just keep

> whatever is left over after this washing off exercise as

> the final effect. One nice thing about using washes is that

> you can creep up on a final effect by using very thin washes

> and adding a second or third or even a fourth layer - letting

> each earlier layer dry fully to see what you really have before

> you go on.

>

> I rarely do a car these days that I don't do some work

> using a brush ... "dry brushing" in order to highlight

> the details. It is amazing how subtle a slight change in

> the color of a grab or handrail or rib or hinge will make those

> details 'pop off of the background field (main body)'. So I

> make them just oh so slightly more noticeable by shifting

> the color to something a couple of shades different from the

> same color as the body. Or sometimes using a rust or grimey

> black shade. My choice of which color to use this time is

> very spontaneous - the result is that my freight cars tend to

> 'separate' from each other when studied for details but blend

> when looked at as a 'collection of cars' in a train or in a yard.

>

> I always consider my weathering jobs to be "incomplete"

> until I have done final passes of dullcote (or other similar

> product) and a very light "blending coat" of a "weathered

> black" or similar earth tones of a variety of shades ranging

> from some shade of charcoal to some shade of light brown/grey.

> I will sometimes take this blending coat to the level of a

> 'noticeable layer of dirt/soot' but I let that happen "as

> the moment hits me". Sometimes I do the blending coat first

> and sometimes the dull - doesn't seem to matter that much.

>

> I am -not- a practitioner of the "totally rusted out/in

> the last few minutes of their life" freight cars. Nor do I

> put graffiti on my trains. I model "the transition era in

> HO scale" and the photos I've studied tell me that the

> equipment should be "any where from quite new to well used" -

> but rarely in the "falling apart rust bucket" category.

> - Jim

>

> P.S. I would post photos of what I'm talking about but I have

> yet to be successful in figuring out how to get a photo

> of a weathering job that looks (to me) on the screen as

> what it looks like on the car in 'normal' layout light.

> At least my pics never satisfy me - they all seem to either

> emphasize something that is hardly noticeable with the

> naked eye ... or the effects are 'gone'. I probably

> should study how to light my models more before I take

> the pics. What - you mean that just using the on camera

> flash isn't adequate? *G*

>







----------------------------

#9673 Jan 20, 2010

Mad Mike,



I'm in San Jose. We're experiencing a spate of "liquid

sunshine" that is predicted to last thru the weekend. So

it will be several days before I will risk my camera to the

real world. Even one of the major freeways thru San Jose

was shut down today for flooding ... so this sort of

qualifies for "heavy water". Today when I was driving on

280 between 880 and 101 there were two accidents on the

side of the road (that's about 3 miles of freeway). Of

course we "Cal-ies" are not 'used' to poor weather so even

a light rain produces accidents.

So if you can drown in a tablespoon of water why didn't

that Nissan I saw in the parking lot today with water up

to and above the bottom of the doors - pass over?



Wishing I had a deck railing with a snowed in Aspen forest

behind it for a background for my pics ...



- "drowning" in Cowafornicatia ... Jumpin' (puddles) Jim



P.S. Yes, the sun actually did come out for about 20 minutes

today. Just one more day in the "days of sunshine" stats.

The rain didn't stop however. The rainbow was "awesome".

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "madmike3434" madmike3434@...> wrote:

>

> Jim...I suggest that you take your weathered models outside in naturel sunlight and take digital pictures. Then have a look to see if your pleased. Remember that the camera is going to show much more detail than what you see with your eyes , because your screen picture is that much larger. I often see things in the pictures that barely show up to the naked eye.

> As far as using flash, forget it just whitens stuff up.

>

> Show us the pictures , let us have a look. !!!!!

>



----------------------------

#9930 Apr 2, 2010

After reading many posts extolling the virtues of Bragdon weathering powder, I used the product to weather 5 NG railcars and was very pleased with the results.



The instructions say that models that will be handled "considerably" may need a spray coat of flat artist's fixitive. So, I figured that to be on the safe side, I would protect my work, and used Kryl*n Matte Finish. The result - most of the weathering disappeared, just like with my past experience with pastel chalk!



