Re: APO180FL and Herschel Wedge


Jun 15, 2013

 


----------------------------

#23902 Jun 15, 2013

Hi,



I recently received a TEC APO180FL scope. Of course, it's been very cloudy every day since then, but I got a break in the clouds for a few hours one morning and I did some solar viewing with a Baader Herschel Wedge. WOW!! At higher mags, I could see an amazing amount of structure in the sunspots. And the overall presentation of the sun was absolutely gorgeous. Also, during terrestrial viewing, objects on the horizon look really bright and sharp. Thanks Yuri and TEC for creating such an amazing piece of equipment, I can't want until the clouds finally clear. (:



I had a question for any other TEC 180 users out there who are also doing solar viewing (visual) with a Herschel Wedge: do you take any extra safety steps while viewing, considering the large aperture of the scope? I had considered stopping the scope down to perhaps 150mm, but of course I really didn't want to do that. I've heard from a couple of very knowledgeable sources that it's safe to use it with a 180, as long as you take breaks to let the wedge cool down a bit, for example 5 min every 15 minutes, or once an hour. I'm curious if anyone out there does the same, or has anything to add to this?



----------------------------

#23903 Jun 15, 2013

--- In tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com, "michaelgrechuta" michaelgrechuta@...> wrote: >

I've heard from a couple of very knowledgeable sources that it's safe to use it with a 180 ....



It is safe. The only potential danger lies in the wedge exit beam. I observe the sun with a 180-f/9 and Herschel wedge of my own design. The energy density of concentrated light passing through a 'clear' wedge isn't high enough to cause fracture, even one made of optical glass.



The only concern I've had with a Herschel wedge is heat distortion of the wedge's optical surface but I've never noticed any, at least visually.



However, to avoid that potential problem I've switched to fused quartz but earlier wedges made of optical glass haven't shown distortion so quartz may be overkill. My observation time with a wedge is typically in the range of 20-30 minutes, often less if nothing of interest is visible.



Richard



----------------------------

#23904 Jun 15, 2013

Michael,

I use the Baader wedge with my AP 178 f9. The first time I used it, smoke started emanating from the ceramic plate area - the smoke was irritating so I ceased observing, but I let the scope continue tracking the Sun for over an hour by which time the smoking ceased. At this time the diagonal was very hot to touch (but not dangerous) and I was aware of the heat when viewing  at the eyepiece (made an unpleasant experience). The smoking has not reoccurred and I believe the instrument is safe for continuous use, however as there is so much heat it can be uncomfortable, so I do cover the scope when not viewing.

In a similar way, an attached camera will experience a higher temperature which will increase noise.

Len.







Posted by:"michaelgrechuta" michaelgrechuta

Hi,

I recently received a TEC APO180FL scope. Of course, it's been very cloudy every day since then, but I got a break in the clouds for a few hours one morning and I did some solar viewing with a Baader Herschel Wedge. WOW!! At higher mags, I could see an amazing amount of structure in the sunspots. And the overall presentation of the sun was absolutely gorgeous. Also, during terrestrial viewing, objects on the horizon look really bright and sharp. Thanks Yuri and TEC for creating such an amazing piece of equipment, I can't want until the clouds finally clear. (:

I had a question for any other TEC 180 users out there who are also doing solar viewing (visual) with a Herschel Wedge: do you take any extra safety steps while viewing, considering the large aperture of the scope? I had considered stopping the scope down to perhaps 150mm, but of course I really didn't want to do that. I've heard from a couple of very knowledgeable sources that it's safe to use it with a 180, as long as you take breaks to let the wedge cool down a bit, for example 5 min every 15 minutes, or once an hour. I'm curious if anyone out there does the same, or has anything to add to this? 



----------------------------

#23905 Jun 15, 2013

It should not be a problem but I prefer stopping my APOs (and

achromat) instruments down to 5" due to typically marginal local

seeing conditions during the day.



Jeff





Quoting michaelgrechuta michaelgrechuta@...>:

> Hi,

>

> I recently received a TEC APO180FL scope. Of course, it's been very

> cloudy every day since then, but I got a break in the clouds for a

> few hours one morning and I did some solar viewing with a Baader

> Herschel Wedge. WOW!! At higher mags, I could see an amazing

> amount of structure in the sunspots. And the overall presentation of

> the sun was absolutely gorgeous. Also, during terrestrial viewing,

> objects on the horizon look really bright and sharp. Thanks Yuri and

> TEC for creating such an amazing piece of equipment, I can't want

> until the clouds finally clear. (:

>

> I had a question for any other TEC 180 users out there who are also

> doing solar viewing (visual) with a Herschel Wedge: do you take any

> extra safety steps while viewing, considering the large aperture of

> the scope? I had considered stopping the scope down to perhaps

> 150mm, but of course I really didn't want to do that. I've heard

> from a couple of very knowledgeable sources that it's safe to use it

> with a 180, as long as you take breaks to let the wedge cool down a

> bit, for example 5 min every 15 minutes, or once an hour. I'm

> curious if anyone out there does the same, or has anything to add to

> this?







