Re: SD vs HD picture through converters


Oct 12, 2008

 


----------------------------

#90 Oct 12, 2008

My local FOX affiliate is broadcasting two feeds of the same channel

on 26-1 and 26-2. The 26-1 is an SD feed, while the 26-2 is an HD

feed. I've set up my converter options so I don't have to see the

black bars on the top and bottom of the screen on the HD feed through

my analog TV. Both SD and HD display about the same amount of

picture. But I've noticed something very peculiar between the two.

The colors on the HD picture are relatively washed out as compared to

the SD picture. It's as if someone turned the color and tint way

down. The colors on the SD feed, however, are sharp and vibrant.



But then, the audio on the HD feed has a lot more punch--both in

volume and bass/treble, compared to the SD which is quieter and flat,

perhaps even mono. I have no way of telling.



So I'm torn between having a nice sharp, vibrant colored picture,

with flat audio on the SD feed, or having punchy audio but a very

flat colored picture on the HD feed. I even tried bringing up the

color and tint on my TV with the HD feed, but I can't quite get it to

match the SD picture. And then my picture is all screwed up when I

go back to my analog channels.



So......anybody know what might be causing this? Are other people

seeing this? Is it just a tweak they need to do at the station?



Rob



----------------------------

#91 Oct 12, 2008

--- In TV_Antennas@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Williams" will7370@...>

wrote: >

> My local FOX affiliate is broadcasting two feeds of the same

channel > on 26-1 and 26-2. The 26-1 is an SD feed, while the 26-2 is an HD

> feed. I've set up my converter options so I don't have to see the

> black bars on the top and bottom of the screen on the HD feed

through > my analog TV. Both SD and HD display about the same amount of

> picture. But I've noticed something very peculiar between the

two. > The colors on the HD picture are relatively washed out as compared

to > the SD picture. It's as if someone turned the color and tint way

> down. The colors on the SD feed, however, are sharp and vibrant.

>

> But then, the audio on the HD feed has a lot more punch--both in

> volume and bass/treble, compared to the SD which is quieter and

flat, > perhaps even mono. I have no way of telling.

>

> So I'm torn between having a nice sharp, vibrant colored picture,

> with flat audio on the SD feed, or having punchy audio but a very

> flat colored picture on the HD feed. I even tried bringing up the

> color and tint on my TV with the HD feed, but I can't quite get it

to > match the SD picture. And then my picture is all screwed up when I

> go back to my analog channels.

>

> So......anybody know what might be causing this? Are other people

> seeing this? Is it just a tweak they need to do at the station?

>

> Rob

>

Probably not the station, but the box. The convertor has to

mathematically subtract information from a HD transmission to fit the

parameters of a standard definition display. But, the audio doesn't

need work. Generally recivers with built in ATSC tuners do alright,

but the convertor boxes have mostly been designed to minimum

performance. The convertor boxes are really just for temporary use,

to allow viewers to watch television until real DTV sets are obtained.

There may well be more going on here than what I wrote, though.



----------------------------

#92 Oct 12, 2008

Robert Williams wrote:

> My local FOX affiliate is broadcasting two feeds of the same channel

> on 26-1 and 26-2. The 26-1 is an SD feed, while the 26-2 is an HD

> feed.



Odd. It's usual the HD feed that has the primary channel designation

(xx-1) and SD channels get sub-channels (xx-2, xx-3, etc.) Are you certain?

> I've set up my converter options so I don't have to see the

> black bars on the top and bottom of the screen on the HD feed through

> my analog TV.



Until you get this situation clarified, I suggest you not do so.

> Both SD and HD display about the same amount of

> picture. But I've noticed something very peculiar between the two.

> The colors on the HD picture are relatively washed out as compared to

> the SD picture. It's as if someone turned the color and tint way

> down. The colors on the SD feed, however, are sharp and vibrant.



Again, I suggest you view all signals in their native aspect ratios

until you straighten this out. The bars at the top and bottom are a

good way to identify a 16:9 transmission.

> But then, the audio on the HD feed has a lot more punch--both in

> volume and bass/treble, compared to the SD which is quieter and flat,

> perhaps even mono. I have no way of telling.

>

> So I'm torn between having a nice sharp, vibrant colored picture,

> with flat audio on the SD feed, or having punchy audio but a very

> flat colored picture on the HD feed. I even tried bringing up the

> color and tint on my TV with the HD feed, but I can't quite get it to

> match the SD picture. And then my picture is all screwed up when I

> go back to my analog channels.

>

> So......anybody know what might be causing this? Are other people

> seeing this? Is it just a tweak they need to do at the station?



