VintageBigBlue.org

 

Re: PEC Training with Handcontroller


Sep 27, 2008

 


----------------------------

#40021 Sep 27, 2008

All:



Did some PEC training for the first time last night and have a few

questions....



Was decently polar aligned with Drift Alignment before starting (could

keep a star for 10 minutes in in center of crosshair reticle eyepiece

on each axis)



Setup is a GM8 with Ovision worm installed, Gemini Level 4, Crosshair

10mm reticle eyepiece into a 2.5x Powermate into a WO 80mm triplet.



Did 4 PEC Training runs

Averaged the runs (after each training sequence)

Applied Drift Correction

Applied Delay Correction of +14 (i.e. essentially 1 second for the

GM8....a question here....do you use a + or - before the delay

correction amount...it suprised me that you can change the sign on the

handcontroller?)



Result:



After PEC Training, I decided to view the result so I watched the star

in the crosshairs with PEC OFF...for about 10+/- minutes, quite nice

and the star staying in the center of the reticle with minor movement

to left and right.



PEC ON: Watched for about 10+/- minutes....resulted in substantial

drift to the east.....if training had gone well, I would have expected

the star to stay even more centered in the crosshair with less left

and right movement...am I wrong?



Conclusion: Was much better with PEC off.



Funny thing was, I was thinking of trying Pempro last night but

thought I would try things manually first to see and try to understand

my mount and PEC better. In a sense, glad I did. However, is Manual

PEC training inherently difficult and that is why software such as

Pempro are popular?



Or, did I do something wrong in Delay Correction entry?



BTW, did not apply a Smoothing correction.



Any input would be greatly appreciated. BTW, the Ovision worm is much

more stable than the original worm that came with the scope...visually

watching things, the stock worm does not come close.



Don



----------------------------

#40028 Sep 27, 2008

Don, I think you've confirmed something others have found while using

PemPro to train PEC: PEC introduces a significant drift in RA.



This has been mentioned by many in the past, and I've certainly seen

it many times on my own setup. Your experience confirms that the

problem is with Gemini and not PemPro.



The good thing is that PemPro gives you an option to remove this

inherent drift in the PEC data. I think this is impossible to do with

the hand controller.



Regards,



-Paul

--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Don Singer" don@...> wrote:

>

> All:

>

> Did some PEC training for the first time last night and have a few

> questions....

>

> Was decently polar aligned with Drift Alignment before starting

(could

> keep a star for 10 minutes in in center of crosshair reticle

eyepiece

> on each axis)

>

> Setup is a GM8 with Ovision worm installed, Gemini Level 4,

Crosshair

> 10mm reticle eyepiece into a 2.5x Powermate into a WO 80mm triplet.

>

> Did 4 PEC Training runs

> Averaged the runs (after each training sequence)

> Applied Drift Correction

> Applied Delay Correction of +14 (i.e. essentially 1 second for the

> GM8....a question here....do you use a + or - before the delay

> correction amount...it suprised me that you can change the sign on

the

> handcontroller?)

>

> Result:

>

> After PEC Training, I decided to view the result so I watched the

star

> in the crosshairs with PEC OFF...for about 10+/- minutes, quite nice

> and the star staying in the center of the reticle with minor

movement

> to left and right.

>

> PEC ON: Watched for about 10+/- minutes....resulted in substantial

> drift to the east.....if training had gone well, I would have

expected

> the star to stay even more centered in the crosshair with less left

> and right movement...am I wrong?

>

> Conclusion: Was much better with PEC off.

>

> Funny thing was, I was thinking of trying Pempro last night but

> thought I would try things manually first to see and try to

understand

> my mount and PEC better. In a sense, glad I did. However, is Manual

> PEC training inherently difficult and that is why software such as

> Pempro are popular?

>

> Or, did I do something wrong in Delay Correction entry?

>

> BTW, did not apply a Smoothing correction.

>

> Any input would be greatly appreciated. BTW, the Ovision worm is

much

> more stable than the original worm that came with the

scope...visually

> watching things, the stock worm does not come close.

