Re: Noise on MFSK mode


Nov 9, 2006

 


----------------------------

#2058 Nov 9, 2006

Just to add my observation, I have noticed that when I am in MFSK modethat I get an intermittent noise on the waterfall that masks the normalreceiver noise floor.  This noiseis broadband extending out past 4.3 kHz. My testing suggests the software andnot the soundcard generates it. Has anyone else observed this or is it just my installation?? Les   -----Original Message-----

From: multipsk@yahoogroups.com[mailto:multipsk@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Ofnod468

Sent: Thursday, November 09, 20065:07 PM

To: multipsk@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [multipsk] ID DETECTOR Hi Patrick:

I was on the air with Txema the other day and the 20m band was very

noisy..Txema was trying to change my modes and succeeded with some but

when he tried to switch me over to MFSK16 it didnt work..Probably

because of the noisy condx..the s/n was 6db at the time but with the

extreme noise hr the test failed..Probably nothing to worry about

because it was an extreme case..Some of the other modes however seemed

to work..Your ideas Patrick..?

Don w1oer



----------------------------

#2075 Nov 10, 2006

Hello Les, RR for all. I have tried the MFSK16 coding/decoding. There isnothing special and the phase is continous... Try to switch off the XCVR and see if you havestill noise. If so, it's some noise from the computer. If not, there is nospecific problem.Possibly, it can be a saturation of the signal butI suppose that you control that it is not saturated. Note: the waterfall program is independant of themode (except for SSTV and MT63). So there is no specificity to MFSK16. 73Patrick  ----- Original Message -----From:Les(VE6OG)To: multipsk@yahoogroups.comSent: Friday, November 10, 2006 2:56AMSubject: [multipsk] Noise on MFSKmode



Just to add myobservation, I have noticed that when I am in MFSK mode that I get anintermittent noise on the waterfall that masks the normal receiver noisefloor.  This noise is broadband extending out past 4.3 kHz.My testing suggests the software and not the soundcard generatesit.  Has anyone else observed this or is it just myinstallation? ?

Les



-----OriginalMessage-----From:multipsk@yahoogroup s.com[mailto:multipsk@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of nod468Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:07PMTo:multipsk@yahoogroup s.comSubject: [multipsk] IDDETECTOR

Hi Patrick:I was on the air withTxema the other day and the 20m band was very noisy..Txema was trying tochange my modes and succeeded with some but when he tried to switch meover to MFSK16 it didnt work..Probably because of the noisy condx..the s/nwas 6db at the time but with the extreme noise hr the testfailed..Probably nothing to worry about because it was an extremecase..Some of the other modes however seemed to work..Your ideasPatrick..?Don w1oer



----------------------------

#2082 Nov 10, 2006

HiPatrick, I have tried many tests to determine the origin of the noise includingturning off the radio turning down soundcard volume controls and shutting offall other running applications and nothing seems to affect it.  You are correct that it is notspecified to MFSK and not specific to version 4.1.1 as I have seen it in otherversions.   My noise floor normally shows blue with some yellow and when this noisecomes on it is yellow with some orange, masking any signals on the waterfall.  The noise is broad with the sameappearance from 200 to 4300 Hz. I did receive a note from one other ham who experienced the same thingso makes me think it is not my setup alone but one of those intermittent thingsthat we may never find.  When itcomes back I will try to document the conditions that seem to trigger it. Les -----Original Message-----

From: multipsk@yahoogroups.com[mailto:multipsk@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf OfPatrick Lindecker

Sent: Friday, November 10, 20063:09 PM

To: multipsk@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [multipsk] Noise onMFSK mode Hello Les, RR for all. (Message over 64 KB, truncated)



----------------------------

#2084 Nov 10, 2006

    Just a thought, but have you tried turning the monitor off to seeif the noise disappears? My monitor generates a bit of hash now andthen, depending on what is on the screen, and what frequency I'moperating on. If your monitor supports it, maybe changing refresh ratesmight eliminate it?