----------------------------

#23906 Jun 15, 2013

Worked fine with the 160FL during the Venus transit last year, no stopping down needed.  IIRC, they are safe to use in extended sessions with a 200. This was the ceramic wedge variety.    Percy

--- On Sat, 6/15/13, j.blazey@... j.blazey@...> wrote:



From: j.blazey@... j.blazey@...>Subject: Re: [tec-scopes] APO180FL and Herschel WedgeTo: tec-scopes@yahoogroups.comDate: Saturday, June 15, 2013, 10:07 AM

 It should not be a problem but I prefer stopping my APOs (and achromat) instruments down to 5" due to typically marginal local seeing conditions during the day.

Jeff

Quoting michaelgrechuta michaelgrechuta@...>:

> Hi,>> I recently received a TEC APO180FL scope. Of course, it's been very > cloudy every day since then, but I got a break in the clouds for a > few hours one morning and I did some solar viewing with a Baader > Herschel Wedge. WOW!! At higher mags, I could see an amazing > amount of structure in the sunspots. And the overall presentation of > the sun was absolutely gorgeous. Also, during terrestrial viewing, > objects on the horizon look really bright and sharp. Thanks Yuri and

> TEC for creating such an amazing piece of equipment, I can't want > until the clouds finally clear. (:>> I had a question for any other TEC 180 users out there who are also > doing solar viewing (visual) with a Herschel Wedge: do you take any > extra safety steps while viewing, considering the large aperture of > the scope? I had considered stopping the scope down to perhaps > 150mm, but of course I really didn't want to do that. I've heard > from a couple of very knowledgeable sources that it's safe to use it > with a 180, as long as you take breaks to let the wedge cool down a > bit, for example 5 min every 15 minutes, or once an hour. I'm > curious if anyone out there does the same, or has anything to add to > this?



----------------------------

#23907 Jun 15, 2013

I use a full aperture Baader filter on an 8", so I can't speak about the

Herschel wedge. I will say, however, based on comparisons done at

Astrofest several times, I would not dream of stopping the telescope down.



Clear skies, Alan



----------------------------

#23908 Jun 15, 2013

I'm using a Daystar H-alpha filter, and was strongly advised by Jen to stop the scope down to ~5", entirely due to typical seeing conditions.

   ...Neil

 www.flemingastrophotography.com Direct from Boston -brilliant diamonds in pea soupAlso check out the astro_narrowband Yahoo group!

From: Percy Mui esotar330@...> To: tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [tec-scopes] APO180FL and Herschel Wedge

  Worked fine with the 160FL during the Venus transit last year, no stopping down needed.  IIRC, they are safe to use in extended sessions with a 200. This was the ceramic wedge variety.    Percy

--- On Sat, 6/15/13, j.blazey@... j.blazey@...> wrote:

From: j.blazey@... j.blazey@...>Subject: Re: [tec-scopes] APO180FL and Herschel WedgeTo: tec-scopes@yahoogroups.comDate: Saturday, June 15, 2013, 10:07 AM

 It should not be a problem but I prefer stopping my APOs (and achromat) instruments down to 5" due to typically marginal local seeing conditions during the day.

Jeff

Quoting michaelgrechuta michaelgrechuta@...>:

> Hi,>> I recently received a TEC APO180FL scope. Of course, it's been very > cloudy every day since then, but I got a break in the clouds for a > few hours one morning and I did some solar viewing with a Baader > Herschel Wedge. WOW!! At higher mags, I could see an amazing > amount of structure in the sunspots. And the overall presentation of > the sun was absolutely gorgeous. Also, during terrestrial viewing, > objects on the horizon look really bright and sharp. Thanks Yuri and

> TEC for creating such an amazing piece of equipment, I can't want > until the clouds finally clear. (:>> I had a question for any other TEC 180 users out there who are also > doing solar viewing (visual) with a Herschel Wedge: do you take any > extra safety steps while viewing, considering the large aperture of > the scope? I had considered stopping the scope down to perhaps > 150mm, but of course I really didn't want to do that. I've heard > from a couple of very knowledgeable sources that it's safe to use it > with a 180, as long as you take breaks to let the wedge cool down a > bit, for example 5 min every 15 minutes, or once an hour. I'm > curious if anyone out there does the same, or has anything to add to > this?



