Re: remote guide head temperature missing


Sep 15, 2010

 


----------------------------

#42777 Sep 15, 2010

I just installed my new remote guide head tonight but I have a problems it the way maxim is handling the cooling. After reading past posts, I have it configured as follows:



Camera 1:

- SBIG Universal

- Guide Chip: External Remote

- Dual Chip Mode



In this mode, I have two separate cameras (well, three if you count the internal guider). I have connected the water cooling system and it is running with no fan... set to -25C.



Since the Remote Guide Head doesn't have liquid cooling, how do I separately set the remote guide head's temperature and how can I monitor that?



Dave



----------------------------

#42780 Sep 15, 2010

I don't use water cooling, but the temp on RGH is always the same as the main

camera.

Howver, I don't believe there is any cooling on the RGH - there is no fan, it is

too small. Maybe I am wrong, but the reading means nothing.



Dale









---------------

From: mogulskier_groups mogulskier_groups@...>

To: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thu, September 16, 2010 7:02:01 AM

Subject: [MaxImDL] remote guide head temperature missing



.

I just installed my new remote guide head tonight but I have a problems it the

way maxim is handling the cooling. After reading past posts, I have it

configured as follows:



Camera 1:

- SBIG Universal

- Guide Chip: External Remote

- Dual Chip Mode



In this mode, I have two separate cameras (well, three if you count the internal

guider). I have connected the water cooling system and it is running with no

fan... set to -25C.





Since the Remote Guide Head doesn't have liquid cooling, how do I separately set

the remote guide head's temperature and how can I monitor that?



Dave















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#42781 Sep 16, 2010

In the SBIG RGH pdf, it says the following:

"The Remote Guide Head contains a cooled TC-237H..."



www.sbig.com/pdffiles/remote_guide_head_instructions.pdf



Nice try Dale. Are you SURE that the RGH temp is the same as the main camera?



Anyone else?



Dave

--- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, Dale Liebenberg dale.liebenberg@...> wrote:

>

> I don't use water cooling, but the temp on RGH is always the same as the main

> camera.

> Howver, I don't believe there is any cooling on the RGH - there is no fan, it is

> too small. Maybe I am wrong, but the reading means nothing.

>

> Dale

>

>

>

>

---------------

> From: mogulskier_groups mogulskier_groups@...>

> To: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Thu, September 16, 2010 7:02:01 AM

> Subject: [MaxImDL] remote guide head temperature missing

>

> ..

> I just installed my new remote guide head tonight but I have a problems it the

> way maxim is handling the cooling. After reading past posts, I have it

> configured as follows:

>

> Camera 1:

> - SBIG Universal

> - Guide Chip: External Remote

> - Dual Chip Mode

>

> In this mode, I have two separate cameras (well, three if you count the internal

> guider). I have connected the water cooling system and it is running with no

> fan... set to -25C.

>

>

> Since the Remote Guide Head doesn't have liquid cooling, how do I separately set

> the remote guide head's temperature and how can I monitor that?

>

> Dave

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



----------------------------

#42796 Sep 16, 2010

My RGH on my SBIG ST2000XM always reads the same as the main camera. On a side note, both temps bounce around about +-.4 deg C, is this normal for the camera ? or just the way maxIm monitors the temps?

Rex

--- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "mogulskier_groups" mogulskier_groups@...> wrote:

>

> In the SBIG RGH pdf, it says the following:

> "The Remote Guide Head contains a cooled TC-237H..."

>

> www.sbig.com/pdffiles/remote_guide_head_instructions.pdf

>

> Nice try Dale. Are you SURE that the RGH temp is the same as the main camera?

>

> Anyone else?

>

> Dave

>

> --- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, Dale Liebenberg dale.liebenberg@> wrote:

> >

> > I don't use water cooling, but the temp on RGH is always the same as the main

> > camera.

> > Howver, I don't believe there is any cooling on the RGH - there is no fan, it is

> > too small. Maybe I am wrong, but the reading means nothing.

> >

> > Dale

> >

> >

> >

> >

---------------

> > From: mogulskier_groups mogulskier_groups@>

> > To: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com

> > Sent: Thu, September 16, 2010 7:02:01 AM

> > Subject: [MaxImDL] remote guide head temperature missing

> >

> > ..

> > I just installed my new remote guide head tonight but I have a problems it the

> > way maxim is handling the cooling. After reading past posts, I have it

> > configured as follows:

> >

> > Camera 1:

> > - SBIG Universal

> > - Guide Chip: External Remote

> > - Dual Chip Mode

> >

> > In this mode, I have two separate cameras (well, three if you count the internal

> > guider). I have connected the water cooling system and it is running with no

> > fan... set to -25C.

> >

> >

> > Since the Remote Guide Head doesn't have liquid cooling, how do I separately set

> > the remote guide head's temperature and how can I monitor that?