>

> Don

>



----------------------------

#40031 Sep 27, 2008

Paul:



Thanks so much for the reply.....at least I am not crazy:).



Actually, I have not used Pempro yet; I have it and was going to use

it, but thought I would try handcontrolled PEC training first to

better understand what is going on. I was quite suprised at what I

saw. And, this experience is a good thing...I now know to work on

eliminating the RA drift once I use Pempro...



Thanks,

Don

--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Paul K" pkane2001@...> wrote:

>

> Don, I think you've confirmed something others have found while using

> PemPro to train PEC: PEC introduces a significant drift in RA.

>

> This has been mentioned by many in the past, and I've certainly seen

> it many times on my own setup. Your experience confirms that the

> problem is with Gemini and not PemPro.

>

> The good thing is that PemPro gives you an option to remove this

> inherent drift in the PEC data. I think this is impossible to do with

> the hand controller.

>

> Regards,

>

> -Paul

>

> --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Don Singer" don@> wrote:

> >

> > All:

> >

> > Did some PEC training for the first time last night and have a few

> > questions....

> >

> > Was decently polar aligned with Drift Alignment before starting

> (could

> > keep a star for 10 minutes in in center of crosshair reticle

> eyepiece

> > on each axis)

> >

> > Setup is a GM8 with Ovision worm installed, Gemini Level 4,

> Crosshair

> > 10mm reticle eyepiece into a 2.5x Powermate into a WO 80mm triplet.

> >

> > Did 4 PEC Training runs

> > Averaged the runs (after each training sequence)

> > Applied Drift Correction

> > Applied Delay Correction of +14 (i.e. essentially 1 second for the

> > GM8....a question here....do you use a + or - before the delay

> > correction amount...it suprised me that you can change the sign on

> the

> > handcontroller?)

> >

> > Result:

> >

> > After PEC Training, I decided to view the result so I watched the

> star

> > in the crosshairs with PEC OFF...for about 10+/- minutes, quite nice

> > and the star staying in the center of the reticle with minor

> movement

> > to left and right.

> >

> > PEC ON: Watched for about 10+/- minutes....resulted in substantial

> > drift to the east.....if training had gone well, I would have

> expected

> > the star to stay even more centered in the crosshair with less left

> > and right movement...am I wrong?

> >

> > Conclusion: Was much better with PEC off.

> >

> > Funny thing was, I was thinking of trying Pempro last night but

> > thought I would try things manually first to see and try to

> understand

> > my mount and PEC better. In a sense, glad I did. However, is Manual

> > PEC training inherently difficult and that is why software such as

> > Pempro are popular?

> >

> > Or, did I do something wrong in Delay Correction entry?

> >

> > BTW, did not apply a Smoothing correction.

> >

> > Any input would be greatly appreciated. BTW, the Ovision worm is

> much

> > more stable than the original worm that came with the

> scope...visually

> > watching things, the stock worm does not come close.

> >

> > Don

> >

>







----------------------------

#40032 Sep 27, 2008

Paul:



You mentioned that:



"The good thing is that PemPro gives you an option to remove this

inherent drift in the PEC data"......what control/function is this in

Pempro that allows one to do this?



Thanks,

Don

--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Paul K" pkane2001@...> wrote:

>

> Don, I think you've confirmed something others have found while using

> PemPro to train PEC: PEC introduces a significant drift in RA.

>

> This has been mentioned by many in the past, and I've certainly seen

> it many times on my own setup. Your experience confirms that the

> problem is with Gemini and not PemPro.

>

> The good thing is that PemPro gives you an option to remove this

> inherent drift in the PEC data. I think this is impossible to do with

> the hand controller.

>

> Regards,

>

> -Paul

>

> --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Don Singer" don@> wrote:

> >

> > All:

> >

> > Did some PEC training for the first time last night and have a few

> > questions....

