Fwd: [ap-gto] Polar Alignment - RA & Dec Fight


Sep 4, 2000

 


----------------------------

#2218 Sep 4, 2000

These devices seem to be 'out of production' by

Astro Physics :((((



Does anyone know of a souce for one, or how

some other brand (Gasp!!) might be easily

adapted to fit an Astro Physics mount ????



Best Regards,

Alex Pettit

Orlando Fla



----------------------------

#2219 Sep 4, 2000

Alex, you may like to ask AP if the Polarfinder is the same as the new

working Losmandy Polarfinder, if it is the same, than I can deliver tomorrow

from stock.



Markus

-----Urspr.ngliche Nachricht-----

Von: apettit@... apettit@...>

An: ap-ug@egroups.com ap-ug@egroups.com>

Datum: Montag, 4. September 2000 14:46

Betreff: [ap-ug] Polar Alignment Scopes ??



>These devices seem to be 'out of production' by

>Astro Physics

( >

>Does anyone know of a souce for one, or how

>some other brand (Gasp!!) might be easily

>adapted to fit an Astro Physics mount ????

>

>Best Regards,

>Alex Pettit

>Orlando Fla

>

>

>



----------------------------

#2221 Sep 4, 2000

Does anyone know of a souce for one, or how

> some other brand (Gasp!!) might be easily

> adapted to fit an Astro Physics mount ????

> Alex Pettit



Alex,



With the appropriate adapter, the Losmandy polar scope will work. You will

have to get the adapter machined on your own. AP has said on one of these

groups that new polar scopes are in the works, so you might wish to wait.



Gus



----------------------------

#2222 Sep 4, 2000

Try Astromart that's where I found mine. Or the Sbig or APML lists.



apettit@... wrote:

> These devices seem to be 'out of production' by

> Astro Physics :((((

>

> Does anyone know of a souce for one, or how

> some other brand (Gasp!!) might be easily

> adapted to fit an Astro Physics mount ????

>

> Best Regards,

> Alex Pettit

> Orlando Fla



--

Greg Mueller



I killed Kenny, m'kay?



----------------------------

#2224 Sep 4, 2000

Bret,



You might pick up the phone and talk to either Marj or Christine at AP.

Not too long ago they mentioned to me that they may be getting some in

again, but didn't commit to any time frame.



By the way, though it's not illuminated nor as good a quality as the AP,

the Mead polar scope will thread into the AP mounts perfectly. It may be

a "poor second", but if you feel the need for one you might try that.



Regards,



Paul Rodbell

Atlanta, GA



apettit@... wrote: >

> These devices seem to be 'out of production' by

> Astro Physics :((((

>

> Does anyone know of a souce for one, or how

> some other brand (Gasp!!) might be easily

> adapted to fit an Astro Physics mount ????

>

> Best Regards,

> Alex Pettit

> Orlando Fla



----------------------------

#2225 Sep 4, 2000

Hello Gus,

Thanks !



Are you familiar with the Losmandy star alignemnt pattern ?

Is it as easy to use / as accurate as, the AstroPhysics model ?



Also, Losmandy makes two units ... one for the G8/11 and

another for the HGM200. Are there differences design ? There

is in price.



Regards,

Alex P



>

> With the appropriate adapter, the Losmandy polar scope will work.

You will > have to get the adapter machined on your own. AP has said on one of

these > groups that new polar scopes are in the works, so you might wish to

wait. >

> Gus



----------------------------

#2228 Sep 4, 2000

Losmandy polar scope import and the Ap Polar scope are identical in

reticle pattern the last time I compared the two. The Losmandy

electronics for the illuminated reticle are poor.



Joe Castoro







apettit@... wrote: >

> Hello Gus,

> Thanks !

>

> Are you familiar with the Losmandy star alignemnt pattern ?

> Is it as easy to use / as accurate as, the AstroPhysics model ?

>

> Also, Losmandy makes two units ... one for the G8/11 and

> another for the HGM200. Are there differences design ? There

> is in price.

>

> Regards,

> Alex P

>

> >

> > With the appropriate adapter, the Losmandy polar scope will work.

> You will

> > have to get the adapter machined on your own. AP has said on one of

> these

> > groups that new polar scopes are in the works, so you might wish to

> wait.

> >

> > Gus



----------------------------

#2240 Sep 4, 2000

Paul:



Do you know if it is the Meade 812 or 814 finder or both that fit? I have a

600E (pre QMD).

The 814 is for their 650 and 750 mounts and the 812 is for the 300 and 500

mounts. Last spring AP told me they were looking at bringing back the polar

finder scope but so far its not here.



John Brinegar

----- Original Message -----

From: "Paul Rodbell" paul@...>

> By the way, though it's not illuminated nor as good a quality as the AP,

> the Mead polar scope will thread into the AP mounts perfectly. It may be

> a "poor second", but if you feel the need for one you might try that.

>

> Regards,

>

> Paul Rodbell

> Atlanta, GA







----------------------------

#2243 Sep 4, 2000

apettit@... wrote: >

> These devices seem to be 'out of production' by

> Astro Physics :((((

>

> Does anyone know of a souce for one, or how

> some other brand (Gasp!!) might be easily

> adapted to fit an Astro Physics mount ????

>

> Best Regards,

> Alex Pettit

> Orlando Fla



Alex,



The Meade 814 polar finder for their LXD650 and 750 mounts will fit.

The threaded collar is the same. It has a hour angle reticle as opposed

to the star pattern reticle of the AP unit, and needs external

illumination, but it will work. Problem will be finding one, since they

have been discontinued!



The threading is also common with the old Tele-Vue systems mount, in

which I currently have the Meade finder, but used to use an AP finder in

it.



Evan Miller



----------------------------

#2244 Sep 4, 2000

Enyo wrote: >

> Paul:

>

> Do you know if it is the Meade 812 or 814 finder or both that fit? I have a

> 600E (pre QMD).

> The 814 is for their 650 and 750 mounts and the 812 is for the 300 and 500

> mounts. Last spring AP told me they were looking at bringing back the polar

> finder scope but so far its not here.

>

> John Brinegar

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Paul Rodbell" paul@...>

> > By the way, though it's not illuminated nor as good a quality as the AP,

> > the Mead polar scope will thread into the AP mounts perfectly. It may be

> > a "poor second", but if you feel the need for one you might try that.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Paul Rodbell

> > Atlanta, GA



Hi John,



It's the 814. I use one on a Tele-Vue systems mount and will hang on to

it for use on yet to be obtained AP mount. The 812 will not fit, I

tried it.



Bad news, though, the 814 is discontinued and you'll have to hunt around

to find one.



Evan



----------------------------

#2977 Oct 28, 2000

Does AP still offer polar alignment scopes? I just purchased a used

AP400, non-GOTO, and thought I might try to locate a polar alignment

scope. I looked around the AP website but do not see anything.



BTW, the AP400 and wooden tripod, used but in perfect condition, is

not only beautiful but carries my T@#%%&shi FS-128 and is rock solid.



Regards,

Don Holcombe



----------------------------

#2979 Oct 29, 2000

Hi Don:



Here is a recent post from Marj on the status of the polar scope:



-------------------

The new polar scope is on the way to us and should arrive in the next couple

of days. As many of you know, we expected the first shipment a few months

ago. The delay was caused by the development and production of the

illuminator which dragged on and on. It never got finished. We have now

decided to produce the illuminator in-house and will finish it up in short

order.



This is the first shipment of polar scopes from this vendor. We must test

them to be sure the reticle is correct on the production models as it was on

the prototype. We have some good ideas for the illuminator and plan to make

them up quickly.



I will post information to this group as it becomes available. We'll also

send the info to the people on the polar scope notification list. This list

is not on the web site form, so if you wish your name to be added, give us a

call or send e-mail.



I know that many of you are interested in the polar scope and I don't have

enough in this first shipment to satisfy all. As soon as we test these first

units, we will order more. I think the second production cycle will be

shorter.

-------------------



Hope this helps,



Eric



-----Original Message-----

From: Don Holcombe donholco@...>

To: ap-ug@egroups.com ap-ug@egroups.com>

Date: Sunday, October 29, 2000 12:03 AM

Subject: [ap-ug] Polar Alignment Scope



>Does AP still offer polar alignment scopes? I just purchased a used

>AP400, non-GOTO, and thought I might try to locate a polar alignment

>scope. I looked around the AP website but do not see anything.

>

>BTW, the AP400 and wooden tripod, used but in perfect condition, is

>not only beautiful but carries my T@#%%&shi FS-128 and is rock solid.

>

>Regards,

>Don Holcombe

>

>

>

>

>



----------------------------

#2981 Oct 29, 2000

Eric.............thanks for the info.



Don

> Hi Don:

>

> Here is a recent post from Marj on the status of the polar scope:

>

> -------------------

> The new polar scope is on the way to us and should arrive in the next

couple > of days.



----------------------------

#3784 Jan 24, 2001

To all:

The first shipment of polar alignment scopes has arrived and we will begin

shipping them today. Unfortunately, the number of people on the notification

list for the polar scope exceeds the number of scopes that we have in this

shipment. We also know that there are people who are not on the list who

will want to order one. We have placed our second order for a much larger

shipment and are expecting them in a couple of months.

We have contacted all of the people on the polar scope notification list by

e-mail (if available) or snail mail. The people who have been on the list

the longest were offered the opportunity to order the units I have in stock.

The others were notified that the scopes in the next shipment are available

to order. Even if you are not on these lists, you can now order this

product.

Since this item is now available to order, we have discontinued the

notification list for the polar scopes. You may place an order whenever you

wish.

Refer to our web site for description and photo

www.astro-physics.com/products/accessories/mounting_acc/mounting_acc.

htm - #polar . This polar scope can be used with all of our past and present

models of the 400, 600EGTO, 800, 900 and 1200 mounts. The reticle is marked

for both northern and southern hemispheres. The price is $230. No extra

charge for shipping UPS ground in the continental U.S.

Thanks,

Marjorie Christen

Astro-Physics

Phone: 815-282-1513

Fax: 815-282-9847

www.astro-physics.com







----------------------------

#3785 Jan 24, 2001

www.astro-physics.com/products/accessories/mounting_acc/mounting_acc.

>htm - #polar



This did not work for me, even when I put it all on one line, but this did:



www.astro-physics.com/products/accessories/mounting_acc/mounting_acc.htm#polar

Clear skies!

MK



www3.sympatico.ca/mark.kaye/



----------------------------

#3790 Jan 24, 2001

Hi Marj, and Roland, In reply to your last post I'd like to ask you some questions regarding the older AP Polar Scopes you made.



About two years ago, I purchased one of these from a seller on Astromart. I did personally show this one to Roland at '99 Astrofest, and I remember him remarking that it was nice that I had gotten a spare mounting collar/sleeve with it to screw into the mount. (This usually comes with the mount)



This unit has been tried physically in my new 1200GTO, and it does fit just fine.



My question to you folks is if this older P-Scope is still going to provide good P-Alignment accuracy, meaning is the reticle in it still useful, or would you consider it now obsolete, due to the passing of time?

(I have no idea for what date (Year) this reticle was designed for?)



My next question would be, "If the older scope is not as accurate due to my mentioned possible shortcomings, can the reticle in my older P-Scope be replaced/upgraded with the newer reticle?



I'm sure there are many of us, who have the older P-Scope who would like to know about your thoughts on this?



Thanks, Mark



----------------------------

#3792 Jan 24, 2001

Mark,

Since the polar scope works just fine for you, that verifies that it is

still accurate. We do not know what years it was optimized for. It was on

the market several years before we sold it. Some people who have been into

astronomy for a long time, will remember that TeleVue also sold the same

polar scope with the TeleVue Systems mount (manufactured by Carton) a number

of years ago.



The new polar scope has marks on it to show relative position from 1990 to

2010 and you can probably extrapolate a bit beyond that. The reticle is the

same as the JMI and Losmandy polar scopes so it will look familiar to many

of you. I suspect that there is one source making reticles for all of us.



No, the new reticles cannot be installed in the original polar scopes. The

dimensions are not the same.





Marjorie Christen

Astro-Physics

Phone: 815-282-1513

Fax: 815-282-9847

www.astro-physics.com



-----Original Message-----

From:.Mark D'Ambrosio [mailto:markdambrosio@...]

Sent:.Wednesday, January 24, 2001 5:03 PM

To:.ap-ug@egroups.com

Subject:.[ap-ug] Re: Polar Alignment Scopes



Hi Marj, and Roland, In reply to your last post I'd like to ask you some

questions regarding the older AP Polar Scopes you made.



About two years ago, I purchased one of these from a seller on Astromart. I

did personally show this one to Roland at '99 Astrofest, and I remember him

remarking that it was nice that I had gotten a spare mounting collar/sleeve

with it to screw into the mount. (This usually comes with the mount)



This unit has been tried physically in my new 1200GTO, and it does fit just

fine.



My question to you folks is if this older P-Scope is still going to provide

good P-Alignment accuracy, meaning is the reticle in it still useful, or

would you consider it now obsolete, due to the passing of time?

(I have no idea for what date (Year) this reticle was designed for?)



My next question would be, "If the older scope is not as accurate due to my

mentioned possible shortcomings, can the reticle in my older P-Scope be

replaced/upgraded with the newer reticle?



I'm sure there are many of us, who have the older P-Scope who would like to

know about your thoughts on this?



Thanks, Mark



----------------------------

#3793 Jan 24, 2001

---Greatings to all!



A couple of questions concerning the new polar scope. With this new

version now having a cord, does this cord stay flexable in cold

weather

so it will not break off or over stress the wires in the cord at the

first accidental pull of the cord? The older style was a nice

"wireless" version.



Second question. Do any of the GOTO mounts need this polar scope or

is

it mainly intended for use with the older mounts? I ask because even

if

the scope is not parallel with the mount, it wouldn't matter because

of

the polar align feature of the GOTO would be more accurate than any

polar scope....right?



Best regards,

Dan Folz



----------------------------

#3794 Jan 24, 2001

Dan,

You may want to put a piece of velcro on the battery compartment and on the

pier or tripod wherever you want to attach it. As with all cords, you want

to avoid pulling it. The older wireless version was handy, but it also got

in the way at some latitudes since it protruded so far. The batteries (for

hearing aids) of the old one were also not as likely be in your spare parts

drawer as the AA batteries are.



Many GTO users will find the polar scope useful. If you have any

orthogonality problems, polar alignment is near impossible using the goto

functions. This is because the goto setup uses your main scope as the polar

scope. If the optical axis of the main scope is not parallel with the

mechanical axis of the mount, polar alignment will be elusive. The polar

scope will eliminate this variable because you can align it optically with

the mount prior to your polar alignment. The polar scope will be preferred

by some because it is quick and easy. Having said that, the ultimate way to

polar align for perfection is the drift method, but very tedious.



Marjorie Christen

Astro-Physics

Phone: 815-282-1513

Fax: 815-282-9847

www.astro-physics.com



-----Original Message-----

From:.dbf@... [mailto:dbf@...]

Sent:.Wednesday, January 24, 2001 7:07 PM

To:.ap-ug@egroups.com

Subject:.[ap-ug] Re: Polar Alignment Scopes



---Greatings to all!



A couple of questions concerning the new polar scope. With this new

version now having a cord, does this cord stay flexable in cold

weather

so it will not break off or over stress the wires in the cord at the

first accidental pull of the cord? The older style was a nice

"wireless" version.



Second question. Do any of the GOTO mounts need this polar scope or

is

it mainly intended for use with the older mounts? I ask because even

if

the scope is not parallel with the mount, it wouldn't matter because

of

the polar align feature of the GOTO would be more accurate than any

polar scope....right?



Best regards,

Dan Folz







----------------------------

#3795 Jan 24, 2001

--- In ap-ug@egroups.com, dbf@i... wrote: > Do any of the GOTO mounts need this polar scope or is

> it mainly intended for use with the older mounts? I ask because

> even if the scope is not parallel with the mount, it wouldn't

> matter because of the polar align feature of the GOTO would be

> more accurate than any polar scope....right?



Hi Dan:



The polar scope is extremely useful with my 600 GTO. For visual use,

all I need is one polar scope alignment--the Goto function will be

accurate enough, and high power observing is easy.



If you want a very accurate alignment, it will take several

iterations

(and more time) to get to the same level you can get with the polar

scope. Then you can finalize alignment with the method in the manual.



IIRC the updated chip will have faster align, but I am not going to

stop using the polar scope.



Derek



----------------------------

#5040 Apr 19, 2001

The documentation for the 600 QMD says that damage can occur if an OTA

in on the mount during alignment with the polar scope. I inserted the

polar scope and was able to turn the mount in DEC freely. What's the

reason for the caution?



Matt BenDaniel

starmatt.com



----------------------------

#5041 Apr 19, 2001

In a message dated 4/19/2001 12:48:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

bendaniel@... writes:



> The documentation for the 600 QMD says that damage can occur if an OTA

> in on the mount during alignment with the polar scope.



You can safely adjust the 600 mount with everything attached. The original

warning was for the 800, and somehow it got attached to the 600 instructions.

The 800 had a different method for adjusting the altitude.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#5042 Apr 19, 2001

If memory serves, the same message was in the 400QMD instructions.



-- In ap-ug@y..., chris1011@a... wrote: > In a message dated 4/19/2001 12:48:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> bendaniel@h... writes:

>

>

> > The documentation for the 600 QMD says that damage can occur if

an OTA > > in on the mount during alignment with the polar scope.

>

> You can safely adjust the 600 mount with everything attached. The

original > warning was for the 800, and somehow it got attached to the 600

instructions. > The 800 had a different method for adjusting the altitude.

>

> Roland Christen

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#5043 Apr 19, 2001

In a message dated 4/19/2001 2:03:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

cspratt@... writes:



> If memory serves, the same message was in the 400QMD instructions



Not a problem with the 400 either.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#5473 May 16, 2001

In a message dated 5/16/2001 11:25:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

kgkirkley@... writes:



> is threaded all the way into the adapter and snugged-up, what allows the

> scope to rotate in order to place Polaris in it's proper place on the

> reticle? The adapter doesn't seem to rotate either. Neither the AP1200GTO

> or

> Polar Scope instructions mention this.