> >

> > Dave

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>







----------------------------

#42803 Sep 16, 2010

--- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "mogulskier_groups" mogulskier_groups@...> wrote: > how do I separately set the remote guide head's temperature

> and how can I monitor that?



This question is very timely, since it was just yesterday that I discovered that exposures taken with the Guide tab don't get CCD_TEMP or SET-TEMP added to their FITS headers. (The significance of this is that "Full Calibration" may not use the proper dark frame, which is A Bad Thing.) I am in the process of correcting this.



This applies to all autoguiders, not just the "tracking CCDs" in SBIG dual-chip cameras and/or remote guide heads.



So the answer to your question is: at present, you can't. MaxIm DL's "SBIG Universal" and "SBIG w/AO" plug-ins use a function of SBIGUDRV.DLL called Query Temperature Status (standard mode). This returns a structure called QueryTemperatureStatusParams which contains:

1. a flag saying if temperature regulation is enabled

2. the CCD setpoint temperature

3. the level of power being applied to the thermoelectric cooler

4. the CCD thermistor reading

5. the ambient thermistor reading



Note that fourth item: SBIG doesn't say which CCD it applies to, but I'm sure it's safe to assume it's the imaging sensor.



All is not lost, however. Query Temperature Status also has an "advanced" mode which returns more complete information:

1. a flag saying if temperature regulation is enabled

2. a flag saying if the fan is enabled

3. the CCD setpoint temperature

4. the imaging CCD temperature in degrees .C

5. the tracking CCD temperature in degrees .C

6. the external tracking CCD temperature in .C

7. the ambient camera temperature in .C

8. percent power applied to the imaging CCD TE cooler

9. percent power applied to the tracking CCD TE cooler

10. percent power applied to the external tracking TE cooler

11. imaging CCD heatsink temperature in .C

12. percent power applied to the fan



My suspicion is that this variant may not have existed when we first wrote the SBIG plug-ins. At any rate, I will be enhancing them to use this alternate version so that autoguider exposures can report the correct temperature. HOWEVER: there is no way to specify a different temperature setpoint for the tracking CCD (either internal or remote guide head) from that for the imaging CCD. Indeed, as per the following statement from the SBIG Universal Driver/Library documentation, ST-L remote guide heads habe unregulated coolers:

> The cooling in the ST-L's Remote Guiding Head mimics the internal

> cooling. While the Remote Guiding Head has unregulated cooling the

> cooling is enable whenever internal TE power is above 0%.



Hilderic Browne

Diffraction Limited



----------------------------

#42883 Sep 23, 2010

Very interesting Hilderic. And, as you say, the timing of this is interesting (though not to my benefit ;-)



I just added the RGH the same night that I added liquid cooling. Without totally separating the controls and providing a set temp for the external guider, how could a non-liquid cooled guider ever keep the same temp as a liquid cooled internal sensor?



Look like SBIG needs to do some work on this.



Perhaps a new QueryTemperatureAdvancedEx() function that handles the differences. I wonder how the STX is handling this?



dave

--- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "Hilderic Browne" hbrowne@...> wrote:

>

> --- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "mogulskier_groups" mogulskier_groups@> wrote:

> > how do I separately set the remote guide head's temperature

> > and how can I monitor that?

>

> This question is very timely, since it was just yesterday that I discovered that exposures taken with the Guide tab don't get CCD_TEMP or SET-TEMP added to their FITS headers. (The significance of this is that "Full Calibration" may not use the proper dark frame, which is A Bad Thing.) I am in the process of correcting this.

>

> This applies to all autoguiders, not just the "tracking CCDs" in SBIG dual-chip cameras and/or remote guide heads.

>

> So the answer to your question is: at present, you can't. MaxIm DL's "SBIG Universal" and "SBIG w/AO" plug-ins use a function of SBIGUDRV.DLL called Query Temperature Status (standard mode). This returns a structure called QueryTemperatureStatusParams which contains:

> 1. a flag saying if temperature regulation is enabled

> 2. the CCD setpoint temperature

> 3. the level of power being applied to the thermoelectric cooler

> 4. the CCD thermistor reading

> 5. the ambient thermistor reading

>

> Note that fourth item: SBIG doesn't say which CCD it applies to, but I'm sure it's safe to assume it's the imaging sensor.

>

> All is not lost, however. Query Temperature Status also has an "advanced" mode which returns more complete information:

> 1. a flag saying if temperature regulation is enabled

> 2. a flag saying if the fan is enabled

> 3. the CCD setpoint temperature

> 4. the imaging CCD temperature in degrees .C

> 5. the tracking CCD temperature in degrees .C

> 6. the external tracking CCD temperature in .C

> 7. the ambient camera temperature in .C

> 8. percent power applied to the imaging CCD TE cooler

> 9. percent power applied to the tracking CCD TE cooler

> 10. percent power applied to the external tracking TE cooler

> 11. imaging CCD heatsink temperature in .C

> 12. percent power applied to the fan

>

> My suspicion is that this variant may not have existed when we first wrote the SBIG plug-ins. At any rate, I will be enhancing them to use this alternate version so that autoguider exposures can report the correct temperature. HOWEVER: there is no way to specify a different temperature setpoint for the tracking CCD (either internal or remote guide head) from that for the imaging CCD. Indeed, as per the following statement from the SBIG Universal Driver/Library documentation, ST-L remote guide heads habe unregulated coolers:

>

> > The cooling in the ST-L's Remote Guiding Head mimics the internal

> > cooling. While the Remote Guiding Head has unregulated cooling the

> > cooling is enable whenever internal TE power is above 0%.

