VintageBigBlue.org

 

Re: Periodic and random errors


Mar 11, 2005

 


----------------------------

#24679 Mar 11, 2005

I am awaiting the arrrival of a G11 with Gemini. I am beginning to

wonder if the order was a very good idea since I keep seeing tweaks

that have to be applied to the system. Any comments that might allay

my fears?



Also, how does the mount do (Gemini system that is) as far a periodic

and random errors are concerned?



I should add a bit of info: My system will not push the mount as far

as weight goes; well within 35 lbs. I know that the mount is

advertised as being capable of handlng 60, but I've also read that 30-

35 lbs is a more reasonable expectation.



Thanks in advance -



----------------------------

#24680 Mar 11, 2005

Hi fkluber,



Yes, that was an execelltnt idea to get a G11 + Gemini.



I would suggest that you set up the G11 and the Gemini and forget for

at least for the next 2 months the words " to tweak ".



When you did buy your car were you also concerned like that ? Did you

also read lots of posts and begin to worry ?



Start from scratch by saying I do not need to tweak my mount, but

what I have to do is read carful the manual and specially the gemiini

manual and please forget everything you have read about tweaking.



You can not tweak a piece of epuipment if you still do not know it.



Get familiar with your mount.



O got my G11 + Gemini on october 2003 and it was not until June or

July 2004 that I thought about if there is something to adjust.



My tip is: Set it up in your living room and look at it and think

about how all that pieces work together. Moeve it around with the

Gemini .REMEMBER! to balance evrything well. I would even say do not

put any equipment on it. Just play around with it until you feel

confident.



REMEMBER The words " to tweak " do not exist OK :-))))))



regards Rainer







--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "fklauber1" fklauber@n...>

wrote: >

> I am awaiting the arrrival of a G11 with Gemini. I am beginning

to > wonder if the order was a very good idea since I keep seeing tweaks

> that have to be applied to the system. Any comments that might

allay > my fears?

>

> Also, how does the mount do (Gemini system that is) as far a

periodic > and random errors are concerned?

>

> I should add a bit of info: My system will not push the mount as

far > as weight goes; well within 35 lbs. I know that the mount is

> advertised as being capable of handlng 60, but I've also read that

30- > 35 lbs is a more reasonable expectation.

>

> Thanks in advance -



----------------------------

#24681 Mar 11, 2005

These types of lists are prone to discuss more operational problems

than the joy of operating the equipment. The G11 is a great

product. The price is very good relative to the quality and

performance.



I think that no matter what you get you will have to do some tweaking.



You can count me as a very satisfied comsumer.



--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "fklauber1" fklauber@n...>

wrote: >

> I am awaiting the arrrival of a G11 with Gemini. I am beginning

to > wonder if the order was a very good idea since I keep seeing tweaks

> that have to be applied to the system. Any comments that might

allay > my fears?

>

> Also, how does the mount do (Gemini system that is) as far a

periodic > and random errors are concerned?

>

> I should add a bit of info: My system will not push the mount as

far > as weight goes; well within 35 lbs. I know that the mount is

> advertised as being capable of handlng 60, but I've also read that

30- > 35 lbs is a more reasonable expectation.

>

> Thanks in advance -



----------------------------

#24682 Mar 11, 2005

First - thanks for your advice.



Of course I am going to learn as much as possible about the G11

before using it for viewing or imaging.



I should say that what I meant was that I was wondering what I was

going to get "out of the box." I've been burned in the past, where

the purchase needed work before it was useable - no more, no less.

And since there are many, many things that can go wrong while

imaging, I did not want to be up against a mount that was going to be

another source of frustration.

--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Rainer" rsbfoto@r...> wrote:

>

> Hi fkluber,

>

> Yes, that was an execelltnt idea to get a G11 + Gemini.

>

> I would suggest that you set up the G11 and the Gemini and forget

for

> at least for the next 2 months the words " to tweak ".

>

> When you did buy your car were you also concerned like that ? Did

you

> also read lots of posts and begin to worry ?