----------------------------

#23909 Jun 15, 2013

I just got the Baader wedge and used it on the AP175/8 and it sure made some smoke at first. I took the wedge out a few times to ensure the OTA wasn't filling with the same smoke. The views were (immediately) obviously higher resolution than the Baader film I have used for the last decade. Especially in the structure surrounding sunspots.



On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Neil Fleming neilfleming@...> wrote:

.I'm using a Daystar H-alpha filter, and was strongly advised by Jen to stop the scope down to ~5", entirely due to typical seeing conditions.



. ....Neil

.www.flemingastrophotography.com.Direct from Boston -brilliant diamonds in pea soupAlso check out the astro_narrowband Yahoo group!

From: Percy Mui esotar330@...>

To: tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [tec-scopes] APO180FL and Herschel Wedge



----------------------------

#23910 Jun 15, 2013

Mike wrote:



"The views were (immediately) obviously higher resolution than the

Baader film I have used for the last decade. Especially in the

structure surrounding sunspots."



Reply: Boom. :-)



Jeff





Quoting Mike C mike@...>:

> I just got the Baader wedge and used it on the AP175/8 and it sure made

> some smoke at first. I took the wedge out a few times to ensure the OTA

> wasn't filling with the same smoke. The views were (immediately) obviously

> higher resolution than the Baader film I have used for the last decade.

> Especially in the structure surrounding sunspots.

>

>

> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Neil Fleming neilfleming@...> wrote:

>

>> **

>>

>>

>> I'm using a Daystar H-alpha filter, and was strongly advised by Jen to

>> stop the scope down to ~5", entirely due to typical seeing conditions.

>>

>> ...Neil

>>

>> www.flemingastrophotography.com

>> *Direct from Boston - brilliant diamonds in pea soup*

>> *Also check out the astro_narrowband** Yahoo group!*

>>

---------------

>> *From:* Percy Mui esotar330@...>

>> *To:* tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com

>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 15, 2013 11:33 AM

>>

>> *Subject:* Re: [tec-scopes] APO180FL and Herschel Wedge

>>

>>

>> Worked fine with the 160FL during the Venus transit last year, no stopping

>> down needed. IIRC, they are safe to use in extended sessions with a

>> 200. This was the ceramic wedge variety.

>>

>> Percy

>>

>>

>> --- On *Sat, 6/15/13, j.blazey@...

>> j.blazey@...>*wrote:

>>

>>

>> From: j.blazey@... j.blazey@...>

>> Subject: Re: [tec-scopes] APO180FL and Herschel Wedge

>> To: tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com

>> Date: Saturday, June 15, 2013, 10:07 AM

>>

>>

>> It should not be a problem but I prefer stopping my APOs (and

>> achromat) instruments down to 5" due to typically marginal local

>> seeing conditions during the day.

>>

>> Jeff

>>

>> Quoting michaelgrechuta

>> michaelgrechuta@...us.mc1811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=michaelgrechuta%40yahoo.com>

>> >:

>>

>> > Hi,

>> >

>> > I recently received a TEC APO180FL scope. Of course, it's been very

>> > cloudy every day since then, but I got a break in the clouds for a

>> > few hours one morning and I did some solar viewing with a Baader

>> > Herschel Wedge. WOW!! At higher mags, I could see an amazing

>> > amount of structure in the sunspots. And the overall presentation of

>> > the sun was absolutely gorgeous. Also, during terrestrial viewing,

>> > objects on the horizon look really bright and sharp. Thanks Yuri and

>> > TEC for creating such an amazing piece of equipment, I can't want

>> > until the clouds finally clear. (:

>> >

>> > I had a question for any other TEC 180 users out there who are also

>> > doing solar viewing (visual) with a Herschel Wedge: do you take any

>> > extra safety steps while viewing, considering the large aperture of

>> > the scope? I had considered stopping the scope down to perhaps

>> > 150mm, but of course I really didn't want to do that. I've heard

>> > from a couple of very knowledgeable sources that it's safe to use it

>> > with a 180, as long as you take breaks to let the wedge cool down a

>> > bit, for example 5 min every 15 minutes, or once an hour. I'm

>> > curious if anyone out there does the same, or has anything to add to

>> > this?

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>







----------------------------

#23911 Jun 15, 2013

Hi everyone, thanks to all for all the interesting and helpful responses!!

> "The views were (immediately) obviously higher resolution than the

> Baader film I have used for the last decade. Especially in the

> structure surrounding sunspots."