>

> Hilderic Browne

> Diffraction Limited

>







----------------------------

#42887 Sep 23, 2010

Dave:





It doesn't really matter if the guider is cooled the same as the main chip.

Many people, including myself have used the Remote Guide Head for years

without problems. Some people take dark frames with the guider and make

a master dark frame, calibrating the guider image so there are no hot pixels

to confuse the software, some don't.





Kent Kirkley











-----Original Message-----

From: mogulskier_groups mogulskier_groups@...>

To: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thu, Sep 23, 2010 9:05 pm

Subject: [MaxImDL] Re: remote guide head temperature missing





Very interesting Hilderic. And, as you say, the timing of this is interesting

(though not to my benefit ;-)



I just added the RGH the same night that I added liquid cooling. Without

totally separating the controls and providing a set temp for the external

guider, how could a non-liquid cooled guider ever keep the same temp as a liquid

cooled internal sensor?



Look like SBIG needs to do some work on this.



Perhaps a new QueryTemperatureAdvancedEx() function that handles the

differences. I wonder how the STX is handling this?



dave

--- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "Hilderic Browne" hbrowne@...> wrote:

>

> --- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "mogulskier_groups" mogulskier_groups@>

wrote:

> > how do I separately set the remote guide head's temperature

> > and how can I monitor that?

>

> This question is very timely, since it was just yesterday that I discovered

that exposures taken with the Guide tab don't get CCD_TEMP or SET-TEMP added to

their FITS headers. (The significance of this is that "Full Calibration" may

not use the proper dark frame, which is A Bad Thing.) I am in the process of

correcting this.

>

> This applies to all autoguiders, not just the "tracking CCDs" in SBIG

dual-chip cameras and/or remote guide heads.

>

> So the answer to your question is: at present, you can't. MaxIm DL's "SBIG

Universal" and "SBIG w/AO" plug-ins use a function of SBIGUDRV.DLL called Query

Temperature Status (standard mode). This returns a structure called

QueryTemperatureStatusParams which contains:

> 1. a flag saying if temperature regulation is enabled

> 2. the CCD setpoint temperature

> 3. the level of power being applied to the thermoelectric cooler

> 4. the CCD thermistor reading

> 5. the ambient thermistor reading

>

> Note that fourth item: SBIG doesn't say which CCD it applies to, but I'm sure

it's safe to assume it's the imaging sensor.

>

> All is not lost, however. Query Temperature Status also has an "advanced"

mode which returns more complete information:

> 1. a flag saying if temperature regulation is enabled

> 2. a flag saying if the fan is enabled

> 3. the CCD setpoint temperature

> 4. the imaging CCD temperature in degrees .C

> 5. the tracking CCD temperature in degrees .C

> 6. the external tracking CCD temperature in .C

> 7. the ambient camera temperature in .C

> 8. percent power applied to the imaging CCD TE cooler

> 9. percent power applied to the tracking CCD TE cooler

> 10. percent power applied to the external tracking TE cooler

> 11. imaging CCD heatsink temperature in .C

> 12. percent power applied to the fan

>

> My suspicion is that this variant may not have existed when we first wrote the

SBIG plug-ins. At any rate, I will be enhancing them to use this alternate

version so that autoguider exposures can report the correct temperature.

HOWEVER: there is no way to specify a different temperature setpoint for the

tracking CCD (either internal or remote guide head) from that for the imaging

CCD. Indeed, as per the following statement from the SBIG Universal

Driver/Library documentation, ST-L remote guide heads habe unregulated coolers:

>

> > The cooling in the ST-L's Remote Guiding Head mimics the internal

> > cooling. While the Remote Guiding Head has unregulated cooling the

> > cooling is enable whenever internal TE power is above 0%.

>

> Hilderic Browne

> Diffraction Limited

>









---------------



Yahoo! Groups Links













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#42892 Sep 24, 2010

I'm getting really crappy results from my RGH. I'm guessing that maxim is trying to calibrate them with bad dark frames. It works best if I turn off Full Calibration in the guider options. Simple Calibration works fine, but it's a waste of time.



And it does matter in order to avoid guiding on hot pixels.



After all, that's what the shutter and TEC in the RGH are for?