>

>

Just rotate the polar axis until you line up the pattern.



It is more accurate to rotate the polar axis, rather than trying to rotate

the polar scope. Once you have aligned the reticle to be orthogonal to the

mount, it will stay orthogonal only if you screw it down the same way each

time. If you were to rotate the polar scope itself with some kind of slip

ring arrangement, you would probably lose accuracy.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#5474 May 16, 2001

In a message dated 5/16/01 2:16:25 PM, chris1011@... writes:

>Just rotate the polar axis until you line up the pattern.

>

>It is more accurate to rotate the polar axis, rather than trying to rotate

>

>the polar scope. Once you have aligned the reticle to be orthogonal to

>the

>mount, it will stay orthogonal only if you screw it down the same way each

>

>time. If you were to rotate the polar scope itself with some kind of slip

>

>ring arrangement, you would probably lose accuracy.

>

>Roland Christen



Thanks Roland:

Now why didn't I think of that????

Of course that means polar aligning without the ota, rings, counterweight

shaft and counterweight. As I do my observing/photography from a remote dark

sight, I like to assemble everything before dark and begin polar alignment as

soon as I can see Polaris. Also, isn't there a chance that once polar

alignment with the alignment scope is finished and the equipment assembled,

the additional weight might misalign it.

Of course, while drift aligning this can be corrected.

And, once I learn the to polar align with the 1200GTO, this may not be a

problem.

Kent Kirkley



----------------------------

#5475 May 16, 2001

In a message dated 5/16/2001 1:04:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

kgkirkley@... writes:



> Of course that means polar aligning without the ota, rings, counterweight

> shaft and counterweight.

>

>



Why? I do it with stuff attached.



Roland Christen











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#5479 May 16, 2001

So that I don't have to do that (upside down affair) I have some very thin

washers which are more like spark plug gaskets. Very thin, very narrow. If I put

one or two of them in, it limits how far the PAS can be screwed in, which orients

the reticle to different positions.



kgkirkley@... wrote:

> In a message dated 5/16/01 3:45:58 PM, chris1011@... writes:

>

> >

> >Why? I do it with stuff attached.

> >

> >Roland Christen

>

> Well.....

> At certain times of the year, to match the "sky image" and polar align, it

> will mean having the counterweight shaft pointing straight up and the top of

> the Dec. axis, mounting plate, rings & ota below the polar

> axis...........perhaps that is why you chose to have the bore-sight hole line

> up when the saddle/ota are turned east/west, so the whole affair will clear

> the pier top......at most northerly latitudes????

> Kent

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



--

==

Greg Mueller Port Gamble, Washington

Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut



Tech Tools and Astronomer's Gizmos

www.muellersatomics.com/

==



----------------------------

#5480 May 16, 2001

In a message dated 5/16/2001 3:10:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

mueller@... writes:



> So that I don't have to do that (upside down affair) I have some very thin

> washers



What a great idea, one washer for each season.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#5481 May 16, 2001

This is actually a great tip.... it's been bugging me ever since I got my

polar scope.... Maybe something to be added on the Polar Scope

Instructions....



----- Original Message -----

From: chris1011@...>

To: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 4:54 PM

Subject: Re: [ap-ug] AP 1200GTO & Polar Alignment Scope???





> In a message dated 5/16/2001 3:10:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> mueller@... writes:

>

>

> > So that I don't have to do that (upside down affair) I have some very

thin

> > washers

>

> What a great idea, one washer for each season.

>

> Roland Christen

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>



----------------------------

#5482 May 17, 2001

In a message dated 5/16/01 5:10:55 PM, mueller@... writes:

>So that I don't have to do that (upside down affair) I have some very thin

>washers which are more like spark plug gaskets. Very thin, very narrow.

>If I put

>one or two of them in, it limits how far the PAS can be screwed in, which

>orients

>the reticle to different positions.



And this doesn't introduce too much play that results in the PAS wobbling?

Kent Kirkley



----------------------------

#5483 May 17, 2001

--- In ap-ug@y..., kgkirkley@a... wrote: >

> In a message dated 5/16/01 2:16:25 PM, chris1011@a... writes:

>

> >Just rotate the polar axis until you line up the pattern.

> >

> >It is more accurate to rotate the polar axis, rather than trying to

rotate > >

> >the polar scope. Once you have aligned the reticle to be orthogonal

to > >the

> >mount, it will stay orthogonal only if you screw it down the same

way each > >

> >time. If you were to rotate the polar scope itself with some kind

of slip > >

> >ring arrangement, you would probably lose accuracy.







The only thing that will change your polar alignment on your 1200

mount is a car crashing into it. > >Roland Christen

>

> Thanks Roland:

> Now why didn't I think of that????

> Of course that means polar aligning without the ota, rings,

counterweight > shaft and counterweight. As I do my observing/photography from a

remote dark > sight, I like to assemble everything before dark and begin polar

alignment as > soon as I can see Polaris. Also, isn't there a chance that once

polar > alignment with the alignment scope is finished and the equipment

assembled, > the additional weight might misalign it.

> Of course, while drift aligning this can be corrected.

> And, once I learn the to polar align with the 1200GTO, this may not

be a > problem.

> Kent Kirkley



----------------------------

#5484 May 17, 2001

nope

It's just a flat washer that is a "shim" or "spacer". It only prohibits the PAS

from screwing in as far, thereby giving it a "different" orientation. It is as

solid as without the spacer



kgkirkley@... wrote:

> In a message dated 5/16/01 5:10:55 PM, mueller@... writes:

>

> >So that I don't have to do that (upside down affair) I have some very thin

> >washers which are more like spark plug gaskets. Very thin, very narrow.

> >If I put

> >one or two of them in, it limits how far the PAS can be screwed in, which

> >orients

> >the reticle to different positions.

>

> And this doesn't introduce too much play that results in the PAS wobbling?

> Kent Kirkley

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



--

==

Greg Mueller Port Gamble, Washington

Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut



Tech Tools and Astronomer's Gizmos

www.muellersatomics.com/

==







----------------------------

#5488 May 17, 2001

Kent,



You do not want to rotate the polar axis to move Polaris into the gap. Here

is the pertinent part of the Polar axis instructions...



5) Rotate your right ascension axis so that the constellation reference

line on the reticle approximately matches the current sky orientation of the

Big Dipper and Cassiopeia. Note that these constellations will not actually

be visible through the polar scope.



6) Use the mount's azimuth adjustment knobs and altitude fine adjustment

knob to move Polaris into the gap in the reticle line that points to the Big

Dipper. Place Polaris approximately as shown in the diagram, not in the

center of the gap.



7) Rotate the right ascension axis to put Delta (?) Ursae Minoris somewhere

along the appropriate line for the current Epoch.



8) Readjust the altitude and azimuth to bring Polaris back to the

appropriate position in its gap.



9) Repeat steps 7 and 8 until Polaris and ? UMi appear properly positioned

in their respective gaps. Both stars will be off-center in their gaps, as

shown in the diagram.



10) You now have good polar alignment. If you can see a faint third star

(OV Cephei) near the remaining set of gaps, you can fine tune the alignment

a little further. Initially, you might need to turn the illuminator off to

spot this star. If OV Cephei lies anywhere along its line for the current

Epoch, no further adjustment is necessary. If OV Cep is offset clockwise,

place Polaris a little farther inward along the Polaris line. If OV Cep is

offset counter-clockwise, place Polaris a little farther outward along the

Polaris line. Repeat steps 7 through 10 until all three stars lie along

their respective lines.





Polaris is being used to correctly aim the polar axis of the mount. Delta

Ursae Majoris is being used to correctly orient the reticle. Once you have

rotated the polar axis to roughly line the pattern up with the

constellations, you should only be adjusting altitude and azimuth to move

Polaris into the gap. Rotation of the polar axis should only be used to

position Delta Ursae Majoris.



OV Ceph provides a reality check so you can compensate for any slight

mismatch between the reticle and the magnification of the Polar axis scope.



Clear skies, Alan

----- Original Message -----

From: kgkirkley@...>

To: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 1:38 PM

Subject: [ap-ug] AP 1200GTO & Polar Alignment Scope???





> Concerning the installation and use of Polar Alignment Scope with AP

1200GTO.

>

> When using the Polar Alignment Scope with an AP 1200GTO mount, once the

scope

> is threaded all the way into the adapter and snugged-up, what allows the

> scope to rotate in order to place Polaris in it's proper place on the

> reticle? The adapter doesn't seem to rotate either. Neither the AP1200GTO

or

> Polar Scope instructions mention this.



----------------------------

#5489 May 17, 2001

Kent,



You do not want to rotate the polar axis to move Polaris into the gap. Here

is the pertinent part of the Polar axis instructions...



[SNIP]

5) Rotate your right ascension axis so that the constellation reference

line on the reticle approximately matches the current sky orientation of the

Big Dipper and Cassiopeia. Note that these constellations will not actually

be visible through the polar scope.



6) Use the mount's azimuth adjustment knobs and altitude fine adjustment

knob to move Polaris into the gap in the reticle line that points to the Big

Dipper. Place Polaris approximately as shown in the diagram, not in the

center of the gap.



7) Rotate the right ascension axis to put Delta Ursae Minoris somewhere

along the appropriate line for the current Epoch.



8) Readjust the altitude and azimuth to bring Polaris back to the

appropriate position in its gap.



9) Repeat steps 7 and 8 until Polaris and Delta UMi appear properly

positioned in their respective gaps. Both stars will be off-center

in their gaps, as shown in the diagram.



10) You now have good polar alignment. If you can see a faint third star

(OV Cephei) near the remaining set of gaps, you can fine tune the alignment

a little further. Initially, you might need to turn the illuminator off to

spot this star. If OV Cephei lies anywhere along its line for the current

Epoch, no further adjustment is necessary. If OV Cep is offset clockwise,

place Polaris a little farther inward along the Polaris line. If OV Cep is

offset counter-clockwise, place Polaris a little farther outward along the

Polaris line. Repeat steps 7 through 10 until all three stars lie along

their respective lines.

[SNIP]



Polaris is being used to correctly aim the polar axis of the mount. Delta

Ursae Majoris is being used to correctly orient the reticle. Once you have

rotated the polar axis to roughly line the pattern up with the

constellations, you should only be adjusting altitude and azimuth to move

Polaris into the gap. Rotation of the polar axis should only be used to

position Delta Ursae Majoris.



OV Ceph provides a reality check so you can compensate for any slight

mismatch between the reticle and the magnification of the Polar axis scope.



Clear skies, Alan



----- Original Message -----

From: kgkirkley@...>

To: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 1:38 PM

Subject: [ap-ug] AP 1200GTO & Polar Alignment Scope???





> Concerning the installation and use of Polar Alignment Scope with AP

1200GTO.

>

> When using the Polar Alignment Scope with an AP 1200GTO mount, once the

scope

> is threaded all the way into the adapter and snugged-up, what allows the

> scope to rotate in order to place Polaris in it's proper place on the

> reticle? The adapter doesn't seem to rotate either. Neither the AP1200GTO

or

> Polar Scope instructions mention this.

>

> In my G-11, the Polar scope slides in (not thread) and rotates against the

> end of the Polar axis collar.

> Thanks,

> Kent Kirkley

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>







----------------------------

#5490 May 17, 2001

In a message dated 5/17/01 10:10:49 PM, sue_and_alan_french@... writes:

>Kent,

>

>You do not want to rotate the polar axis to move Polaris into the gap.

> Here

>is the pertinent part of the Polar axis instructions...

>

>[SNIP]

>5) Rotate your right ascension axis so that the constellation reference

>line on the reticle approximately matches the current sky orientation of

>the

>Big Dipper and Cassiopeia. Note that these constellations will not actually

>be visible through the polar scope.

>

>6) Use the mount's azimuth adjustment knobs and altitude fine adjustment

>knob to move Polaris into the gap in the reticle line that points to the

>Big

>Dipper. Place Polaris approximately as shown in the diagram, not in the

>center of the gap.

>

>7) Rotate the right ascension axis to put Delta Ursae Minoris somewhere

>along the appropriate line for the current Epoch.

>

>8) Readjust the altitude and azimuth to bring Polaris back to the

>appropriate position in its gap.

>

>9) Repeat steps 7 and 8 until Polaris and Delta UMi appear properly

>positioned in their respective gaps. Both stars will be off-center

>in their gaps, as shown in the diagram.

>

>10) You now have good polar alignment. If you can see a faint third

>star

>(OV Cephei) near the remaining set of gaps, you can fine tune the alignment

>a little further. Initially, you might need to turn the illuminator off

>to

>spot this star. If OV Cephei lies anywhere along its line for the current

>Epoch, no further adjustment is necessary. If OV Cep is offset clockwise,

>place Polaris a little farther inward along the Polaris line. If OV Cep

>is

>offset counter-clockwise, place Polaris a little farther outward along

>the

>Polaris line. Repeat steps 7 through 10 until all three stars lie along

>their respective lines.

>[SNIP]

>

>Polaris is being used to correctly aim the polar axis of the mount. Delta

>Ursae Majoris is being used to correctly orient the reticle. Once you

>have

>rotated the polar axis to roughly line the pattern up with the

>constellations, you should only be adjusting altitude and azimuth to move

>Polaris into the gap. Rotation of the polar axis should only be used to

>position Delta Ursae Majoris.

>

>OV Ceph provides a reality check so you can compensate for any slight

>mismatch between the reticle and the magnification of the Polar axis scope.

>

>Clear skies, Alan



Alan:

Thanks, I've been polar aligning my G-11 for four years, but I haven't

approached it this way.

By the way, where did you find these instructions?

Kent Kirkley



----------------------------

#5491 May 18, 2001

Kent,



The excerpt was form the instructions from the AP web site (under Technical

Support).



I think I've read most of the available instructions for polar alignment

scopes. A lot of them have you adjusting both reticle rotation and

altitude/azimuth to position one or more of the stars. This does not work

well at all, and you can wind up going around in circles and never getting

everything quite right. I get the feeling, in some cases, that no one

actually tried the instructions under the night sky, or that they got lucky

when they did.



There are really two adjustments you need - adjustment of the altitude and

azimuth to get the polar axis aimed correctly, and adjustment of reticle

rotation to get it in the correct position for the time of your polar

alignment. Using one star to adjust the pointing of the polar axis

(Polaris) and one star (Delta Ursae Minoris) to get the reticle orientation

correct seems the only efficient and effective way to get properly polar

aligned. (Actually, you could use Delta Ursae Minoris to do the aiming and

Polaris to set the reticle orientation, as long as you are consistant with

what you are doing.)



Clear skies, Alan



BTW, Sorry for the duplicte posts. Our mail service has been erratic, and

after the first didn't show up for many hours...

>

> Alan:

> Thanks, I've been polar aligning my G-11 for four years, but I haven't

> approached it this way.

> By the way, where did you find these instructions?

> Kent Kirkley

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>



----------------------------

#5492 May 18, 2001

Polar finders are okay, but the polar-alignment program that comes with the

hand-paddle is great! And the section in the manual about "achieving

accurate polar alignment with a Go-To mount" is pricesless--worth its weight

in meteorites!



Pat Madden



----------------------------

#5496 May 18, 2001

Patrick J. Madden wrote:

> Polar finders are okay, but the polar-alignment program that

> comes with the hand-paddle is great! And the section in the

> manual about "achieving accurate polar alignment with a Go-To

> mount" is pricesless--worth its weight in meteorites!



Yep, good stuff. But (for me, anyways) the Polar alignment scope does

help cut down the number of iterations needed to dial things in.

For "quick-peek" visual-only nights, the PA scope alignment is itself

usually sufficient.



Paul



PS: I've scrounged up some thin washers and am going to try them to

help with the PA scope orientation... that was a great suggestion!







----------------------------

#7007 Aug 23, 2001

Last night was my first attempt to polar star align the 900GTO system.

After going throught the manual first, I became confused about two

things.



Firstly, the manual says not to use Arcturus as a second alignment star

after using Polaris since the RA is nearly the same for these two. In

my star atlas, Polaris shows an RA of 2hr30min and Arcturus is at

approx. 14hr RA. So, the RA's between these two stars is 'not' close to

being the same.



Secondly, the manual asks that I polar align the mount using my polar

axis scope, and then get Polaris into the field of view of the

telescope by adjusting the RA and DEC axis of the mount, again. If I

re-adjust the mount's RA and DEC to make the Polaris visible in the

scope's eyepiece, the mount's polar axis will not be pointing at the

pole anymore, but will now be pointed at Polaris which is off of the

pole by a degree or so. Anyway, after doing this procedure and choosing

Vega as the second alignment star, a quick press of the GoTo button

brought the scope a few degrees off of the targeted M13. I'll try again

on Saturday night, my next time out observing



What am I misunderstanding?



Peter Natscher

peter@...



----------------------------

#7008 Aug 23, 2001

----- Original Message -----

From: "Peter Natscher" natscher@...>



> What am I misunderstanding?



Hi Peter,

Not if software has slewed the telescope to where it thinks POLARIS, not the

pole, should be. Right?



----------------------------

#7009 Aug 23, 2001

--- Peter Natscher natscher@...> wrote: > Last night was my first attempt to polar star align

> the 900GTO system.

> After going throught the manual first, I became

> confused about two

> things.

>

> Firstly, the manual says not to use Arcturus as a

> second alignment star

> after using Polaris since the RA is nearly the same

> for these two. In

> my star atlas, Polaris shows an RA of 2hr30min and

> Arcturus is at

> approx. 14hr RA. So, the RA's between these two

> stars is 'not' close to

> being the same.



Add 12 hrs to Polaris...When you are at the poles, the

mount will actually swing past the 90 degrees to get

to polaris on the other side without a RA movement. If

the mount does a RA movement (which it won't) the

scope may end up under the mount 180 degrees in RA

from the Arcturus.