My experience was similar, obviously higher resolution than a refractor with less aperture I have been using. Especially in the structure in and around the sunspots. At around 60x the view between the 2 scopes was similar, although perhaps the granulation was a little more finely delineated in the 180. I also noticed that the "snap to" focus was superb in the 180, very easy and quick to get perfect focus.



At higher mag, though, focusing on a sunspot, I could definitely see more, brighter detail with the 180 than I remember with the smaller scope.

> > I just got the Baader wedge and used it on the AP175/8 and it sure made

> > some smoke at first.



I had a similar experience when I first started using the wedge about 2 years ago. Not visible smoke, but a distinct "roasting" smell. It eventually seems to have calmed down though.

> >> I'm using a Daystar H-alpha filter, and was strongly advised by Jen to

> >> stop the scope down to ~5", entirely due to typical seeing conditions.



Fortunately I was able to get a nice stable image with the 180. In my limited experience with it so far, it seems to handle non-perfect seeing well.

> >> Worked fine with the 160FL during the Venus transit last year, no stopping

> >> down needed. IIRC, they are safe to use in extended sessions with a

> >> 200. This was the ceramic wedge variety.



Great, thanks! Good to hear, that confirms what I've heard elsewhere.

>I use a full aperture Baader filter on an 8", so I can't speak about the Herschel wedge. I will say, however, based on comparisons done at

Astrofest several times, I would not dream of stopping the telescope down.



Thanks. Yeah I dont want to if I don't need to, thats for sure. (:



Any idea what would happen if the wedge actually (gulp) failed somehow due to the heat? Would it be a disaster for the eyes, or would the wedge just stop transmitting light?



----------------------------

#23912 Jun 16, 2013

I recall reading the Baader Herschel safety wedge is not recommended for over 4" aperture refractors. You risk cracking the filter and irreparable eye damage. I use it with my Eclipse.

Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone





From:

j.blazey@... j.blazey@...>;

To:

tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com>;

Subject:

Re: [tec-scopes] APO180FL and Herschel Wedge

Sent:

Sun, Jun 16, 2013 12:45:46 AM



Mike wrote:

"The views were (immediately) obviously higher resolution than the  Baader film I have used for the last decade.  Especially in the  structure surrounding sunspots."

Reply:  Boom.  :-)

Jeff

Quoting Mike C mike@...>:

> I just got the Baader wedge and used it on the AP175/8 and it sure made> some smoke at first. I took the wedge out a few times to ensure the OTA> wasn't filling with the same smoke. The views were (immediately) obviously> higher resolution than the Baader film I have used for the last decade.> Especially in the structure surrounding sunspots.>>> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Neil Fleming href="javascript:returnneilfleming@...> wrote: >>> **>>>>>> I'm using a Daystar H-alpha filter, and was strongly advised by Jen to>> stop the scope down to ~5", entirely due to typical seeing conditions.>>>>    ...Neil>>>> www.flemingastrophotography.com>> *Direct from Boston - brilliant diamonds in pea soup*>> *Also check out the astro_narrowband** Yahoo group!*>>--------------->>  *From:* Percy Mui esotar330@...>>> *To:* tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 15, 2013 11:33 AM>>>> *Subject:* Re: [tec-scopes] APO180FL and Herschel

Wedge >>>>>> Worked fine with the 160FL during the Venus transit last year, no stopping>> down needed.  IIRC, they are safe to use in extended sessions with a>> 200. This was the ceramic wedge variety.>>>> Percy>>>>>> --- On *Sat, 6/15/13, j.blazey@...  >> j.blazey@...>*wrote:>>>>>> From: j.blazey@... j.blazey@...>>> Subject: Re: [tec-scopes] APO180FL and Herschel Wedge>> To: href="javascript:returntec-scopes@yahoogroups.com >> Date: Saturday, June 15, 2013, 10:07 AM>>>>>> It should not be a problem but I prefer stopping my APOs (and>> achromat) instruments down to 5" due to typically marginal local>> seeing conditions during the day.>>>> Jeff>>>> Quoting michaelgrechuta  >> michaelgrechuta@...us.mc1811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=michaelgrechuta%40yahoo.com>>> >:>>>> > Hi,>> >>> > I recently received a TEC APO180FL scope. Of course, it's been very>> > cloudy every day since then, but I got a break in the clouds for a>> >