Questions:



1. Guess typical handling of rolling stock is not 'considerably' and does not need the fixitive?



2. Can I go back and re-weather over the fixitive?



Thanks in advance for your advice.



Ted McCormack

Midlothian, VA



----------------------------

#9931 Apr 2, 2010

Ted,



If your powders ever wear off then you can add some more.



And you can add them over the fixative quite nicely.



Probably better as the fixative has a little more "tooth" to it.



Darryl Huffman

12020 Old Seward Highway

Anchorage, AK 99515-3504

dlhuffman@...



Interested in weathering? Check out my DVD:

www.darrylhuffman.50megs.com/custom3.html



----- Original Message -----

From: "tedmac23113" tcmccormack@...>

To: weathering@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 4:04 AM

Subject: [weathering] Bragdon Weathering Powders





> After reading many posts extolling the virtues of Bragdon weathering

> powder, I used the product to weather 5 NG railcars and was very pleased

> with the results.

>

> The instructions say that models that will be handled "considerably" may

> need a spray coat of flat artist's fixitive. So, I figured that to be on

> the safe side, I would protect my work, and used Kryl*n Matte Finish. The

> result - most of the weathering disappeared, just like with my past

> experience with pastel chalk!



----------------------------

#9932 Apr 2, 2010

I usually spray the surface with Dullcoat before I use the powders.�� It really helps to control where they go.�� Also, I use Dr. Ben's powders instead.�� They are easier to apply, stick better and have a more broad color assortment.

Scott G. Perry, CPM



----------------------------

#9933 Apr 2, 2010

Btw...Dr. Ben's has just issued a new book on how to weather with pigments.�� Got my copy last week...very well done!��www.debenllc.com/servlet/the-3512/*Doctor-Ben%27s-%22How-dsh-To-%233-cln-/Detail

Scott G. Perry, CPM



----------------------------

#9945 Apr 4, 2010

Are we sure Krylon is okay? If you said fixative to me, I would think

first of the sprays used by pastel artists, which I believe are

different.



Mike

On 02/04/2010, scottgperry@... scottgperry@...> wrote:

>

>

> Btw...Dr. Ben's has just issued a new book on how to weather with pigments.

> Got my copy last week...very well done!

>

>

>

> www.debenllc.com/servlet/the-3512/*Doctor-Ben%27s-%22How-dsh-To-%233-cln-/Detail

>

>

>

>

>

> Scott G. Perry, CPM

>

>

>

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "tedmac23113" tcmccormack@...>

> To: weathering@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Friday, April 2, 2010 8:04:19 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern

> Subject: [weathering] Bragdon Weathering Powders

>

>

>

>

>

>

> After reading many posts extolling the virtues of Bragdon weathering powder,

> I used the product to weather 5 NG railcars and was very pleased with the

> results.

>

> The instructions say that models that will be handled "considerably" may

> need a spray coat of flat artist's fixitive. So, I figured that to be on the

> safe side, I would protect my work, and used Kryl*n Matte Finish. The result

> - most of the weathering disappeared, just like with my past experience with

> pastel chalk!

>

> Questions:

>

> 1. Guess typical handling of rolling stock is not 'considerably' and does

> not need the fixitive?

>

> 2. Can I go back and re-weather over the fixitive?

>

> Thanks in advance for your advice.

>

> Ted McCormack

> Midlothian, VA

>

>

>







----------------------------

#9946 Apr 5, 2010

The can says for use on displays, crafts, tole painting, watercolors, charcoal, pencil, painted surfaces and for substrates wood, metal, plastic, paper mache, glass, plaster, ceramics, paper, wicker, dried/silk flowers, etc.



I guess that covers most of what model railroaders work in/on.



Ted

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, Mike Siggins msiggins@...> wrote:

>

> Are we sure Krylon is okay? If you said fixative to me, I would think

> first of the sprays used by pastel artists, which I believe are

> different.