>

> Start from scratch by saying I do not need to tweak my mount, but

> what I have to do is read carful the manual and specially the

gemiini

> manual and please forget everything you have read about tweaking.

>

> You can not tweak a piece of epuipment if you still do not know it.

>

> Get familiar with your mount.

>

> O got my G11 + Gemini on october 2003 and it was not until June or

> July 2004 that I thought about if there is something to adjust.

>

> My tip is: Set it up in your living room and look at it and think

> about how all that pieces work together. Moeve it around with the

> Gemini .REMEMBER! to balance evrything well. I would even say do

not

> put any equipment on it. Just play around with it until you feel

> confident.

>

> REMEMBER The words " to tweak " do not exist OK :-))))))

>

> regards Rainer

>

>

>

> --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "fklauber1" fklauber@n...>

> wrote:

> >

> > I am awaiting the arrrival of a G11 with Gemini. I am beginning

> to

> > wonder if the order was a very good idea since I keep seeing

tweaks

> > that have to be applied to the system. Any comments that might

> allay

> > my fears?

> >

> > Also, how does the mount do (Gemini system that is) as far a

> periodic

> > and random errors are concerned?

> >

> > I should add a bit of info: My system will not push the mount as

> far

> > as weight goes; well within 35 lbs. I know that the mount is

> > advertised as being capable of handlng 60, but I've also read

that

> 30-

> > 35 lbs is a more reasonable expectation.

> >

> > Thanks in advance -







----------------------------

#24683 Mar 11, 2005

I suppose I just needed a little hand holding. I am sure that any

piece of equipment, especially one that we expect and need to move

with such accuracy, will need a helping had every now and again. I

was just wondering about the frequency and extent of possible

problems. I can stand a certain amount of frustration, but I'd prefer

to be able to get to viewing my images with hitting the least amount

of bumps in the road. (Please pardon the cliche) If that meant buying

something else, so be it. I guess that from your comments, that

might not be necessary.







--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "ejrobau" ejr@c...> wrote:

>

> These types of lists are prone to discuss more operational problems

> than the joy of operating the equipment. The G11 is a great

> product. The price is very good relative to the quality and

> performance.

>

> I think that no matter what you get you will have to do some

tweaking.

>

> You can count me as a very satisfied comsumer.

>

> --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "fklauber1" fklauber@n...>

> wrote:

> >

> > I am awaiting the arrrival of a G11 with Gemini. I am beginning

> to

> > wonder if the order was a very good idea since I keep seeing

tweaks

> > that have to be applied to the system. Any comments that might

> allay

> > my fears?

> >

> > Also, how does the mount do (Gemini system that is) as far a

> periodic

> > and random errors are concerned?

> >

> > I should add a bit of info: My system will not push the mount as

> far

> > as weight goes; well within 35 lbs. I know that the mount is

> > advertised as being capable of handlng 60, but I've also read

that

> 30-

> > 35 lbs is a more reasonable expectation.

> >

> > Thanks in advance -



----------------------------

#24685 Mar 11, 2005

> Also, how does the mount do (Gemini system that is) as far a

periodic > and random errors are concerned?



HI,



I forgot to answer this question. My G11 has a PE of + - 5"

arcseconds as it arrived from the dealer.



My GM-8 has a PE of about + - 8 to 10" as it came from the dealer.



regards Rainer



PS I read your message in CCD-Newastro group. Did you cancel your

order of the G11 and if yes why ?



----------------------------

#24686 Mar 11, 2005

I've not cancelled. So far, Losmandy is still a winner.



Thanks for the PE info. It is quite low.

--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Rainer" rsbfoto@r...> wrote:

>

>

> >

> > Also, how does the mount do (Gemini system that is) as far a

> periodic

> > and random errors are concerned?

>

> HI,

>

> I forgot to answer this question. My G11 has a PE of + - 5"

> arcseconds as it arrived from the dealer.

>

> My GM-8 has a PE of about + - 8 to 10" as it came from the dealer.

>

> regards Rainer

>

> PS I read your message in CCD-Newastro group. Did you cancel your

> order of the G11 and if yes why ?