> >

> > Was decently polar aligned with Drift Alignment before starting

> (could

> > keep a star for 10 minutes in in center of crosshair reticle

> eyepiece

> > on each axis)

> >

> > Setup is a GM8 with Ovision worm installed, Gemini Level 4,

> Crosshair

> > 10mm reticle eyepiece into a 2.5x Powermate into a WO 80mm triplet.

> >

> > Did 4 PEC Training runs

> > Averaged the runs (after each training sequence)

> > Applied Drift Correction

> > Applied Delay Correction of +14 (i.e. essentially 1 second for the

> > GM8....a question here....do you use a + or - before the delay

> > correction amount...it suprised me that you can change the sign on

> the

> > handcontroller?)

> >

> > Result:

> >

> > After PEC Training, I decided to view the result so I watched the

> star

> > in the crosshairs with PEC OFF...for about 10+/- minutes, quite nice

> > and the star staying in the center of the reticle with minor

> movement

> > to left and right.

> >

> > PEC ON: Watched for about 10+/- minutes....resulted in substantial

> > drift to the east.....if training had gone well, I would have

> expected

> > the star to stay even more centered in the crosshair with less left

> > and right movement...am I wrong?

> >

> > Conclusion: Was much better with PEC off.

> >

> > Funny thing was, I was thinking of trying Pempro last night but

> > thought I would try things manually first to see and try to

> understand

> > my mount and PEC better. In a sense, glad I did. However, is Manual

> > PEC training inherently difficult and that is why software such as

> > Pempro are popular?

> >

> > Or, did I do something wrong in Delay Correction entry?

> >

> > BTW, did not apply a Smoothing correction.

> >

> > Any input would be greatly appreciated. BTW, the Ovision worm is

> much

> > more stable than the original worm that came with the

> scope...visually

> > watching things, the stock worm does not come close.

> >

> > Don

> >

>



----------------------------

#40037 Sep 27, 2008

Don, take a look at this thread in the PemPro support forum. There's

a post there by Ray Gralak (author of PemPro) with a screen shot and

an explanation of how to adjust out the drift:



ccdware.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/401101098/m/3351042152



Regards,



-Paul

--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Don Singer" don@...> wrote:

>

> Paul:

>

> You mentioned that:

>

> "The good thing is that PemPro gives you an option to remove this

> inherent drift in the PEC data"......what control/function is this

in

> Pempro that allows one to do this?

>

> Thanks,

> Don

>

> --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Paul K" pkane2001@> wrote:

> >

> > Don, I think you've confirmed something others have found while

using

> > PemPro to train PEC: PEC introduces a significant drift in RA.

> >

> > This has been mentioned by many in the past, and I've certainly

seen

> > it many times on my own setup. Your experience confirms that the

> > problem is with Gemini and not PemPro.

> >

> > The good thing is that PemPro gives you an option to remove this

> > inherent drift in the PEC data. I think this is impossible to do

with

> > the hand controller.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > -Paul

> >

> > --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Don Singer" don@> wrote:

> > >

> > > All:

> > >

> > > Did some PEC training for the first time last night and have a

few

> > > questions....

> > >

> > > Was decently polar aligned with Drift Alignment before starting

> > (could

> > > keep a star for 10 minutes in in center of crosshair reticle

> > eyepiece

> > > on each axis)

> > >

> > > Setup is a GM8 with Ovision worm installed, Gemini Level 4,

> > Crosshair

> > > 10mm reticle eyepiece into a 2.5x Powermate into a WO 80mm

triplet.

> > >

> > > Did 4 PEC Training runs

> > > Averaged the runs (after each training sequence)

> > > Applied Drift Correction

> > > Applied Delay Correction of +14 (i.e. essentially 1 second for

the

> > > GM8....a question here....do you use a + or - before the delay

> > > correction amount...it suprised me that you can change the sign

on

> > the

> > > handcontroller?)