>

> Mike



----------------------------

#9947 Apr 5, 2010

I don't see pastel in that list!.No, seriously, should be fine if it does charcoal. I use this..www.artandgold.co.uk/epages/es110577.sf/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es110577_es12064536172/Products/3033913&ViewAction=ViewProductViaPortal&Locale=en_GB



On 5 April 2010 22:29, tedmac23113 tcmccormack@...> wrote:.The can says for use on displays, crafts, tole painting, watercolors, charcoal, pencil, painted surfaces and for substrates wood, metal, plastic, paper mache, glass, plaster, ceramics, paper, wicker, dried/silk flowers, etc.

I guess that covers most of what model railroaders work in/on.

Ted

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, Mike Siggins msiggins@...> wrote:>> Are we sure Krylon is okay? If you said fixative to me, I would think

> first of the sprays used by pastel artists, which I believe are> different.> > Mike



----------------------------

#9948 Apr 6, 2010

Hi,



No one seems to have mentioned this so I'll chime in ...



The thing to remember/consider about products such as the

Bragdon powders is that they are essentially "pigments". As

such they are "permanent".

I have used Bragdon (and other pigments). I found them

very good in terms of the effects ... but a bit messy (they

tend to stain anything they touch/get on) and if you over do

it you have very few options for "going back".



I use the wet chalk "slurry" I've mentioned before much

more frequently than any pigment. Especially for rolling

stock and structures. When combined with acrylic washes I

find I have better control of the final result - and if you

want to remove the chalk I'll admit it doesn't all come off

after it has dried ... but certainly a lot more of it comes

off (without abrasives, just soak and soft brush) than any

kind of pigment.



As always - your methods may vary, this works for me.

- Jim



----------------------------

#9949 Apr 6, 2010

I asked a professional artist about this, and he said there are fixative sprays that do not make the powder effects disappear, even if ground chalk is used. They usually say so specifically on the label. I'm sorry I don't remember the brand he uses, but I couldn't find it at a craft store at the time. I think you need to go to an art supply store. Krylon is definitely not suitable.



-Michael Eldridge

-San Jose, CA



> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: "tedmac23113" tcmccormack@...>

> > To: weathering@yahoogroups.com

> > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2010 8:04:19 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern

> > Subject: [weathering] Bragdon Weathering Powders

> >



> > After reading many posts extolling the virtues of Bragdon weathering powder,

> > I used the product to weather 5 NG railcars and was very pleased with the

> > results.

> >

> > The instructions say that models that will be handled "considerably" may

> > need a spray coat of flat artist's fixitive. So, I figured that to be on the

> > safe side, I would protect my work, and used Kryl*n Matte Finish. The result

> > - most of the weathering disappeared, just like with my past experience with

> > pastel chalk!

> >

> > Questions:

> >

> > 1. Guess typical handling of rolling stock is not 'considerably' and does

> > not need the fixitive?

> >

> > 2. Can I go back and re-weather over the fixitive?

> >

> > Thanks in advance for your advice.

> >

> > Ted McCormack

> > Midlothian, VA



----------------------------

#9950 Apr 6, 2010

This is essentially my point.

Thanks

Mike

On 6 April 2010 18:45, Michael meldridge@...> wrote:

.I asked a professional artist about this, and he said there are fixative sprays that do not make the powder effects disappear, even if ground chalk is used. They usually say so specifically on the label. I'm sorry I don't remember the brand he uses, but I couldn't find it at a craft store at the time. I think you need to go to an art supply store. Krylon is definitely not suitable.

-Michael Eldridge

-San Jose, CA



> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: "tedmac23113" tcmccormack@...>

> > To: weathering@yahoogroups.com

> > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2010 8:04:19 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern

> > Subject: [weathering] Bragdon Weathering Powders

> >



> > After reading many posts extolling the virtues of Bragdon weathering powder,

> > I used the product to weather 5 NG railcars and was very pleased with the

> > results.