----------------------------

#24695 Mar 12, 2005

fklauber1:



Rainer gives you VERY GOOD advice. I have been using my G11/Gemini "out of the box" for a couple of years and am very happy with the results, after "I" LEARNED HOW TO USE THE MOUNT & my STV guider.



And I load the mt. up pretty heavy. I have a few results posted on the Lomandy site and will sonn post a picture of m film imaging set up for the mt.



Harry ----- Original Message -----

From: fklauber1

To: Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 10:00 AM

Subject: [Losmandy_users] Re: Periodic and random errors







First - thanks for your advice.



Of course I am going to learn as much as possible about the G11

before using it for viewing or imaging.



I should say that what I meant was that I was wondering what I was

going to get "out of the box." I've been burned in the past, where

the purchase needed work before it was useable - no more, no less.

And since there are many, many things that can go wrong while

imaging, I did not want to be up against a mount that was going to be

another source of frustration.



--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Rainer" rsbfoto@r...> wrote:

>

> Hi fkluber,

>

> Yes, that was an execelltnt idea to get a G11 + Gemini.

>

> I would suggest that you set up the G11 and the Gemini and forget

for

> at least for the next 2 months the words " to tweak ".

>

> When you did buy your car were you also concerned like that ? Did

you

> also read lots of posts and begin to worry ?

>

> Start from scratch by saying I do not need to tweak my mount, but

> what I have to do is read carful the manual and specially the

gemiini

> manual and please forget everything you have read about tweaking.

>

> You can not tweak a piece of epuipment if you still do not know it.

>

> Get familiar with your mount.

>

> O got my G11 + Gemini on october 2003 and it was not until June or

> July 2004 that I thought about if there is something to adjust.

>

> My tip is: Set it up in your living room and look at it and think

> about how all that pieces work together. Moeve it around with the

> Gemini .REMEMBER! to balance evrything well. I would even say do

not

> put any equipment on it. Just play around with it until you feel

> confident.

>

> REMEMBER The words " to tweak " do not exist OK :-))))))

>

> regards Rainer

>

>

>

> --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "fklauber1" fklauber@n...>

> wrote:

> >

> > I am awaiting the arrrival of a G11 with Gemini. I am beginning

> to

> > wonder if the order was a very good idea since I keep seeing

tweaks

> > that have to be applied to the system. Any comments that might

> allay

> > my fears?

> >

> > Also, how does the mount do (Gemini system that is) as far a

> periodic

> > and random errors are concerned?

> >

> > I should add a bit of info: My system will not push the mount as

> far

> > as weight goes; well within 35 lbs. I know that the mount is

> > advertised as being capable of handlng 60, but I've also read

that

> 30-

> > 35 lbs is a more reasonable expectation.

> >

> > Thanks in advance -









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----------------------------

#24707 Mar 14, 2005

I am awaiting the arrrival of a G11 with Gemini. I am beginning to

> wonder if the order was a very good idea since I keep seeing tweaks

> that have to be applied to the system. Any comments that might allay

> my fears?



They say that a large part of advertising is assuring the customer he made the

right decision, so he will then go on to speak well of the product to others.



Hmm. I'm not going to play that game. You made a bad decision. If you are going

to do CCD imaging, you would be better off buying a Titan. The G11 is really

obsolete for CCD imaging. It requires so much tweaking that it will give you

problems for evermore. The problems concern the mesh of the worm and gear and

the ability of that inadequate design to continually ruin your CCD imaging.



In addition, the periodic error of the G11 needs correction, but the Gemini

system does not appear to be able to do periodic error correction without

introducing RA drift. The outcome of that is to ruin your CCD images.



Bear in mind that those who have already purchased a G11 have a psychological

need to justify that decision. The endless discussions on this list about

correcting problems are real.



- Greg



----------------------------

#24708 Mar 14, 2005

Oooh, Greg! You wouldn't be justifying a Titan purchase by any

chance, now would you? :-)



You're making a few really broad generalizations in your message, and

in my opinion they are baseless.