> > >

> > > Result:

> > >

> > > After PEC Training, I decided to view the result so I watched

the

> > star

> > > in the crosshairs with PEC OFF...for about 10+/- minutes, quite

nice

> > > and the star staying in the center of the reticle with minor

> > movement

> > > to left and right.

> > >

> > > PEC ON: Watched for about 10+/- minutes....resulted in

substantial

> > > drift to the east.....if training had gone well, I would have

> > expected

> > > the star to stay even more centered in the crosshair with less

left

> > > and right movement...am I wrong?

> > >

> > > Conclusion: Was much better with PEC off.

> > >

> > > Funny thing was, I was thinking of trying Pempro last night but

> > > thought I would try things manually first to see and try to

> > understand

> > > my mount and PEC better. In a sense, glad I did. However, is

Manual

> > > PEC training inherently difficult and that is why software such

as

> > > Pempro are popular?

> > >

> > > Or, did I do something wrong in Delay Correction entry?

> > >

> > > BTW, did not apply a Smoothing correction.

> > >

> > > Any input would be greatly appreciated. BTW, the Ovision worm

is

> > much

> > > more stable than the original worm that came with the

> > scope...visually

> > > watching things, the stock worm does not come close.

> > >

> > > Don

> > >

> >

>







----------------------------

#40055 Sep 29, 2008

Paul:



Great...thanks. BTW, I imaged the other night without PEC on, with my

new Ovision worm on my GM8. With the stock GM8 worm, the best unguided

shots I could get with a but a 35% yield of good shots was about 30

seconds. With the worm, I got over 65% yield on 75 second

shots...quite an improvement!



Will check out the link.



Thanks,

Don

--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Paul K" pkane2001@...> wrote:

>

> Don, take a look at this thread in the PemPro support forum. There's

> a post there by Ray Gralak (author of PemPro) with a screen shot and

> an explanation of how to adjust out the drift:

>

> ccdware.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/401101098/m/3351042152

>

> Regards,

>

> -Paul

>

> --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Don Singer" don@> wrote:

> >

> > Paul:

> >

> > You mentioned that:

> >

> > "The good thing is that PemPro gives you an option to remove this

> > inherent drift in the PEC data"......what control/function is this

> in

> > Pempro that allows one to do this?

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Don

> >

> > --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Paul K" pkane2001@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Don, I think you've confirmed something others have found while

> using

> > > PemPro to train PEC: PEC introduces a significant drift in RA.

> > >

> > > This has been mentioned by many in the past, and I've certainly

> seen

> > > it many times on my own setup. Your experience confirms that the

> > > problem is with Gemini and not PemPro.

> > >

> > > The good thing is that PemPro gives you an option to remove this

> > > inherent drift in the PEC data. I think this is impossible to do

> with

> > > the hand controller.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > -Paul

> > >

> > > --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Don Singer" don@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > All:

> > > >

> > > > Did some PEC training for the first time last night and have a

> few

> > > > questions....

> > > >

> > > > Was decently polar aligned with Drift Alignment before starting

> > > (could

> > > > keep a star for 10 minutes in in center of crosshair reticle

> > > eyepiece

> > > > on each axis)

> > > >

> > > > Setup is a GM8 with Ovision worm installed, Gemini Level 4,

> > > Crosshair

> > > > 10mm reticle eyepiece into a 2.5x Powermate into a WO 80mm

> triplet.

> > > >

> > > > Did 4 PEC Training runs

> > > > Averaged the runs (after each training sequence)

> > > > Applied Drift Correction

> > > > Applied Delay Correction of +14 (i.e. essentially 1 second for

> the

> > > > GM8....a question here....do you use a + or - before the delay

> > > > correction amount...it suprised me that you can change the sign

> on

> > > the

> > > > handcontroller?)

> > > >

> > > > Result:

> > > >

> > > > After PEC Training, I decided to view the result so I watched

> the

> > > star

> > > > in the crosshairs with PEC OFF...for about 10+/- minutes, quite

> nice

> > > > and the star staying in the center of the reticle with minor

> > > movement

> > > > to left and right.