> >

> > The instructions say that models that will be handled "considerably" may

> > need a spray coat of flat artist's fixitive. So, I figured that to be on the

> > safe side, I would protect my work, and used Kryl*n Matte Finish. The result

> > - most of the weathering disappeared, just like with my past experience with

> > pastel chalk!

> >

> > Questions:

> >

> > 1. Guess typical handling of rolling stock is not 'considerably' and does

> > not need the fixitive?

> >

> > 2. Can I go back and re-weather over the fixitive?

> >

> > Thanks in advance for your advice.

> >

> > Ted McCormack

> > Midlothian, VA







----------------------------

#9951 Apr 6, 2010

Jim, I get carried away all the time with Bragdon's powders. I just go after the overdo with a golf pencil with an erasure on the end. The overdo gets fixed. I doubt I could completely remove all the powder but I can get most of it. ...Tom

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, Jim Betz jimbetz@...> wrote:

>

> Hi,

>

> No one seems to have mentioned this so I'll chime in ...

>

> The thing to remember/consider about products such as the

> Bragdon powders is that they are essentially "pigments". As

> such they are "permanent".

> I have used Bragdon (and other pigments). I found them

> very good in terms of the effects ... but a bit messy (they

> tend to stain anything they touch/get on) and if you over do

> it you have very few options for "going back".

>

> I use the wet chalk "slurry" I've mentioned before much

> more frequently than any pigment. Especially for rolling

> stock and structures. When combined with acrylic washes I

> find I have better control of the final result - and if you

> want to remove the chalk I'll admit it doesn't all come off

> after it has dried ... but certainly a lot more of it comes

> off (without abrasives, just soak and soft brush) than any

> kind of pigment.

>

> As always - your methods may vary, this works for me.

> - Jim

>



----------------------------

#9952 Apr 7, 2010

Ah, my first mistake. Buying from a craft store. Like you, I will be visiting my local art supply store soon.



Ted McCormack

Midlothian, VA

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" meldridge@...> wrote:

>

> I asked a professional artist about this, and he said there are fixative sprays that do not make the powder effects disappear, even if ground chalk is used. They usually say so specifically on the label. I'm sorry I don't remember the brand he uses, but I couldn't find it at a craft store at the time. I think you need to go to an art supply store. Krylon is definitely not suitable.

>

> -Michael Eldridge

> -San Jose, CA



----------------------------

#9953 Apr 7, 2010

I live in the Denver area and have seen 'fixatif' available at a localMichael's store.�� I was pleased to see the depth and breadth of the artsupplies they stock.��Keevan��In a message dated 4/7/2010 10:17:18 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,tcmccormack@... writes:Ah, myfirst mistake. Buying from a craft store. Like you, I will be visiting mylocal art supply store soon.

Ted McCormackMidlothian, VA

---In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" meldridge@...>wrote:>> I asked a professional artist about this, and he saidthere are fixative sprays that do not make the powder effects disappear, evenif ground chalk is used. They usually say so specifically on the label. I'msorry I don't remember the brand he uses, but I couldn't find it at a craftstore at the time. I think you need to go to an art supply store. Krylon isdefinitely not suitable.> > -Michael Eldridge> -San Jose,CA



----------------------------

#9955 Apr 12, 2010

Ted,

I use a 50/50 mix of Testers Dulcoat from the bottle and lacquer thinner, shot though an airbrush. If you don't have an airbrush, Dulcoat the rattle can will do as a last resort.

A light coat should be enough.

If you don't fix the powders and try to apply more powder you may find some finger prints show up. What you are doing is like the cops when they come in and dust for prints.

Do it right the first time and you won't have to go back and redo it.

Ralph

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "tedmac23113" tcmccormack@...> wrote:

>

> After reading many posts extolling the virtues of Bragdon weathering powder, I used the product to weather 5 NG railcars and was very pleased with the results.

>

> The instructions say that models that will be handled "considerably" may need a spray coat of flat artist's fixitive. So, I figured that to be on the safe side, I would protect my work, and used Kryl*n Matte Finish. The result - most of the weathering disappeared, just like with my past experience with pastel chalk!