G11 is obsolete for CCD imaging??? Where did you get that idea? I've

been happily CCD'ing with my G11 for the last 5 years, as have

hundreds of others. In it's weight class, G11 is still the best value

out there for CCD and visual, period.



Too much tweaking? I adjust my worm mesh maybe once or twice a year,

usually when I relube the mount. It takes all of about 5 minutes to

do. To say this is too much is like saying "I won't buy that car,

because it requires oil changes". It's just simple maintenance, Greg.



Periodic error needs correction? Not with the precision worm. My PE

is less than +/-2 arcseconds. Even on G11s where PE is greater, it's

still smooth enough that an autoguider will easily handle it, with no

need for PEC.



Ruined shots due to PE being too large? At 2600mm focal length, I've

yet to ruin a single 20 minute exposure due to tracking or PE.



Maybe you've had a bad experience with your G11 but please don't

generalize from one example -- it's just poor statistics to do so.



There are good reasons to buy a Titan, but G11's unsuitability to CCD

imaging is certainly not one of them.



-Paul



--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Crawford" gc@n...>

wrote: > > I am awaiting the arrrival of a G11 with Gemini. I am beginning

to > > wonder if the order was a very good idea since I keep seeing

tweaks > > that have to be applied to the system. Any comments that might

allay > > my fears?

>

> They say that a large part of advertising is assuring the customer

he made the > right decision, so he will then go on to speak well of the product

to others. >

> Hmm. I'm not going to play that game. You made a bad decision. If

you are going > to do CCD imaging, you would be better off buying a Titan. The G11

is really > obsolete for CCD imaging. It requires so much tweaking that it will

give you > problems for evermore. The problems concern the mesh of the worm

and gear and > the ability of that inadequate design to continually ruin your CCD

imaging. >

> In addition, the periodic error of the G11 needs correction, but

the Gemini > system does not appear to be able to do periodic error correction

without > introducing RA drift. The outcome of that is to ruin your CCD

images. >

> Bear in mind that those who have already purchased a G11 have a

psychological > need to justify that decision. The endless discussions on this list

about > correcting problems are real.

>

> - Greg



----------------------------

#24716 Mar 15, 2005

Guiding is fine if you don't have clouds

>that come across and send the guider off on a frolic of its own





Hi Greg,



I do not know which program you use but I can assure that the free

program GuideDog does not do that.



If there is no star it just stops guiding and that is it. Should the

clouds be gone and your guidestar is aprox. there where it was left

and it is inside the detecting circle GuideDog takes it over again.



I guess there must be a difference for a guiding software that costs

maybe a 100 bucks or more and the one which is free :-)))



regards Rainer



----------------------------

#24719 Mar 15, 2005

Greg,



I have seen the results impressive results of PEMPro on an AP1200 and

I can tell you that the owner still autoguides. I would venture to

say that the number of people working at 3200mm unguided is small or

perhaps non-existant. PEC is fine, but don't know of any imagers

that would call it a substitute for guiding at those kind of focal

lengths.



I am also unaware of an autoguiding system that will send the mount

off on an "frolic" if the guide star is lost. Most simply stop

guiding until the guide star reappears.



I think that your standard may be a bit tough to apply to a mount in

this price range. If you are willing to spend $10k, then perhaps you

can image at a short to moderate focal lengths unguided, but from

what I have seen, most folks still guide. The G-11 is not perfect,

but it is very good value for the money. It is certainly a very

usable platform for CCD work, IMO. Take a look around at the work

being done with them.



Marty



--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Crawford" gc@n...>

wrote: > > Oooh, Greg! You wouldn't be justifying a Titan purchase by any

> > chance, now would you? :-)

>

> If only! ;-)

>

> > Periodic error needs correction? Not with the precision worm. My

PE > > is less than +/-2 arcseconds. Even on G11s where PE is greater,

it's > > still smooth enough that an autoguider will easily handle it,

with no > > need for PEC.

>

> I bought the new worm. The PE is nothing like as small as +/-2 arc

seconds. More > like +6/-5 arc seconds as detected by PEMPro.