73

Dave

KB3MOW





Les (VE6OG) wrote:HiPatrick, I have tried many tests to determine the origin of the noiseincludingturning off the radio turning down soundcard volume controls andshutting offall other running applications and nothing seems to affect it.  Youare correct that it is notspecified to MFSK and not specific to version 4.1.1 as I have seen itin otherversions.   My noise floor normallyshows blue with some yellow and when this noisecomes on it is yellow with some orange, masking any signals on thewaterfall.  The noise is broad with the sameappearance from 200 to 4300 Hz. I did receive a note fromone other ham who experienced the same thingso makes me think it is not my setup alone but one of thoseintermittent thingsthat we may never find.  When itcomes back I will try to document the conditions that seem to triggerit. Les -----OriginalMessage-----

From:multipsk@yahoogroup s.com[mailto:multipsk@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf OfPatrick Lindecker

Sent: Friday, November10, 20063:09 PM

To: multipsk@yahoogroup s.com

Subject: Re:[multipsk] Noise onMFSK mode Hello Les, RR for all. I havetried the MFSK16 coding/decoding.There is nothing special and the phase is continous... Try toswitch off the XCVR and seeif you have still noise. If so, it's some noise from the computer. Ifnot,there is no specific problem.Possibly,it can be a saturation of thesignal but I suppose that you control that it is not saturated. Note: thewaterfall program isindependant of the mode (except for SSTV and MT63). So there is nospecificity to MFSK16. 73Patrick  -----Original Message ----- From: Les(VE6OG)

To: multipsk@yahoogroup s.com

Sent: Friday,November 10,2006 2:56 AMSubject:[multipsk] Noise on MFSK mode 

Just to add my observation, I have noticed thatwhen I am inMFSK mode that I get an intermittent noise on the waterfall that masksthenormal receiver noise floor.  This noise is broadband extending outpast4.3 kHz. My testing suggests the software and not the soundcardgeneratesit.  Has anyone else observed this or is it just my installation? ?

Les -----OriginalMessage-----

From:multipsk@yahoogroup s.com[mailto:multipsk@ yahoogroups. com]OnBehalf Of nod468

Sent: Thursday,November 09, 20065:07 PM

To: multipsk@yahoogroup s.com

Subject: [multipsk] IDDETECTOR HiPatrick:

I was on the air with Txema the other day and the 20m band was very

noisy..Txema was trying to change my modes and succeeded with some but

when he tried to switch me over to MFSK16 it didnt work..Probably

because of the noisy condx..the s/n was 6db at the time but with the

extreme noise hr the test failed..Probably nothing to worry about

because it was an extreme case..Some of the other modes however seemed

to work..Your ideas Patrick..?

Don w1oer







----------------------------

#2086 Nov 10, 2006

Good thought...in my case it was noise induced via the ptt

connection...I could tell as it varied with mode (MT63 noise was very

different). If I stopped the waterfall by going from "RX" to "stop" the

noise ceased..also went away when I disconnected the computer to PTT

line.....was computer generated hash that I isolated (got rid of) with a

few torroids on computer to rig PTT line.



Good luck es 73



Bill, N9DSJ



--- In multipsk@yahoogroups.com, Dave Corio dcorio@...> wrote:

>

> Just a thought, but have you tried turning the monitor off to see if

> the noise disappears? My monitor generates a bit of hash now and then,

> depending on what is on the screen, and what frequency I'm operating

on.

> If your monitor supports it, maybe changing refresh rates might

> eliminate it?

>

> 73

> Dave

> KB3MOW

>

>

> Les (VE6OG) wrote:

> >

> > Hi Patrick, I have tried many tests to determine the origin of the

> > noise including turning off the radio turning down soundcard volume

> > controls and shutting off all other running applications and nothing

> > seems to affect it. You are correct that it is not specified to MFSK

> > and not specific to version 4.1.1 as I have seen it in other

versions.

> >

> >

> >

> > My noise floor normally shows blue with some yellow and when this

> > noise comes on it is yellow with some orange, masking any signals on

> > the waterfall. The noise is broad with the same appearance from 200

> > to 4300 Hz.

> >

> >

> >

> > I did receive a note from one other ham who experienced the same

thing

> > so makes me think it is not my setup alone but one of those

> > intermittent things that we may never find. When it comes back I

will

> > try to document the conditions that seem to trigger it.

> >

> >

> >

> > Les

> >

> >

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > *From:* multipsk@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:multipsk@yahoogroups.com]*On

> > Behalf Of *Patrick Lindecker

> > *Sent:* Friday, November 10, 2006 3:09 PM

> > *To:* multipsk@yahoogroups.com

> > *Subject:* Re: [multipsk] Noise on MFSK mode

> >

> >

> >

> > Hello Les,

> >

> >

> >

> > RR for all.

> >

> >

> >

> > I have tried the MFSK16 coding/decoding. There is nothing special

and

> > the phase is continous...

> >

> >

> >

> > Try to switch off the XCVR and see if you have still noise. If so,

> > it's some noise from the computer. If not, there is no specific

problem.