> Secondly, the manual asks that I polar align the

> mount using my polar

> axis scope, and then get Polaris into the field of

> view of the

> telescope by adjusting the RA and DEC axis of the

> mount, again. If I

> re-adjust the mount's RA and DEC to make the Polaris

> visible in the

> scope's eyepiece, the mount's polar axis will not be

> pointing at the

> pole anymore, but will now be pointed at Polaris

> which is off of the

> pole by a degree or so. Anyway, after doing this

> procedure and choosing

> Vega as the second alignment star, a quick press of

> the GoTo button

> brought the scope a few degrees off of the targeted

> M13. I'll try again

> on Saturday night, my next time out observing

>

> What am I misunderstanding?

>

> Peter Natscher

> peter@...



When using the Polar Scope only Adjust the Alt/Az.

What you may be refering to is that on the 600e and

400 the polar scope turns with the RA shaft. Also, you

have to turn the DEC to see thru the hole in the

shaft, the instructions may be refering this.



Hope this helps.



Tim

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the

> ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

> docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>





---------------

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----------------------------

#7010 Aug 23, 2001

Von: Peter Natscher [mailto:natscher@...]

> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. August 2001 17:12

> An: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com

> Betreff: [ap-ug] 900GTO Polar Star Alignment Procedure

> Misunderstandings

>

> Firstly, the manual says not to use Arcturus as a second

> alignment star

> after using Polaris since the RA is nearly the same for these two. In

> my star atlas, Polaris shows an RA of 2hr30min and Arcturus is at

> approx. 14hr RA. So, the RA's between these two stars is

> 'not' close to

> being the same.



A full great circle in Dec around the hemisphere is e.g. half RA 2 hrs and

half RA 14 hrs. Avoid generally choosing stars close to the same great

circle, the mount would mainly slew around the dec axis - about 180degs -

but hardly move in RA. Misalignment thus shows best when the difference in

RA is 6 hrs.

> Secondly, the manual asks that I polar align the mount using my polar

> axis scope, and then get Polaris into the field of view of the

> telescope by adjusting the RA and DEC axis of the mount, again. If I

> re-adjust the mount's RA and DEC to make the Polaris visible in the

> scope's eyepiece, the mount's polar axis will not be pointing at the

> pole anymore, but will now be pointed at Polaris which is off of the

> pole by a degree or so.



You obviousely confuse RA and Dec axis movement which is done with the hand

control box with Alt-Azm adjustment which is done with the knobs on the

mount which make the mount rotate on the plate of your pier/tripod

horizontally (Azm) and vertically (Alt). Only the latter changes the

position of the axis. I do not know the procedure with the polar alignment

scope because I have none. But I guess having centered Polaris, you have to

recalibrate on it. This requires Polaris being the current object which

requires a goto manoever first.

> Anyway, after doing this procedure

> and choosing

> Vega as the second alignment star, a quick press of the GoTo button

> brought the scope a few degrees off of the targeted M13. I'll

> try again

> on Saturday night, my next time out observing



I had exactly the same problem with exactly the same objects until I checked

for orthogonality.



Good luck

Wolfgang







----------------------------

#7011 Aug 23, 2001

I did notice that when I pushed the GoTo button and the scope slewed back to

Polaris, it pointed about the same degree off as Polaris is from the true pole.

This might have been because of my leaving the scope ponting to the true pole

rather than Polaris when asked to point the scope to Polaris by the hand

controller. I'm realizing now that the true pole has no meaning here, just the

two stars in the two-star alignmennt procedure are important.



Peter



"Jeffrey D. Gortatowsky" wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Peter Natscher" natscher@...>

>

> > What am I misunderstanding?

>

> Hi Peter,

> Not if software has slewed the telescope to where it thinks POLARIS, not the

> pole, should be. Right?

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



----------------------------

#7012 Aug 23, 2001

Thanks, Tim.



Peter



Tim Khan wrote:

> --- Peter Natscher natscher@...> wrote:

> > Last night was my first attempt to polar star align

> > the 900GTO system.

> > After going throught the manual first, I became

> > confused about two

> > things.

> >

> > Firstly, the manual says not to use Arcturus as a

> > second alignment star

> > after using Polaris since the RA is nearly the same

> > for these two. In

> > my star atlas, Polaris shows an RA of 2hr30min and

> > Arcturus is at

> > approx. 14hr RA. So, the RA's between these two

> > stars is 'not' close to

> > being the same.

>

> Add 12 hrs to Polaris...When you are at the poles, the

> mount will actually swing past the 90 degrees to get

> to polaris on the other side without a RA movement. If

> the mount does a RA movement (which it won't) the

> scope may end up under the mount 180 degrees in RA

> from the Arcturus.

>

> > Secondly, the manual asks that I polar align the

> > mount using my polar

> > axis scope, and then get Polaris into the field of

> > view of the

> > telescope by adjusting the RA and DEC axis of the

> > mount, again. If I

> > re-adjust the mount's RA and DEC to make the Polaris

> > visible in the

> > scope's eyepiece, the mount's polar axis will not be

> > pointing at the

> > pole anymore, but will now be pointed at Polaris

> > which is off of the

> > pole by a degree or so. Anyway, after doing this

> > procedure and choosing

> > Vega as the second alignment star, a quick press of

> > the GoTo button

> > brought the scope a few degrees off of the targeted

> > M13. I'll try again

> > on Saturday night, my next time out observing

> >

> > What am I misunderstanding?

> >

> > Peter Natscher

> > peter@...

>

> When using the Polar Scope only Adjust the Alt/Az.

> What you may be refering to is that on the 600e and

> 400 the polar scope turns with the RA shaft. Also, you

> have to turn the DEC to see thru the hole in the

> shaft, the instructions may be refering this.

>

> Hope this helps.

>

> Tim

>

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the

> > ap-ug list

> > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

> >

> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

> > docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> >

> >

>

---------------

> Do You Yahoo!?

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> phonecard.yahoo.com/

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----------------------------

#7013 Aug 23, 2001

On 8/23/01 8:12 AM Peter Natscher wrote:

> What am I misunderstanding?



There was a discussion on the ap-gto list about the polar routine. See:

"[ap-gto] Re: Polar Alignment one more time". You might find that discussion

worthwhile. I'll forward one of the most enlightening messages offlist.



In short, Roland was recommending NOT using the polar routine and was

considering removing it in the future. The two star routine was recommended.



Regards,

Robin



Astro Accessories by Robin Casady

Stainless Steel Weights & Dovetail Saddles

www.CarmelCoast.com/Astro/sales.html



Casady & Greene, Inc.

www.casadyg.com



----------------------------

#7018 Aug 23, 2001

Roland said: >

> Way 1: use one of the alignment routines in the keypad at startup.

> Way 2: use a Pole scope

> Way 3: do a drift alignment

> Way 4: use a carpenter's level and set the scope up per the instructions in

> the manual using the Reference Park positions. This is also a good way to

> polar align the scope in the daytime.

>

> Way 5: Does anyone know of any other way?



.The only other way I've heard of involves a chicken, 2 goats,

a congressman from Idaho and 3 lbs of spinach. >:-)



--Kit







--

Kit Cosper cosper@...







----------------------------

#7020 Aug 23, 2001

--- In ap-ug@y..., Robin Casady rcasady@c...> wrote: >

> In short, Roland was recommending NOT using the polar routine

>

> Regards,

> Robin





In about 10,000 years or so Polaris will be far away enough from the

pole to make it usable. I think the AP mounts will last that long

also.



Tim Povlick

San Juan Capistrano, CA



----------------------------

#7024 Aug 23, 2001

Peter Natscher wrote:

> Last night was my first attempt to polar star align the 900GTO system.

> After going throught the manual first, I became confused about two

> things.

>

> Firstly, the manual says not to use Arcturus as a second alignment star

> after using Polaris since the RA is nearly the same for these two. In

> my star atlas, Polaris shows an RA of 2hr30min and Arcturus is at

> approx. 14hr RA. So, the RA's between these two stars is 'not' close to

> being the same.



It's off by almost exactly 12 hours. I can definitely attest to the fact

that Arcturus is not a good star to use.

>

>

> Secondly, the manual asks that I polar align the mount using my polar

> axis scope, and then get Polaris into the field of view of the

> telescope by adjusting the RA and DEC axis of the mount, again. If I



You shouldn't have to use a polar scope, except maybe to get

reasonably close on the first run.



Bob K.



----------------------------

#7027 Aug 24, 2001

I'm not sure why there is a problem. I have used the polar star method

for aligning my 600 GOTO mount for years now and have had no problem.

On the other hand when I tried to use the 2 star method I HAVE had

problems. As I recall in one instruction manual using the 2 star

method you were suppose to make the correction after the scope slewed

to the 2nd star with the alt. Az, control on the mount and in the

other manual you were instructed to make only ONE-HALF correction.

That's much more confusing to me. Which is correct?



Jim



>

> > What am I misunderstanding?

>

> There was a discussion on the ap-gto list about the polar routine.

See: > "[ap-gto] Re: Polar Alignment one more time". You might find that

discussion > worthwhile. I'll forward one of the most enlightening messages

offlist. >

> In short, Roland was recommending NOT using the polar routine and

was > considering removing it in the future. The two star routine was

recommended. >

> Regards,

> Robin

>

> Astro Accessories by Robin Casady

> Stainless Steel Weights & Dovetail Saddles

> www.CarmelCoast.com/Astro/sales.html

>

> Casady & Greene, Inc.

> www.casadyg.com



----------------------------

#7031 Aug 24, 2001

Hi Jim,



I just tried the 2 start alignment last night, and although it took many

iterations to get it right, the AP1200 was dead on. I continually checked

the pointing accuracy over the entire sky for several hours and was

astonished to find it was always within 3 arc minutes. From Vega to

Fomalhaut to Algenib, I usually got 1-2 arc minutes, but never worse than

3. I have always used the one start alignment before and gotten usable but

not nearly as good results. No more though. I'm sold on the 2 star approach.



As regards the procedure, my manual says to use the keypad for the first

pass on the two stars, then use half keypad and half alt-az controls for

each succeeding star alignment. That makes it more tedious, but the results

for me have been very good.



Cheers,



Andy Thompson





At 03:15 PM 8/24/01 +0000, you wrote: >I'm not sure why there is a problem. I have used the polar star method

>for aligning my 600 GOTO mount for years now and have had no problem.

>On the other hand when I tried to use the 2 star method I HAVE had

>problems. As I recall in one instruction manual using the 2 star

>method you were suppose to make the correction after the scope slewed

>to the 2nd star with the alt. Az, control on the mount and in the

>other manual you were instructed to make only ONE-HALF correction.

>That's much more confusing to me. Which is correct?

>

> Jim

>

>

> >

> > > What am I misunderstanding?

> >

> > There was a discussion on the ap-gto list about the polar routine.

>See:

> > "[ap-gto] Re: Polar Alignment one more time". You might find that

>discussion

> > worthwhile. I'll forward one of the most enlightening messages

>offlist.

> >

> > In short, Roland was recommending NOT using the polar routine and

>was

> > considering removing it in the future. The two star routine was

>recommended.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Robin

> >

> > Astro Accessories by Robin Casady

> > Stainless Steel Weights & Dovetail Saddles

> > www.CarmelCoast.com/Astro/sales.html

> >

> > Casady & Greene, Inc.

> > www.casadyg.com

>

>

>

>To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

>see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

>

>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/







----------------------------

#7032 Aug 24, 2001

Thanks Andy,

I'm definately going to have to learn the two star method. I'm

thinking of replacing the mount in my observatory with a 1200 QMD. I

first have to find rings that will hold my AP 9" F/15 Folded Tube

assembly and attach to a 1200 mounting plate. I'm thinking Parallax

(Is that the right name?). I then have to figure some other things out

like how to get the old mount out. And, if I get all that done I will

have to use the two star method because Polaris will be directly

behind my 3rd floor. My observatory was built over a one story

outbuilding (now Kitchen) on the South side of a 3 story Rowhouse

(Brownstone). You can't see the northern sky.



Jim



> Hi Jim,

>

> I just tried the 2 start alignment last night, and although it took

many > iterations to get it right, the AP1200 was dead on. I continually

checked > the pointing accuracy over the entire sky for several hours and was

> astonished to find it was always within 3 arc minutes. From Vega to

> Fomalhaut to Algenib, I usually got 1-2 arc minutes, but never worse

than > 3. I have always used the one start alignment before and gotten

usable but > not nearly as good results. No more though. I'm sold on the 2 star

approach. >

> As regards the procedure, my manual says to use the keypad for the

first > pass on the two stars, then use half keypad and half alt-az controls

for > each succeeding star alignment. That makes it more tedious, but the

results > for me have been very good.

>

> Cheers,

>

> Andy Thompson

>

>

> At 03:15 PM 8/24/01 +0000, you wrote:

> >I'm not sure why there is a problem. I have used the polar star

method > >for aligning my 600 GOTO mount for years now and have had no

problem. > >On the other hand when I tried to use the 2 star method I HAVE had

> >problems. As I recall in one instruction manual using the 2 star

> >method you were suppose to make the correction after the scope

slewed > >to the 2nd star with the alt. Az, control on the mount and in the

> >other manual you were instructed to make only ONE-HALF correction.

> >That's much more confusing to me. Which is correct?

> >

> > Jim

> >

> >

> > >

> > > > What am I misunderstanding?

> > >

> > > There was a discussion on the ap-gto list about the polar

routine. > >See:

> > > "[ap-gto] Re: Polar Alignment one more time". You might find

that > >discussion

> > > worthwhile. I'll forward one of the most enlightening messages

> >offlist.

> > >

> > > In short, Roland was recommending NOT using the polar routine

and > >was

> > > considering removing it in the future. The two star routine was

> >recommended.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Robin

> > >

> > > Astro Accessories by Robin Casady

> > > Stainless Steel Weights & Dovetail Saddles

> > > www.CarmelCoast.com/Astro/sales.html

> > >

> > > Casady & Greene, Inc.

> > > www.casadyg.com

> >

> >

> >

> >To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> >see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

> >

> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



----------------------------

#7033 Aug 24, 2001

On 8/24/01 10:21 AM thefamily@... wrote:

> I'm definately going to have to learn the two star method. I'm

> thinking of replacing the mount in my observatory with a 1200 QMD.



I thought the two star method was a goto routine. How can you do it with a

QMD?



Regards,

Robin



Astro Accessories by Robin Casady

Stainless Steel Weights & Dovetail Saddles

www.CarmelCoast.com/Astro/sales.html



Casady & Greene, Inc.

www.casadyg.com



----------------------------

#7052 Aug 26, 2001

Andy,

Can you describe in detail the drift alignment method? When I get

my 1200 QMD mount in place I'd like to get it as accurately alighned

as possible and I understand when you get close, very close, using

other methods , the drift method will get you right on. Thanks.



Jim

>

> Andy,

>

> You probably didn't try this, but I would be real curious if the

drift > alignment of you mount was right on the money after you go thru this

> excercise.

>

> Tim Povlick

> San Juan Capistrano, CA

>

> --- In ap-ug@y..., Andy Thompson support@s...> wrote:

> >

> > I just tried the 2 start alignment last night, and although it

took > many

> > iterations to get it right, the AP1200 was dead on. I continually

> checked

> > the pointing accuracy over the entire sky for several hours and

was > > astonished to find it was always within 3 arc minutes. From Vega

to > > Fomalhaut to Algenib, I usually got 1-2 arc minutes, but never

worse > than

> > 3. I have always used the one start alignment before and gotten

> usable but

> > not nearly as good results. No more though. I'm sold on the 2 star

> approach.

> >

> > As regards the procedure, my manual says to use the keypad for the

> first

> > pass on the two stars, then use half keypad and half alt-az

controls > for

> > each succeeding star alignment. That makes it more tedious, but

the > results

> > for me have been very good.

> >

> > Cheers,

> >

> > Andy Thompson

> >

> >







----------------------------

#7081 Aug 27, 2001

Andy,

Thanks very much. I got out my NGC Max manual today and there is

no two star method for aligning the polar axis accurately. Only the

one star method that requires being able to see Polaris. I called JMI

and confirmed that. The gentleman I spoke to Faxed a copy of the star

drift method. I think you have it just right. Thanks!



Jim



> Hi Jim,

>

> I did try the drift alignment to check the 2-start method and saw

very > little drift after about one hour ( 5"" for azimuth and 15" for

> altitude). I have little experience in the drift method so I'm not

sure I > was doing it right, but I think I did. I have only tried the 2-star

> alignment once, so maybe I just got lucky the first time and hit it

dead on. >

> Here is my understanding of the drift alignment procedure.

>

> Part 1: Azimuth adjustments:

> 1. Aim the scope at a star near the celestial equator, somewhat

south of > the zenith.

> 2. Align one of the reticle axes with the telescope's NS axis.

> 3. Center the star in the reticle.

> 4. After 15 minutes check the NS drift. Ignore the EW drift. If

there is no > drift, you're done. If the star has drifted north, the scope is

pointed too > far west. If it has drifted south, it is too far east. Adjust the

azimuth > controls on the mount accordingly.

>

>

> Part 2: Altitude adjustments:

> 1. Aim the scope at a star near the celestial equator, as far east

as > possible.

> 2. Align one of the reticle axes with the telescope's NS axis.

> 3. Center the star in the reticle.

> 4. After 15 minutes check the NS drift. Ignore the EW drift. If

there is no > drift, you're done. If the star has drifted north, the scope is

pointed too > high. If it has drifted south, it is too low. Adjust the altitude

controls > on the mount accordingly.

>

> That is my understanding of the drift alignment procedure. I didn't

> actually make any adjustments. I only noted the drift after one

hour and > concluded it was pretty good. There is another good description at

> www.aa6g.org/Astronomy/Articles/drift_align.html and another

at > www.darkskyimages.com/quick.html.

>

> Cheers,

>

> Andy Thompson

>

> At 11:46 AM 8/26/2001 -0000, you wrote:

> >Andy,

> > Can you describe in detail the drift alignment method? When I

get > >my 1200 QMD mount in place I'd like to get it as accurately

alighned > >as possible and I understand when you get close, very close, using

> >other methods , the drift method will get you right on. Thanks.