>

> > Ruined shots due to PE being too large? At 2600mm focal length,

I've > > yet to ruin a single 20 minute exposure due to tracking or PE.

>

> A typical C11 operating at its native ratio of f/10 with CCD

attached has a much > longer focal length than that. More like 3200 mm. At this focal

length, the > errors in the G11's tracking are obvious and creates flaws with

imaging. >

> > Maybe you've had a bad experience with your G11 but please don't

> > generalize from one example -- it's just poor statistics to do so.

>

> Today's standard is unguided imaging. Guiding is fine if you don't

have clouds > that come across and send the guider off on a frolic of its own.

Not to speak of > sudden jerks in the G11' tracking. A good mount is one you can let

script all > night, not one you have to baby-sit in case it throws a tantrum.

>

> > There are good reasons to buy a Titan, but G11's unsuitability to

CCD > > imaging is certainly not one of them.

>

> I guess we differ.

>

> - Greg







----------------------------

#24721 Mar 15, 2005

Hi Greg,



--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Crawford" gc@n...>

wrote: >

> I bought the new worm. The PE is nothing like as small as +/-2 arc

seconds. More > like +6/-5 arc seconds as detected by PEMPro.



That's still reasonable, as long as there's no sudden jumps. If you

have sudden jumps your worm is bad, or you have dirt in your grease,

or the mount is not properly adjusted.

> A typical C11 operating at its native ratio of f/10 with CCD

attached has a much > longer focal length than that. More like 3200 mm. At this focal

length, the > errors in the G11's tracking are obvious and creates flaws with

imaging.



I often question my own sanity when imaging at 2600mm. That

translates to about 0.5 arcseconds/pixel -- way oversampled for my

seeing conditions (best seeing is about 2.4", more often above 3").

Have you thought of using a reducer?

> Today's standard is unguided imaging. Guiding is fine if you don't

have clouds > that come across and send the guider off on a frolic of its own.

Not to speak of > sudden jerks in the G11' tracking. A good mount is one you can let

script all > night, not one you have to baby-sit in case it throws a tantrum.



At $3K, I've yet to see a single mount that can take unguided shots

at 2600mm, much less at 3200mm. My G11 comes close: I can go for a

couple of minutes at 2600mm with decent results. Then, the mirror

flop ruins it, not the mount.



It's not a fair comparison to pit it against mounts at twice to four

times the price. If money is no object, go for one of the Bisque ME

mounts. They have very low PE, are very scriptable, cost a ton, and

require very little in the way of adjustment (may still need the worm-

mesh adjustment, though).

>

> > There are good reasons to buy a Titan, but G11's unsuitability to

CCD > > imaging is certainly not one of them.

>

> I guess we differ.



I guess we do. Your definition of imaging seems to be "unguided at

3200mm FL". I think this is an unreasonable definition of imaging

requirements for most imagers, not just with a G11, but with most

mounts.



-Paul



----------------------------

#24722 Mar 15, 2005

It's not a fair comparison to pit it against mounts at twice to four

> times the price. If money is no object, go for one of the Bisque ME

> mounts. They have very low PE, are very scriptable, cost a ton, and

> require very little in the way of adjustment (may still need the worm-

> mesh adjustment, though).



If you argue along the lines, "for the cost", yes, I may be inclined to agree

with you. At the moment, I can't afford anything better. However, that doesn't

make it a good mount for imaging. Knowing it was good value for the cost will

not stop the endless frustration.



When I look back at all the amounts of money I have spent on various forms of

astronomical gear, I think, "what a fool!" I should have saved that money and

spent it on a better mount *before* anything else.



- Greg



----------------------------

#24723 Mar 15, 2005

I understand your frustration, Greg.



G11 is not meant for unguided imaging at long focal lengths. If

that's what you thought it could do, you were misled. The ad copy for

G11 clearly stated (still does?) +/-5 arsecond PE. That would

automatically exclude this mount for your purposes.