> >

> > Possibly, it can be a saturation of the signal but I suppose that

you

> > control that it is not saturated.

> >

> >

> >

> > Note: the waterfall program is independant of the mode (except for

> > SSTV and MT63). So there is no specificity to MFSK16.

> >

> >

> >

> > 73

> >

> > Patrick

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> >

> > *From:* Les (VE6OG) mailto:ve6og@...

> >

> > *To:* multipsk@yahoogroups.com mailto:multipsk@yahoogroups.com

> >

> > *Sent:* Friday, November 10, 2006 2:56 AM

> >

> > *Subject:* [multipsk] Noise on MFSK mode

> >

> >

> >

> > Just to add my observation, I have noticed that when I am in MFSK

mode

> > that I get an intermittent noise on the waterfall that masks the

> > normal receiver noise floor. This noise is broadband extending out

> > past 4.3 kHz. My testing suggests the software and not the soundcard

> > generates it. Has anyone else observed this or is it just my

> > installation??

> >

> > Les

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > *From:* multipsk@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:multipsk@yahoogroups.com]*On

> > Behalf Of *nod468

> > *Sent:* Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:07 PM

> > *To:* multipsk@yahoogroups.com

> > *Subject:* [multipsk] ID DETECTOR

> >

> > Hi Patrick:

> > I was on the air with Txema the other day and the 20m band was very

> > noisy..Txema was trying to change my modes and succeeded with some

but

> > when he tried to switch me over to MFSK16 it didnt work..Probably

> > because of the noisy condx..the s/n was 6db at the time but with the

> > extreme noise hr the test failed..Probably nothing to worry about

> > because it was an extreme case..Some of the other modes however

seemed

> > to work..Your ideas Patrick..?

> > Don w1oer

> >

> >

>



----------------------------

#2087 Nov 10, 2006

Thanks for the ideas.  Whenthe noise comes back, I will try these.Thanks,Les -----Original Message-----

From: multipsk@yahoogroups.com[mailto:multipsk@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf OfBill McLaughlin

Sent: Friday, November 10, 20067:28 PM

To: multipsk@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [multipsk] Re: Noise on MFSKmode 

Good thought...in my case it was noise induced via the ptt

connection.. .I could tell as it varied with mode (MT63 noise was very

different). If I stopped the waterfall by going from "RX" to"stop" the

noise ceased..also went away when I disconnected the computer to PTT

line.....was computer generated hash that I isolated (got rid of) with a

few torroids on computer to rig PTT line.



Good luck es 73



Bill, N9DSJ



--- In multipsk@yahoogroup s.com,Dave Corio dcorio@...> wrote:

>

> Just a thought, but have you tried turning the monitor off to see if

> the noise disappears? My monitor generates a bit of hash now and then,

> depending on what is on the screen, and what frequency I'm operating

on. > If your monitor supports it, maybe changing refresh rates might

> eliminate it?

>

> 73

> Dave

> KB3MOW

>

>

> Les (VE6OG) wrote:

> >

> > Hi Patrick, I have tried many tests to determine the origin of the

> > noise including turning off the radio turning down soundcard volume

> > controls and shutting off all other running applications and nothing

> > seems to affect it. You are correct that it is not specified to MFSK

> > and not specific to version 4.1.1 as I have seen it in other

versions. > >

> >

> >

> > My noise floor normally shows blue with some yellow and when this

> > noise comes on it is yellow with some orange, masking any signals on

> > the waterfall. The noise is broad with the same appearance from 200

> > to 4300 Hz.

> >

> >

> >

> > I did receive a note from one other ham who experienced the same

thing > > so makes me think it is not my setup alone but one of those

> > intermittent things that we may never find. When it comes back I

will > > try to document the conditions that seem to trigger it.

> >

> >

> >

> > Les

> >

> >

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > *From:* multipsk@yahoogroup s.com

[mailto:multipsk@yahoogroup s.com]*On > > Behalf Of *Patrick Lindecker

> > *Sent:* Friday,

(Message over 64 KB, truncated)







----------------------------

#2088 Nov 11, 2006

 ----- Original Message -----From:Les(VE6OG)To: multipsk@yahoogroups.comSent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 1:42AMSubject: RE: [multipsk] Noise on MFSKmode



Hi Patrick, I havetried many tests to determine the origin of the noise including turning offthe radio turning down soundcard volume controls and shutting off all otherrunning applications and nothing seems to affect it.  Youare correct that it is not specified to MFSK and not specific to version 4.1.1as I have seen it in other versions. 