few hours one morning and I did some solar viewing with a Baader >> > Herschel Wedge. WOW!! At higher mags, I could see an amazing>> > amount of structure in the sunspots. And the overall presentation of>> > the sun was absolutely gorgeous. Also, during terrestrial viewing,>> > objects on the horizon look really bright and sharp. Thanks Yuri and>> > TEC for creating such an amazing piece of equipment, I can't want>> > until the clouds finally clear. (:>> >>> > I had a question for any other TEC 180 users out there who are also>> > doing solar viewing (visual) with a Herschel Wedge: do you take any>> > extra safety steps while viewing, considering the large aperture of>> > the scope? I had considered stopping the scope down to perhaps>> > 150mm, but of course I really didn't want to do that. I've

heard >> > from a couple of very knowledgeable sources that it's safe to use it>> > with a 180, as long as you take breaks to let the wedge cool down a>> > bit, for example 5 min every 15 minutes, or once an hour. I'm>> > curious if anyone out there does the same, or has anything to add to>> > this?>>>>>>>>>>





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----------------------------

#23913 Jun 16, 2013

Is that the ceramic wedge (ie the newer style), or is that the older model?

I would contact Baader directly and ask them based on whichever model wedge you have.  I have the older style and I use it with my 140 quite a bit and have never (up to this point) had any issues or concerns



Steve



From: "timkhan@..." timkhan@...> To: "tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com" tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [tec-scopes] APO180FL and Herschel Wedge

  I recall reading the Baader Herschel safety wedge is not recommended for over 4" aperture refractors. You risk cracking the filter and irreparable eye damage. I use it with my Eclipse.

Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone





From:

j.blazey@... j.blazey@...>;

To:

tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com>;

Subject:

Re: [tec-scopes] APO180FL and Herschel Wedge

Sent:

Sun, Jun 16, 2013 12:45:46 AM



Mike wrote:

"The views were (immediately) obviously higher resolution than the  Baader film I have used for the last decade.  Especially in the  structure surrounding sunspots."

Reply:  Boom.  :-)

Jeff

Quoting Mike C mike@...>:

> I just got the Baader wedge and used it on the AP175/8 and it sure made> some smoke at first. I took the wedge out a few times to ensure the OTA> wasn't filling with the same smoke. The views were (immediately) obviously> higher resolution than the Baader film I have used for the last decade.> Especially in the structure surrounding sunspots.>>> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Neil Fleming neilfleming@...> wrote:>>>

** >>>>>> I'm using a Daystar H-alpha filter, and was strongly advised by Jen to>> stop the scope down to ~5", entirely due to typical seeing conditions.>>>>    ...Neil>>>> www.flemingastrophotography.com>> *Direct from Boston - brilliant diamonds in pea soup*>> *Also check out the astro_narrowband** Yahoo group!*>>--------------->>  *From:* Percy Mui esotar330@...>>> *To:* tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 15, 2013 11:33 AM>>>> *Subject:* Re: [tec-scopes] APO180FL and Herschel

Wedge >>>>>> Worked fine with the 160FL during the Venus transit last year, no stopping>> down needed.  IIRC, they are safe to use in extended sessions with a>> 200. This was the ceramic wedge variety.>>>> Percy>>>>>> --- On *Sat, 6/15/13, j.blazey@...  >> j.blazey@...>*wrote:>>>>>> From: j.blazey@... j.blazey@...>>> Subject: Re: [tec-scopes] APO180FL and Herschel Wedge>> To: tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com>> Date: Saturday, June 15, 2013, 10:07 AM>>>>>> It should not be a problem but I prefer stopping my APOs (and>> achromat)

instruments down to 5" due to typically marginal local >> seeing conditions during the day.>>>> Jeff>>>> Quoting michaelgrechuta  >> michaelgrechuta@...us.mc1811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=michaelgrechuta%40yahoo.com>>> >:>>>> > Hi,>> >>> > I recently received a TEC APO180FL scope. Of course, it's been very>> > cloudy every day since then, but I got a break in the clouds for a>> >

few hours one morning and I did some solar viewing with a Baader >> > Herschel Wedge. WOW!! At higher mags, I could see an amazing>> > amount of structure in the sunspots. And the overall presentation of>> > the sun was absolutely gorgeous. Also, during terrestrial viewing,>> > objects on the horizon look really bright and sharp. Thanks Yuri and>> > TEC for creating such an amazing piece of equipment, I can't want>> > until the clouds finally clear. (:>> >>> > I had a question for any other TEC 180 users out there who are also>> > doing solar viewing (visual) with a Herschel Wedge: do you take any>> > extra safety steps while viewing, considering the large aperture of>> > the scope? I had considered stopping the scope down to perhaps>> > 150mm, but of course I really didn't want to do that. I've

heard >> > from a couple of very knowledgeable sources that it's safe to use it>> > with a 180, as long as you take breaks to let the wedge cool down a>> > bit, for example 5 min every 15 minutes, or once an hour. I'm>> > curious if anyone out there does the same, or has anything to add to>> > this?>>>>>>>>>>





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----------------------------

#23914 Jun 16, 2013

AP sold me the Baader wedge and I asked questions about using it with the 175 refractor.