> > > >

> > > > PEC ON: Watched for about 10+/- minutes....resulted in

> substantial

> > > > drift to the east.....if training had gone well, I would have

> > > expected

> > > > the star to stay even more centered in the crosshair with less

> left

> > > > and right movement...am I wrong?

> > > >

> > > > Conclusion: Was much better with PEC off.

> > > >

> > > > Funny thing was, I was thinking of trying Pempro last night but

> > > > thought I would try things manually first to see and try to

> > > understand

> > > > my mount and PEC better. In a sense, glad I did. However, is

> Manual

> > > > PEC training inherently difficult and that is why software such

> as

> > > > Pempro are popular?

> > > >

> > > > Or, did I do something wrong in Delay Correction entry?

> > > >

> > > > BTW, did not apply a Smoothing correction.

> > > >

> > > > Any input would be greatly appreciated. BTW, the Ovision worm

> is

> > > much

> > > > more stable than the original worm that came with the

> > > scope...visually

> > > > watching things, the stock worm does not come close.

> > > >

> > > > Don

> > > >

> > >

> >

>



----------------------------

#40056 Sep 29, 2008

Hi Don,

That is quite a lot of improvement!

Floyd --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Don Singer" don@...> wrote:

>

> Paul:

>

> Great...thanks. BTW, I imaged the other night without PEC on, with my

> new Ovision worm on my GM8. With the stock GM8 worm, the best unguided

> shots I could get with a but a 35% yield of good shots was about 30

> seconds. With the worm, I got over 65% yield on 75 second

> shots...quite an improvement!

>

> Will check out the link.

>

> Thanks,

> Don

>

> --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Paul K" pkane2001@> wrote:

> >

> > Don, take a look at this thread in the PemPro support forum. There's

> > a post there by Ray Gralak (author of PemPro) with a screen shot and

> > an explanation of how to adjust out the drift:

> >

> > ccdware.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/401101098/m/3351042152

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > -Paul

> >

> > --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Don Singer" don@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Paul:

> > >

> > > You mentioned that:

> > >

> > > "The good thing is that PemPro gives you an option to remove this

> > > inherent drift in the PEC data"......what control/function is this

> > in

> > > Pempro that allows one to do this?

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Don

> > >

> > > --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Paul K" pkane2001@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Don, I think you've confirmed something others have found while

> > using

> > > > PemPro to train PEC: PEC introduces a significant drift in RA.

> > > >

> > > > This has been mentioned by many in the past, and I've certainly

> > seen

> > > > it many times on my own setup. Your experience confirms that the

> > > > problem is with Gemini and not PemPro.

> > > >

> > > > The good thing is that PemPro gives you an option to remove this

> > > > inherent drift in the PEC data. I think this is impossible to do

> > with

> > > > the hand controller.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > -Paul

> > > >

> > > > --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Don Singer" don@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > All:

> > > > >

> > > > > Did some PEC training for the first time last night and have a

> > few

> > > > > questions....

> > > > >

> > > > > Was decently polar aligned with Drift Alignment before starting

> > > > (could

> > > > > keep a star for 10 minutes in in center of crosshair reticle

> > > > eyepiece

> > > > > on each axis)

> > > > >

> > > > > Setup is a GM8 with Ovision worm installed, Gemini Level 4,

> > > > Crosshair

> > > > > 10mm reticle eyepiece into a 2.5x Powermate into a WO 80mm

> > triplet.

> > > > >

> > > > > Did 4 PEC Training runs

> > > > > Averaged the runs (after each training sequence)

> > > > > Applied Drift Correction

> > > > > Applied Delay Correction of +14 (i.e. essentially 1 second for

> > the

> > > > > GM8....a question here....do you use a + or - before the delay

> > > > > correction amount...it suprised me that you can change the sign

> > on

> > > > the

> > > > > handcontroller?)

