Re: [MaxImDL] Re: Pulseguide V5.12


Nov 1, 2010

 


----------------------------

#43368 Nov 1, 2010

I upgraded from 5.08 to 5.12 and wonder if anyone has used this version

successfully with a Paramount Me and tried to use the pulseguide function?

I tried it in version 5.08 and the RA oscillated so that put an end to

that.anyone have any luck and more importantly if this is indeed the case,

any tips on getting it to work?











If you are going through hell, keep going.



Sir Winston Churchill



Mike J. Shade: mshade@...

Sonoita Hills Observatory, Sonoita Arizona

www.sonoitaobservatories.org/> www.sonoitaobservatories.org



Already, in the gathering dusk, a few of the stars are turning on their

lights.

Vega, the brightest one, is now dropping toward the west. Can it be half

a year since I watched her April rising in the east? Low down in the

southwest Antares blinks a sad farewell to fall...

Leslie Peltier, Starlight Nights



International Dark Sky Association: www.darksky.org/>

www.darksky.org



"I like the dark, it's cheap" Ebenezer Scrooge











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#43370 Nov 1, 2010

I have used it with good results but unfortunately I could find no way to complete a meridian flip. You can calibrate on one side or the other but I could not find a combination to work on both side and as I use CCDAutopilot I went back to guider relays. I could get very low guiding errors and it was nice doing away with the guide cable. Maybe we can get Doug to look at it or give us some input.



Nigel

--- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Shade" mshade@...> wrote:

>

> I upgraded from 5.08 to 5.12 and wonder if anyone has used this version

> successfully with a Paramount Me and tried to use the pulseguide function?

> I tried it in version 5.08 and the RA oscillated so that put an end to

> that.anyone have any luck and more importantly if this is indeed the case,

> any tips on getting it to work?

>

>

>

>

>

> If you are going through hell, keep going.

>

> Sir Winston Churchill

>

> Mike J. Shade: mshade@...

> Sonoita Hills Observatory, Sonoita Arizona

> www.sonoitaobservatories.org/> www.sonoitaobservatories.org

>

> Already, in the gathering dusk, a few of the stars are turning on their

> lights.

> Vega, the brightest one, is now dropping toward the west. Can it be half

> a year since I watched her April rising in the east? Low down in the

> southwest Antares blinks a sad farewell to fall...

> Leslie Peltier, Starlight Nights

>

> International Dark Sky Association: www.darksky.org/>

> www.darksky.org

>

> "I like the dark, it's cheap" Ebenezer Scrooge

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



----------------------------

#43371 Nov 1, 2010

Ah, I'll complicate things a bit with ACP and a Pyxis 3" rotator.How much

better was the guiding and what mount were you using.







From: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

NIGEL K P

Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 9:02 PM

To: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [MaxImDL] Re: Pulseguide V5.12











I have used it with good results but unfortunately I could find no way to

complete a meridian flip. You can calibrate on one side or the other but I

could not find a combination to work on both side and as I use CCDAutopilot

I went back to guider relays. I could get very low guiding errors and it was

nice doing away with the guide cable. Maybe we can get Doug to look at it or

give us some input.



Nigel



--- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com mailto:MaxImDL%40yahoogroups.com> , "Mike

Shade" mshade@...> wrote: >

> I upgraded from 5.08 to 5.12 and wonder if anyone has used this version

> successfully with a Paramount Me and tried to use the pulseguide function?

> I tried it in version 5.08 and the RA oscillated so that put an end to

> that.anyone have any luck and more importantly if this is indeed the case,

> any tips on getting it to work?

>

>

>

>

>

> If you are going through hell, keep going.

>

> Sir Winston Churchill

>

> Mike J. Shade: mshade@...

> Sonoita Hills Observatory, Sonoita Arizona

> www.sonoitaobservatories.org/> www.sonoitaobservatories.org

>

> Already, in the gathering dusk, a few of the stars are turning on their

> lights.

> Vega, the brightest one, is now dropping toward the west. Can it be half

> a year since I watched her April rising in the east? Low down in the

> southwest Antares blinks a sad farewell to fall...

> Leslie Peltier, Starlight Nights

>

> International Dark Sky Association: www.darksky.org/>

> www.darksky.org

>

> "I like the dark, it's cheap" Ebenezer Scrooge

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#43372 Nov 1, 2010

The mount was an ME as in your first question. I was able to achieve the same guide errors that is very small but the aggressiveness needed to be backed of to 3 or 4 with Pulseguide, also it was there in earlier versions at least going back to 5.07 or earlier. If I have everything set up correctly and good seeing my mount flat lines the guiding graph. Cannot comment on ACP never used it. The attraction was to do away with the guide cable for me not to achieve better guiding. when I use a refractor with no rotator I could just work one side of the meridian but once I started using a bigger scope with a rotator and off axis guiding I could work both sides and flip the camera 180 degrees at the meridian flip. With the guide relays it all works and with Pulseguide I could not get it to work.