As the other poster speculated, it might be the box. You did not give

us a make/model number so we could check out any similar complaints in

other forums. I suggest you do so.







----------------------------

#93 Oct 17, 2008

The local fox from Salt Lake City is doing the same thing, SD on 13.1

and HD on 13.2. When questioned they said the SD feed was meant to be

the input for outlying translators which will not change to digital in

February. Could have something to do with receive equipment at cable

headends also.

wayne



----------------------------

#94 Oct 17, 2008

Wayne Johnson wrote:

> The local fox from Salt Lake City is doing the same thing, SD on 13.1

> and HD on 13.2. When questioned they said the SD feed was meant to be

> the input for outlying translators which will not change to digital in

> February. Could have something to do with receive equipment at cable

> headends also.



Many stations are experimenting with providing a 4:3 signal for use on

local cable systems, but the HD is usually on xx.1 and the SD is on xx.2



Are you quite certain that the 16:9 HDTV signal is on 13.2 ??



----------------------------

#95 Oct 17, 2008

How many stations are also running a third channel as well as the SD and HD options?. Apparently our local CBS affiliate is running the CW network on a third channel.. Be nice if they all ran secondary content like a movie channel or something.. I think also our local NBC affiliate runs a 24 hour weather feed on their second channel.. I have to wait till they get their digital out on the translators before I can receive much of it, though.

.

Rob

--- On Fri, 10/17/08, Eric knip@...> wrote:



From: Eric knip@...>

Subject: Re: [TV_Antennas] Re: SD vs HD picture through converters

To: TV_Antennas@yahoogroups.com

Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 1:20 PM













Wayne Johnson wrote:



> The local fox from Salt Lake City is doing the same thing, SD on 13.1

> and HD on 13.2. When questioned they said the SD feed was meant to be

> the input for outlying translators which will not change to digital in

> February. Could have something to do with receive equipment at cable

> headends also.



Many stations are experimenting with providing a 4:3 signal for use on

local cable systems, but the HD is usually on xx.1 and the SD is on xx.2



Are you quite certain that the 16:9 HDTV signal is on 13.2 ??





























---------------

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

mail.yahoo.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#96 Oct 17, 2008

Here in Dayton, Ohio, we get two channel 2's... same programming, one must be hi-def, we get two channel 7's, but the second is all weather, all the time, so no hi-def, i guess.... there are 5 or 6 channel 16's, all different programs, a couple channel 22's, maybe 3 channel 26's, 4 or 5 channel 43's, and a few channel 45's.... i get 19 stations with rabbit ears on the second floor.... i get 9 stations with a 1-1/2 inch long piece of wire grin>.....







curious as to whether i could get any Indiana or Cincinnati stuff with a large antenna, but they aren't to be had locally.....? i might slap together a little 4-foot log-periodic and try it....



steve koons

wd8dcx@...













-----Original Message-----

From: Robert Williams will7370@...>

To: TV_Antennas@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 5:25 pm

Subject: Re: [TV_Antennas] Re: SD vs HD picture through converters















How many stations are also running a third channel as well as the SD and HD options?? Apparently our local CBS affiliate is running the CW network on a third channel.? Be nice if they all ran secondary content like a movie channel or something.? I think also our local NBC affiliate runs a 24 hour weather feed on their second channel.? I have to wait till they get their digital out on the translators before I can receive much of it, though.

?

Rob

--- On Fri, 10/17/08, Eric knip@...> wrote:



From: Eric knip@...>

Subject: Re: [TV_Antennas] Re: SD vs HD picture through converters

To: TV_Antennas@yahoogroups.com

Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 1:20 PM



Wayne Johnson wrote:



> The local fox from Salt Lake City is doing the same thing, SD on 13.1

> and HD on 13.2. When questioned they said the SD feed was meant to be

> the input for outlying translators which will not change to digital in

> February. Could have something to do with receive equipment at cable

> headends also.



Many stations are experimenting with providing a 4:3 signal for use on

local cable systems, but the HD is usually on xx.1 and the SD is on xx.2



Are you quite certain that the 16:9 HDTV signal is on 13.2 ??





---------------

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

mail.yahoo.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#97 Oct 17, 2008

Robert Williams wrote:

> How many stations are also running a third channel as well as the SD and HD

> options? Apparently our local CBS affiliate is running the CW network on a

> third channel. Be nice if they all ran secondary content like a movie

> channel or something. I think also our local NBC affiliate runs a 24 hour

> weather feed on their second channel. I have to wait till they get their

> digital out on the translators before I can receive much of it, though.