> > > > >

> > > > > Result:

> > > > >

> > > > > After PEC Training, I decided to view the result so I watched

> > the

> > > > star

> > > > > in the crosshairs with PEC OFF...for about 10+/- minutes, quite

> > nice

> > > > > and the star staying in the center of the reticle with minor

> > > > movement

> > > > > to left and right.

> > > > >

> > > > > PEC ON: Watched for about 10+/- minutes....resulted in

> > substantial

> > > > > drift to the east.....if training had gone well, I would have

> > > > expected

> > > > > the star to stay even more centered in the crosshair with less

> > left

> > > > > and right movement...am I wrong?

> > > > >

> > > > > Conclusion: Was much better with PEC off.

> > > > >

> > > > > Funny thing was, I was thinking of trying Pempro last night but

> > > > > thought I would try things manually first to see and try to

> > > > understand

> > > > > my mount and PEC better. In a sense, glad I did. However, is

> > Manual

> > > > > PEC training inherently difficult and that is why software such

> > as

> > > > > Pempro are popular?

> > > > >

> > > > > Or, did I do something wrong in Delay Correction entry?

> > > > >

> > > > > BTW, did not apply a Smoothing correction.

> > > > >

> > > > > Any input would be greatly appreciated. BTW, the Ovision worm

> > is

> > > > much

> > > > > more stable than the original worm that came with the

> > > > scope...visually

> > > > > watching things, the stock worm does not come close.

> > > > >

> > > > > Don

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>







----------------------------

#40058 Sep 30, 2008

Floyd:



Yeah, it is quite an improvement....I started off with my usual 30

second exposures and watched as many of my shots had round stars. That

just did not happen with such frequency with the stock worm.



So, I decided to bump it up a little to 45 seconds...same thing...so,

I went for gusto and went to 75 seconds. At that point, things

deteriorated and I was yielding much less, obviously (using a 480mm FL

80mm WO Triplet). However, some of that was due to a 5-10 mph breeze

that kicked up; so, my yield definately decreased. Within the hour the

breeze had kicked up over 10mph and everything went to pot.



Love this worm. Now, I plan on learning to program the GM8 with Pempro

to see if I can get decent 90 second shots with a high yield (90s is

about as far as I want to go as I am close to downtown Portland, OR);

just need to learn how to get Pempro to counteract the RA drift you

get from the Gemini when it is programmed for PEC...have read some

stuff that Ray has posted, so next few clear nights (will there be one

until next June?:)), I will PEC rather than image.



Cordially,

Don



--- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Floyd Blue" fblue@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Don,

> That is quite a lot of improvement!

> Floyd

> --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Don Singer" don@> wrote:

> >

> > Paul:

> >

> > Great...thanks. BTW, I imaged the other night without PEC on, with my

> > new Ovision worm on my GM8. With the stock GM8 worm, the best unguided

> > shots I could get with a but a 35% yield of good shots was about 30

> > seconds. With the worm, I got over 65% yield on 75 second

> > shots...quite an improvement!

> >

> > Will check out the link.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Don

> >

> > --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Paul K" pkane2001@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Don, take a look at this thread in the PemPro support forum.

There's

> > > a post there by Ray Gralak (author of PemPro) with a screen shot

and

> > > an explanation of how to adjust out the drift:

> > >

> > > ccdware.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/401101098/m/3351042152

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > -Paul

> > >

> > > --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Don Singer" don@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Paul:

> > > >

> > > > You mentioned that:

> > > >

> > > > "The good thing is that PemPro gives you an option to remove this

> > > > inherent drift in the PEC data"......what control/function is

this

> > > in

> > > > Pempro that allows one to do this?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > > Don

> > > >

> > > > --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Paul K" pkane2001@>

wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Don, I think you've confirmed something others have found while

> > > using

> > > > > PemPro to train PEC: PEC introduces a significant drift in RA.

> > > > >

> > > > > This has been mentioned by many in the past, and I've certainly

> > > seen

> > > > > it many times on my own setup. Your experience confirms that

the

> > > > > problem is with Gemini and not PemPro.