Dave

--- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, kgkirkley@... wrote:

>

> Dave:

>

>

> It doesn't really matter if the guider is cooled the same as the main chip.

> Many people, including myself have used the Remote Guide Head for years

> without problems. Some people take dark frames with the guider and make

> a master dark frame, calibrating the guider image so there are no hot pixels

> to confuse the software, some don't.

>

>

> Kent Kirkley

>

>

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: mogulskier_groups mogulskier_groups@...>

> To: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Thu, Sep 23, 2010 9:05 pm

> Subject: [MaxImDL] Re: remote guide head temperature missing

>

>

> Very interesting Hilderic. And, as you say, the timing of this is interesting

> (though not to my benefit ;-)

>

> I just added the RGH the same night that I added liquid cooling. Without

> totally separating the controls and providing a set temp for the external

> guider, how could a non-liquid cooled guider ever keep the same temp as a liquid

> cooled internal sensor?

>

> Look like SBIG needs to do some work on this.

>

> Perhaps a new QueryTemperatureAdvancedEx() function that handles the

> differences. I wonder how the STX is handling this?

>

> dave

>

> --- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "Hilderic Browne" hbrowne@> wrote:

> >

> > --- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "mogulskier_groups" mogulskier_groups@>

> wrote:

> > > how do I separately set the remote guide head's temperature

> > > and how can I monitor that?

> >

> > This question is very timely, since it was just yesterday that I discovered

> that exposures taken with the Guide tab don't get CCD_TEMP or SET-TEMP added to

> their FITS headers. (The significance of this is that "Full Calibration" may

> not use the proper dark frame, which is A Bad Thing.) I am in the process of

> correcting this.

> >

> > This applies to all autoguiders, not just the "tracking CCDs" in SBIG

> dual-chip cameras and/or remote guide heads.

> >

> > So the answer to your question is: at present, you can't. MaxIm DL's "SBIG

> Universal" and "SBIG w/AO" plug-ins use a function of SBIGUDRV.DLL called Query

> Temperature Status (standard mode). This returns a structure called

> QueryTemperatureStatusParams which contains:

> > 1. a flag saying if temperature regulation is enabled

> > 2. the CCD setpoint temperature

> > 3. the level of power being applied to the thermoelectric cooler

> > 4. the CCD thermistor reading

> > 5. the ambient thermistor reading

> >

> > Note that fourth item: SBIG doesn't say which CCD it applies to, but I'm sure

> it's safe to assume it's the imaging sensor.

> >

> > All is not lost, however. Query Temperature Status also has an "advanced"

> mode which returns more complete information:

> > 1. a flag saying if temperature regulation is enabled

> > 2. a flag saying if the fan is enabled

> > 3. the CCD setpoint temperature

> > 4. the imaging CCD temperature in degrees ..C

> > 5. the tracking CCD temperature in degrees ..C

> > 6. the external tracking CCD temperature in ..C

> > 7. the ambient camera temperature in ..C

> > 8. percent power applied to the imaging CCD TE cooler

> > 9. percent power applied to the tracking CCD TE cooler

> > 10. percent power applied to the external tracking TE cooler

> > 11. imaging CCD heatsink temperature in ..C

> > 12. percent power applied to the fan

> >

> > My suspicion is that this variant may not have existed when we first wrote the

> SBIG plug-ins. At any rate, I will be enhancing them to use this alternate

> version so that autoguider exposures can report the correct temperature.

> HOWEVER: there is no way to specify a different temperature setpoint for the

> tracking CCD (either internal or remote guide head) from that for the imaging

> CCD. Indeed, as per the following statement from the SBIG Universal

> Driver/Library documentation, ST-L remote guide heads habe unregulated coolers:

> >

> > > The cooling in the ST-L's Remote Guiding Head mimics the internal

> > > cooling. While the Remote Guiding Head has unregulated cooling the

> > > cooling is enable whenever internal TE power is above 0%.

> >

> > Hilderic Browne

> > Diffraction Limited

> >

>

>

>

>

---------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>







----------------------------

#42894 Sep 24, 2010

I use the RGH with an STL-11000 and don't calibrate the guide image at all, either simple dark or a master dark. Yes, there are hot pixels but since I choose which star (and not a hot pixel) that is to be the guide star, they aren't a problem.



Kent Kirkley

















-----Original Message-----

From: mogulskier_groups mogulskier_groups@...>

To: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:44 am

Subject: [MaxImDL] Re: remote guide head temperature missing





I'm getting really crappy results from my RGH. I'm guessing that maxim is

trying to calibrate them with bad dark frames. It works best if I turn off Full

Calibration in the guider options. Simple Calibration works fine, but it's a

waste of time.



And it does matter in order to avoid guiding on hot pixels.



After all, that's what the shutter and TEC in the RGH are for?



Dave

--- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, kgkirkley@... wrote:

>

> Dave:

>

>

> It doesn't really matter if the guider is cooled the same as the main chip.