Nigel

--- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Shade" mshade@...> wrote:

>

> Ah, I'll complicate things a bit with ACP and a Pyxis 3" rotator.How much

> better was the guiding and what mount were you using.

>

>

>

> From: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

> NIGEL K P

> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 9:02 PM

> To: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: [MaxImDL] Re: Pulseguide V5.12

>

>

>

>

>

> I have used it with good results but unfortunately I could find no way to

> complete a meridian flip. You can calibrate on one side or the other but I

> could not find a combination to work on both side and as I use CCDAutopilot

> I went back to guider relays. I could get very low guiding errors and it was

> nice doing away with the guide cable. Maybe we can get Doug to look at it or

> give us some input.

>

> Nigel

>

> --- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com mailto:MaxImDL%40yahoogroups.com> , "Mike

> Shade" mshade@> wrote:

> >

> > I upgraded from 5.08 to 5.12 and wonder if anyone has used this version

> > successfully with a Paramount Me and tried to use the pulseguide function?

> > I tried it in version 5.08 and the RA oscillated so that put an end to

> > that.anyone have any luck and more importantly if this is indeed the case,

> > any tips on getting it to work?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > If you are going through hell, keep going.

> >

> > Sir Winston Churchill

> >

> > Mike J. Shade: mshade@

> > Sonoita Hills Observatory, Sonoita Arizona

> > www.sonoitaobservatories.org/> www.sonoitaobservatories.org

> >

> > Already, in the gathering dusk, a few of the stars are turning on their

> > lights.

> > Vega, the brightest one, is now dropping toward the west. Can it be half

> > a year since I watched her April rising in the east? Low down in the

> > southwest Antares blinks a sad farewell to fall...

> > Leslie Peltier, Starlight Nights

> >

> > International Dark Sky Association: www.darksky.org/>

> > www.darksky.org

> >

> > "I like the dark, it's cheap" Ebenezer Scrooge

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



----------------------------

#43374 Nov 2, 2010

Hi,



I have been having fits with guiding on my ME for a while. Pulse guiding just does not work for me.





I updated to 5.12 but 5.08 was just as bad. I have been wondering if there is some wrong with MaxIM but it could be the ME too. I replaced the control board only two months ago so it should be good.



I see the following behavior with pulse guiding(and sometimes relays)



1 It calibrates ok as long as the star has fairly high S/N.

If maxim "sees" the star after "Expose" it will procede ok with calibrate.



2. MaxIm often does not seem to be able to calbrate well on stars with S/N less than 50. Tried this with the FLI proline, starfish guider, and QHY8. Frequently it seems to locate the star to the wrong position and thus give wrong calibration vectors. Note this especially when click/chosen the star for calibration.





3. Tracking is nearly imposible on my ME right now.

If follow the process on a through on recognized bright star from exposure through calibration on to tracking; MaxIm does not seem to the see the star any more. Sometimes I get lucky and does track ok. I have even had problems with 3-5 mag stars in M45. Most of the time it is either is pushed right out of the box or bounces around and then is lost.



I got a tool from Hilderic that captures the entire guide sequence including the tracking and calibration images. He should be able to simulate the entire session and correlate with the tracking log. I just uploaded the images this AM.

I will let you know what I find out.



Max

--- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "NIGEL K P" n_patrick@...> wrote:

>

> The mount was an ME as in your first question. I was able to achieve the same guide errors that is very small but the aggressiveness needed to be backed of to 3 or 4 with Pulseguide, also it was there in earlier versions at least going back to 5.07 or earlier. If I have everything set up correctly and good seeing my mount flat lines the guiding graph. Cannot comment on ACP never used it. The attraction was to do away with the guide cable for me not to achieve better guiding. when I use a refractor with no rotator I could just work one side of the meridian but once I started using a bigger scope with a rotator and off axis guiding I could work both sides and flip the camera 180 degrees at the meridian flip. With the guide relays it all works and with Pulseguide I could not get it to work.

>

> Nigel

>

> --- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Shade" mshade@> wrote:

> >

> > Ah, I'll complicate things a bit with ACP and a Pyxis 3" rotator.How much

> > better was the guiding and what mount were you using.

