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Re: [Losmandy_users] Permanent pier for G11, perhaps out of topic


Jan 31, 2008

 


----------------------------

#36180 Jan 31, 2008

Hi all,



This is perhaps out of topic but have to ask:

I'm designing a permanent observatory and if I want a long permanent

pier let say 210cm, approx what diameter is needed (and material

thickness)? Let say steel put into solid rock, maybe concrete filled.



Best



Lars



----------------------------

#36181 Jan 31, 2008

Hi Lars,



If I would built a pier like that I would not use a steel pipe all

that long.



I would make it of concrete and in conical shape and then the last

part maybe 60cm of steel pipe.



So you have rock as a base which I think is good.



I would start with 60cm round and then after 150cm finish it at about

40cm round and then the rest with a steel pipe of minimum 25cm better

30cm



best regards Rainer



>

> Hi all,

>

> This is perhaps out of topic but have to ask:

> I'm designing a permanent observatory and if I want a long

permanent > pier let say 210cm, approx what diameter is needed (and material

> thickness)? Let say steel put into solid rock, maybe concrete

filled. >

> Best

>

> Lars

>



----------------------------

#36182 Jan 31, 2008

This is totally on topic. And even if it were a bit off, the idea

here is not to be one of those groups where, if you dropped in a piece

of coal, it would come out a diamond a week later.



In answer to your question, one way to proceed is to call a vendor

like ATS and ask what they would recommend. By telling them you are

thinking of designing an observatory around their permanent pier you

can probably get the dimensions out of them.



My general thought, however, is that the pier should be over-built and

over specified with some kind of adapter in mind. The reason being

that you may not want to use the G11 forever. So if you designed to

accommodate a Parmount ME and had an adapter then down the road it

won't seem so nutty to upgrade to a Titan or an AP900, 1200, as you

see fit and as income allows.



Another way to approach the problem is that maybe you want "the

stability of a permanent pier but maybe sometime you'd like to take it

all out." In which case designing your observatory to accommodate a

portable pier (ATS again, or Particle Wave Technologies, PWT) would

work. Parallax has an interesting portable pier design that might

also serve in a permanent mounting situation.



There is another pier company that I see advertising in a small box

add (with picture) in the back of S&T that you might contact, but I

don't remember their name (someone here probably would).



It wouldn't be a bad idea if we had some CAD drawings of the

dimensions of a g8, g11, Titan, HGM 200, and anything else we can

think of in order to answer these kinds of questions with great

precision. Regrettably I'm not in a position to provide that kind of

resource, but with over three thousand members, we might find a

volunteer. If there are such drawings here already I've forgotten

about them, but you should also nose around our FILES and PHOTOs

sections, as well as LINKs. You might for example find some LINKS to

people who have built permanent piers.



Roth Ritter used to image with a G11/c11, I don't know what he's using

these days. (google him)



hope that helps

Greg N







--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "lgw09" lgw@...> wrote:

>

> Hi all,

>

> This is perhaps out of topic but have to ask:

> I'm designing a permanent observatory and if I want a long permanent

> pier let say 210cm, approx what diameter is needed (and material

> thickness)? Let say steel put into solid rock, maybe concrete filled.

>

> Best

>

> Lars

>



----------------------------

#36183 Jan 31, 2008

All:



Speaking of concrete piers or steel piers - I am a licensed

structural engineer versed in steel and concrete design. I can

produce detailed design drawings to suit your needs if anyone needs

help designing a custom pier...

Scott

--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Rainer" rsbfoto@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Lars,

>

> If I would built a pier like that I would not use a steel pipe all

> that long.

>

> I would make it of concrete and in conical shape and then the last

> part maybe 60cm of steel pipe.

>

> So you have rock as a base which I think is good.

>

> I would start with 60cm round and then after 150cm finish it at

about

> 40cm round and then the rest with a steel pipe of minimum 25cm

better

> 30cm

>

> best regards Rainer

>

>

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > This is perhaps out of topic but have to ask:

> > I'm designing a permanent observatory and if I want a long

> permanent

> > pier let say 210cm, approx what diameter is needed (and material

> > thickness)? Let say steel put into solid rock, maybe concrete

> filled.