> >

> >Jim

> >

> >>

> >> Andy,

> >>

> >> You probably didn't try this, but I would be real curious if the

> >drift

> >> alignment of you mount was right on the money after you go thru

this > >> excercise.

> >>

> >> Tim Povlick

> >> San Juan Capistrano, CA

> >>

> >> --- In ap-ug@y..., Andy Thompson support@s...> wrote:

> >> >

> >> > I just tried the 2 start alignment last night, and although it

> >took

> >> many

> >> > iterations to get it right, the AP1200 was dead on. I

continually > >> checked

> >> > the pointing accuracy over the entire sky for several hours

and > >was

> >> > astonished to find it was always within 3 arc minutes. From

Vega > >to

> >> > Fomalhaut to Algenib, I usually got 1-2 arc minutes, but never

> >worse

> >> than

> >> > 3. I have always used the one start alignment before and gotten

> >> usable but

> >> > not nearly as good results. No more though. I'm sold on the 2

star > >> approach.

> >> >

> >> > As regards the procedure, my manual says to use the keypad for

the > >> first

> >> > pass on the two stars, then use half keypad and half alt-az

> >controls

> >> for

> >> > each succeeding star alignment. That makes it more tedious,

but > >the

> >> results

> >> > for me have been very good.

> >> >

> >> > Cheers,

> >> >

> >> > Andy Thompson

> >> >

> >> >

> >

> >

> >

> >To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> >see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

> >

> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

> >

> >



----------------------------

#7410 Sep 14, 2001

In a message dated 9/14/01 2:16:28 PM, direland@... writes:

>My biggest alignment problem is that tightening the alt and AZ bolts on

>my

>600GTO always throws the alignment off. You have to estimate the error

>the

>tightening will produce and consciously misalign before tightening. Anyone

>have any tips on how to do this well?

>Dale



Dale:

Test alignment, loosen AZ or ALT knobs/bolts, adjust, tighten AZ or ALT

knobs, Test alignment.



For really accurate polar alignment with my 1200GTO, the above is the

sequence I follow. You CAN'T have the particular adjustment (AZ or ALT)

loose, aligned and then tightened, as it will move a small amount.

Kent Kirkley







----------------------------

#7413 Sep 14, 2001

Hi Dale,



When I get close I tighten the altitude and azimuth knobs. I then use the

pier turn-buckles to fine tune the alignment. Of course this only works

with the AP pier, but it works very well. The buckles need only be rotated

typically 5-15 degrees to move the axis the required amount. Its a great

technique for fine tuning the polar alignment.



Cheers,



Andy Thompson







At 10:34 AM 9/14/2001 -0700, you wrote: >My biggest alignment problem is that tightening the alt and AZ bolts on my

>600GTO always throws the alignment off. You have to estimate the error the

>tightening will produce and consciously misalign before tightening. Anyone

>have any tips on how to do this well?

>Dale

>

>

>

>To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

>see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

>

>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



----------------------------

#7415 Sep 14, 2001

In a message dated 9/14/01 6:40:50 PM, support@... writes:

>Hi Dale,

>

>When I get close I tighten the altitude and azimuth knobs. I then use the

>

>pier turn-buckles to fine tune the alignment. Of course this only works

>

>with the AP pier, but it works very well. The buckles need only be rotated

>

>typically 5-15 degrees to move the axis the required amount. Its a great

>

>technique for fine tuning the polar alignment.

>

>Cheers,

>

>Andy Thompson



Andy:

You may have made this work for you but adjusting the turn-buckles to polar

align an AP mount is an inefficient approach. When you attempt to 'aim" the

mount with this approach, you are moving the mount in both AZ and ALT, which

means it will take many more iterations to reach the alignment point. When

using the Declination Drift method of alignment, you adjust one, then the

other axis. This is for highly accurate alignment which is necessary for

photography.



For casual visual use, us the polar alignment scope. A properly adjusted AP

Polar alignment scope will get the mount so close that the GTO feature works

well.



Kent Kirkley



----------------------------

#7417 Sep 14, 2001

Dale,



One of the things that I found helps a lot is replacing the Allen socket cap

screw with an adjustable clamping lever. (You can find one in the MSC

catalog under tooling components and fasteners.) Then you have much more

control over the friction on the latitude adjustment when you are polar

aligning. I am surprised Wally and Roland don't put one on to start with.

It is not perfect but makes the job much easier. Yes, you do have to guess

which direction and how far it will move when you make the final tightening,

but it is much better.



Joe Ewing

Conroe, Texas



----------------------------

#7419 Sep 15, 2001

Hi Kent,



The buckle method works quite well with two-star method and gives me

alignment quite sufficient for exposures of 45 minutes (my longest so far).

I've tried the polar alignment scope many times and it works well enough

for a good first pass alignment. I then use the two-star alignment and it

produces excellent results. It is in the final iterations of this process

that I use the buckle tweaking.



By using the two-star alignment I can reliably get a worst-case pointing

accuracy of 3 arc minutes on my 1200. Using only the polar scope the

pointing accuracy is much poorer ( about 20 arc minutes worst case) and

gets progressively worse during the night..even after checking and

calibrating the polar scope for orthogonality.



I've never used drift alignment but I checked the two-star alignment using

the drift method on my last outing and found the (half hour) drift to be

zero in the altitude test and barely measurable in the azimuth test. I was

astonished at how well it worked.



Cheers,



Andy Thompson





At 08:59 PM 9/14/2001 -0400, you wrote:

>In a message dated 9/14/01 6:40:50 PM, support@... writes:

>

> >Hi Dale,

> >

> >When I get close I tighten the altitude and azimuth knobs. I then use the

> >

> >pier turn-buckles to fine tune the alignment. Of course this only works

> >

> >with the AP pier, but it works very well. The buckles need only be rotated

> >

> >typically 5-15 degrees to move the axis the required amount. Its a great

> >

> >technique for fine tuning the polar alignment.

> >

> >Cheers,

> >

> >Andy Thompson

>

>Andy:

>You may have made this work for you but adjusting the turn-buckles to polar

>align an AP mount is an inefficient approach. When you attempt to 'aim" the

>mount with this approach, you are moving the mount in both AZ and ALT, which

>means it will take many more iterations to reach the alignment point. When

>using the Declination Drift method of alignment, you adjust one, then the

>other axis. This is for highly accurate alignment which is necessary for

>photography.

>

>For casual visual use, us the polar alignment scope. A properly adjusted AP

>Polar alignment scope will get the mount so close that the GTO feature works

>well.

>

>Kent Kirkley

>

>

>To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

>see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

>

>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/







----------------------------

#7420 Sep 15, 2001

Peter,



I mean altitude. (I was thinking of latitude affecting the perceived

altitude of the celestial pole.) One could trade clamping levers for the

knobs for the azimuth lock-down, but these do not seem to be as much of a

problem.



Joe Ewing

Conroe, Texas



----------------------------

#7421 Sep 16, 2001

Kent,



I don't see how the tilt due to a turnbuckle change can twist the

mount into a significant azimuth change (assuming the pier is

essentially vertical). It seems to me, the direct motion will be in

elevation, with almost negligible translation to azimuth. Of course,

the turnbuckles adjusted need to be selected logically, but it seems

an intended north-south tension change will have very little

east-west involvement, and even less azimuth rotational movement. I

think the idea is basically a good one.



Chuck

--- In ap-ug@y..., kgkirkley@a... wrote:

>

>

> Andy:

> You may have made this work for you but adjusting the turn-buckles

to polar

> align an AP mount is an inefficient approach. When you attempt to

'aim" the

> mount with this approach, you are moving the mount in both AZ and

ALT, which

> means it will take many more iterations to reach the alignment

point. When

> using the Declination Drift method of alignment, you adjust one,

then the

> other axis. This is for highly accurate alignment which is

necessary

for

> photography.

>

> For casual visual use, us the polar alignment scope. A properly

adjusted AP

> Polar alignment scope will get the mount so close that the GTO

feature works

> well.

>

> Kent Kirkley



----------------------------

#7424 Sep 17, 2001

In a message dated 9/14/2001 7:10:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

JosephGEwing@... writes:



> . I am surprised Wally and Roland don't put one on to start with.

> It is not perfect but makes the job much easier.



They rust.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#7431 Sep 17, 2001

Re: Rust. Plastic handle ones don't rust and you can fit it out with a

stainless steel bolt that can be glued or lock-tited into the handle. Would

it be worth an "experiment"?



Joe Ewing

Conroe, Texas



----------------------------

#10367 Feb 26 10:26 PM

About a month ago I made a 65-star mapping run with Software Bisque's T-Point and my 1200 mount. T-Point told me my polar axis was 80 arc seconds low and 10 arc seconds East of the true pole. Tonight the moon was full, not much chance to look at galaxies, so I decided to tweak the polar alignment. I know that each "hash mark" on my recticle eyepiece represents about 18 arc seconds of sky. So it was a simple matter to raise the polar axis by 3 1/2 hash marks. I then performed a 100-star mapping run, just for the heck of it.

Results: my polar axis is now 10 arc seconds low and 20 arc seconds East of the true pole. I'm not sure where the extra E-W error crept in, as I did not touch that adjustment. I suspect I might not have retightened the elevation bolts equally on the East & the West sides, and thus introduced a little E-W error.

In any case, using 11 variables in the T-Point model, 60 of my mapped stars now fall within a circle with a radus of 18 arc seconds. The other 40 stars fall within the outer circle of 50 arc seconds.

The pointing accuracy I have achieved suits my current needs fine, but striving for more accuracy is fun, and besides if I ever get a longer focal length telescope, (like a 10" MC!), it might even be useful. To achieve higher accuracy I think I am going to have to "beef up" the connection between the 2.7" focuser and the imaging train (Van Slyke Slider followed by ST-8E camera). The 2" adapter works fine for eyepieces, even very large ones, but is a little bit flimsy for my imaging train. I have spoken to Marj about buying a 2" adapter with three locking screws, and she is considering the request. If they can't do it, I'll probably just buy an extra 2" adapter and take it to the local machine shop. I am convinced that after I "firm up" this joint that I will be able to achieve truly astonishing pointing accuracy, and polar alignment, perhaps within 10 arc seconds.

When doing accurate polar alignment, it is important to realize that any flexure in the imaging train can throw off the accuracy of the final results (we are talking arc SECONDS, after all).

Clear skies to everyone!

Pat Madden





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#10373 Feb 27 5:38 AM

Is it posible that your mount is not precisly level? You may have introduced

more E-W error when moving up 80 arcsec because the mount is not moving

straight up (north).



Andy



-----Original Message-----

From: RevPJMadden@... [mailto:RevPJMadden@...]

Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 10:26 PM

To: AP Users Group

Subject: [ap-ug] Using T-Point for Polar Alignment





About a month ago I made a 65-star mapping run with Software Bisque's

T-Point and my 1200 mount. T-Point told me my polar axis was 80 arc seconds

low and 10 arc seconds East of the true pole. Tonight the moon was full,

not much chance to look at galaxies, so I decided to tweak the polar

alignment. I know that each "hash mark" on my recticle eyepiece represents

about 18 arc seconds of sky. So it was a simple matter to raise the polar

axis by 3 1/2 hash marks. I then performed a 100-star mapping run, just for

the heck of it.

Results: my polar axis is now 10 arc seconds low and 20 arc seconds

East of the true pole. I'm not sure where the extra E-W error crept in, as

I did not touch that adjustment. I suspect I might not have retightened the

elevation bolts equally on the East & the West sides, and thus introduced a

little E-W error.

In any case, using 11 variables in the T-Point model, 60 of my mapped

stars now fall within a circle with a radus of 18 arc seconds. The other 40

stars fall within the outer circle of 50 arc seconds.

The pointing accuracy I have achieved suits my current needs fine, but

striving for more accuracy is fun, and besides if I ever get a longer focal

length telescope, (like a 10" MC!), it might even be useful. To achieve

higher accuracy I think I am going to have to "beef up" the connection

between the 2.7" focuser and the imaging train (Van Slyke Slider followed by

ST-8E camera). The 2" adapter works fine for eyepieces, even very large

ones, but is a little bit flimsy for my imaging train. I have spoken to

Marj about buying a 2" adapter with three locking screws, and she is

considering the request. If they can't do it, I'll probably just buy an

extra 2" adapter and take it to the local machine shop. I am convinced that

after I "firm up" this joint that I will be able to achieve truly

astonishing pointing accuracy, and polar alignment, perhaps within 10 arc

seconds.

When doing accurate polar alignment, it is important to realize that any

flexure in the imaging train can throw off the accuracy of the final results

(we are talking arc SECONDS, after all).

Clear skies to everyone!

Pat Madden





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/







----------------------------

#10376 Feb 27 6:31 AM

Hi Pat,



Another way to firm up the image train is to use SCT-threaded adapters for

the focuser and the ST-8E, although I don't know whether it is possible with

the Van Slyke Slider. There is a brief write-up on how I do it in my

technical notes (Secure CCD Mounting) at:



www.hiddenloft.darkhorizons.org/notes.htm



John

www.hiddenloft.darkhorizons.org/



-----Original Message-----

From: RevPJMadden@... [mailto:RevPJMadden@...]

Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:26 PM

To: AP Users Group

Subject: [ap-ug] Using T-Point for Polar Alignment



About a month ago I made a 65-star mapping run with Software Bisque's

T-Point and my 1200 mount. T-Point told me my polar axis was 80 arc seconds

low and 10 arc seconds East of the true pole. Tonight the moon was full,

not much chance to look at galaxies, so I decided to tweak the polar

alignment. I know that each "hash mark" on my recticle eyepiece represents

about 18 arc seconds of sky. So it was a simple matter to raise the polar

axis by 3 1/2 hash marks. I then performed a 100-star mapping run, just for

the heck of it.

Results: my polar axis is now 10 arc seconds low and 20 arc seconds

East of the true pole. I'm not sure where the extra E-W error crept in, as

I did not touch that adjustment. I suspect I might not have retightened the

elevation bolts equally on the East & the West sides, and thus introduced a

little E-W error.

In any case, using 11 variables in the T-Point model, 60 of my mapped

stars now fall within a circle with a radus of 18 arc seconds. The other 40

stars fall within the outer circle of 50 arc seconds.

The pointing accuracy I have achieved suits my current needs fine, but

striving for more accuracy is fun, and besides if I ever get a longer focal

length telescope, (like a 10" MC!), it might even be useful. To achieve

higher accuracy I think I am going to have to "beef up" the connection

between the 2.7" focuser and the imaging train (Van Slyke Slider followed by

ST-8E camera). The 2" adapter works fine for eyepieces, even very large

ones, but is a little bit flimsy for my imaging train. I have spoken to

Marj about buying a 2" adapter with three locking screws, and she is

considering the request. If they can't do it, I'll probably just buy an

extra 2" adapter and take it to the local machine shop. I am convinced that

after I "firm up" this joint that I will be able to achieve truly

astonishing pointing accuracy, and polar alignment, perhaps within 10 arc

seconds.

When doing accurate polar alignment, it is important to realize that any

flexure in the imaging train can throw off the accuracy of the final results

(we are talking arc SECONDS, after all).

Clear skies to everyone!

Pat Madden





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



----------------------------

#10382 Feb 27 7:18 AM

In a message dated 2/27/2002 5:41:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,

CS-Imaging@... writes:



> In any case, using 11 variables in the T-Point model, 60 of my mapped

> stars now fall within a circle with a radus of 18 arc seconds. The other

> 40

> stars fall within the outer circle of 50 arc seconds.

>



That's extremely good accuracy for any mount.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#13117 Aug 15, 2002

Hello All,



I have seen a few people asking about improving polar alignment even if they have the AP polar

alignment scope. Well, if you have a polar alignment scope and have not calibrated it I suggest you

check it! But you don't need to align it in the mount. Just make yourself a couple of wooden

"v-blocks" that you can use to cradle the polar alignment scope and rotate the polar scope on the

v-blocks while looking at a distant object. Then star adjust the three screws until the center does

not move when you rotate it. Mine was pretty far off when I got it so it is probably likely others

are.



Two nights ago I checked my polar alignment with TPoint against my mount and found I was only 1.6

arc-min east and 1 arc minute low. Not too bad and good enough for 20-minute CCD exposures!



Anyone have an idea of a common household or hardware store item to use instead of making a couple

"v-blocks"?



-Ray Gralak



----------------------------

#13120 Aug 15, 2002

If you have a vise you can put a block of anything between the jaws tighten down and it will hold them

open a bit. Then lay the polar alignment scope along the jaws and it will act like v-blocks



Ray Gralak wrote:

> Hello All,

>

> I have seen a few people asking about improving polar alignment even if they have the AP polar

> alignment scope. Well, if you have a polar alignment scope and have not calibrated it I suggest you

> check it! But you don't need to align it in the mount. Just make yourself a couple of wooden

> "v-blocks" that you can use to cradle the polar alignment scope and rotate the polar scope on the

> v-blocks while looking at a distant object. Then star adjust the three screws until the center does

> not move when you rotate it. Mine was pretty far off when I got it so it is probably likely others

> are.

>

> Two nights ago I checked my polar alignment with TPoint against my mount and found I was only 1.6

> arc-min east and 1 arc minute low. Not too bad and good enough for 20-minute CCD exposures!

>

> Anyone have an idea of a common household or hardware store item to use instead of making a couple

> "v-blocks"?

>

> -Ray Gralak

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



--

==

Greg Mueller Port Gamble, Washington

Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut



Tech Tools and Astronomer's Gizmos

www.muellersatomics.com/

Homepage

users.silverlink.net/~mueller/

==







----------------------------

#13121 Aug 15, 2002

Good idea Greg!



-Ray

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Greg Mueller [mailto:mueller@...]

> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 3:01 PM

> To: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Polar Alignment scope calibration tip

>

>

> If you have a vise you can put a block of anything between the jaws tighten down and it

> will hold them

> open a bit. Then lay the polar alignment scope along the jaws and it will act like v-blocks

>

> Ray Gralak wrote:

>

> > Hello All,

> >

> > I have seen a few people asking about improving polar alignment even if they have the AP polar

> > alignment scope. Well, if you have a polar alignment scope and have not calibrated it I

> suggest you

> > check it! But you don't need to align it in the mount. Just make yourself a couple of wooden

> > "v-blocks" that you can use to cradle the polar alignment scope and rotate the polar

> scope on the

> > v-blocks while looking at a distant object. Then star adjust the three screws until the

> center does

> > not move when you rotate it. Mine was pretty far off when I got it so it is probably

> likely others

> > are.