On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Steve shoff535@...> wrote:

.Is that the ceramic wedge (ie the newer style), or is that the older model?



I would contact Baader directly and ask them based on whichever model wedge you have.. I have the older style and I use it with my 140 quite a bit and have never (up to this point) had any issues or concerns





Steve



From: "timkhan@..." timkhan@...>

To: "tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com" tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [tec-scopes] APO180FL and Herschel Wedge







----------------------------

#23915 Jun 16, 2013

I'm considering buying one, and haveread quite of bit of literature, including safety warnings, today.Nothing about limits on aperture.



Clear skies, Alan

On 6/16/2013 3:48 PM, Mike C wrote:



AP sold me the Baader wedge and I asked questionsabout using it with the 175 refractor.



On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Steveshoff535@...>wrote:

.Is that the ceramic wedge (ie the newerstyle), or is that the older model?



I would contact Baaderdirectly and ask them based on whichever modelwedge you have.. I have the older style and Iuse it with my 140 quite a bit and have never(up to this point) had any issues or concerns







Steve





From:"timkhan@..."timkhan@...>

To:"tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com"tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com>

Sent:Sunday, June 16, 2013 1:31 PM

Subject:Re: [tec-scopes] APO180FL and HerschelWedge



----------------------------

#23916 Jun 16, 2013

I'll look for the product literature for their recommendations. Mine is one of the newer ones with the ceramic heat dissipating tile.

Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone





From:

Alan French adfrench@...>;

To:

tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com>;

Subject:

Re: [tec-scopes] APO180FL and Herschel Wedge

Sent:

Sun, Jun 16, 2013 8:05:09 PM





I'm considering buying one, and haveread quite of bit of literature, including safety warnings, today.Nothing about limits on aperture.



Clear skies, Alan

On 6/16/2013 3:48 PM, Mike C wrote:



AP sold me the Baader wedge and I asked questionsabout using it with the 175 refractor.



On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Steveshoff535@...>wrote:

.Is that the ceramic wedge (ie the newerstyle), or is that the older model?



I would contact Baaderdirectly and ask them based on whichever modelwedge you have.. I have the older style and Iuse it with my 140 quite a bit and have never(up to this point) had any issues or concerns







Steve





From:"timkhan@..."timkhan@...>

To:"tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com"tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com>

Sent:Sunday, June 16, 2013 1:31 PM

Subject:Re: [tec-scopes] APO180FL and HerschelWedge



----------------------------

#23917 Jun 16, 2013

There is no expectation that the wedge will get hot enough to fracture, but if it did either the fragments would continue to reflect sone light to the eyepiece + there would be scattered light from the fragment edges (so it would be  a bad view immediately, or the fragments would not work at all in which case there would be a blur of scattered light. The heat issue is not in the prism. The heat is being contained in the ceramic plates at the back of the Baader wedge. In the original designs, the light not reflected to the eye was allowed to exit the back of the wedge where it came to  a focus which was dangerously bright/hot - it could cause skin (sun) burns, set clothes on fire etc. The ceramic plates in the Baader design are there to diffuse that intense heat and dissipate it safely (still noticeably). The light from the wedge is still too intense for safe viewing, hence the ND filters which must be used. I would expect that the ND filters will experience as much heating as the wedge itself  (I have not done any temp checks on that).

Overall any risk would be far less than the risk of  the astrosolar filter splitting or a glass front filter breaking as you are not observing in line with the primary beam.

Len.



Any idea what would happen if the wedge actually (gulp) failed somehow due to the heat? Would it be a disaster for the eyes, or would the wedge just stop transmitting light?



----------------------------

#23918 Jun 17, 2013

I do realize that approximately 95% of light and heat is passed out the back of the wedge, and 5 % reflected. I suspect the reason for a apperture limit is technical and legal.



From: Len Fulham lfulham@...> To: tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 5:21 PM Subject: [tec-scopes] Re: APO180FL and Herschel Wedge



There is no expectation that the wedge will get hot enough to fracture, but if it did either the fragments would continue to reflect sone light to the eyepiece + there would be scattered light from the fragment edges (so it would be  a bad view immediately, or the fragments would not work at all in which case there would be a blur of scattered light. The heat issue is not in the prism. The heat is being contained in the ceramic plates at the back of the Baader wedge. In the original designs, the light not reflected to the eye was allowed to exit the back of the wedge where it came to  a focus which was dangerously bright/hot - it could cause skin (sun) burns, set clothes on fire etc. The ceramic plates in the Baader design are there to diffuse that intense heat and dissipate it safely (still noticeably). The light from the wedge is still too intense for safe viewing, hence the ND filters which must be used. I would expect that the NDfilters will experience as much heating as the wedge itself  (I have not done any temp checks on that).