> >

> > Best

> >

> > Lars

> >

>







----------------------------

#36184 Jan 31, 2008

Lars,



I built a steel pier 87" (220cm) out of 10" (25cm) diameter steel pipe with a wall thickness of 3/8"

(9.5mm). The base is 24" (60.9cm) by 1/2" (12.7mm) thick and the upper flange is 12" (30cm) by 3/4"

(19mm) thick. There are four gussets 1/4" (6.3mm) thick by 44" (110cm) welded to the steel pipe and

it was filled with sand. It is bolted to a concrete base that was built for another telescope. I had

to design around what was already installed in the observatory.



tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/dvaa/files/Equipment/New_Pier.jpg

----- Original Message -----

From: "lgw09" lgw@...>

To: Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 4:24 PM

Subject: [Losmandy_users] Permanent pier for G11, perhaps out of topic





> Hi all,

>

> This is perhaps out of topic but have to ask:

> I'm designing a permanent observatory and if I want a long permanent

> pier let say 210cm, approx what diameter is needed (and material

> thickness)? Let say steel put into solid rock, maybe concrete filled.

>

> Best

>

> Lars

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>



----------------------------

#36188 Feb 1 2:54 AM

Steel and concrete don't mix that great when filling the steel with

concrete.



Rainer's solution is better I believe... take a look at

clientes.netvisao.pt/jcanela/html/46.htm and check the pier...



It's a GM8... but it will be the same on a G11.



Hope it helped.



Regards,



Canela

cliente.netvisao.pt/jcanela/>



---------------



From: Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rainer

Sent: quinta-feira, 31 de Janeiro de 2008 22:06

To: Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [Losmandy_users] Re: Permanent pier for G11, perhaps out of

topic







Hi Lars,



If I would built a pier like that I would not use a steel pipe all

that long.



I would make it of concrete and in conical shape and then the last

part maybe 60cm of steel pipe.



So you have rock as a base which I think is good.



I would start with 60cm round and then after 150cm finish it at about

40cm round and then the rest with a steel pipe of minimum 25cm better

30cm



best regards Rainer

>

> Hi all,

>

> This is perhaps out of topic but have to ask:

> I'm designing a permanent observatory and if I want a long

permanent > pier let say 210cm, approx what diameter is needed (and material

> thickness)? Let say steel put into solid rock, maybe concrete

filled. >

> Best

>

> Lars

>













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#36189 Feb 1 3:17 AM

Scott,



if that's the case then I think the group would be very gratefull if

you did so.



Thanks in advance



Jose Canela



---------------



From: Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott

Sent: quinta-feira, 31 de Janeiro de 2008 23:33

To: Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [Losmandy_users] Re: Permanent pier for G11, perhaps out of

topic







All:



Speaking of concrete piers or steel piers - I am a licensed

structural engineer versed in steel and concrete design. I can

produce detailed design drawings to suit your needs if anyone needs

help designing a custom pier...

Scott



--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com

mailto:Losmandy_users%40yahoogroups.com> , "Rainer" rsbfoto@...>

wrote: >

> Hi Lars,

>

> If I would built a pier like that I would not use a steel pipe all

> that long.

>

> I would make it of concrete and in conical shape and then the last

> part maybe 60cm of steel pipe.

>

> So you have rock as a base which I think is good.

>

> I would start with 60cm round and then after 150cm finish it at

about > 40cm round and then the rest with a steel pipe of minimum 25cm

better > 30cm

>

> best regards Rainer

>

>

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > This is perhaps out of topic but have to ask:

> > I'm designing a permanent observatory and if I want a long

> permanent

> > pier let say 210cm, approx what diameter is needed (and material

> > thickness)? Let say steel put into solid rock, maybe concrete

> filled.

> >

> > Best

> >

> > Lars

> >

>













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#36190 Feb 1 3:35 AM

Hi



Thanks for your answer, in fact I will start doing a 3D-model of the

G11 this weekend, perhaps next week a can supply some pdf-drawings.

I'm using PRO-engineer for the job and I will do the whole

observatory in this program. By the way is there any illustrated part

diagram for the G11 mount? I know briefly what's inside but have an

exploded view is better. The reason why a want a tall pier is that

the building area is restricted and having a dome built is even more

restricted by my wife. By using a tall pier you can sort of

walk "under" the telescope and having walk around space even if the

floor area is quit small. It will be a "garden house" that need to

look as it really fits in to the surroundings and looks "sweet"

(wife).



Best



Lars



--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "gnowellsct" tim71pos@...>

wrote: >

> This is totally on topic. And even if it were a bit off, the idea

> here is not to be one of those groups where, if you dropped in a

piece > of coal, it would come out a diamond a week later.