> >

> > Two nights ago I checked my polar alignment with TPoint against my mount and found I

> was only 1.6

> > arc-min east and 1 arc minute low. Not too bad and good enough for 20-minute CCD exposures!

> >

> > Anyone have an idea of a common household or hardware store item to use instead of

> making a couple

> > "v-blocks"?

> >

> > -Ray Gralak

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

> >

> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

> --

> ==

> Greg Mueller Port Gamble, Washington

> Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut

>

> Tech Tools and Astronomer's Gizmos

> www.muellersatomics.com/

> Homepage

> users.silverlink.net/~mueller/

> ==

>

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>

>

>



----------------------------

#13127 Aug 16, 2002

Thanks for the note.



On this topic, how does one rotate the reticule in the scope so that it

matches up with the current configuration of Polaris? I feel stupid asking

but have tried to find it in the book and tried loosening all of the

screws, etc. with no luck.



Bob







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#13131 Aug 17, 2002

At 08:56 PM 8/16/2002 -0700, Robert Bond wrote: >Thanks for the note.

>

>On this topic, how does one rotate the reticule in the scope so that it

>matches up with the current configuration of Polaris? I feel stupid asking

>but have tried to find it in the book and tried loosening all of the

>screws, etc. with no luck.



Bob: rotate the RA axis til the patterns match.



Dave



----------------------------

#13133 Aug 17, 2002

In a message dated 8/16/2002 10:56:02 PM Central Daylight Time,

r.bond@... writes:



> On this topic, how does one rotate the reticule in the scope so that it

> matches up with the current configuration of Polaris? I feel stupid asking

>

> but have tried to find it in the book and tried loosening all of the

> screws, etc. with no luck.

>



With our old polar scope you rotate the RA axis until the reticle lines up.

With the new version (which we are about to ship) the scope will rotate

within a collar.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#13135 Aug 17, 2002

I've been rotating my polar alignment scope, reticle and all, by

unscrewing it a little - up to 359 degrees. It's a little more

convenient than rotating the RA axis. This seems to work OK, at least

for visual observing.



Concerning a closely related topic, are replacements for the tiny allen

wrenches (for the reticle adjustment) available? Mine is rusting in the

grass next to the Brasstown Bald parking lot.



--

Best regards,

Chuck Hancock DMD



McDonough GA USA

> With our old polar scope you rotate the RA axis until the reticle lines up.

> With the new version (which we are about to ship) the scope will rotate

> within a collar.

>

> Roland Christen



----------------------------

#13136 Aug 17, 2002

I need one of the allen wreches also...Terry ----- Original Message -----

From: "Chuck Hancock" cdh59@...>

To: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 12:24 PM

Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Polar Alignment scope calibration tip





> I've been rotating my polar alignment scope, reticle and all, by

> unscrewing it a little - up to 359 degrees. It's a little more

> convenient than rotating the RA axis. This seems to work OK, at least

> for visual observing.

>

> Concerning a closely related topic, are replacements for the tiny allen

> wrenches (for the reticle adjustment) available? Mine is rusting in the

> grass next to the Brasstown Bald parking lot.

>

> --

> Best regards,

> Chuck Hancock DMD

>

> McDonough GA USA

>

> > With our old polar scope you rotate the RA axis until the reticle lines

up.

> > With the new version (which we are about to ship) the scope will rotate

> > within a collar.

> >

> > Roland Christen

>

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>

>







----------------------------

#13137 Aug 17, 2002

I have the old model PAS1 and it uses a standard 1.5mm allen head

wrench. You can get them at most hardware stores (or Home Depot or

Lowes). Just go to the aisle where they have all of the different

size nuts, bolts, etc in those cardboard slideout bins. There should

be one with allen head wrenches that you can buy individually. Bring

your PAS if you want to be sure.



--- In ap-ug@y..., Chuck Hancock cdh59@b...> wrote:

> I've been rotating my polar alignment scope, reticle and all, by

> unscrewing it a little - up to 359 degrees. It's a little more

> convenient than rotating the RA axis. This seems to work OK, at

least

> for visual observing.

>

> Concerning a closely related topic, are replacements for the tiny

allen

> wrenches (for the reticle adjustment) available? Mine is rusting

in the

> grass next to the Brasstown Bald parking lot.

>

> --

> Best regards,

> Chuck Hancock DMD

>

> McDonough GA USA

>

> > With our old polar scope you rotate the RA axis until the reticle

lines up.

> > With the new version (which we are about to ship) the scope will

rotate

> > within a collar.

> >

> > Roland Christen



----------------------------

#13141 Aug 18, 2002

Thanks for all of the replies on how to line up the polar scope. I knew I

was missing something simple. I tried it tonight and it worked great.



Bob



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#13151 Aug 19, 2002

In a message dated 8/17/2002 2:25:08 PM Central Daylight Time,

cdh59@... writes:



> Concerning a closely related topic, are replacements for the tiny allen

> wrenches (for the reticle adjustment) available



Yes, we will have them available.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#14215 Dec 13, 2002

Hi folks



Question.... what is the maximum distance one needs to be off the pole

to get nice round stars with unguided exposures?



1 arc-minute? 2 arc-minutes?



Or does one need to be within arc-seconds?





Thanks



Joe



----------------------------

#14216 Dec 13, 2002

In a message dated 12/13/2002 1:58:25 PM Central Standard Time,

jmarietta@... writes:



> Question.... what is the maximum distance one needs to be off the pole

> to get nice round stars with unguided exposures?

>



Hard to answer without knowing exposure times, focal length, pixel scale,

roundness is pixel x pixel etc.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#14217 Dec 13, 2002

Hi Roland

I figured that my question was to broad! :-)



I want to do 5 or 10 minute unguided exposures using my AP 155 F/7 on

an AP 900 GTO with a pixel scale of 1.4 arcsec/pixel using my ST 2000

SBIG camera. The active image area is 1600 x 1200 pixels at 7.4 microns



On Friday, December 13, 2002, at 03:07 PM, chris1011@... wrote:



> In a message dated 12/13/2002 1:58:25 PM Central Standard Time,

> jmarietta@... writes:

>

>

>> Question.... what is the maximum distance one needs to be off the

>> pole

>> to get nice round stars with unguided exposures?

>>

>

> Hard to answer without knowing exposure times, focal length, pixel

> scale,

> roundness is pixel x pixel etc.

>

> Roland Christen

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

> docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#14218 Dec 13, 2002

In a message dated 12/13/2002 2:41:22 PM Central Standard Time,

jmarietta@... writes:



> I want to do 5 or 10 minute unguided exposures using my AP 155 F/7 on

> an AP 900 GTO with a pixel scale of 1.4 arcsec/pixel using my ST 2000



Can be done, but why worry about polar alignment? Do a drift alignment using

the power of the CCD camera. Zero out the drift in both axes (no drift for 10

minutes), do a bit of PEM correction and start shooting. Do a bunch of

exposures, throw away the bad ones, combine them and you'll have round stars.

If they are slightly oval, there are ways to make 'em round using Photoshop

techniques.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#14219 Dec 13, 2002

Roland,

Sounds good to me.



When you did your CCD Drift technique at Trent's observatory, Does it

matter where you point the scope to zero out both axes? ..... meridian?

equator?



I ask because when you do a formal drift technique, you point to the

meridian for AZ and to the horizon for AL.....



But it sounds like you pointed to one location only to do both axes..





Thanks



Joe

On Friday, December 13, 2002, at 03:46 PM, chris1011@... wrote:



> In a message dated 12/13/2002 2:41:22 PM Central Standard Time,

> jmarietta@... writes:

>

>

>> I want to do 5 or 10 minute unguided exposures using my AP 155 F/7 on

>> an AP 900 GTO with a pixel scale of 1.4 arcsec/pixel using my ST 2000

>

> Can be done, but why worry about polar alignment? Do a drift alignment

> using

> the power of the CCD camera. Zero out the drift in both axes (no drift

> for 10

> minutes), do a bit of PEM correction and start shooting. Do a bunch of

> exposures, throw away the bad ones, combine them and you'll have round

> stars.

> If they are slightly oval, there are ways to make 'em round using

> Photoshop

> techniques.

>

> Roland Christen

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

> docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>







----------------------------

#14220 Dec 13, 2002

In a message dated 12/13/2002 3:07:36 PM Central Standard Time,

jmarietta@... writes:



> But it sounds like you pointed to one location only to do both axes..

>

>



We pointed the scope to a starfield near the celestial equator maybe 1 hour

east of the meridian (you can go west also). Drift will be apparent both in

RA and Dec. Dec drift is nulled out primarily with azimuth adjustment, Ra

with altitude. There is some interaction, but this can be overcome with

several iterations between the two axes.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#14275 Dec 27, 2002

Folks,



Would you mind taking look at this image of a T&A Chart I made in

CCDOPS last night for polar alignment. The DEC is the "X" axis and the

"Y" is RA. I had the PEM playing.



www.astrodoc.com/images/Dec_drift_12_27.jpg



The DEC looks pretty good in that this recording was made over a 10

minute unguided T&A.



Concerning the RA, shouldn't it be flatter with PEM on? I must

confess, looking at this diagram, I can't tell if the RA line is going

up or down? For scale, 1 pixel = 1.4 arcseconds.



Finally the best I could get using Tpoint as a guide is the following:



www.astrodoc.com/images/last_Tpoint_run.jpg



I do want to point out that the correct ME (polar elevation) for the

refracted pole at my latitude is -65, thus I only 10 arcseconds off....



Thanks



Joe



----------------------------

#14276 Dec 27, 2002

In a message dated 12/27/2002 4:26:56 PM Central Standard Time,

jmarietta@... writes:



>

> The DEC looks pretty good in that this recording was made over a 10

> minute unguided T&A.

>

> Concerning the RA, shouldn't it be flatter with PEM on? I must

> confess, looking at this diagram, I can't tell if the RA line is going

> up or down? For scale, 1 pixel = 1.4 arcseconds.

>

>



I don't know what you mean by flatter? Do you mean less wiggle or less drift?





PEM will not affect the drift in RA. It only affects the periodic error and

leaves drift untouched. T-Point will also not reduce the drift to zero in RA.

It affects primarily the pointing accuracy of the mount, not RA or Dec drift.

To eliminate drift requires that you do a drift alignment. Drift alignment

eliminates (or at least minimizes) long term drift in the two axes, hence the

name "Drift Alignment". It is easy to do with your CCD camera and T&A. Simply

raise or lower the altitude axis until RA drift is nulled out (Dec drift is

nulled with the azimuth adjustmant primarily). Then all you will have left is

periodic error. This can be minimized with proper training of the PEM

function, but can never be totally eliminated.



How well the mount tracks with PEM "on" depends entirely on how steady the

atmosphere is when you do a training run. If the stars are bouncing all over

the place, and you use the autoguide function of the CCD camera, then it is

quite conceivable that you will introduce more errors into the memory than

there is in the worm to begin with.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#14278 Dec 27, 2002

In a message dated 12/27/2002 4:26:56 PM Central Standard Time,

jmarietta@... writes:



> I do want to point out that the correct ME (polar elevation) for the

> refracted pole at my latitude is -65



I'm not sure what this means. Are you talking about the refracted pole being

at altitude -65? This sounds rather low, it is below the horizon. Perhaps you

meant -65 arc seconds from the real pole? This sounds completely wrong also.

The refracted pole would be somewhat above the real pole.

>>I must confess, looking at this diagram, I can't tell if the RA line is

going

up or down? >>



From your chart, the RA drift is definitely up.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#14279 Dec 27, 2002

At 05:53 PM 12/27/2002 -0500, chris1011@... wrote: >In a message dated 12/27/2002 4:26:56 PM Central Standard Time,

>jmarietta@... writes:

>

>

> > I do want to point out that the correct ME (polar elevation) for the

> > refracted pole at my latitude is -65

>

>I'm not sure what this means. Are you talking about the refracted pole being

>at altitude -65? This sounds rather low, it is below the horizon. Perhaps you

>meant -65 arc seconds from the real pole? This sounds completely wrong also.

>The refracted pole would be somewhat above the real pole.



The negative sign is confusing Roland, but what it means is that the True

Pole is 65 arc-sec BELOW the refracted pole...



I agree, the sign on that term is apt to be confusing. He is aiming for the

refracted pole which by a table he referenced is 65 arc-sec above the true

pole.



I understand it and I'm still corn-fused!!!



grin>



Dave







----------------------------

#14280 Dec 27, 2002

Hi Roland

According to page 29 in the T-point manual, "for observers in the

northern hemisphere, the refracted pole is 1.0 to 1.5 arcminutes above

true north. For observers in the northern hemisphere, this corresponds

to a ME = -60 to -90". The table provides of ME listings for different

latitudes. My location is at 65.



I believe ME is the angular distance (in arcseconds) between the

refracted pole and the unrefracted pole.



I am not sure I am explaining this properly.



What did you think of the T&A chart?

Thanks

Joe







On Friday, December 27, 2002, at 06:11 PM, David B. Toth wrote:



> At 05:53 PM 12/27/2002 -0500, chris1011@... wrote:

>> In a message dated 12/27/2002 4:26:56 PM Central Standard Time,

>> jmarietta@... writes:

>>

>>

>>> I do want to point out that the correct ME (polar elevation) for the

>>> refracted pole at my latitude is -65

>>

>> I'm not sure what this means. Are you talking about the refracted

>> pole being

>> at altitude -65? This sounds rather low, it is below the horizon.

>> Perhaps you

>> meant -65 arc seconds from the real pole? This sounds completely

>> wrong also.

>> The refracted pole would be somewhat above the real pole.

>

> The negative sign is confusing Roland, but what it means is that the

> True

> Pole is 65 arc-sec BELOW the refracted pole...

>

> I agree, the sign on that term is apt to be confusing. He is aiming

> for the

> refracted pole which by a table he referenced is 65 arc-sec above the

> true

> pole.

>

> I understand it and I'm still corn-fused!!!

>

> grin>

>

> Dave

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

> docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>



----------------------------

#14281 Dec 27, 2002

In a message dated 12/27/2002 5:35:08 PM Central Standard Time,

jmarietta@... writes:



> What did you think of the T&A chart?

>



It shows low drift for Dec, but enough drift for RA to result in trailing. If

you adjust the altitude axis, this drift can be zeroed out, but the wiggles

will remain as long as you play back that version of your PEM. You should be

able to adjust the average drift rate to 1 pixel or less in 10 minutes, and

train your PEM to reduce the inherent periodic error by a factor of 2 in RA.

I cannot tell by the chart what your inherent error is because the mount was

run with PEM on.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#14284 Dec 27, 2002

Thanks Roland,



I have had very poor seeing.... am I correct in assuming that this

procedure is highly dependent on seeing?



Joe



On Friday, December 27, 2002, at 06:49 PM, chris1011@... wrote:



> In a message dated 12/27/2002 5:35:08 PM Central Standard Time,

> jmarietta@... writes:

>

>

>> What did you think of the T&A chart?

>>

>

> It shows low drift for Dec, but enough drift for RA to result in

> trailing. If

> you adjust the altitude axis, this drift can be zeroed out, but the

> wiggles

> will remain as long as you play back that version of your PEM. You

> should be

> able to adjust the average drift rate to 1 pixel or less in 10

> minutes, and

> train your PEM to reduce the inherent periodic error by a factor of 2

> in RA.

> I cannot tell by the chart what your inherent error is because the

> mount was

> run with PEM on.

>

> Roland Christen

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

> docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>



----------------------------

#14288 Dec 27, 2002

Roland,

I have learned a lot about my mount and polar alignment while using

your CCD drift method.



Last night I attempted a live video polar alignment using an Astrovid

2000 camera and T point. The Tpoint graph I posted earlier was a result

of this technique.



One thing I noticed is that when I loosen either the AZ or AL knobs,

just doing that would move the star on the screen at least 1 arc

minute. Tightening the screws back to their original position would

move the star back to center.



Thus I was wondering, when you do your polar alignment procedure, do

you keep the knobs loose while you are making adjustments or do you

tighten down the appropriate axis after every time you make a single

change?



Thanks



Joe







>>>

>>

>> It shows low drift for Dec, but enough drift for RA to result in

>> trailing. If

>> you adjust the altitude axis, this drift can be zeroed out, but the

>> wiggles

>> will remain as long as you play back that version of your PEM. You

>> should be

>> able to adjust the average drift rate to 1 pixel or less in 10

>> minutes, and

>> train your PEM to reduce the inherent periodic error by a factor of 2

>> in RA.

>> I cannot tell by the chart what your inherent error is because the

>> mount was

>> run with PEM on.

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

> docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>







----------------------------

#14292 Dec 28, 2002

In a message dated 12/27/2002 8:12:45 PM Central Standard Time,

jmarietta@... writes:



> I have had very poor seeing.... am I correct in assuming that this

> procedure is highly dependent on seeing?

>



Yes, absolutely. Try running without the PEM on first to see what level of

error needs to be compensated.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#14293 Dec 28, 2002

In a message dated 12/27/2002 11:29:34 PM Central Standard Time,

jmarietta@... writes:



>

> Thus I was wondering, when you do your polar alignment procedure, do

> you keep the knobs loose while you are making adjustments or do you

> tighten down the appropriate axis after every time you make a single

> change?

>



When I do drift alignment, I work with one axis only at a time, loosening it,

adjusting then tightening it. The other axis stays tight during this

procedure. That way I am always keeping the alignment the same.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#15889 Mar 9, 2003

Hi all,



I have tried my new Everbrite 2"diagonal mirror with my 155 EDFS during the

last night.

At high power, I have noticed that the first diffraction ring was not

complete , and the Airy disk not centered. Unfortunately, I didn't have my

extension tube in my case, so I was not able to do the star test without

diagonal. I ma sure it was not the eyepiece or the air turbulence.