My noise floornormally shows blue with some yellow and when this noise comes on it is yellowwith some orange, masking any signals on the waterfall.  Thenoise is broad with the same appearance from 200 to 4300Hz.

I did receive a notefrom one other ham who experienced the same thing so makes me think it is notmy setup alone but one of those intermittent things that we may neverfind.  When it comes back I will try to document theconditions that seem to trigger it.

Les

-----OriginalMessage-----From:multipsk@yahoogroup s.com[mailto:multipsk@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of PatrickLindeckerSent: Friday,November 10, 2006 3:09 PMTo:multipsk@yahoogroup s.comSubject: Re: [multipsk] Noise on MFSKmode

HelloLes,

RR forall.

I have tried theMFSK16 coding/decoding. There is nothing special and the phase iscontinous...

Try to switch offthe XCVR and see if you have still noise. If so, it's some noise from thecomputer. If not, there is no specific problem.Possibly, it can bea saturation of the signal but I suppose that you control that it is notsaturated.

Note: the waterfallprogram is independant of the mode (except for SSTV and MT63). So there is nospecificity toMFSK16.

73Patrick

----- OriginalMessage ----- From: Les(VE6OG) To: multipsk@yahoogroup s.com

Sent: Friday, November10, 2006 2:56 AMSubject: [multipsk] Noise onMFSK mode

Just to add my observation, I have noticed that when I am inMFSK mode that I get an intermittent noise on the waterfall that masks thenormal receiver noise floor.  This noise is broadband extending out past4.3 kHz. My testing suggests the software and not the soundcard generatesit.  Has anyone else observed this or is it just myinstallation? ?



----------------------------

#2089 Nov 11, 2006

Hello Les, RR for all. Could you pull (position "Off") the button "AGC",the AGC being the "Automatic Gain Control" for the waterfall and test it again.The apparent noise can vary according to the force of the signal due by thevariable amplification. 73Patrick  ----- Original Message -----From:Les(VE6OG)To: multipsk@yahoogroups.comSent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 1:42AMSubject: RE: [multipsk] Noise on MFSKmode



Hi Patrick, I havetried many tests to determine the origin of the noise including turning offthe radio turning down soundcard volume controls and shutting off all otherrunning applications and nothing seems to affect it.  Youare correct that it is not specified to MFSK and not specific to version 4.1.1as I have seen it in other versions. 

My noise floornormally shows blue with some yellow and when this noise comes on it is yellowwith some orange, masking any signals on the waterfall.  Thenoise is broad with the same appearance from 200 to 4300Hz.

I did receive a notefrom one other ham who experienced the same thing so makes me think it is notmy setup alone but one of those intermittent things that we may neverfind.  When it comes back I will try to document theconditions that seem to trigger it.

Les

-----OriginalMessage-----From:multipsk@yahoogroup s.com[mailto:multipsk@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of PatrickLindeckerSent: Friday,November 10, 2006 3:09 PMTo:multipsk@yahoogroup s.comSubject: Re: [multipsk] Noise on MFSKmode

HelloLes,

RR forall.

I have tried theMFSK16 coding/decoding. There is nothing special and the phase iscontinous...

Try to switch offthe XCVR and see if you have still noise. If so, it's some noise from thecomputer. If not, there is no specific problem.Possibly, it can bea saturation of the signal but I suppose that you control that it is notsaturated.

Note: the waterfallprogram is independant of the mode (except for SSTV and MT63). So there is nospecificity toMFSK16.

73Patrick

----- OriginalMessage ----- From: Les(VE6OG) To: multipsk@yahoogroup s.com

Sent: Friday, November10, 2006 2:56 AMSubject: [multipsk] Noise onMFSK mode

Just to add my observation, I have noticed that when I am inMFSK mode that I get an intermittent noise on the waterfall that masks thenormal receiver noise floor.  This noise is broadband extending out past4.3 kHz. My testing suggests the software and not the soundcard generatesit.  Has anyone else observed this or is it just myinstallation? ?



----------------------------

#2095 Nov 11, 2006

Hi Patrick,



I have seen a similar thing with MFSK16. It takes a specific but

common sequence to trigger it. Have Multipsk up in a full screen

window receiving in MFSK16 mode. Pop another window up over multipsk

for a few seconds. Minimize that window so MFSK16 is showing again.

Most times the waterfall scrolls yellow speckles and even the spectrum

display shows high level wide band noise. To clear the problem, I can

click on the waterfall, click the sound card button on and off, or

change operating modes.