Don't forget that the sub-channels take usable bandwidth away from the main

HD channel. The station only has 19.39 Mbps to play with. A good HD signal

takes 14-15 Mbps minimum. So, two sub-channels at 3 Mbps each would start

to rob the HDTV signal of necessary bandwidth, especially with live sports

transmitted in 1080i.



Yes, most if not all NBC affiliates run the NBC owned (and soon to be defunct)

"Weather +" service on their xx.2 sub-channel. NBC will offer "NBC Universal

Sports" as a replacement.



----------------------------

#100 Oct 20, 2008

Yes, the HD is on 13.2..13.1 is 4/3 ratio. I looked at my sencore

and they are using 11 to 14 mbps on the hd, the sd they are using

3.5 mbps. I can also see KUED which utilizes 3 streams of

programming with the 7.2 being the HD. The hd stream uses 11 to 13.5

mbps and the others are 2.2 which seems adequate for sd most of the

time. Grand junction KJCt is running 3 streams and they have a

constant mbps on the HD of 12.9 and the other two sd are 2.6 and 2.8.



wayne



--- In TV_Antennas@yahoogroups.com, Eric knip@...> wrote:

>

> Wayne Johnson wrote:

>

> > The local fox from Salt Lake City is doing the same thing, SD on

13.1

> > and HD on 13.2. When questioned they said the SD feed was meant

to be

> > the input for outlying translators which will not change to

digital in

> > February. Could have something to do with receive equipment at

cable

> > headends also.

>

> Many stations are experimenting with providing a 4:3 signal for use

on

> local cable systems, but the HD is usually on xx.1 and the SD is on

xx.2

>

> Are you quite certain that the 16:9 HDTV signal is on 13.2 ??

>



----------------------------

#101 Oct 20, 2008

Wayne Johnson wrote:

> Yes, the HD is on 13.2..13.1 is 4/3 ratio. I looked at my sencore

> and they are using 11 to 14 mbps on the hd, the sd they are using

> 3.5 mbps. I can also see KUED which utilizes 3 streams of

> programming with the 7.2 being the HD. The hd stream uses 11 to 13.5

> mbps and the others are 2.2 which seems adequate for sd most of the

> time. Grand junction KJCt is running 3 streams and they have a

> constant mbps on the HD of 12.9 and the other two sd are 2.6 and 2.8.



Are the above 1080i or 720p transmissions?



1080i and lower bit-rate HD transmissions (12.5 Mbps) are not good for

live sports telecasts. Lots of digital pixelization in fast motion, especially

in close-up shots. NBC is notorious for this. Strange to have the HD channel

on xx.2 though. My local HD channels are 6.1, 8.1, 10.1, 15.1, 39.1, 51.1,

and 69.1. No xx.2 HD channels around here (or L.A. for that matter.)



----------------------------

#102 Oct 20, 2008

The 13.2 is 720P Fox = the 8.1 720P Abc

The 7.2 is 1080I PBS



The CBs from utah utilizes almost all their

bandwidth to running one stream at 18.4 mbps.



Personally I prefer the 720P for sports, but

NBC and their 1080I is great for dramas, etc.



The response ratio of the tv may help with that

momentary blurriness that we all have seen. The

new lcds are increasing that with each new model.



wayne





--- In TV_Antennas@yahoogroups.com, Eric knip@...> wrote:

>

> Wayne Johnson wrote:

>

> > Yes, the HD is on 13.2..13.1 is 4/3 ratio. I looked at my

sencore

> > and they are using 11 to 14 mbps on the hd, the sd they are

using

> > 3.5 mbps. I can also see KUED which utilizes 3 streams of

> > programming with the 7.2 being the HD. The hd stream uses 11 to

13.5

> > mbps and the others are 2.2 which seems adequate for sd most of

the

> > time. Grand junction KJCt is running 3 streams and they have a

> > constant mbps on the HD of 12.9 and the other two sd are 2.6 and

2.8.

>

> Are the above 1080i or 720p transmissions?

>

> 1080i and lower bit-rate HD transmissions (12.5 Mbps) are not good

for

> live sports telecasts. Lots of digital pixelization in fast motion,

especially

> in close-up shots. NBC is notorious for this. Strange to have the

HD channel

> on xx.2 though. My local HD channels are 6.1, 8.1, 10.1, 15.1,

39.1, 51.1,

> and 69.1. No xx.2 HD channels around here (or L.A. for that matter.)

>



Contact Us
This Site's Privacy Policy
Google's privacy policies

S
e
n
i
o
r
T
u
b
e
.
o
r
g