> Many people, including myself have used the Remote Guide Head for years

> without problems. Some people take dark frames with the guider and make

> a master dark frame, calibrating the guider image so there are no hot pixels

> to confuse the software, some don't.

>

>

> Kent Kirkley

>

>

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: mogulskier_groups mogulskier_groups@...>

> To: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Thu, Sep 23, 2010 9:05 pm

> Subject: [MaxImDL] Re: remote guide head temperature missing

>

>

> Very interesting Hilderic. And, as you say, the timing of this is interesting



> (though not to my benefit ;-)

>

> I just added the RGH the same night that I added liquid cooling. Without

> totally separating the controls and providing a set temp for the external

> guider, how could a non-liquid cooled guider ever keep the same temp as a

liquid

> cooled internal sensor?

>

> Look like SBIG needs to do some work on this.

>

> Perhaps a new QueryTemperatureAdvancedEx() function that handles the

> differences. I wonder how the STX is handling this?

>

> dave

>

> --- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "Hilderic Browne" hbrowne@> wrote:

> >

> > --- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "mogulskier_groups" mogulskier_groups@>

> wrote:

> > > how do I separately set the remote guide head's temperature

> > > and how can I monitor that?

> >

> > This question is very timely, since it was just yesterday that I discovered

> that exposures taken with the Guide tab don't get CCD_TEMP or SET-TEMP added

to

> their FITS headers. (The significance of this is that "Full Calibration" may

> not use the proper dark frame, which is A Bad Thing.) I am in the process of

> correcting this.

> >

> > This applies to all autoguiders, not just the "tracking CCDs" in SBIG

> dual-chip cameras and/or remote guide heads.

> >

> > So the answer to your question is: at present, you can't. MaxIm DL's "SBIG

> Universal" and "SBIG w/AO" plug-ins use a function of SBIGUDRV.DLL called

Query

> Temperature Status (standard mode). This returns a structure called

> QueryTemperatureStatusParams which contains:

> > 1. a flag saying if temperature regulation is enabled

> > 2. the CCD setpoint temperature

> > 3. the level of power being applied to the thermoelectric cooler

> > 4. the CCD thermistor reading

> > 5. the ambient thermistor reading

> >

> > Note that fourth item: SBIG doesn't say which CCD it applies to, but I'm

sure

> it's safe to assume it's the imaging sensor.

> >

> > All is not lost, however. Query Temperature Status also has an "advanced"

> mode which returns more complete information:

> > 1. a flag saying if temperature regulation is enabled

> > 2. a flag saying if the fan is enabled

> > 3. the CCD setpoint temperature

> > 4. the imaging CCD temperature in degrees ..C

> > 5. the tracking CCD temperature in degrees ..C

> > 6. the external tracking CCD temperature in ..C

> > 7. the ambient camera temperature in ..C

> > 8. percent power applied to the imaging CCD TE cooler

> > 9. percent power applied to the tracking CCD TE cooler

> > 10. percent power applied to the external tracking TE cooler

> > 11. imaging CCD heatsink temperature in ..C

> > 12. percent power applied to the fan

> >

> > My suspicion is that this variant may not have existed when we first wrote

the

> SBIG plug-ins. At any rate, I will be enhancing them to use this alternate

> version so that autoguider exposures can report the correct temperature.

> HOWEVER: there is no way to specify a different temperature setpoint for the

> tracking CCD (either internal or remote guide head) from that for the imaging

> CCD. Indeed, as per the following statement from the SBIG Universal

> Driver/Library documentation, ST-L remote guide heads habe unregulated

coolers:

> >

> > > The cooling in the ST-L's Remote Guiding Head mimics the internal

> > > cooling. While the Remote Guiding Head has unregulated cooling the

> > > cooling is enable whenever internal TE power is above 0%.

> >

> > Hilderic Browne

> > Diffraction Limited

> >

>

>

>

>

---------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>









---------------



Yahoo! Groups Links













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#42895 Sep 24, 2010

Kent,



How do you prevent the star from moving to a hot pixel ?

This could happen if you dither or a sudden wind gust.



Larry





kgkirkley@... wrote: > I use the RGH with an STL-11000 and don't calibrate the guide image at all, either simple dark or a master dark. Yes, there are hot pixels but since I choose which star (and not a hot pixel) that is to be the guide star, they aren't a problem.

>

> Kent Kirkley

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: mogulskier_groups mogulskier_groups@...>

> To: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:44 am

> Subject: [MaxImDL] Re: remote guide head temperature missing

>

>

> I'm getting really crappy results from my RGH. I'm guessing that maxim is

> trying to calibrate them with bad dark frames. It works best if I turn off Full

> Calibration in the guider options. Simple Calibration works fine, but it's a

> waste of time.

>

> And it does matter in order to avoid guiding on hot pixels.

>

> After all, that's what the shutter and TEC in the RGH are for?