>

> Questions:

>

> 1. Guess typical handling of rolling stock is not 'considerably' and does not need the fixitive?

>

> 2. Can I go back and re-weather over the fixitive?

>

> Thanks in advance for your advice.

>

> Ted McCormack

> Midlothian, VA

>



----------------------------

#9956 Apr 13, 2010

Ted,

In the Doctor Ben's "How-To #3: Weathering & Painting Using Pigments" 8-page color booklet we simplify this process of sealing the weathering by applying a quick spritz of "pump" hair spray (non-scented)to the weathering. I have used and recommended this technique for many years now. It is my understanding that several of the folks selling weathered rolling stock on ebay are also using this technique. Give it a try, maybe it will work for you too.



Later, Ben

www.DrBens.com

---------------

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "tedmac23113" tcmccormack@...> wrote:

>

> After reading many posts extolling the virtues of Bragdon weathering powder, I used the product to weather 5 NG railcars and was very pleased with the results.

>

> The instructions say that models that will be handled "considerably" may need a spray coat of flat artist's fixitive. So, I figured that to be on the safe side, I would protect my work, and used Kryl*n Matte Finish. The result - most of the weathering disappeared, just like with my past experience with pastel chalk!







----------------------------

#9960 Apr 14, 2010

Thanks for all the replies and advice; I have never been disappointed when I post to this group.



I have purchased a can of spray fixitive for pastels from my local craft store and will try the unscented pump hair spray also.



Experimentation is the name of the game.



Ted

--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "Ben" yahoo.groups.for@...> wrote:

>

> Ted,

> In the Doctor Ben's "How-To #3: Weathering & Painting Using Pigments" 8-page color booklet we simplify this process of sealing the weathering by applying a quick spritz of "pump" hair spray (non-scented)to the weathering. I have used and recommended this technique for many years now. It is my understanding that several of the folks selling weathered rolling stock on ebay are also using this technique. Give it a try, maybe it will work for you too.

>

> Later, Ben

> www.DrBens.com

---------------



----------------------------

#9961 Apr 14, 2010

dear Group��In the last couple of weeks I have beenexperimenting with methods of removing lettering from Bachman On30 cars plusweathering them. ��For the weathering/ageing I choose to use artistpastel pencils and Bragdon���� Weathering powders. In the past I haveused these on structures with good results. I find when you switch to followingstock the story is different. Cars get handled more than structures and theweathering gets negatively ��affected by handling.So I sprayed the cars withdullcote-- it wipes out most of the weathering. I tried Windsor and Newtonpastel and charcoal fixative on the cars and the result is still disappointing.IMHO the pastels hold up better than the powders. I will try the hair spraytechnique in hopes of improvement.��Colin Claxon----- Original Switch to: Text-Only,DailyDigest . Unsubscribe. Terms of Use



----------------------------

#9962 Apr 14, 2010

You are right...test first!



I have used Treseme hairspray as an undercoat for paint chipping as per the military modellers "hairspray technique". It dries with a pretty glossy sheen. I haven't tried it as an overcoat, so hopefully there are duller brands out there.







--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "tedmac23113" tcmccormack@...> wrote:

>

> Thanks for all the replies and advice; I have never been disappointed when I post to this group.

>

> I have purchased a can of spray fixitive for pastels from my local craft store and will try the unscented pump hair spray also.

>

> Experimentation is the name of the game.

>

> Ted

>

> --- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "Ben" yahoo.groups.for@> wrote:

> >

> > Ted,

> > In the Doctor Ben's "How-To #3: Weathering & Painting Using Pigments" 8-page color booklet we simplify this process of sealing the weathering by applying a quick spritz of "pump" hair spray (non-scented)to the weathering. I have used and recommended this technique for many years now. It is my understanding that several of the folks selling weathered rolling stock on ebay are also using this technique. Give it a try, maybe it will work for you too.