The interesting part is that this does not occur if Multipsk is not

maximized and it has not happened in any other mode, not even MFSK8.



I am currently running the new 4.1.1 but this problem was seen in

previous versions. I am running Windows 2000 with all the latest updates.



Maybe this info will help narrow the search down.



Gary

N0GW





--- In multipsk@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Lindecker" f6cte@...> wrote:

>

> Hello Les,

>

> RR for all.

>

> Could you pull (position "Off") the button "AGC", the AGC being the

"Automatic Gain Control" for the waterfall and test it again. The

apparent noise can vary according to the force of the signal due by

the variable amplification.

>

> 73

> Patrick

>







----------------------------

#2101 Nov 11, 2006

Hello Gary, Strange behaviour. I've tried several times thesequence that you described but I did not get nothing special.

I suppose there is some interaction betweenMultipsk, Windows 2000 and the graphical driver. Has someone, with a PX XP, experienced suchbehaviour? 73Patrick      ----- Original Message -----From:grwescomTo: multipsk@yahoogroups.comSent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 3:57PMSubject: [multipsk] Re: Noise on MFSKmode

Hi Patrick,

I have seen a similar thing with MFSK16. It takes aspecific butcommon sequence to trigger it. Have Multipsk up in a fullscreenwindow receiving in MFSK16 mode. Pop another window up overmultipskfor a few seconds. Minimize that window so MFSK16 is showingagain. Most times the waterfall scrolls yellow speckles and even thespectrumdisplay shows high level wide band noise. To clear the problem, Icanclick on the waterfall, click the sound card button on and off,orchange operating modes.

The interesting part is that this doesnot occur if Multipsk is notmaximized and it has not happened in any othermode, not even MFSK8.

I am currently running the new 4.1.1 but thisproblem was seen inprevious versions. I am running Windows 2000 with allthe latest updates.

Maybe this info will help narrow the searchdown.

GaryN0GW

--- In multipsk@yahoogroup s.com,"Patrick Lindecker" f6cte@...> wrote:>> HelloLes,> > RR for all.> > Could you pull (position"Off") the button "AGC", the AGC being the"Automatic Gain Control" for thewaterfall and test it again. Theapparent noise can vary according to theforce of the signal due bythe variable amplification.> >73> Patrick>



----------------------------

#2106 Nov 11, 2006

Patrick,



That sounds likely to me. It is probably some minor problem with how

Windows 2000 changes program focus that kicks the sound card interface

into some strange mode. I guess we should all keep in mind that the

boys and girls at Redmond, Washington are not perfect. There are

strange quirks in their software also. I've been too lazy to upgrade

to XP. I suppose this is another reason I should find time to do that.



Thanks for the fabulous work you are doing on Multipsk Patrick.



Gary

N0GW

--- In multipsk@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Lindecker" f6cte@...> wrote:

>

> Hello Gary,

>

> Strange behaviour. I've tried several times the sequence that you

described but I did not get nothing special.

> I suppose there is some interaction between Multipsk, Windows 2000

and the graphical driver.

>

> Has someone, with a PX XP, experienced such behaviour?

>

> 73

> Patrick

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: grwescom

> To: multipsk@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 3:57 PM

> Subject: [multipsk] Re: Noise on MFSK mode

>

>

> Hi Patrick,

>

> I have seen a similar thing with MFSK16. It takes a specific but

> common sequence to trigger it. Have Multipsk up in a full screen

> window receiving in MFSK16 mode. Pop another window up over multipsk

> for a few seconds. Minimize that window so MFSK16 is showing again.

> Most times the waterfall scrolls yellow speckles and even the spectrum

> display shows high level wide band noise. To clear the problem, I can

> click on the waterfall, click the sound card button on and off, or

> change operating modes.

>

> The interesting part is that this does not occur if Multipsk is not

> maximized and it has not happened in any other mode, not even MFSK8.

>

> I am currently running the new 4.1.1 but this problem was seen in

> previous versions. I am running Windows 2000 with all the latest

updates.

>

> Maybe this info will help narrow the search down.

>

> Gary

> N0GW

>

> --- In multipsk@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Lindecker" f6cte@> wrote:

> >

> > Hello Les,

> >

> > RR for all.

> >

> > Could you pull (position "Off") the button "AGC", the AGC being the

> "Automatic Gain Control" for the waterfall and test it again. The

> apparent noise can vary according to the force of the signal due by

> the variable amplification.

> >

> > 73

> > Patrick

> >

>


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