But what is the reason: diagonal, alignment ( my car is not a shaker!).



Hope your helps



Gilles

---------------

Gilles et H.l.ne COHEN

Villa Coatliou, "Le Val d'Or"

120, all.e de Sassy

83700 SAINT RAPHAEL



---------------



----------------------------

#15925 Mar 10, 2003

In a message dated 3/9/2003 8:31:20 AM Central Standard Time,

gilles.cohen8@... writes:



> But what is the reason: diagonal, alignment ( my car is not a shaker!).



You can check the alignment of the diagonal by rotating it 180 degrees with a

star centered at high power. If the star moves off center during the rotation

of the diagonal, then it is out of alignment.



Chances are that the reason for the broken diffraction ring is the cold

temperature which causes layering or stratification of the warm air in the

tube. If you are checking alignment, be sure to point the telescope straight

overhead to minimize this effect.



If you rule out both thermal and diagonal issues, then you can align the lens

cell more critically using the 3 sets of push-pull screws on the front of the

cell.



Roland Christen.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#16532 Apr 3, 2003

Thanks Roland, coming from you, that's high praise. I have to admit

that I often seek out your high-res DSO's as benchmarks when I'm

trying to push the limits.









Regarding your question, I can give you a nutshell of an algorithm

that may work.









For optimal results, one would typically do a routine that breaks down

the image into subregions until the difference between the correlation

of the subregion in the "reference" image and the comparison image

falls below some "quality threshold". This is as opposed to specifying

a static subregion size (i.e. break the image down into 10x10 regions)

. The great advantage is that it is adaptive. large regions that are

undisturbed can be processed as a whole whereas regions of rapid

fluctuation are subdivided until the differences are acceptable.









Once the routine has so divided up the image, and determined the

correlation values for each subregion, it can then create a warping

map. Each image is then warped to this map then stacked. Probably one

would want to further subdivide each region to get several sub-sub

regions so that the warping mesh would be fine enough.









Such an algorithm would likely work well for lunar images where

there's a wealth of information for the correlations on small

subregions. However on planetary images, it's likely to be

considerably more difficult. I did some R&D a few years ago to

determine the feasibility of implementing such a routine and found

that it was very difficult to get a good correlation because of noise

and the lack of many details. A high quality Jupiter set would

probably work.









I'd like to see a program that does implement this. For lunar imaging,

the images should be quite spectacular.









From what I've seen of Registax





aberrator.astronomy.net/registax/





it may do something along these lines. I've not had a good opportunity

to really try it on a good data set, so I can't comments. But the

examples do look good.









Best,





Ted



















--- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@a... wrote:





> In a message dated 4/3/2003 9:58:10 AM Central Standard Time,





> ted@s... writes:





>





>





> >





> > The true detail is of such incredibly low contrast that one really

has





> > to squeeze out every last bit of signal/noise and utilize every





> > advantage available when processing while being very conservative

in





> > additional processing like sharpening.





> > For comparison:





> > www.soleburymountain.com/Planets/saturn.htm





> >





> >





>





> That's a very impressive image. I ran into similar situation imaging

on the





> Moon and trying to align just a few frames. Only small areas of the

Moon





> would align properly, other areas looked double dribbled.





>





> I saw a really high resolution image of lunar detail last year

(cannot





> remember who took it) where the individual frames were divided up

into many





> sections, and each section was aligned, then stitched back together.

The end





> result was truly amazing. I believe the person wrote custom software

to do





> that. Anyone have any ideas how to write a program like that?





>





> Roland Christen





>





>





> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#17372 Jun 2, 2003

Hi all: I tried daytime polar alignment with my 600EGTO recently.

After following the manual procedure I entered GOTO Jupiter. The

scope ended pointing almost exactly opposite to the direction to

Jupiter, that is, pointing toward the ground. I've reread posts 13586

to 13613 of September 2002, but couldn't determine my error from

those. Any suggestions as to what I am doing wrong? We finally have a

clear day here and I'd like to get ready for tonight.

Peter



----------------------------

#17373 Jun 2, 2003

In a message dated 6/2/2003 10:13:08 AM Central Daylight Time,

steppzimmr@... writes:



> Hi all: I tried daytime polar alignment with my 600EGTO recently.

> After following the manual procedure I entered GOTO Jupiter. The

> scope ended pointing almost exactly opposite to the direction to

> Jupiter, that is, pointing toward the ground. I've reread posts 13586

> to 13613 of September 2002, but couldn't determine my error from

> those. Any suggestions as to what I am doing wrong?



Perhaps you started the telescope off on the wrong side of the mount? Which

park position did you start with and what sequence did you use? Make sure you

have entered the correct time, date, location and daylight savings time also.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#17377 Jun 2, 2003

In a message dated 6/2/03 12:45:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

chris1011@... writes:



> I guarantee that the mount will not be

> lost if it goes successfully into the 3 park positions.

>

> Roland Christen

>



You've given me hope! I'm off to set up for tonight. I'll let you know how it

works out.

Best wishes, Peter





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#19053 Oct 13, 2003

In a message dated 10/12/2003 9:30:47 PM Central Daylight Time,

jgpierce@... writes:



> In the post, Track and Accumulate was used with a series of 5 exposures of

> 30 seconds each, which showed x and y movement.



I usually do a series of 30 or more exposures at 5 to 10 seconds.



It sounds like the Altitude> > and Azimuth axes have to be aligned with the x and y axes of the camera. Is

> this true?



Yes, the axes have to be aligned with the camera.



And if so how do you go about getting this alignment accurate> > enough so a star's movement will only show up in one axis?



It does not have to be super accurate. If you are within a degree or two, the

method will work well.



In the same> thought.... do you use a star near the meridian and equator > for azimuth (like when polar aligning with an ocular) and a star on the horizon

> in the

> East for altitude?

>



One does not use this classic drift method because it is not accurate at CCD

level resolution. Alignment is done near the zenith where atmospheric

refraction is zero. One can also align near the object that you will be imaging,

although there will be drift elsewhere in the sky. It is impossible to get zero

drift everywhere, so I usually null out my drift at the zenith or perhaps near

the celestial equator so that the drift will be minimum over the most desireable

parts of the sky.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#32015 Apr 20, 2006

Group,

I have just received and installed a new AP900 for my Celestron 11". I have been very lucky with the CGE mount I had previously, no problems at all, and I am reading (very carefully) the initial alignment procedures for the AP.

For information, I have no polar alignment potential, as my Northern sky is obscured.

I am confused about some initial steps.

If I remember correctly, initial alignment requires I manually move the scope to a known star, align, then repeat in the same meridian. No problem. Two questions though:

Do I release the clutches when I do this?

If so, how does the mount know when it is level, and where it's stops are (so I don't crack the OTA against the pier)?

I am so used to the CGE and listening for the various relays at "switch position, that I am tentiative on this.

Thanks in advance

Carl







---------------

Celebrate Earth Day everyday! Discover 10 things you can do to help slow climate change. Yahoo! Earth Day



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#32310 May 29, 2006

Hi,



When working with larger detectors (CANON EOS, DMK 31BF02, 41BF02,

etc.) one will notice that Registax will come up with a sharp result

only within the alignment box one selected.



As a member of the development/test group of the new version of

Registax, I had an opportunity to check a new beta version

(3.0.1.83) that allows for multi-alignment. With this option you can

save hours of manual work and the result can be great.



If you follow this link, you'll see an animation that illustrates

the difference very well:

tinyurl.com/mwa5h

Very convincing, isn't it ?



Don't ask me when this version of Registax will be made public. Be

patient, it will be worthwile to wait for it!

;-)



Philippe







----------------------------

#32311 May 30, 2006

Philippe:



Looks very good. I look forward to trying it when it gets released it gets

sunny again. Now if you could just figure a way to get rid of the

interference fringes '-).



John



----------------------------

#32315 May 30, 2006

Hi Philippe -



I've enjoyed seeing your first images with your large Coronado filter.



For high resolution images of the sun and the moon, selecting multiple

alignment positions is necessary for a sharp field across the chip -

even with the 640x480 DMK 21BF04. This technique can also improve

images of the planets captured with a large image scale. Those of you

who use a Macintosh computer for astronomy might know that the

capture/processing program Astro IIDC 3.0 already supports multiple

region alignment.



You might also try using single frames or an average of a very small

number of frames to construct your image. Solar captures from these

cameras can be done with gain at the lowest setting and usually have a

good S/N ratio without stacking. In normal daytime turbulence, the

image will become nice and smooth when you stack 100 frames, but the

resolution will most likely be compromised.



best of luck with your solar imaging,



Alan









On May 30, 2006, at 2:49 AM, Philippe Vercoutter wrote:



> Hi,

>

> When working with larger detectors (CANON EOS, DMK 31BF02, 41BF02,

> etc.) one will notice that Registax will come up with a sharp result

> only within the alignment box one selected.

>

> As a member of the development/test group of the new version of

> Registax, I had an opportunity to check a new beta version

> (3.0.1.83) that allows for multi-alignment. With this option you can

> save hours of manual work and the result can be great.

>

> If you follow this link, you'll see an animation that illustrates

> the difference very well:

> tinyurl.com/mwa5h

> Very convincing, isn't it ?

>

> Don't ask me when this version of Registax will be made public. Be

> patient, it will be worthwile to wait for it!

> ;-)

>

> Philippe

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>



----------------------------

#34457 Jan 23, 2007

Thank You.......Thank You.......Thank You....Roland

This has always been a pain in my side (and I have been embarrassed

because I was having difficulties).

Perhaps there may even be others like me out there having the same

problems ?

I really look forward to seeing and using your simple Polar Alignment

Approach.

I do use the day-time sun approach with some success but not really all

that great.

The 2-star routine doesn't seem to converge. Perhaps I'm using the wrong

stars.

Unfortunately, I don't have a CCD camera to assist in the alignment process.

Sincerely, Richard Lapides in sunny - and now pretty clear California











chris1011@... wrote:

>In a message dated 1/23/2007 6:50:12 PM Central Standard Time,

>rigel@... writes:

>

>

>

>

>>I really find the 2 star polar alignment routine very

>>tricky to use.

>>

>>

>>

>

>The 2 star routine is just one of many tools that can be used. I like to use

>the method that is described as my Quickie Polar alignment routine (it's in

>the manual). It gets you very close to the pole and allows you to adjust each

>axis independently. You can also polar scope which can get you very close if it

>is properly aligned. After either of these, it takes maybe 5 - 10 minutes of

>drift alignment with the CCD camera to get dead nuts. When I use my methods, I

>can polar align in the daytime using only the sun as a reference (I start the

>mount with Reference Park1). It takes me less than 10 minutes to be up and

>running to where I can guide 95% of the time. I never use any of the polar

>alignment routines in the keypad. They can sometimes get you close, but if you pick

>the wrong star, they will not converge.

>

>When we get a chance, I will video my most simple and straight forward

>methods for polar alignment, and after you see them, you will hit your forehead when

>you see how ultra-simple it is.

>

>Rolando

>

>

>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>

>To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

>see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

>Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

>

>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#36261 Jun 17, 2007

Hi all,



I have a general question regarding my current setup:



Ap1200GTO, AP 160, C-14, Robin Casaday tandem mounting system,

Homeyer Cradle on the C-14.



I've just begun to refine this setup and have found that there are

slight alignment issues ie the two scopes don't exactly align on the

same target. When I calibrate the mount using the Ap 160, pointing is

superb. I shimmed the C-14 between the Homeyer Cradle and the

mounting plate and it improved the alignment somewhat. ( I figured

that the AP scope/rings/Casaday plate were probably pretty accurate

so I focused on the C-14/custom SS plate/Homeyer system). The

shimming consisted of "raising" the back of the cradle. I also found

that I had to slightly shim more one side of both the front and back

of the cradle. As I mentioned the alignment is improved but not

perfect. If I move the scopes so that one is above the other on one

side of the mount, I can move the tandem arrangement in pure dec very

slightly to bring the C-14 to target. So it appears the necessary

correction is to diverge the back of the OTA's very slightly by

shimming one side of the C-14.



My question is, how do I accomplish this? The C-14 fits very snugly

in the cradle and there doesn't appear to be any room to shim. I've

tried loosening the mounting bolts and applying pressure to one side

of the cradle and then re-tightening to no avail. My guess is that

the custom SS mounting plate, although very sturdy and cool looking,

has some wedge in it. I've read nothing but praise for the Homeyer

cradle as far as its accuracy and rigidy (which is why I purchased

it), so I don't think that is the source. Any suggestions would be

appreciated. If shimming won't work maybe I can try a different

mounting plate.



Thanks,

Mark Squicquero







----------------------------

#36290 Jun 19, 2007

Mark-



I don't know allot about Orthogonality Correction but I have been going

a little crazy lately trying to figure it out. I did just tonight come

across a file at Company Seven's Website about how to adjust for it.



Try this and see if it helps.





www.company7.com/library/techin/orthogonality.html







I am sure there are much wiser people here that can explain it better

than myself, hopefully they will give us a hand.





Randy



On Sun, 2007-06-17 at 16:21 +0000, Mark Squicquero wrote:

> Hi all,

>

> I have a general question regarding my current setup:

>

> Ap1200GTO, AP 160, C-14, Robin Casaday tandem mounting system,

> Homeyer Cradle on the C-14.

>

> I've just begun to refine this setup and have found that there are

> slight alignment issues ie the two scopes don't exactly align on the

> same target. When I calibrate the mount using the Ap 160, pointing is

> superb. I shimmed the C-14 between the Homeyer Cradle and the

> mounting plate and it improved the alignment somewhat. ( I figured

> that the AP scope/rings/Casaday plate were probably pretty accurate

> so I focused on the C-14/custom SS plate/Homeyer system). The

> shimming consisted of "raising" the back of the cradle. I also found

> that I had to slightly shim more one side of both the front and back

> of the cradle. As I mentioned the alignment is improved but not

> perfect. If I move the scopes so that one is above the other on one

> side of the mount, I can move the tandem arrangement in pure dec very

> slightly to bring the C-14 to target. So it appears the necessary

> correction is to diverge the back of the OTA's very slightly by

> shimming one side of the C-14.

>

> My question is, how do I accomplish this? The C-14 fits very snugly

> in the cradle and there doesn't appear to be any room to shim. I've

> tried loosening the mounting bolts and applying pressure to one side

> of the cradle and then re-tightening to no avail. My guess is that

> the custom SS mounting plate, although very sturdy and cool looking,

> has some wedge in it. I've read nothing but praise for the Homeyer

> cradle as far as its accuracy and rigidy (which is why I purchased

> it), so I don't think that is the source. Any suggestions would be

> appreciated. If shimming won't work maybe I can try a different

> mounting plate.

>

> Thanks,

> Mark Squicquero

>

>

>

>

>



----------------------------

#39661 Apr 16, 2008

I am in the process of fine tuning my polar alignment and have run

into a question that I would like to present to the ap-ug. According

to Rolando when fine tuning your azimuth by drift alignment the

observer should select a star close to the meridian that has a

declination of ~+20 degrees.

I have found from a Google search the target star should be anywhere

from ON the celestial equator (0* dec.) to as little as 10* or less.

I would like to present this question to the group as to which is

correct or does it really matter. That is the target star could be

from +20* to

close to 0* declination as long as it is close to the meridian.

Your educated response is very much appreciated.

best,

Phil Dombrowski

Glastonbury, CT



----------------------------

#39726 Apr 20, 2008

I am most interested in finding out the effects (if any) on the polar

alignment of deeply sunk piers in observatories, etc. that were near

the 5.2 mag quake this past week. I have often wondered about this

and would really appreciate the input of those with permanent piers

in/near the quake area.

thanks so very much!

Phil Dombrowski

Glastonbury, CT



----------------------------

#41758 Sep 20, 2008

--- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote: >

> In a message dated 9/19/2008 11:55:21 AM Central Daylight Time,

> ayiomami@... writes:

>

>

> > Now eagerly waiting for M13 ..... :-)

>



Rolando,

>

> It's up on the website in the Gallery section under Roland's test images.



As much as I like pursuing globulars - they are very dramatic objects - I have refrained so

far from chasing them and this is due to the fact that I cannot get good overall colour for

one reason or another. I am almost convinced it is due to the ST-2000XM and I will

certainly be revisiting them with the new gun (ST-10XME).



Case in point is my M13 which we can use for comparison (AP160 vs AP305): www.perseus.gr/Astro-DSO-NGC-6205.htm (please click on the image for a

higher resolution version).



One obvious difference between our results is the colour and where you managed to

capture the older members of the cluster nicely. Even though my result is LRGB with

correction for QE balance (G2V calibration using 16-Cygni) and atmospheric extinction, I

do not have any trace of red and in contrast to your result which is rich in colour and in

spite of the fact you have only 6.7 minutes total data (I had 120 minutes).



Anthony. >

>

>

>

>

>

> **************

> Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial

> challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and

> calculators.

> (www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>







----------------------------

#46747 Aug 20, 2009

This is a quick run regarding processing. It's a full frame image taken with AP 130GT, Canon XSi (Hutech 1b) and current release Televue flattner/ reducer. I'm fairly confident of my polar alignment (dec drift with 5mm crosshair ep AND verified with STV in Drive Slow mode at the same time). I see a little elongation in stars in all corners- especially when using 'Original' setting.



What's the opinion: was my alignment a bit off or is it the reducer/ flattner which is good to refractors to 800mm focal length-my refractor having 819mm so barely within recommended parameters. I'm close to having the money for the AP flattner OR a Tak FS60C for really wide field imaging.



groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug/photos/album/1333825023/pic/2003583400/view?picmode=large&mode=tn���=title&start=1&dir=asc



Thanks,

Adam



40 240 second lights, plus darks, flats and bias

IDAS LPS

Processed with PSCS4 and IP



----------------------------

#46756 Aug 21, 2009

In a message dated 8/20/2009 10:45:55 PM Central Daylight Time,

adam81224@... writes:



> What's the opinion: was my alignment a bit off or is it the reducer/

> flattner which is good to refractors to 800mm focal length-my refractor having

> 819mm so barely within recommended parameters. I'm close to having the

> money for the AP flattner OR a Tak FS60C for really wide field imaging.