I certainly wouldn't fault G11 for not being able to do what it was

never designed to do. I still stand by the statement that it is a

very capable mount within the scope of the original design. And it is

well suited to ccd imaging, albeit, guided.







--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Crawford" gc@n...>

wrote: > > It's not a fair comparison to pit it against mounts at twice to

four > > times the price. If money is no object, go for one of the Bisque

ME > > mounts. They have very low PE, are very scriptable, cost a ton,

and > > require very little in the way of adjustment (may still need the

worm- > > mesh adjustment, though).

>

> If you argue along the lines, "for the cost", yes, I may be

inclined to agree > with you. At the moment, I can't afford anything better. However,

that doesn't > make it a good mount for imaging. Knowing it was good value for the

cost will > not stop the endless frustration.

>

> When I look back at all the amounts of money I have spent on

various forms of > astronomical gear, I think, "what a fool!" I should have saved that

money and > spent it on a better mount *before* anything else.

>

> - Greg



----------------------------

#24729 Mar 15, 2005

I understand your frustration, Greg.

>

> G11 is not meant for unguided imaging at long focal lengths. If

> that's what you thought it could do, you were misled. The ad copy for

> G11 clearly stated (still does?) +/-5 arsecond PE. That would

> automatically exclude this mount for your purposes.



Paul,



We may be arguing at cross purposes. I do not want to give the impression that I

think advertising for the G11 is deceptive. Mine just came with the purchase of

a C11. All I want to suggest, to anyone considering a purchase, is put your

priority on the best mount you can get, even if that means postponing purchase

for a while. In the Losmandy range, that is a Titan. (Since this is a Losmandy

list, I don't want to be recommending any other possibility.)



- Greg







----------------------------

#24731 Mar 15, 2005

No Disrespect to anyone but when you state that your mount came with

a C-11 I feel their are 2 important question. Important to me that

is :) 1: Is it a Celestron/G-11. 2: Did you purchase it new. I can

only go by memory ( and many Celestron/G-11 owners may disagree )but

at the time the C-14 was sold on the Celestron/G11 mount, I remember

reading something about the Quality of those mounts being subpar

compared to the Losmandy stamped version...and these mounts were

*not* identical to the ones that Losmandy produced. I do not remeber

the specifics but either some components were differnt or the

manufacturing, materials, assembly or whatever actually gave you

something a little different than what you would have got if you

purchased one from Losmandy. Now those G-11 that carried a C-14 were

worked hard and were probably at their weight limit photographically

to say the least. To add to that, a lot of people start tinkering

with their mounts before they even are familiar with the mounts good

points or short comings. I would not doubt that a lot of these

mounts that have been passed around probably have been *misadjusted*

so many times that the main gear is no longer what it should

be...and by that point in time a new worm gear will not help it.



You may have purchased the mount new and know the history of

it...such as it may have never worked right. Losmandy came out with

high preceision gears, but Losmandy has always upgraded their mounts

regardless. So was the upgrade really due to a problem? Probably

since a lot of people appear to have better results after adding the

new worm gear.



But here is what I feel is the biggest point of all. I have never

heard of anyone that had a bad mount state that it was returned to

be corrected??? Untill I hear of a mount that did not work... and

was returned to Losmandy and he could not get it to work...I would

have to really be skeptical to whethr the problem was not created by

the user. This is an expensive piece of equipment and it would be

silly to agree to take possesion of a mount that does not work while

it is still under warranty or for any other reason.



A lot of people perfrom maintanence on their mounts. That is a good

thing if you are able to put it back together again without a loss

in performance. Me...I will never touch my mount, even for maintance

untill there is a problem...no problem....no maintanence. Sidereal

rate shouln't cause to much damage :) Also long focal length imaging

is tough and the SCT makes it even tougher. I purchased my mount new

and it still has the original old style worm. It images and

autoguides like a charm...though it carries a light weight with a

short focal length.



I would have to disagree to save your money for a Titan unless

weight is an issue. I think both the G-11 and the Titan are the best

in their class for the money. The G-11 can carry a fairly heavy load

for imaging and I do not belive you can find a mount even close in

price that can carry nearly as much...even if 60lbs is overated.