> >

> >

> >

> > From: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

> > NIGEL K P

> > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 9:02 PM

> > To: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: [MaxImDL] Re: Pulseguide V5.12

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I have used it with good results but unfortunately I could find no way to

> > complete a meridian flip. You can calibrate on one side or the other but I

> > could not find a combination to work on both side and as I use CCDAutopilot

> > I went back to guider relays. I could get very low guiding errors and it was

> > nice doing away with the guide cable. Maybe we can get Doug to look at it or

> > give us some input.

> >

> > Nigel

> >

> > --- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com mailto:MaxImDL%40yahoogroups.com> , "Mike

> > Shade" mshade@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I upgraded from 5.08 to 5.12 and wonder if anyone has used this version

> > > successfully with a Paramount Me and tried to use the pulseguide function?

> > > I tried it in version 5.08 and the RA oscillated so that put an end to

> > > that.anyone have any luck and more importantly if this is indeed the case,

> > > any tips on getting it to work?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > If you are going through hell, keep going.

> > >

> > > Sir Winston Churchill

> > >

> > > Mike J. Shade: mshade@

> > > Sonoita Hills Observatory, Sonoita Arizona

> > > www.sonoitaobservatories.org/> www.sonoitaobservatories.org

> > >

> > > Already, in the gathering dusk, a few of the stars are turning on their

> > > lights.

> > > Vega, the brightest one, is now dropping toward the west. Can it be half

> > > a year since I watched her April rising in the east? Low down in the

> > > southwest Antares blinks a sad farewell to fall...

> > > Leslie Peltier, Starlight Nights

> > >

> > > International Dark Sky Association: www.darksky.org/>

> > > www.darksky.org

> > >

> > > "I like the dark, it's cheap" Ebenezer Scrooge

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>







----------------------------

#43376 Nov 2, 2010

I know it is frustrating when you can't get something to work that should

work. If you decide to throw in the towel you might want to consider the

approach I have taken. I use MaxIm for camera control but I use CCDSoft and

DirectGuide for guiding on my ME. I use a ST-402 camera for guiding on the

OAG port of my QSI camera. With DirectGuide you don't need your autoguiding

cable and everything just works fine.







Ken







-----Original Message-----

From: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

maxmsm

Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 7:30 AM

To: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [MaxImDL] Re: Pulseguide V5.12











Hi,



I have been having fits with guiding on my ME for a while. Pulse guiding

just does not work for me.



I updated to 5.12 but 5.08 was just as bad. I have been wondering if there

is some wrong with MaxIM but it could be the ME too. I replaced the control

board only two months ago so it should be good.



I see the following behavior with pulse guiding(and sometimes relays)



1 It calibrates ok as long as the star has fairly high S/N.

If maxim "sees" the star after "Expose" it will procede ok with calibrate.



2. MaxIm often does not seem to be able to calbrate well on stars with S/N

less than 50. Tried this with the FLI proline, starfish guider, and QHY8.

Frequently it seems to locate the star to the wrong position and thus give

wrong calibration vectors. Note this especially when click/chosen the star

for calibration.



3. Tracking is nearly imposible on my ME right now.

If follow the process on a through on recognized bright star from exposure

through calibration on to tracking; MaxIm does not seem to the see the star

any more. Sometimes I get lucky and does track ok. I have even had problems

with 3-5 mag stars in M45. Most of the time it is either is pushed right out

of the box or bounces around and then is lost.



I got a tool from Hilderic that captures the entire guide sequence including

the tracking and calibration images. He should be able to simulate the

entire session and correlate with the tracking log. I just uploaded the

images this AM.

I will let you know what I find out.



Max

_,_.___



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----------------------------

#43377 Nov 2, 2010

I did all my testing with MaxIM DL alone.

When all is working well I use CCDAP4 too.



CCDAP can't normaly run MaxIM and CCDsoft at the same time.



Max

--- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Hose" khose@...> wrote:

>

> I know it is frustrating when you can't get something to work that should

> work. If you decide to throw in the towel you might want to consider the

> approach I have taken. I use MaxIm for camera control but I use CCDSoft and

> DirectGuide for guiding on my ME. I use a ST-402 camera for guiding on the

> OAG port of my QSI camera. With DirectGuide you don't need your autoguiding

> cable and everything just works fine.

>

>

>

> Ken

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

> maxmsm

> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 7:30 AM

> To: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: [MaxImDL] Re: Pulseguide V5.12

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi,

>

> I have been having fits with guiding on my ME for a while. Pulse guiding

> just does not work for me.

>

> I updated to 5.12 but 5.08 was just as bad. I have been wondering if there

> is some wrong with MaxIM but it could be the ME too. I replaced the control

> board only two months ago so it should be good.