> >

> > Later, Ben

> > www.DrBens.com

---------------

>



----------------------------

#10029 Apr 22, 2010

Although unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to use any of Ben's powders, I swear by the use of almost any powder. I feel it brings a new dimension and sense of realism to any model.



I put together a clinic on weathering powders I uploaded the handout you can download it here...

groups.yahoo.com/group/weathering/files/Jimmy%20Simmons/



The title of the clinic is:

Introduction to Weathering Powders

Simple Ways to Add Realism to Your Models

Plus - Create Realistic Metal Effects, Galvanized Metal & Rust Techniques



I will be giving this clinic again in September at the San Diego NMRA PSR show.



Ben, I will add your product and information to the others as part of the handout for all future clinics. I have heard good things about them.



Jimmy



----------------------------

#11033 Jun 2 8:04 AM

Has any one had experience with both Bragdon and Doc O'Brien's weathering chalks? If so, which did you prefer, and why? Thank you.



Pete Nelson



----------------------------

#11034 Jun 2 8:30 AM

I've been using Bragdon's for several years now and am quite satisfied withhow it works.�� Not experienced with the other, no motivation to,��socan't comment.��Bragdon's contains a micro-adhesive that is activated upon rubbing it onand adheres very well.�� I don't use any overspray afterwards as it sticksquite well without it.�� Even with the handling of rolling stock.��Before I came upon Bragdon's I was using ladies eye shadow and thelike.�� Before that, used atrists' chalks.��Keevan��In a message dated 6/2/2011 9:04:30 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,pnelson01@... writes:Has anyone had experience with both Bragdon and Doc O'Brien's weathering chalks? Ifso, which did you prefer, and why? Thank you.

PeteNelson



----------------------------

#11035 Jun 2 11:03 AM

I've used all three....Dr. Ben's work better, has better service and more colors.��www.debenllc.com/servlet/the-Doctor-Ben%27s-Scale-Consortium-cln--dsh--Weathering-Pigments/Categories



��Scott G. Perry, CPMUtah Society of Railroad ModelersNMRA Rocky Mtn Region DirectorEditor, RMR CallboardNMRA #110470



----------------------------

#11036 Jun 3 6:21 AM

How well does the Dr. Bens hold up to handling? Do you have to overspray with clear flat to fix it?



Mike Conder



scott perry@... wrote: >

> I've used all three....Dr. Ben's work better, has better service and more colors.







----------------------------

#11038 Jun 3 9:23 AM

Hi,



I've used Dr. Ben's and Bragdon's but not Doc O'Briens.

Neither of the ones I've used are "chalks". They are

weathering powders. As in "pigments". They work well.

But they are permanent - they 'bond' with the surface

in ways that "chalks" don't.

One place I do -not- like these pigments is "any where

around the track" ... such as for coloring ballast on

the side of the right-of-way. The color goes on 'wrong'

and looks like 'stains' rather than 'weathering'. And

the way they discolor the ties is "all wrong" (to my eye).

I do like them on structures or rolling stock - but

you have to KNOW ahead how it will come out ... due to

the 'permanent' nature of them. I ruined 3 or 4 models

before I figured it out to a point where I can use them

effectively. Start with an old shake the box kit!

The 'trick' - as in all weathering - is to start small

(slight effect) and work up to the level you want.



I have been using "artist's chalks" (brand name is/was

Alphacolor) for a couple of decades or more. A friend of

mine and I bought a box each of the greys (white to black

and about 10 colors in between) and the "earth tones". We

took the two boxes of sticks of chalk and broke the sticks

in half and each of us ended up with a single box of both

color sets but half a stick of each color.

And if the chalks don't look right you can literally

"wash them off and start over" with very little residue.

Most of the time now I use chalks in a "wet slurry". I

mix several colors to a blend/shade/color that I want (dry),

add water and a few drops of white glue (Krystal Klear) as

a binder ... keep stirring and letting it sit until the

slurry is consistent and there are very few clumps of

chalk left (or none depending upon need), apply with an

eye dropper, let dry (at least a couple of hours, usually

more) - and repeat as necessary.