>



Flatteners/Reducers tend to be compromises when it comes to producing

perfectly corrected fields, especially as you approach 35mm formats. To get round

stars in the corners requires a sophisticated design, and that also

requires knowing the exact lens design, which is something a 3rd party never can

know. We make flatteners for our scopes, and they are not made with

inexpensive designs, but they produce the results you want. Generic flatteners are ok

for casual work but will not produce the best results.



Rolando





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#46761 Aug 21, 2009

Thanks Roland, I should able to purchase one from you in next month or so.



Adam

--- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 8/20/2009 10:45:55 PM Central Daylight Time,

> adam81224@... writes:

>

>

> > What's the opinion: was my alignment a bit off or is it the reducer/

> > flattner which is good to refractors to 800mm focal length-my refractor having

> > 819mm so barely within recommended parameters. I'm close to having the

> > money for the AP flattner OR a Tak FS60C for really wide field imaging.

> >

>

> Flatteners/Reducers tend to be compromises when it comes to producing

> perfectly corrected fields, especially as you approach 35mm formats. To get round

> stars in the corners requires a sophisticated design, and that also

> requires knowing the exact lens design, which is something a 3rd party never can

> know. We make flatteners for our scopes, and they are not made with

> inexpensive designs, but they produce the results you want. Generic flatteners are ok

> for casual work but will not produce the best results.

>

> Rolando

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



----------------------------

#49941 Jun 1, 2010

I am trying to recall this from memory, so I could be completely wrong but I think that hitting the RA/DEC/REV to go back should be replaced by pressing the MENU button. Maybe this is version level dependent as well in that 4.12 might do things one way and V4.17 might do it the other. For now, just back out using the MENU button and see if you can follow the rest of the procedure.



--- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, "Bernard" bgmiller011@...> wrote:

>

> Hi,

>

> I tried for two hours last night and could not get the Revised GTO Quick Star Drift Method for polar alignment to work. Here are the steps I took.

>

> 1. Polar aligned the scope with the polar alignment scope.

> 2. Turned on the mount and selected my location (1) and then pressed GoTo.

> 3. Selected "Star Sync" at the next menu.

> 4. Moved the scope to point to Pollux. Used the direction keys to center it.

> 5. Selected Pollux on the star menu and pressed GoTo. Scope did not move.

> 6. I then started the Revised GTO Quick Star Drift alignment procedure. I slewed to Mizar and centered it in the eyepiece using the direction keys.

> 7. I then adjusted my finder crosshairs to align with the NS and EW movement when using the direction keys. I recentered Mizar when I was done.

> 8. I pressed RA/DEV/REV button and then pressed "9" to Re-calibrate.

> 9. While in the RA/DEC/REV menu I pressed the arrow key to select 1E since Mizar was in the east.

> 10. I then pressed RA/DEC/REV to get back to the Objects menu, but nothing happened. No matter how many times I pressed the RA/DEC/REV key, nothing happened.

> 11. I then pressed the menu button, which got me back to the star menu. I selected Mizar again and pressed GoTo and nothing happened.

>

> I turned off the mount and redid the procedure three times, but every time when I got to step 10 and 11, nothing happened. The scope would not re-slew to Mizar like it is suppose to according to the alignement instructions. Any help or pointers would be appreciated.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Bernard

>







----------------------------

#49942 Jun 1, 2010

Hi,



Thanks. I did try the menu button when the RA/DEC/REV button did not work. However, this di not work either. I was able to get to the star menu, but whe I selected the star and pressed goto, nothing happened.



Thanks,



Bernard



--- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, "observe_m13" JunkMailGoesHere@...> wrote:

>

> I am trying to recall this from memory, so I could be completely wrong but I think that hitting the RA/DEC/REV to go back should be replaced by pressing the MENU button. Maybe this is version level dependent as well in that 4.12 might do things one way and V4.17 might do it the other. For now, just back out using the MENU button and see if you can follow the rest of the procedure.

>

>

> --- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, "Bernard" bgmiller011@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > I tried for two hours last night and could not get the Revised GTO Quick Star Drift Method for polar alignment to work. Here are the steps I took.

> >

> > 1. Polar aligned the scope with the polar alignment scope.

> > 2. Turned on the mount and selected my location (1) and then pressed GoTo.

> > 3. Selected "Star Sync" at the next menu.

> > 4. Moved the scope to point to Pollux. Used the direction keys to center it.

> > 5. Selected Pollux on the star menu and pressed GoTo. Scope did not move.

> > 6. I then started the Revised GTO Quick Star Drift alignment procedure. I slewed to Mizar and centered it in the eyepiece using the direction keys.

> > 7. I then adjusted my finder crosshairs to align with the NS and EW movement when using the direction keys. I recentered Mizar when I was done.

> > 8. I pressed RA/DEV/REV button and then pressed "9" to Re-calibrate.

> > 9. While in the RA/DEC/REV menu I pressed the arrow key to select 1E since Mizar was in the east.

> > 10. I then pressed RA/DEC/REV to get back to the Objects menu, but nothing happened. No matter how many times I pressed the RA/DEC/REV key, nothing happened.

> > 11. I then pressed the menu button, which got me back to the star menu. I selected Mizar again and pressed GoTo and nothing happened.

> >

> > I turned off the mount and redid the procedure three times, but every time when I got to step 10 and 11, nothing happened. The scope would not re-slew to Mizar like it is suppose to according to the alignement instructions. Any help or pointers would be appreciated.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Bernard

> >

>



----------------------------

#49944 Jun 1, 2010

Was Mizar within 1 hr of the meridian? If it was not, nothing would happen as you would be telling the mount to goto where it is already pointing.

--- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, "Bernard" bgmiller011@...> wrote:

>

> Hi,

>

> Thanks. I did try the menu button when the RA/DEC/REV button did not work. However, this di not work either. I was able to get to the star menu, but whe I selected the star and pressed goto, nothing happened.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Bernard

>

>

> --- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, "observe_m13" JunkMailGoesHere@> wrote:

> >

> > I am trying to recall this from memory, so I could be completely wrong but I think that hitting the RA/DEC/REV to go back should be replaced by pressing the MENU button. Maybe this is version level dependent as well in that 4.12 might do things one way and V4.17 might do it the other. For now, just back out using the MENU button and see if you can follow the rest of the procedure.

> >

> >

> > --- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, "Bernard" bgmiller011@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi,

> > >

> > > I tried for two hours last night and could not get the Revised GTO Quick Star Drift Method for polar alignment to work. Here are the steps I took.

> > >

> > > 1. Polar aligned the scope with the polar alignment scope.

> > > 2. Turned on the mount and selected my location (1) and then pressed GoTo.

> > > 3. Selected "Star Sync" at the next menu.

> > > 4. Moved the scope to point to Pollux. Used the direction keys to center it.

> > > 5. Selected Pollux on the star menu and pressed GoTo. Scope did not move.

> > > 6. I then started the Revised GTO Quick Star Drift alignment procedure. I slewed to Mizar and centered it in the eyepiece using the direction keys.

> > > 7. I then adjusted my finder crosshairs to align with the NS and EW movement when using the direction keys. I recentered Mizar when I was done.

> > > 8. I pressed RA/DEV/REV button and then pressed "9" to Re-calibrate.

> > > 9. While in the RA/DEC/REV menu I pressed the arrow key to select 1E since Mizar was in the east.

> > > 10. I then pressed RA/DEC/REV to get back to the Objects menu, but nothing happened. No matter how many times I pressed the RA/DEC/REV key, nothing happened.

> > > 11. I then pressed the menu button, which got me back to the star menu. I selected Mizar again and pressed GoTo and nothing happened.

> > >

> > > I turned off the mount and redid the procedure three times, but every time when I got to step 10 and 11, nothing happened. The scope would not re-slew to Mizar like it is suppose to according to the alignement instructions. Any help or pointers would be appreciated.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > > Bernard

> > >

> >

>







----------------------------

#49945 Jun 1, 2010

In a message dated 6/1/2010 12:56:06 AM Central Daylight Time,

bgmiller011@... writes:



> 10. I then pressed RA/DEC/REV to get back to the Objects menu, but

> nothing happened. No matter how many times I pressed the RA/DEC/REV key, nothing

> happened.

>



Pressing RA/DEC/REV button takes you to the RA/DEC/REV screen, so no matter

how many times you press it, you will stay at that screen. Press Menu to

exit. If you look at the bottom line in the screen it tells you: "Press Menu

to Exit"



Rolando





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#49948 Jun 1, 2010

--- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote: >

> In a message dated 6/1/2010 12:56:06 AM Central Daylight Time,

> bgmiller011@... writes:

>

>

> > 10. I then pressed RA/DEC/REV to get back to the Objects menu, but

> > nothing happened. No matter how many times I pressed the RA/DEC/REV key, nothing

> > happened.

> >

>

> Pressing RA/DEC/REV button takes you to the RA/DEC/REV screen, so no matter

> how many times you press it, you will stay at that screen. Press Menu to

> exit. If you look at the bottom line in the screen it tells you: "Press Menu

> to Exit"

>

> Rolando

>



This is definitely a problem with the instructions in the older v4.17 addendum pdf documenting the procedure which I have. They explicitly reference pressing the RA/DEC/REV button to exit at least twice. I just checked to see if there is a newer version on the AP website and sure enough there is. It has corrected the keystroke sequence to be used to include the MENU> button to exit at the appropriate points.



For anyone else following this, go here:



www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/keypad_v417.pdf



to get the newest documentation of the procedure.



----------------------------

#49950 Jun 1, 2010

In a message dated 6/1/2010 3:07:49 PM Central Daylight Time,

JunkMailGoesHere@... writes:



> This is definitely a problem with the instructions in the older v4.17

> addendum pdf documenting the procedure which I have. They explicitly reference

> pressing the RA/DEC/REV button to exit at least twice. I just checked to

> see if there is a newer version on the AP website and sure enough there is.

> It has corrected the keystroke sequence to be used to include the MENU>

> button to exit at the appropriate points.

>



Yes, way back in very old versions we have had a different exit, but right

on the screen it always tells you what to do. The newer versions of the

keypad software are arranged slightly different from the original ones.



Rolando





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#49956 Jun 1, 2010

Hi everybody!







We recently began converting our manuals from Word docs to In Design

documents. Somehow, an older bit of text for the Revised GTO Quick Star

Drift Method got resurrected into the new In Design file. The mistake

in my instructions had been caught and corrected early last year, but

reappeared when we added to the v.4.17 info and did the conversion to In

Design. (I must have gone to an earlier Word file.) The website now

has the corrected text, and I repeat it for steps 3 and 4 below. I'm

sorry if this threw any one a curve ball!







3. In the RA/DEC/REV menu look at the Meridian Delay selection. If the

star is in the west, advance the meridian by 1 hour so that the display

shows Meridian1W>. Use the PREV and NEXT> buttons to advance the hour

and also change the direction to either W or E (pressing PREV multiple

times will display the hours in the east). If the star is in the east,

enter 1E>. (You can verify if the star is in the east by comparing its

RA value to the current "z" or LST value. A larger RA value indicates

it is in the east; a smaller RA value indicates it is in the west.)

Press MENU a couple times to return all the way back to the Objects

Menu. (Don't stop at your star. Go all the way to the Objects Menu.)







4. Choose the same star again, beginning from the Objects Menu, and

press GOTO. Now the telescope will swap sides. The star will

(hopefully) appear again in the finderscope eyepiece, but may be

displaced both in RA and DEC on the crosshairs.







Mag. 7 skies!







Howard Hedlund



Astro-Physics, Inc.



815-282-1513



---------------



From: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-ug@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

Bernard

Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 12:53 AM

To: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [ap-ug] Propblem with polar alignment











Hi,



I tried for two hours last night and could not get the Revised GTO Quick

Star Drift Method for polar alignment to work. Here are the steps I

took.



1. Polar aligned the scope with the polar alignment scope.

2. Turned on the mount and selected my location (1) and then pressed

GoTo.

3. Selected "Star Sync" at the next menu.

4. Moved the scope to point to Pollux. Used the direction keys to center

it.

5. Selected Pollux on the star menu and pressed GoTo. Scope did not

move.

6. I then started the Revised GTO Quick Star Drift alignment procedure.

I slewed to Mizar and centered it in the eyepiece using the direction

keys.

7. I then adjusted my finder crosshairs to align with the NS and EW

movement when using the direction keys. I recentered Mizar when I was

done.

8. I pressed RA/DEV/REV button and then pressed "9" to Re-calibrate.

9. While in the RA/DEC/REV menu I pressed the arrow key to select 1E

since Mizar was in the east.

10. I then pressed RA/DEC/REV to get back to the Objects menu, but

nothing happened. No matter how many times I pressed the RA/DEC/REV key,

nothing happened.

11. I then pressed the menu button, which got me back to the star menu.

I selected Mizar again and pressed GoTo and nothing happened.



I turned off the mount and redid the procedure three times, but every

time when I got to step 10 and 11, nothing happened. The scope would not

re-slew to Mizar like it is suppose to according to the alignement

instructions. Any help or pointers would be appreciated.



Thanks,



Bernard











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#61370 Sep 3, 2012

As Marj mentioned she has asked me to add a new utility to the ASCOM driver for the new Polar Alignment Scope that will

be released soon. I have finished a beta version of the utility and included it with version v5.05.06 of the driver. I

think the user interface is finished except for maybe giving it a better icon but it still needs to be qualified by

Roland that the position for Polaris and Sigma Octantis are correct (their positions are reflected because of the

right-angle mirror in the PAS).



You can access it (ApPAS) through the menu, the system tray icon, or via a button on the driver's second page. If you

run it through the menu you don't need to be connected to the scope.



ApPAS is sizeable so please try that as well as checking that it runs OK on your system. It can be configured to use

your mount's longitude/latitude if you are connected to the driver or manually configured.



Anyway I would appreciate feedback on the User Interface and also reports if you see any issues. Thanks!



www.gralak.com/apdriver/AstroPhysics_V2_Setup_5.05.06.exe



-Ray Gralak

Author of Astro-Physics Command Center (APCC)

Author of PEMPro: www.ccdware.com

Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: www.gralak.com/apdriver

Author of PulseGuide: www.pulseguide.com

Author of Sigma: www.gralak.com/sigma



----------------------------

#61689 Sep 22, 2012

Hello,



Just joined, and I am still using one of the dinosaurs - we have a "MODEL 1200 GERMAN EQUATORIAL WITH

DUAL AXIS QUARTZ DRIVE . BLACK, METRIC" installed at our observatory (part a 501c-3 non-profit educational farm).



We are trying to polar align the scope using a polar alignment scope which I believe was purchased specifically for this old mount. I think its called ""Polar Alignment Telescope with 1200 Reticle".



I cannot find the spec sheets for this polar alignment scope in the 'vintage products' section under Technical Support.



We were wondering - is this alignment scope out of date? (Have the stars changed so that the reticle is no longer accurate?)



Where can we find the instructions for the polar alignment scope?



This polar alignment scope has a trapezoidal pattern off to the side, and just below the crosshairs are some gradations and the numbers 4.0 and 6.0 on either side of a small circle.



Is there anyone out there who can help? I am trying to avoid calling Wally to bother him with what should be a simple procedure.



Thanks so much,



Chris Carpenter

Spoutwood Farm Observatory

www.spoutwood.org



----------------------------

#61690 Sep 22, 2012

Hello Chris,



I believe you have the PASILL (AKA PASILL1) scope. As I can't post a link which will directly take you to the instruction manual, please go back to the Tech page, drill down under the mounts. You may have to click on the link for "Out of Production" equipment. BTW, those are Greek Characters (Beta and Delta) next to the tiny circles.



FWIW. I also have this PASILL model. it will get you very close to perfect alignment, but do plan on a bit of drift alignment to make it perfect.



Tom

Tucson, AZ

--- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, "crowrobot1970" golfprocarp@...> wrote:

>

> Hello,

>

> Just joined, and I am still using one of the dinosaurs - we have a "MODEL 1200 GERMAN EQUATORIAL WITH

> DUAL AXIS QUARTZ DRIVE . BLACK, METRIC" installed at our observatory (part a 501c-3 non-profit educational farm).

>

> We are trying to polar align the scope using a polar alignment scope which I believe was purchased specifically for this old mount. I think its called ""Polar Alignment Telescope with 1200 Reticle".

>

> I cannot find the spec sheets for this polar alignment scope in the 'vintage products' section under Technical Support.

>

> We were wondering - is this alignment scope out of date? (Have the stars changed so that the reticle is no longer accurate?)

>

> Where can we find the instructions for the polar alignment scope?

>

> This polar alignment scope has a trapezoidal pattern off to the side, and just below the crosshairs are some gradations and the numbers 4.0 and 6.0 on either side of a small circle.

>

> Is there anyone out there who can help? I am trying to avoid calling Wally to bother him with what should be a simple procedure.

>

> Thanks so much,

>

> Chris Carpenter

> Spoutwood Farm Observatory

> www.spoutwood.org

>



----------------------------

#62388 Oct 31, 2012

The price of the Right-Angle Polar Alignment Scopes is $390 and we are now accepting orders. The price of the adapters for the Mach1GTO, 900GTO and 1200GTO is $80 and includes a cap for the opening in the adapter when you remove the polar scope.



Check out the information on the Polar Scope and various adapters on this page:

www.astro-physics.com/products/accessories/mounting_acc/mounting_acc.htm



Estimated shipment is late December.



Clear Skies!



Marj Christen

Vice President

Astro-Physics, Inc

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

Fax: 815-282-9847

www.astro-physics.com

Please include this e-mail with your response.









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#63281 Dec 30, 2012

I finally had a chance to drift align (at 130X) my RAPAS on my AP1200 over the past couple of nights. It is a very sweet solution and rather fun watching polaris chase clockwise around the reticule. I had to do very little tweaking as the RAPAS was already well aligned with my mount out of the box.I was able to test expose for 3 minutes unguided with a DSLR and get roundish stars but could not go over that my first time out. Probably a little more tweaking to do but I suspect I am already near the margins of a purely visual alignment.