>

> I see the following behavior with pulse guiding(and sometimes relays)

>

> 1 It calibrates ok as long as the star has fairly high S/N.

> If maxim "sees" the star after "Expose" it will procede ok with calibrate.

>

> 2. MaxIm often does not seem to be able to calbrate well on stars with S/N

> less than 50. Tried this with the FLI proline, starfish guider, and QHY8.

> Frequently it seems to locate the star to the wrong position and thus give

> wrong calibration vectors. Note this especially when click/chosen the star

> for calibration.

>

> 3. Tracking is nearly imposible on my ME right now.

> If follow the process on a through on recognized bright star from exposure

> through calibration on to tracking; MaxIm does not seem to the see the star

> any more. Sometimes I get lucky and does track ok. I have even had problems

> with 3-5 mag stars in M45. Most of the time it is either is pushed right out

> of the box or bounces around and then is lost.

>

> I got a tool from Hilderic that captures the entire guide sequence including

> the tracking and calibration images. He should be able to simulate the

> entire session and correlate with the tracking log. I just uploaded the

> images this AM.

> I will let you know what I find out.

>

> Max

> _,_.___

>

> Reply to mailto:maxmirot@...?subject=Re:%20Pulseguide%20V5.12>

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----------------------------

#43378 Nov 2, 2010

FWIW I use PulseGuide with a Paramount ME all the time. A few points:



1. Set Aggressiveness around 3. This effectively averages the seeing over

several samples, and significantly improves the guiding. The tracking is so

smooth on this mount that higher aggressiveness is not only unnecessary, it is

counterproductive.



2. When using PulseGuide, the Paramount ME appears to need the following

settings on Guider Settings / Advanced tab - Guider Motor Control: "Enable

simultaneous RA and Dec corrections", and "On Pier Flip - Reverse X and Y".

(This is different than the setting for using a separate guide cable, which

needs "Reverse X".) That said, please see #3.



3. Currently we do not get Side Of Pier information from TheSky, as it is not

implemented in the ASCOM TheSky-Controlled Telescope. It is not obvious (to me

at least) how to get that information from TheSky; I have recently discussed

this with Steve Bisque, and he promised to help. In the meantime, we have to

"guess" based on Hour Angle. Currently, that guess may not be correct if you

slew to a region between the zenith and the pole. This can necessitate

autoguider recalibration (or at least a manual flip of the Y direction) if you

wander into this zone. (If we cannot figure out how to get this information

from TheSky for some reason, we will implement an optional "auto-reverse on

large tracking error" feature.)



4. I haven't been able to test TheSky X yet. I've received conflicting reports

on whether this interface is fully working. So at this point in time I still

recommend using TheSky 5 or 6.



Doug



--



Doug George

dgeorge@...



Diffraction Limited

Makers of Cyanogen Imaging Products

www.cyanogen.com/



100 Craig Henry Dr., Suite 202

Ottawa, Ontario,

Canada, K2G 5W3



Phone: (613) 225-2732

Fax: (613) 225-9688



----------------------------

#43383 Nov 3, 2010

I have a question about aggressiveness and your comments, below. You

suggest that it be set to around 3 or so.is this with Pulseguide only or

with using an internal guide chip as well? I use the internal chip of an

SBIG camera and tend to run about 7.5 or even 8 on aggressiveness.







From: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

Douglas B. George

Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 11:42 AM

To: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [MaxImDL] Re: Pulseguide V5.12











FWIW I use PulseGuide with a Paramount ME all the time. A few points:



1. Set Aggressiveness around 3. This effectively averages the seeing over

several samples, and significantly improves the guiding. The tracking is so

smooth on this mount that higher aggressiveness is not only unnecessary, it

is

counterproductive.



2. When using PulseGuide, the Paramount ME appears to need the following

settings on Guider Settings / Advanced tab - Guider Motor Control: "Enable

simultaneous RA and Dec corrections", and "On Pier Flip - Reverse X and Y".

(This is different than the setting for using a separate guide cable, which

needs "Reverse X".) That said, please see #3.



3. Currently we do not get Side Of Pier information from TheSky, as it is

not

implemented in the ASCOM TheSky-Controlled Telescope. It is not obvious (to

me

at least) how to get that information from TheSky; I have recently discussed



this with Steve Bisque, and he promised to help. In the meantime, we have to



"guess" based on Hour Angle. Currently, that guess may not be correct if you



slew to a region between the zenith and the pole. This can necessitate

autoguider recalibration (or at least a manual flip of the Y direction) if

you

wander into this zone. (If we cannot figure out how to get this information

from TheSky for some reason, we will implement an optional "auto-reverse on

large tracking error" feature.)