>

> Dave

>

> --- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, kgkirkley@... wrote:

>

>> Dave:

>>

>>

>> It doesn't really matter if the guider is cooled the same as the main chip.

>> Many people, including myself have used the Remote Guide Head for years

>> without problems. Some people take dark frames with the guider and make

>> a master dark frame, calibrating the guider image so there are no hot pixels

>> to confuse the software, some don't.

>>

>>

>> Kent Kirkley

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: mogulskier_groups mogulskier_groups@...>

>> To: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com

>> Sent: Thu, Sep 23, 2010 9:05 pm

>> Subject: [MaxImDL] Re: remote guide head temperature missing

>>

>>

>> Very interesting Hilderic. And, as you say, the timing of this is interesting

>>

>

>

>> (though not to my benefit ;-)

>>

>> I just added the RGH the same night that I added liquid cooling. Without

>> totally separating the controls and providing a set temp for the external

>> guider, how could a non-liquid cooled guider ever keep the same temp as a

>>

> liquid

>

>> cooled internal sensor?

>>

>> Look like SBIG needs to do some work on this.

>>

>> Perhaps a new QueryTemperatureAdvancedEx() function that handles the

>> differences. I wonder how the STX is handling this?

>>

>> dave

>>

>> --- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "Hilderic Browne" hbrowne@> wrote:

>>

>>> --- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "mogulskier_groups" mogulskier_groups@>

>>>

>> wrote:

>>

>>>> how do I separately set the remote guide head's temperature

>>>> and how can I monitor that?

>>>>

>>> This question is very timely, since it was just yesterday that I discovered

>>>

>> that exposures taken with the Guide tab don't get CCD_TEMP or SET-TEMP added

>>

> to

>

>> their FITS headers. (The significance of this is that "Full Calibration" may

>> not use the proper dark frame, which is A Bad Thing.) I am in the process of

>> correcting this.

>>

>>> This applies to all autoguiders, not just the "tracking CCDs" in SBIG

>>>

>> dual-chip cameras and/or remote guide heads.

>>

>>> So the answer to your question is: at present, you can't. MaxIm DL's "SBIG

>>>

>> Universal" and "SBIG w/AO" plug-ins use a function of SBIGUDRV.DLL called

>>

> Query

>

>> Temperature Status (standard mode). This returns a structure called

>> QueryTemperatureStatusParams which contains:

>>

>>> 1. a flag saying if temperature regulation is enabled

>>> 2. the CCD setpoint temperature

>>> 3. the level of power being applied to the thermoelectric cooler

>>> 4. the CCD thermistor reading

>>> 5. the ambient thermistor reading

>>>

>>> Note that fourth item: SBIG doesn't say which CCD it applies to, but I'm

>>>

> sure

>

>> it's safe to assume it's the imaging sensor.

>>

>>> All is not lost, however. Query Temperature Status also has an "advanced"

>>>

>> mode which returns more complete information:

>>

>>> 1. a flag saying if temperature regulation is enabled

>>> 2. a flag saying if the fan is enabled

>>> 3. the CCD setpoint temperature

>>> 4. the imaging CCD temperature in degrees ..C

>>> 5. the tracking CCD temperature in degrees ..C

>>> 6. the external tracking CCD temperature in ..C

>>> 7. the ambient camera temperature in ..C

>>> 8. percent power applied to the imaging CCD TE cooler

>>> 9. percent power applied to the tracking CCD TE cooler

>>> 10. percent power applied to the external tracking TE cooler

>>> 11. imaging CCD heatsink temperature in ..C

>>> 12. percent power applied to the fan

>>>

>>> My suspicion is that this variant may not have existed when we first wrote

>>>

> the

>

>> SBIG plug-ins. At any rate, I will be enhancing them to use this alternate

>> version so that autoguider exposures can report the correct temperature.

>> HOWEVER: there is no way to specify a different temperature setpoint for the

>> tracking CCD (either internal or remote guide head) from that for the imaging

>> CCD. Indeed, as per the following statement from the SBIG Universal

>> Driver/Library documentation, ST-L remote guide heads habe unregulated

>>

> coolers:

>

>>>> The cooling in the ST-L's Remote Guiding Head mimics the internal

>>>> cooling. While the Remote Guiding Head has unregulated cooling the

>>>> cooling is enable whenever internal TE power is above 0%.

>>>>

>>> Hilderic Browne

>>> Diffraction Limited

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

---------------

>>

>> Yahoo! Groups Links

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

---------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

---------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#42910 Sep 25, 2010

Larry:



In my case, I use the efinder with the Remote Guide Head and there are usually many guide stars available. I am careful to choose the brightest and have very few cases of the software

jumping to a hot pixel. You can't really dither with the efinder-remote guide head combination due to the difference in imaging and guiding focal lengths.



When I use the internal guide chip there are fewer guides stars available but I do use dithering but

have had few instances of it 'jumping' to a hot pixel. Again, I choose the brightest and most

solitary star available.