>

> In answer to your question, one way to proceed is to call a vendor

> like ATS and ask what they would recommend. By telling them you are

> thinking of designing an observatory around their permanent pier you

> can probably get the dimensions out of them.

>

> My general thought, however, is that the pier should be over-built

and > over specified with some kind of adapter in mind. The reason being

> that you may not want to use the G11 forever. So if you designed to

> accommodate a Parmount ME and had an adapter then down the road it

> won't seem so nutty to upgrade to a Titan or an AP900, 1200, as you

> see fit and as income allows.

>

> Another way to approach the problem is that maybe you want "the

> stability of a permanent pier but maybe sometime you'd like to take

it > all out." In which case designing your observatory to accommodate a

> portable pier (ATS again, or Particle Wave Technologies, PWT) would

> work. Parallax has an interesting portable pier design that might

> also serve in a permanent mounting situation.

>

> There is another pier company that I see advertising in a small box

> add (with picture) in the back of S&T that you might contact, but I

> don't remember their name (someone here probably would).

>

> It wouldn't be a bad idea if we had some CAD drawings of the

> dimensions of a g8, g11, Titan, HGM 200, and anything else we can

> think of in order to answer these kinds of questions with great

> precision. Regrettably I'm not in a position to provide that kind

of > resource, but with over three thousand members, we might find a

> volunteer. If there are such drawings here already I've forgotten

> about them, but you should also nose around our FILES and PHOTOs

> sections, as well as LINKs. You might for example find some LINKS

to > people who have built permanent piers.

>

> Roth Ritter used to image with a G11/c11, I don't know what he's

using > these days. (google him)

>

> hope that helps

> Greg N

>

>

>

>

> --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "lgw09" lgw@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > This is perhaps out of topic but have to ask:

> > I'm designing a permanent observatory and if I want a long

permanent > > pier let say 210cm, approx what diameter is needed (and material

> > thickness)? Let say steel put into solid rock, maybe concrete

filled. > >

> > Best

> >

> > Lars

> >

>







----------------------------

#36193 Feb 1 5:58 AM

Lars,



One small point: don't make the same mistake that I did and have the

pier too wide too high up. Depending on the shape of your telescope and

imaging equipment it may hit the pier when near the zenith!



Regards

John Moore

Fleet, Hants, England

homepage.ntlworld.com/john.moore88/index.htm



----------------------------

#36194 Feb 1 6:15 AM

jcmoore_uk wrote: > One small point: don't make the same mistake that I did and have the

> pier too wide too high up. Depending on the shape of your telescope and

> imaging equipment it may hit the pier when near the zenith!





Yes! I made that mistake and won't repeat it. My next observatory will

have a 12" concrete pier topped with a 6" metal tube to support the G-11.



Mike

--



Mike Dodd

Montpelier, VA USA

astronomy.mdodd.com



----------------------------

#36195 Feb 1 8:17 AM

I also have a permanent pier. Mine was originally made for a Meade LX90 8".

I put the base adapter for the GM-8/GM-11 on it. It works fine, but it is

now slightly high.







So make sure it is not too high.







Regards







Jim Holland







From: Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com]

On Behalf Of Mike Dodd

Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 9:16 AM

To: Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users] Re: Permanent pier for G11, perhaps out of

topic







jcmoore_uk wrote: > One small point: don't make the same mistake that I did and have the

> pier too wide too high up. Depending on the shape of your telescope and

> imaging equipment it may hit the pier when near the zenith!



Yes! I made that mistake and won't repeat it. My next observatory will

have a 12" concrete pier topped with a 6" metal tube to support the G-11.



Mike

--



Mike Dodd

Montpelier, VA USA

astronomy.mdodd.com











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#36196 Feb 1 8:47 AM

Lars,



I should mention that the pier I built is for a 8" F/12 refractor on a large GEM mount, that I also

built.



Don

----- Original Message -----

From: "lgw09" lgw@...>

To: Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 4:24 PM

Subject: [Losmandy_users] Permanent pier for G11, perhaps out of topic





> Hi all,

>

> This is perhaps out of topic but have to ask:

> I'm designing a permanent observatory and if I want a long permanent

> pier let say 210cm, approx what diameter is needed (and material

> thickness)? Let say steel put into solid rock, maybe concrete filled.

>

> Best

>

> Lars

>



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