Overall any risk would be far less than the risk of  the astrosolar filter splitting or a glass front filter breaking as you are not observing in line with the primary beam.

Len.



Any idea what would happen if the wedge actually (gulp) failed somehow due to the heat? Would it be a disaster for the eyes, or would the wedge just stop transmitting light?







----------------------------

#23919 Jun 17, 2013

But have we established that there is indeed an aperture limit? It's not in their literature... unless you checked and found differently? And if you ask them, they definitely don't say you need to stop at 4", as you posted before. Again, unless you had a different experience...?



--- In tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com, Tim Khan timkhan@...> wrote:

>

> I do realize that approximately 95% of light and heat is passed out the back of the wedge, and 5 % reflected. I suspect the reason for a apperture limit is technical and legal.

>

>

---------------

> From: Len Fulham lfulham@...>

> To: tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 5:21 PM

> Subject: [tec-scopes] Re: APO180FL and Herschel Wedge

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> There is no expectation that the wedge will get hot enough to fracture, but if it did either the fragments would continue to reflect sone light to the eyepiece + there would be scattered light from the fragment edges (so it would be .a bad view immediately, or the fragments would not work at all in which case there would be a blur of scattered light. The heat issue is not in the prism. The heat is being contained in the ceramic plates at the back of the Baader wedge. In the original designs, the light not reflected to the eye was allowed to exit the back of the wedge where it came to .a focus which was dangerously bright/hot - it could cause skin (sun) burns, set clothes on fire etc. The ceramic plates in the Baader design are there to diffuse that intense heat and dissipate it safely (still noticeably). The light from the wedge is still too intense for safe viewing, hence the ND filters which must be used. I would expect that the ND filters will

> experience as much heating as the wedge itself .(I have not done any temp checks on that).

>

> Overall any risk would be far less than the risk of .the astrosolar filter splitting or a glass front filter breaking as you are not observing in line with the primary beam.

>

> Len.

>

>

> Any idea what would happen if the wedge actually (gulp) failed somehow due to the heat? Would it be a disaster for the eyes, or would the wedge just stop transmitting light?

>



----------------------------

#23920 Jun 17, 2013

I forgot to check the instructions last night, but I do recall an aperture limit since I wanted to use it with my 180FL and was a bit disappointed after reading the included Baader instructions. I'll try to remember tonight and snap a pic of it.

From: michaelgrechuta michaelgrechuta@...> To: tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 9:50 AM Subject: [tec-scopes] Re: APO180FL and HerschelWedge

But have we established that there is indeed an aperture limit?  It's not in their literature... unless you checked and found differently?  And if you ask them, they definitely don't say you need to stop at 4", as you posted before.  Again, unless you had a different experience...?

--- In tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com, Tim Khan timkhan@...> wrote:>> I do realize that approximately 95% of light and heat is passed out the back of the wedge, and 5 % reflected. I suspect the reason for a apperture limit is technical and legal.> > --------------->  From: Len Fulham lfulham@...>> To: tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 5:21 PM> Subject:[tec-scopes] Re: APO180FL and Herschel Wedge>  > > >  > > > > There is no expectation that the wedge will get hot enough to fracture, but if it did either the fragments would continue to reflect sone light to the eyepiece + there would be scattered light from the fragment edges (so it would be  a bad view immediately, or the fragments would not work at all in which case there would be a blur of scattered light. The heat issue is not in the prism. The heat is being contained in the ceramic plates at the back of the Baader wedge. In the original designs, the light not reflected to the eye was allowed to exit the back of the wedge where it came to  a focus which was dangerously bright/hot - it could cause skin (sun) burns, set clothes on fire etc. The ceramic plates in the Baader design are there to diffuse that intense heat and dissipate it safely (still noticeably). The lightfrom the wedge is still too intense for safe viewing, hence the ND filters which must be used. I would expect that the ND filters will>  experience as much heating as the wedge itself  (I have not done any temp checks on that).> > Overall any risk would be far less than the risk of  the astrosolar filter splitting or a glass front filter breaking as you are not observing in line with the primary beam.> > Len.> > > Any idea what would happen if the wedge actually (gulp) failed somehow due to the heat? Would it be a disaster for the eyes, or would the wedge just stop transmitting light?>



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----------------------------

#23921 Jun 17, 2013

This seems to be the current instruction sheet for the Baader Herschel

Wedge...



www.baader-planetarium.com/pdf/herschel_wedge_e.pdf



Clear skies, Alan

On 6/17/2013 9:50 AM, michaelgrechuta wrote:

> But have we established that there is indeed an aperture limit? It's not in their literature... unless you checked and found differently? And if you ask them, they definitely don't say you need to stop at 4", as you posted before. Again, unless you had a different experience...?