Chalks are an excellent way to get those 'detritus'

effects for the roofs of freight cars or in the bed of

a gon.

Another 'trick' with chalks is to actually "go for" the

clumps in the slurry ... and then after they are dry to

use your finger to 'draw' the clumps in the direction you

want a 'stain' (such as towards the edge of the roof).

Or a small clump on the side of a box car that when 'drawn'

with your finger makes a great representation of a rust

stain that is 'weeping' color from a 'blow out'.



I use acrylic washes almost always in any situation where

I might consider some of these 'pigments'. On most of

my structures/rolling stock I end up with a combination

of chalks plus acrylic washes. If I eliminate either of

those it will be the chalks.



I also use lacquer washes - they produce an entirely

different effect. Thin to a -very- thin level and apply

with a brush and it will 'flow' into the corners where

two surfaces meet in ways that acrylic washes won't.

This technique is especially useful for getting that

"hint of rust starting to form" look on dark colors

such as black or charcoal.

- Jim



P.S. I started out to just respond to the subject

question ... but this turned into a "book" ...



----------------------------

#11039 Jun 3 12:48 PM

For some reason it bonds much better than the others.�� Still all of them come off with some kind of friction, but I have some freight cars that have heavy handling with no clear coat and they are fine.

��Scott G. Perry, CPMUtah Society of Railroad ModelersNMRA Rocky Mtn Region DirectorEditor, RMR CallboardNMRA #110470



----------------------------

#11040 Jun 4 6:37 AM

Thanks to everyone for a most interesting discussion.



As a side note on chalks/pastels, I use wallboard sanding screen to reduce these to 'chalkdust', in fact I have a spice jar where I've replaced the transparent lid insert with a piece of wallboard screen. Rub the pastel over the screen and the dust collects in the jar :-)



dave



----------------------------

#11067 Jun 7 10:30 AM

Hi Jim,



Thanks for the reply. I really liked your weathering techniques and can't wait to try some of them. I remember 45 years ago I weathered a Camino On3 gon with powdered chalk and then I rubbed cigar ask onto the sides. Very effective. Again, thanks.



Pete



----------------------------

#12175 May 1, 2013

First, many thanks to all who have responded. I appreciate it.



On my own layout there is little reason to seal weathering powders on rolling stock as I am careful in handling finished models. However, the rolling stock I take to module set-ups receives a lot of handling.



This was the reason for my original post on this topic.



I contacted Joel Bragdon to seek his advice as it applies to his line of weathering powders.



Below is his response.



Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

+++

The best method is to apply the powders to a very matte or 'flat' finish with a moderately stiff, brush. A little burnishing will activate the pressure sensitive adhesive. This adhesive, is built into our product and responds to a bit of pressure. Any heavy over-spray, is going to turn the powder into "pigment", which will combine with the liquid spray. The result will not be the same. Sometimes, a light over-spray (or under-spray), is advisable. Best are from artist's supply stores and not Dulcote. Very "flat" finish sprays can be found in these outlets.



Joel Bragdon



--- In weathering@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Chaparro" thecitrusbelt@...> wrote:

>

> Does anyone have a preferred spray for sealing weathering powders?

>

> I've used Testor's Dullcoat but find I lose some of the weathering achieved by the powders.

>

> Thank you.

>

> Bob Chaparro

> Hemet, CA

>







----------------------------

#12176 May 1, 2013

Bob,



Always best to go to the source. Seems Joel echoed some comment here.



Well off to the art store.



Ed S



>+++

>The best method is to apply the powders to a very matte or 'flat'

>finish with a moderately stiff, brush. A little burnishing will

>activate the pressure sensitive adhesive. This adhesive, is built

>into our product and responds to a bit of pressure. Any heavy

>over-spray, is going to turn the powder into "pigment", which will

>combine with the liquid spray. The result will not be the same.

>Sometimes, a light over-spray (or under-spray), is advisable. Best

>are from artist's supply stores and not Dulcote. Very "flat" finish

>sprays can be found in these outlets.

>

>Joel Bragdon



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