> > > > >

> > > > > The good thing is that PemPro gives you an option to remove

this

> > > > > inherent drift in the PEC data. I think this is impossible

to do

> > > with

> > > > > the hand controller.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > -Paul

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Don Singer" don@>

wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > All:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Did some PEC training for the first time last night and

have a

> > > few

> > > > > > questions....

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Was decently polar aligned with Drift Alignment before

starting

> > > > > (could

> > > > > > keep a star for 10 minutes in in center of crosshair reticle

> > > > > eyepiece

> > > > > > on each axis)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Setup is a GM8 with Ovision worm installed, Gemini Level 4,

> > > > > Crosshair

> > > > > > 10mm reticle eyepiece into a 2.5x Powermate into a WO 80mm

> > > triplet.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Did 4 PEC Training runs

> > > > > > Averaged the runs (after each training sequence)

> > > > > > Applied Drift Correction

> > > > > > Applied Delay Correction of +14 (i.e. essentially 1 second

for

> > > the

> > > > > > GM8....a question here....do you use a + or - before the delay

> > > > > > correction amount...it suprised me that you can change the

sign

> > > on

> > > > > the

> > > > > > handcontroller?)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Result:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > After PEC Training, I decided to view the result so I watched

> > > the

> > > > > star

> > > > > > in the crosshairs with PEC OFF...for about 10+/- minutes,

quite

> > > nice

> > > > > > and the star staying in the center of the reticle with minor

> > > > > movement

> > > > > > to left and right.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > PEC ON: Watched for about 10+/- minutes....resulted in

> > > substantial

> > > > > > drift to the east.....if training had gone well, I would have

> > > > > expected

> > > > > > the star to stay even more centered in the crosshair with

less

> > > left

> > > > > > and right movement...am I wrong?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Conclusion: Was much better with PEC off.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Funny thing was, I was thinking of trying Pempro last

night but

> > > > > > thought I would try things manually first to see and try to

> > > > > understand

> > > > > > my mount and PEC better. In a sense, glad I did. However, is

> > > Manual

> > > > > > PEC training inherently difficult and that is why software

such

> > > as

> > > > > > Pempro are popular?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Or, did I do something wrong in Delay Correction entry?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > BTW, did not apply a Smoothing correction.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Any input would be greatly appreciated. BTW, the Ovision worm

> > > is

> > > > > much

> > > > > > more stable than the original worm that came with the

> > > > > scope...visually

> > > > > > watching things, the stock worm does not come close.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Don

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>







----------------------------

#40061 Sep 30, 2008

Hi Don,

The wind will really mess up your photos, no doubt about it. I would

think it might have been a big influence.

Floyd --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Don Singer" don@...> wrote:

>

> Floyd:

>

> Yeah, it is quite an improvement....I started off with my usual 30

> second exposures and watched as many of my shots had round stars. That

> just did not happen with such frequency with the stock worm.

>

> So, I decided to bump it up a little to 45 seconds...same thing...so,

> I went for gusto and went to 75 seconds. At that point, things

> deteriorated and I was yielding much less, obviously (using a 480mm FL

> 80mm WO Triplet). However, some of that was due to a 5-10 mph breeze

> that kicked up; so, my yield definately decreased. Within the hour the

> breeze had kicked up over 10mph and everything went to pot.

>

> Love this worm. Now, I plan on learning to program the GM8 with Pempro

> to see if I can get decent 90 second shots with a high yield (90s is

> about as far as I want to go as I am close to downtown Portland, OR);

> just need to learn how to get Pempro to counteract the RA drift you

> get from the Gemini when it is programmed for PEC...have read some

> stuff that Ray has posted, so next few clear nights (will there be one

> until next June?:)), I will PEC rather than image.

>

> Cordially,

> Don

>

>

> --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Floyd Blue" fblue@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Don,

> > That is quite a lot of improvement!