Kent

















-----Original Message-----

From: Lawrence D. Lopez lopez@...>

To: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Fri, Sep 24, 2010 3:30 pm

Subject: Re: [MaxImDL] Re: remote guide head temperature missing





Kent,



How do you prevent the star from moving to a hot pixel ?

This could happen if you dither or a sudden wind gust.



Larry





kgkirkley@... wrote: > I use the RGH with an STL-11000 and don't calibrate the guide image at all,

either simple dark or a master dark. Yes, there are hot pixels but since I

choose which star (and not a hot pixel) that is to be the guide star, they

aren't a problem. >

> Kent Kirkley

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: mogulskier_groups mogulskier_groups@...>

> To: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Fri, Sep 24, 2010 11:44 am

> Subject: [MaxImDL] Re: remote guide head temperature missing

>

>

> I'm getting really crappy results from my RGH. I'm guessing that maxim is

> trying to calibrate them with bad dark frames. It works best if I turn off

Full > Calibration in the guider options. Simple Calibration works fine, but it's a

> waste of time.

>

> And it does matter in order to avoid guiding on hot pixels.

>

> After all, that's what the shutter and TEC in the RGH are for?

>

> Dave

>

> --- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, kgkirkley@... wrote:

>

>> Dave:

>>

>>

>> It doesn't really matter if the guider is cooled the same as the main chip.

>> Many people, including myself have used the Remote Guide Head for years

>> without problems. Some people take dark frames with the guider and make

>> a master dark frame, calibrating the guider image so there are no hot pixels

>> to confuse the software, some don't.

>>

>>

>> Kent Kirkley

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: mogulskier_groups mogulskier_groups@...>

>> To: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com

>> Sent: Thu, Sep 23, 2010 9:05 pm

>> Subject: [MaxImDL] Re: remote guide head temperature missing

>>

>>

>> Very interesting Hilderic. And, as you say, the timing of this is

interesting >>

>

>

>> (though not to my benefit ;-)

>>

>> I just added the RGH the same night that I added liquid cooling. Without

>> totally separating the controls and providing a set temp for the external

>> guider, how could a non-liquid cooled guider ever keep the same temp as a

>>

> liquid

>

>> cooled internal sensor?

>>

>> Look like SBIG needs to do some work on this.

>>

>> Perhaps a new QueryTemperatureAdvancedEx() function that handles the

>> differences. I wonder how the STX is handling this?

>>

>> dave

>>

>> --- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "Hilderic Browne" hbrowne@> wrote:

>>

>>> --- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "mogulskier_groups" mogulskier_groups@>

>>>

>> wrote:

>>

>>>> how do I separately set the remote guide head's temperature

>>>> and how can I monitor that?

>>>>

>>> This question is very timely, since it was just yesterday that I discovered

>>>

>> that exposures taken with the Guide tab don't get CCD_TEMP or SET-TEMP added

>>

> to

>

>> their FITS headers. (The significance of this is that "Full Calibration" may



>> not use the proper dark frame, which is A Bad Thing.) I am in the process of



>> correcting this.

>>

>>> This applies to all autoguiders, not just the "tracking CCDs" in SBIG

>>>

>> dual-chip cameras and/or remote guide heads.

>>

>>> So the answer to your question is: at present, you can't. MaxIm DL's "SBIG

>>>

>> Universal" and "SBIG w/AO" plug-ins use a function of SBIGUDRV.DLL called

>>

> Query

>

>> Temperature Status (standard mode). This returns a structure called

>> QueryTemperatureStatusParams which contains:

>>

>>> 1. a flag saying if temperature regulation is enabled

>>> 2. the CCD setpoint temperature

>>> 3. the level of power being applied to the thermoelectric cooler

>>> 4. the CCD thermistor reading

>>> 5. the ambient thermistor reading

>>>

>>> Note that fourth item: SBIG doesn't say which CCD it applies to, but I'm

>>>

> sure

>

>> it's safe to assume it's the imaging sensor.

>>

>>> All is not lost, however. Query Temperature Status also has an "advanced"

>>>

>> mode which returns more complete information:

>>

>>> 1. a flag saying if temperature regulation is enabled

>>> 2. a flag saying if the fan is enabled

>>> 3. the CCD setpoint temperature

>>> 4. the imaging CCD temperature in degrees ..C

>>> 5. the tracking CCD temperature in degrees ..C

>>> 6. the external tracking CCD temperature in ..C

>>> 7. the ambient camera temperature in ..C

>>> 8. percent power applied to the imaging CCD TE cooler

>>> 9. percent power applied to the tracking CCD TE cooler

>>> 10. percent power applied to the external tracking TE cooler

>>> 11. imaging CCD heatsink temperature in ..C

>>> 12. percent power applied to the fan

>>>

>>> My suspicion is that this variant may not have existed when we first wrote

>>>

> the

>

>> SBIG plug-ins. At any rate, I will be enhancing them to use this alternate

>> version so that autoguider exposures can report the correct temperature.