4. I haven't been able to test TheSky X yet. I've received conflicting

reports

on whether this interface is fully working. So at this point in time I still



recommend using TheSky 5 or 6.



Doug



--



Doug George

dgeorge@... mailto:dgeorge%40cyanogen.com>



Diffraction Limited

Makers of Cyanogen Imaging Products

www.cyanogen.com/



100 Craig Henry Dr., Suite 202

Ottawa, Ontario,

Canada, K2G 5W3



Phone: (613) 225-2732

Fax: (613) 225-9688











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#43384 Nov 3, 2010

On 2010-11-03 12:20 PM, Mike Shade wrote: > I have a question about aggressiveness and your comments, below. You

> suggest that it be set to around 3 or so.is this with Pulseguide only or

> with using an internal guide chip as well? I use the internal chip of an

> SBIG camera and tend to run about 7.5 or even 8 on aggressiveness.



That really has nothing to do with PulseGuide per se.



On a Paramount ME with the PEC trained, I would recommend a lower aggressiveness

so you can average out the effects of seeing.



On a mount with significant PEC you will need a higher aggressiveness to

adequately follow the PEC curve.



Doug



--



Doug George

dgeorge@...



Diffraction Limited

Makers of Cyanogen Imaging Products

www.cyanogen.com/



100 Craig Henry Dr., Suite 202

Ottawa, Ontario,

Canada, K2G 5W3



Phone: (613) 225-2732

Fax: (613) 225-9688







----------------------------

#43585 Nov 17, 2010

Nigel,



Let's bring this discussion to the CCDAutoPilot support forum. I'll bet we can work this out.



John

www.hiddenloft.com

CCDAutoPilot - Your complete Imaging Automation Solution

www.ccdware.com







On Nov 1, 2010, at 11:26 PM, NIGEL K P wrote:



> The mount was an ME as in your first question. I was able to achieve the same guide errors that is very small but the aggressiveness needed to be backed of to 3 or 4 with Pulseguide, also it was there in earlier versions at least going back to 5.07 or earlier. If I have everything set up correctly and good seeing my mount flat lines the guiding graph. Cannot comment on ACP never used it. The attraction was to do away with the guide cable for me not to achieve better guiding. when I use a refractor with no rotator I could just work one side of the meridian but once I started using a bigger scope with a rotator and off axis guiding I could work both sides and flip the camera 180 degrees at the meridian flip. With the guide relays it all works and with Pulseguide I could not get it to work.

>

> Nigel

>

> --- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Shade" mshade@...> wrote:

>>

>> Ah, I'll complicate things a bit with ACP and a Pyxis 3" rotator.How much

>> better was the guiding and what mount were you using.

>>

>>

>>

>> From: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

>> NIGEL K P

>> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 9:02 PM

>> To: MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com

>> Subject: [MaxImDL] Re: Pulseguide V5.12

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> I have used it with good results but unfortunately I could find no way to

>> complete a meridian flip. You can calibrate on one side or the other but I

>> could not find a combination to work on both side and as I use CCDAutopilot

>> I went back to guider relays. I could get very low guiding errors and it was

>> nice doing away with the guide cable. Maybe we can get Doug to look at it or

>> give us some input.

>>

>> Nigel

>>

>> --- In MaxImDL@yahoogroups.com mailto:MaxImDL%40yahoogroups.com> , "Mike

>> Shade" mshade@> wrote:

>>>

>>> I upgraded from 5.08 to 5.12 and wonder if anyone has used this version

>>> successfully with a Paramount Me and tried to use the pulseguide function?

>>> I tried it in version 5.08 and the RA oscillated so that put an end to

>>> that.anyone have any luck and more importantly if this is indeed the case,

>>> any tips on getting it to work?

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> If you are going through hell, keep going.

>>>

>>> Sir Winston Churchill

>>>

>>> Mike J. Shade: mshade@

>>> Sonoita Hills Observatory, Sonoita Arizona

>>> www.sonoitaobservatories.org/> www.sonoitaobservatories.org

>>>

>>> Already, in the gathering dusk, a few of the stars are turning on their

>>> lights.

>>> Vega, the brightest one, is now dropping toward the west. Can it be half

>>> a year since I watched her April rising in the east? Low down in the

>>> southwest Antares blinks a sad farewell to fall...

>>> Leslie Peltier, Starlight Nights

>>>

>>> International Dark Sky Association: www.darksky.org/>

>>> www.darksky.org

>>>

>>> "I like the dark, it's cheap" Ebenezer Scrooge

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>

>

>



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