> > Floyd

> > --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Don Singer" don@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Paul:

> > >

> > > Great...thanks. BTW, I imaged the other night without PEC on,

with my

> > > new Ovision worm on my GM8. With the stock GM8 worm, the best

unguided

> > > shots I could get with a but a 35% yield of good shots was about 30

> > > seconds. With the worm, I got over 65% yield on 75 second

> > > shots...quite an improvement!

> > >

> > > Will check out the link.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Don

> > >

> > > --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Paul K" pkane2001@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Don, take a look at this thread in the PemPro support forum.

> There's

> > > > a post there by Ray Gralak (author of PemPro) with a screen shot

> and

> > > > an explanation of how to adjust out the drift:

> > > >

> > > >

ccdware.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/401101098/m/3351042152

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > -Paul

> > > >

> > > > --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Don Singer" don@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Paul:

> > > > >

> > > > > You mentioned that:

> > > > >

> > > > > "The good thing is that PemPro gives you an option to remove

this

> > > > > inherent drift in the PEC data"......what control/function is

> this

> > > > in

> > > > > Pempro that allows one to do this?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > Don

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Paul K" pkane2001@>

> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Don, I think you've confirmed something others have found

while

> > > > using

> > > > > > PemPro to train PEC: PEC introduces a significant drift in RA.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This has been mentioned by many in the past, and I've

certainly

> > > > seen

> > > > > > it many times on my own setup. Your experience confirms that

> the

> > > > > > problem is with Gemini and not PemPro.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The good thing is that PemPro gives you an option to remove

> this

> > > > > > inherent drift in the PEC data. I think this is impossible

> to do

> > > > with

> > > > > > the hand controller.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -Paul

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In Losmandy_users@yahoogroups.com, "Don Singer" don@>

> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > All:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Did some PEC training for the first time last night and

> have a

> > > > few

> > > > > > > questions....

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Was decently polar aligned with Drift Alignment before

> starting

> > > > > > (could

> > > > > > > keep a star for 10 minutes in in center of crosshair

reticle

> > > > > > eyepiece

> > > > > > > on each axis)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Setup is a GM8 with Ovision worm installed, Gemini Level 4,

> > > > > > Crosshair

> > > > > > > 10mm reticle eyepiece into a 2.5x Powermate into a WO 80mm

> > > > triplet.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Did 4 PEC Training runs

> > > > > > > Averaged the runs (after each training sequence)

> > > > > > > Applied Drift Correction

> > > > > > > Applied Delay Correction of +14 (i.e. essentially 1 second

> for

> > > > the

> > > > > > > GM8....a question here....do you use a + or - before the

delay

> > > > > > > correction amount...it suprised me that you can change the

> sign

> > > > on

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > handcontroller?)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Result:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > After PEC Training, I decided to view the result so I

watched

> > > > the

> > > > > > star

> > > > > > > in the crosshairs with PEC OFF...for about 10+/- minutes,

> quite

> > > > nice

> > > > > > > and the star staying in the center of the reticle with

minor

> > > > > > movement

> > > > > > > to left and right.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > PEC ON: Watched for about 10+/- minutes....resulted in

> > > > substantial

> > > > > > > drift to the east.....if training had gone well, I would

have

> > > > > > expected

> > > > > > > the star to stay even more centered in the crosshair with

> less

> > > > left

> > > > > > > and right movement...am I wrong?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Conclusion: Was much better with PEC off.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Funny thing was, I was thinking of trying Pempro last

> night but

> > > > > > > thought I would try things manually first to see and try to

> > > > > > understand

> > > > > > > my mount and PEC better. In a sense, glad I did.

However, is

> > > > Manual

> > > > > > > PEC training inherently difficult and that is why software

> such

> > > > as

> > > > > > > Pempro are popular?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Or, did I do something wrong in Delay Correction entry?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > BTW, did not apply a Smoothing correction.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Any input would be greatly appreciated. BTW, the Ovision

worm

> > > > is

> > > > > > much

> > > > > > > more stable than the original worm that came with the

> > > > > > scope...visually

> > > > > > > watching things, the stock worm does not come close.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Don

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>







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