>> HOWEVER: there is no way to specify a different temperature setpoint for the

>> tracking CCD (either internal or remote guide head) from that for the imaging



>> CCD. Indeed, as per the following statement from the SBIG Universal

>> Driver/Library documentation, ST-L remote guide heads habe unregulated

>>

> coolers:

>

>>>> The cooling in the ST-L's Remote Guiding Head mimics the internal

>>>> cooling. While the Remote Guiding Head has unregulated cooling the

>>>> cooling is enable whenever internal TE power is above 0%.

>>>>

>>> Hilderic Browne

>>> Diffraction Limited

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

---------------

>>

>> Yahoo! Groups Links

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

---------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

---------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







---------------



Yahoo! Groups Links













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#42913 Sep 26, 2010

I got a response on this from SBIG on the SBIG forum. They are saying that, no matter what the set temp for the main imager is, the rgh runs at 100%. I think they need to revisit their approach on the software.



If the ambient temp is, say 95F at dusk, and 38F at sunrise (a real imaging session of mine in AZ), at the beginning of a run with simple autodark on the guider would take a dark for the guider in the beginning and would be subtracted throughout the restof the run. The SNR would get progressively worse as the aggressive darks would subtract the high amount of noise from the images when the temp is lower.



I wonder if this is why some people report (including me) that they experience that after a while in an imaging session, the guider goes nuts?



Dave

--- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "Hilderic Browne" hbrowne@...> wrote:

>

> --- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "mogulskier_groups" mogulskier_groups@> wrote:

> > how do I separately set the remote guide head's temperature

> > and how can I monitor that?

>

> This question is very timely, since it was just yesterday that I discovered that exposures taken with the Guide tab don't get CCD_TEMP or SET-TEMP added to their FITS headers. (The significance of this is that "Full Calibration" may not use the proper dark frame, which is A Bad Thing.) I am in the process of correcting this.

>

> This applies to all autoguiders, not just the "tracking CCDs" in SBIG dual-chip cameras and/or remote guide heads.

>

> So the answer to your question is: at present, you can't. MaxIm DL's "SBIG Universal" and "SBIG w/AO" plug-ins use a function of SBIGUDRV.DLL called Query Temperature Status (standard mode). This returns a structure called QueryTemperatureStatusParams which contains:

> 1. a flag saying if temperature regulation is enabled

> 2. the CCD setpoint temperature

> 3. the level of power being applied to the thermoelectric cooler

> 4. the CCD thermistor reading

> 5. the ambient thermistor reading

>

> Note that fourth item: SBIG doesn't say which CCD it applies to, but I'm sure it's safe to assume it's the imaging sensor.

>

> All is not lost, however. Query Temperature Status also has an "advanced" mode which returns more complete information:

> 1. a flag saying if temperature regulation is enabled

> 2. a flag saying if the fan is enabled

> 3. the CCD setpoint temperature

> 4. the imaging CCD temperature in degrees .C

> 5. the tracking CCD temperature in degrees .C

> 6. the external tracking CCD temperature in .C

> 7. the ambient camera temperature in .C

> 8. percent power applied to the imaging CCD TE cooler

> 9. percent power applied to the tracking CCD TE cooler

> 10. percent power applied to the external tracking TE cooler

> 11. imaging CCD heatsink temperature in .C

> 12. percent power applied to the fan

>

> My suspicion is that this variant may not have existed when we first wrote the SBIG plug-ins. At any rate, I will be enhancing them to use this alternate version so that autoguider exposures can report the correct temperature. HOWEVER: there is no way to specify a different temperature setpoint for the tracking CCD (either internal or remote guide head) from that for the imaging CCD. Indeed, as per the following statement from the SBIG Universal Driver/Library documentation, ST-L remote guide heads habe unregulated coolers:

>

> > The cooling in the ST-L's Remote Guiding Head mimics the internal

> > cooling. While the Remote Guiding Head has unregulated cooling the

> > cooling is enable whenever internal TE power is above 0%.

>

> Hilderic Browne

> Diffraction Limited

>



----------------------------

#42944 Sep 30, 2010

I wonder the same thing. Perhaps they do have the same problem.

--- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "William R. Mattil" wrmattil@...> wrote:

>

> On 9/26/2010 5:58 AM, mogulskier_groups wrote:

> > I got a response on this from SBIG on the SBIG forum. They are saying that, no matter what the set temp for the main imager is, the rgh runs at 100%. I think they need to revisit their approach on the software.

> >

> >

> >

> > I wonder if this is why some people report (including me) that they experience that after a while in an imaging session, the guider goes nuts?

> >

>

> Dave,

>

> I wonder why an awful lot of people don't have this problem at all ?

>

>

> Bill

>

> --

>

> William R. Mattil

>

> www.celestial-images.com

>



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