>

>







----------------------------

#23922 Jun 17, 2013

The Baader instruction sheet is technically complete, but it fails to emphasize an important aspect of using amateur telescopes for solar viewing or imaging. We have to completely change the way we think of our equipment. Instead of telescopes, eyepieces, cameras, filters, etc., a solar setup has to be treated mentally as though it were a loaded gun. Larger apertures are equivalent to larger caliber guns.



Imaging or viewing near the sun is unfamiliar territory for most of us and all the warnings about solar viewing can't be repeated too often. Last year year I set up for the partial solar eclipse with a non-goto mount, and a 85 mm refractor. A Baader front filter was carefully attached using a long cardborad collar that held it in place on the dewcap. I got the polar alignment through several iterations and then settled down to a long series of subs at 30 second intervals.



After two hours the sun disappeared behind some trees and it was time to quit and put everything away. Out of habit, I reached up and retracted the dew cap, the solar filter popped off, and I reached for the lens cap... Then a moment of sheer panic! Did I really do something that stupid?



Fortunately the tree leaves were thick enough, and the time between the filter coming off and the lens cap going on was only a few seconds, so the attached DSLR lived to tell about it. It could have been ugly if Mr. Sun was a little higher in the sky or if the camera mirror was in the up position. I suspect a larger aperture would have definitely damaged the camera.



Jim M.

--- In tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com, Alan French adfrench@...> wrote:

>

> This seems to be the current instruction sheet for the Baader Herschel

> Wedge...

>

> www.baader-planetarium.com/pdf/herschel_wedge_e.pdf

>

> Clear skies, Alan

>

> On 6/17/2013 9:50 AM, michaelgrechuta wrote:

> > But have we established that there is indeed an aperture limit? It's not in their literature... unless you checked and found differently? And if you ask them, they definitely don't say you need to stop at 4", as you posted before. Again, unless you had a different experience...?

> >

> >

>



----------------------------

#23923 Jun 17, 2013

- if there is the limit it should be related to F-ratio as well.

The energy concentration would be different for 100mm F/4 and 100mm F/10.

I did observe the sun and VT2012 with older style Baader Hershel wedge on APO140 and had no problem. For sure you will feel the heat coming down from the unit. I think next step in development would be adding a small fan...

Yuri

--- In tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com, Tim Khan timkhan@...> wrote:

>

> I do realize that approximately 95% of light and heat is passed out the back of the wedge, and 5 % reflected. I suspect the reason for a apperture limit is technical and legal.

>

>

---------------

> From: Len Fulham lfulham@...>

> To: tec-scopes@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 5:21 PM

> Subject: [tec-scopes] Re: APO180FL and Herschel Wedge

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> There is no expectation that the wedge will get hot enough to fracture, but if it did either the fragments would continue to reflect sone light to the eyepiece + there would be scattered light from the fragment edges (so it would be .a bad view immediately, or the fragments would not work at all in which case there would be a blur of scattered light. The heat issue is not in the prism. The heat is being contained in the ceramic plates at the back of the Baader wedge. In the original designs, the light not reflected to the eye was allowed to exit the back of the wedge where it came to .a focus which was dangerously bright/hot - it could cause skin (sun) burns, set clothes on fire etc. The ceramic plates in the Baader design are there to diffuse that intense heat and dissipate it safely (still noticeably). The light from the wedge is still too intense for safe viewing, hence the ND filters which must be used. I would expect that the ND filters will

> experience as much heating as the wedge itself .(I have not done any temp checks on that).

>

> Overall any risk would be far less than the risk of .the astrosolar filter splitting or a glass front filter breaking as you are not observing in line with the primary beam.

>

> Len.

>

>

> Any idea what would happen if the wedge actually (gulp) failed somehow due to the heat? Would it be a disaster for the eyes, or would the wedge just stop transmitting light?

>



----------------------------

#23924 Jun 17, 2013

I wrote to Baader, and was told that it IS safe to use the Herschel Wedge with a 180mm scope, for up to an hour. Then everything needs to cool down, because the heat will start to transfer from the prism to the bino.



Jim, glad you got out of that close call OK!!!



Yuri, adding a small fan sounds like a great idea...



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