P.S. I also have a Titan.I Have not used it much yet. I hope I am as

happy with that mount as I am with my G-11. Take care, Wayne

www.wayne-cooper.com



--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Crawford" gc@n...>

wrote: > > I understand your frustration, Greg.

> >

> > G11 is not meant for unguided imaging at long focal lengths. If

> > that's what you thought it could do, you were misled. The ad

copy for > > G11 clearly stated (still does?) +/-5 arsecond PE. That would

> > automatically exclude this mount for your purposes.

>

> Paul,

>

> We may be arguing at cross purposes. I do not want to give the

impression that I > think advertising for the G11 is deceptive. Mine just came with

the purchase of > a C11. All I want to suggest, to anyone considering a purchase, is

put your > priority on the best mount you can get, even if that means

postponing purchase > for a while. In the Losmandy range, that is a Titan. (Since this

is a Losmandy > list, I don't want to be recommending any other possibility.)

>

> - Greg



----------------------------

#24732 Mar 16, 2005

I would have to disagree to save your money for a Titan unless

> weight is an issue. I think both the G-11 and the Titan are the best

> in their class for the money. The G-11 can carry a fairly heavy load

> for imaging and I do not belive you can find a mount even close in

> price that can carry nearly as much...even if 60lbs is overated.

> P.S. I also have a Titan.I Have not used it much yet. I hope I am as

> happy with that mount as I am with my G-11. Take care, Wayne

> www.wayne-cooper.com



Wayne,



I've had the G11 from new. It's only ever had the C11 on it. I'm quite familiar

with the operations and internal workings of it, which are quite simple. I'd ask

you to look at the way the Titan meshes the worm with the wheel and compare it

with the G11. My understanding from a dealer is that the Titan design includes a

big improvement in the gear train.



I like to script my operations, and guiding with the scripting of multiple

targets is a real problematic area. So unguided imaging is the way to go.



- Greg







----------------------------

#24734 Mar 16, 2005

Hi Greg and thanks for the insight. If you are writing software to

controll the mount your knowledge of the mounts workings are way

above mine. I have a heavy Meade 14" OTA on the Titan. And have not

had a lot of time or clear skies for imaging. I hope it is( and

should be ) Much better than my G-11, though my G-11 really

impresses me. Their have been others that have had problems with

their G-11. It is good that you know the history of your mount since

you purchased new. If something goes wrong you can be certain it

wasn't caused by what someone else may have done to it. The only

problem with the Titan is that they just had a price increase,

$1000.00. If you plan on purchasing (or anyone else for that matter)

and you act now, one of the Dealers or even Losmandy may still honor

the old price. I believe one other person mentioned they were able

to get the old price shortly after the increase. Take care, Wayne



P.S. Are you crazy!!! ME take a look at how the gears mesh???? I'll

never get it back together again, and it would probably track in the

opposite direction :) just kidding but I know one of these days I

am going to have to become more familiar with the internal

components>



--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Crawford" gc@n...>

wrote: > > I would have to disagree to save your money for a Titan unless

> > weight is an issue. I think both the G-11 and the Titan are the

best > > in their class for the money. The G-11 can carry a fairly heavy

load > > for imaging and I do not belive you can find a mount even close

in > > price that can carry nearly as much...even if 60lbs is overated.

> > P.S. I also have a Titan.I Have not used it much yet. I hope I

am as > > happy with that mount as I am with my G-11. Take care, Wayne

> > www.wayne-cooper.com

>

> Wayne,

>

> I've had the G11 from new. It's only ever had the C11 on it. I'm

quite familiar > with the operations and internal workings of it, which are quite

simple. I'd ask > you to look at the way the Titan meshes the worm with the wheel

and compare it > with the G11. My understanding from a dealer is that the Titan

design includes a > big improvement in the gear train.

>

> I like to script my operations, and guiding with the scripting of

multiple > targets is a real problematic area. So unguided imaging is the way

to go. >

> - Greg



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