One thing I noted that no one has yet commented on, is that the weight of different telescopes causes a slight deflection of the position of Polaris in the reticule. That is when I first drift aligned through a AP130 everything looked fine. When I lifted the scope, rings, and mounting plate off the mount, Polaris rose up slightly to just outside the reticule. The mount was in Park position 2 with the weight of the telescope pulling down in the direction of the rear of the AP1200. A heaver telescope moved Polaris back down into the reticule again. I think the mount is tight, but there seems a slight flex caused by different loadings which is visible in the RAPAS. It would seem that the key is to be consistent with one telescope and to align with it already mounted.





Chris

















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#63282 Dec 30, 2012

Very good point Chris . Thanks

Suresh



Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 31, 2012, at 9:35 AM, cford81@... wrote:



> I finally had a chance to drift align (at 130X) my RAPAS on my AP1200 over the past couple of nights. It is a very sweet solution and rather fun watching polaris chase clockwise around the reticule. I had to do very little tweaking as the RAPAS was already well aligned with my mount out of the box.I was able to test expose for 3 minutes unguided with a DSLR and get roundish stars but could not go over that my first time out. Probably a little more tweaking to do but I suspect I am already near the margins of a purely visual alignment.

>

> One thing I noted that no one has yet commented on, is that the weight of different telescopes causes a slight deflection of the position of Polaris in the reticule. That is when I first drift aligned through a AP130 everything looked fine. When I lifted the scope, rings, and mounting plate off the mount, Polaris rose up slightly to just outside the reticule. The mount was in Park position 2 with the weight of the telescope pulling down in the direction of the rear of the AP1200. A heaver telescope moved Polaris back down into the reticule again. I think the mount is tight, but there seems a slight flex caused by different loadings which is visible in the RAPAS. It would seem that the key is to be consistent with one telescope and to align with it already mounted.

>

> Chris

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#64022 Mar 5, 2013

Hi All



I have an AP 800 mount that I purchased used. It's mounted permanently in my observatory on a pier. The mount has been leveled and balanced.



I've been trying to do a drift alignment on the mount over several nights.



I've managed to get no drift in the north/south direction both toward the meridian and the east ecliptic.



The problem I'm encountering is that I keep getting a drift to the east while performing the drift alignment. This happens when I'm on either side of the meridian. The star moves out of the center square in the eyepiece reticle within a 5 to 10 minute period always to the east.



Does anyone have any suggestions what might be causing this easterly drift?



Thanks

Glen



----------------------------

#64031 Mar 6, 2013

Glen, "...any suggestions what might be causing this easterly drift?",

sounds like RA is tracking slow. PE as expected, would exhibit a rocking

motion, the star would travel East a little distance then return to the

West. Since the star doesn't return suggests the tracking speed is slow.

Have you checked the power to your AP800, is it sufficient?



If power is correct could the RA gears possibly be too tight. Check

documentation, or with A-P, for proper setting/testing of gear spacings.

G'Luck...joe :)





"May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars"

Joe Mize www.cav-sfo.com

Chiefland Astronomy Village (CAV), Fla

StarFields Observatory, (SFO).

----- Original Message -----

From: "backtomars2003" longeyesone@...>

To: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 1:51 PM

Subject: [ap-ug] AP 800 drift alignment problem





> Hi All

>

> I have an AP 800 mount that I purchased used. It's mounted permanently in

> my observatory on a pier. The mount has been leveled and balanced.

>

> I've been trying to do a drift alignment on the mount over several nights.

>

> I've managed to get no drift in the north/south direction both toward the

> meridian and the east ecliptic.

>

> The problem I'm encountering is that I keep getting a drift to the east

> while performing the drift alignment. This happens when I'm on either side

> of the meridian. The star moves out of the center square in the eyepiece

> reticle within a 5 to 10 minute period always to the east.

>

> Does anyone have any suggestions what might be causing this easterly

> drift?

>

> Thanks

> Glen

>

>

>

>

---------------

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ugYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>







----------------------------

#64032 Mar 6, 2013

A lot of times drift in RA is caused by telescope optics flexure. This is especially true of SCTs like the C11 and C14, and the various Meade models. The optics slowly move due to a gravity, and it looks like the mount is not tracking properly, but really it is the optics that are moving inside the tube. This is a well known anomaly that all us mount manufacturers know about and we always get questions from users of SCTs why the "mount" is not tracking.



Also, the tracking speed of a mount is not influenced by power. It either tracks or it does not, there is no in between. We can certainly check the tracking rate here at the shop. We don't need the whole mount, just the controller. Call AP and get an RA number if you wish to have it checked out.



Rolando





-----Original Message-----

From: JoeMize jmize@...>

To: ap-ug ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wed, Mar 6, 2013 10:12 am

Subject: Re: [ap-ug] AP 800 drift alignment problem





Glen, "...any suggestions what might be causing this easterly drift?",

sounds like RA is tracking slow. PE as expected, would exhibit a rocking

motion, the star would travel East a little distance then return to the

West. Since the star doesn't return suggests the tracking speed is slow.

Have you checked the power to your AP800, is it sufficient?



If power is correct could the RA gears possibly be too tight. Check

documentation, or with A-P, for proper setting/testing of gear spacings.

G'Luck...joe :)





"May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars"

Joe Mize www.cav-sfo.com

Chiefland Astronomy Village (CAV), Fla

StarFields Observatory, (SFO).

----- Original Message -----

From: "backtomars2003" longeyesone@...>

To: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 1:51 PM

Subject: [ap-ug] AP 800 drift alignment problem





> Hi All

>

> I have an AP 800 mount that I purchased used. It's mounted permanently in

> my observatory on a pier. The mount has been leveled and balanced.

>

> I've been trying to do a drift alignment on the mount over several nights.

>

> I've managed to get no drift in the north/south direction both toward the

> meridian and the east ecliptic.

>

> The problem I'm encountering is that I keep getting a drift to the east

> while performing the drift alignment. This happens when I'm on either side

> of the meridian. The star moves out of the center square in the eyepiece

> reticle within a 5 to 10 minute period always to the east.

>

> Does anyone have any suggestions what might be causing this easterly

> drift?

>

> Thanks

> Glen

>

>

>

>

---------------

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ugYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>









---------------





To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ugYahoo! Groups Links















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#64061 Mar 6, 2013

Hi all,

Thank you all for your input I will be trying some things here and if need be I will have the controller checked.

Thanks again,

Glen

--- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

>

>

>

> A lot of times drift in RA is caused by telescope optics flexure. This is especially true of SCTs like the C11 and C14, and the various Meade models. The optics slowly move due to a gravity, and it looks like the mount is not tracking properly, but really it is the optics that are moving inside the tube. This is a well known anomaly that all us mount manufacturers know about and we always get questions from users of SCTs why the "mount" is not tracking.

>

> Also, the tracking speed of a mount is not influenced by power. It either tracks or it does not, there is no in between. We can certainly check the tracking rate here at the shop. We don't need the whole mount, just the controller. Call AP and get an RA number if you wish to have it checked out.

>

> Rolando

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: JoeMize jmize@...>

> To: ap-ug ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Wed, Mar 6, 2013 10:12 am

> Subject: Re: [ap-ug] AP 800 drift alignment problem

>

>

> Glen, "...any suggestions what might be causing this easterly drift?",

> sounds like RA is tracking slow. PE as expected, would exhibit a rocking

> motion, the star would travel East a little distance then return to the

> West. Since the star doesn't return suggests the tracking speed is slow.

> Have you checked the power to your AP800, is it sufficient?

>

> If power is correct could the RA gears possibly be too tight. Check

> documentation, or with A-P, for proper setting/testing of gear spacings.

> G'Luck...joe :)

>

>

> "May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars"

> Joe Mize www.cav-sfo.com

> Chiefland Astronomy Village (CAV), Fla

> StarFields Observatory, (SFO).

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "backtomars2003" longeyesone@...>

> To: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 1:51 PM

> Subject: [ap-ug] AP 800 drift alignment problem

>

>

> > Hi All

> >

> > I have an AP 800 mount that I purchased used. It's mounted permanently in

> > my observatory on a pier. The mount has been leveled and balanced.

> >

> > I've been trying to do a drift alignment on the mount over several nights.

> >

> > I've managed to get no drift in the north/south direction both toward the

> > meridian and the east ecliptic.

> >

> > The problem I'm encountering is that I keep getting a drift to the east

> > while performing the drift alignment. This happens when I'm on either side

> > of the meridian. The star moves out of the center square in the eyepiece

> > reticle within a 5 to 10 minute period always to the east.

> >

> > Does anyone have any suggestions what might be causing this easterly

> > drift?

> >

> > Thanks

> > Glen

> >

> >

> >

> >

---------------

> >

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ugYahoo! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

---------------

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ugYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>







----------------------------

#64063 Mar 6, 2013

So, what kinda scope do you have on that mount?



Rolando





-----Original Message-----

From: backtomars2003 longeyesone@...>

To: ap-ug ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wed, Mar 6, 2013 4:51 pm

Subject: [ap-ug] Re: AP 800 drift alignment problem





Hi all,

Thank you all for your input I will be trying some things here and if need be I

will have the controller checked.

Thanks again,

Glen

--- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

>

>

>

> A lot of times drift in RA is caused by telescope optics flexure. This is

especially true of SCTs like the C11 and C14, and the various Meade models. The

optics slowly move due to a gravity, and it looks like the mount is not tracking

properly, but really it is the optics that are moving inside the tube. This is a

well known anomaly that all us mount manufacturers know about and we always get

questions from users of SCTs why the "mount" is not tracking.

>

> Also, the tracking speed of a mount is not influenced by power. It either

tracks or it does not, there is no in between. We can certainly check the

tracking rate here at the shop. We don't need the whole mount, just the

controller. Call AP and get an RA number if you wish to have it checked out.

>

> Rolando

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: JoeMize jmize@...>

> To: ap-ug ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Wed, Mar 6, 2013 10:12 am

> Subject: Re: [ap-ug] AP 800 drift alignment problem

>

>

> Glen, "...any suggestions what might be causing this easterly drift?",

> sounds like RA is tracking slow. PE as expected, would exhibit a rocking

> motion, the star would travel East a little distance then return to the

> West. Since the star doesn't return suggests the tracking speed is slow.

> Have you checked the power to your AP800, is it sufficient?

>

> If power is correct could the RA gears possibly be too tight. Check

> documentation, or with A-P, for proper setting/testing of gear spacings.

> G'Luck...joe :)

>

>

> "May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars"

> Joe Mize www.cav-sfo.com

> Chiefland Astronomy Village (CAV), Fla

> StarFields Observatory, (SFO).

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "backtomars2003" longeyesone@...>

> To: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 1:51 PM

> Subject: [ap-ug] AP 800 drift alignment problem

>

>

> > Hi All

> >

> > I have an AP 800 mount that I purchased used. It's mounted permanently in

> > my observatory on a pier. The mount has been leveled and balanced.

> >

> > I've been trying to do a drift alignment on the mount over several nights.

> >

> > I've managed to get no drift in the north/south direction both toward the

> > meridian and the east ecliptic.

> >

> > The problem I'm encountering is that I keep getting a drift to the east

> > while performing the drift alignment. This happens when I'm on either side

> > of the meridian. The star moves out of the center square in the eyepiece

> > reticle within a 5 to 10 minute period always to the east.

> >

> > Does anyone have any suggestions what might be causing this easterly

> > drift?

> >

> > Thanks

> > Glen

> >

> >

> >

> >

---------------

> >

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ugYahoo! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

---------------

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ugYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>









---------------





To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ugYahoo! Groups Links















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#64086 Mar 7, 2013

Hi again,

I am planning on putting an astrograph on it, right now I just have a 5"

SCT ota on the mount to align it. How much weight do you think it will

carry?

Godspeed,

Glen

On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:47 PM, chris1011@...> wrote:



> **

>

>

>

> So, what kinda scope do you have on that mount?

>

> Rolando

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: backtomars2003 longeyesone@...>

> To: ap-ug ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Wed, Mar 6, 2013 4:51 pm

> Subject: [ap-ug] Re: AP 800 drift alignment problem

>

> Hi all,

> Thank you all for your input I will be trying some things here and if need

> be I

> will have the controller checked.

> Thanks again,

> Glen

>

> --- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > A lot of times drift in RA is caused by telescope optics flexure. This

> is

> especially true of SCTs like the C11 and C14, and the various Meade

> models. The

> optics slowly move due to a gravity, and it looks like the mount is not

> tracking

> properly, but really it is the optics that are moving inside the tube.

> This is a

> well known anomaly that all us mount manufacturers know about and we

> always get

> questions from users of SCTs why the "mount" is not tracking.

> >

> > Also, the tracking speed of a mount is not influenced by power. It

> either

> tracks or it does not, there is no in between. We can certainly check the

> tracking rate here at the shop. We don't need the whole mount, just the

> controller. Call AP and get an RA number if you wish to have it checked

> out.

> >

> > Rolando

> >

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: JoeMize

> > To: ap-ug ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

> > Sent: Wed, Mar 6, 2013 10:12 am

> > Subject: Re: [ap-ug] AP 800 drift alignment problem

> >

> >

> > Glen, "...any suggestions what might be causing this easterly drift?",

> > sounds like RA is tracking slow. PE as expected, would exhibit a rocking

> > motion, the star would travel East a little distance then return to the

> > West. Since the star doesn't return suggests the tracking speed is slow.

> > Have you checked the power to your AP800, is it sufficient?

> >

> > If power is correct could the RA gears possibly be too tight. Check

> > documentation, or with A-P, for proper setting/testing of gear spacings.

> > G'Luck...joe :)

> >

> >

> > "May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars"

> > Joe Mize www.cav-sfo.com

> > Chiefland Astronomy Village (CAV), Fla

> > StarFields Observatory, (SFO).

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: "backtomars2003"

> > To: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

> > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 1:51 PM

> > Subject: [ap-ug] AP 800 drift alignment problem

> >

> >

> > > Hi All

> > >

> > > I have an AP 800 mount that I purchased used. It's mounted permanently

> in

> > > my observatory on a pier. The mount has been leveled and balanced.

> > >

> > > I've been trying to do a drift alignment on the mount over several

> nights.

> > >

> > > I've managed to get no drift in the north/south direction both toward

> the

> > > meridian and the east ecliptic.

> > >

> > > The problem I'm encountering is that I keep getting a drift to the

> east

> > > while performing the drift alignment. This happens when I'm on either

> side

> > > of the meridian. The star moves out of the center square in the

> eyepiece

> > > reticle within a 5 to 10 minute period always to the east.

> > >

> > > Does anyone have any suggestions what might be causing this easterly

> > > drift?

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Glen

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

---------------

> > >

> > >

> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> > > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ugYahoo! Groups Links

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

---------------

> >

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ugYahoo! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

---------------

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ugYahoo! Groups Links

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>







--

Our new e-mail address is longeyesone@...





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#64097 Mar 7, 2013

It should be able to carry a lot of weight, up to a 12" Cassegrain.

Again, if you want to have us check out the tracking speed of the controller, call AP - ask for Christine.



Rolando





-----Original Message-----

From: Glen Sanner longeyesone@...>

To: ap-ug ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thu, Mar 7, 2013 9:50 am

Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Re: AP 800 drift alignment problem





Hi again,

I am planning on putting an astrograph on it, right now I just have a 5"

SCT ota on the mount to align it. How much weight do you think it will

carry?

Godspeed,

Glen

On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:47 PM, chris1011@...> wrote:



> **

>

>

>

> So, what kinda scope do you have on that mount?

>

> Rolando

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: backtomars2003 longeyesone@...>

> To: ap-ug ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Wed, Mar 6, 2013 4:51 pm

> Subject: [ap-ug] Re: AP 800 drift alignment problem

>

> Hi all,

> Thank you all for your input I will be trying some things here and if need

> be I

> will have the controller checked.

> Thanks again,

> Glen

>

> --- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > A lot of times drift in RA is caused by telescope optics flexure. This

> is

> especially true of SCTs like the C11 and C14, and the various Meade

> models. The

> optics slowly move due to a gravity, and it looks like the mount is not

> tracking

> properly, but really it is the optics that are moving inside the tube.

> This is a

> well known anomaly that all us mount manufacturers know about and we

> always get

> questions from users of SCTs why the "mount" is not tracking.

> >

> > Also, the tracking speed of a mount is not influenced by power. It

> either

> tracks or it does not, there is no in between. We can certainly check the

> tracking rate here at the shop. We don't need the whole mount, just the

> controller. Call AP and get an RA number if you wish to have it checked

> out.

> >

> > Rolando

> >

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: JoeMize

> > To: ap-ug ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

> > Sent: Wed, Mar 6, 2013 10:12 am

> > Subject: Re: [ap-ug] AP 800 drift alignment problem

> >

> >

> > Glen, "...any suggestions what might be causing this easterly drift?",

> > sounds like RA is tracking slow. PE as expected, would exhibit a rocking

> > motion, the star would travel East a little distance then return to the

> > West. Since the star doesn't return suggests the tracking speed is slow.

> > Have you checked the power to your AP800, is it sufficient?

> >

> > If power is correct could the RA gears possibly be too tight. Check

> > documentation, or with A-P, for proper setting/testing of gear spacings.

> > G'Luck...joe :)

> >

> >

> > "May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars"

> > Joe Mize www.cav-sfo.com

> > Chiefland Astronomy Village (CAV), Fla

> > StarFields Observatory, (SFO).

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: "backtomars2003"

> > To: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

> > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 1:51 PM

> > Subject: [ap-ug] AP 800 drift alignment problem

> >

> >

> > > Hi All

> > >

> > > I have an AP 800 mount that I purchased used. It's mounted permanently

> in

> > > my observatory on a pier. The mount has been leveled and balanced.

> > >

> > > I've been trying to do a drift alignment on the mount over several

> nights.

> > >

> > > I've managed to get no drift in the north/south direction both toward

> the

> > > meridian and the east ecliptic.

> > >

> > > The problem I'm encountering is that I keep getting a drift to the

> east

> > > while performing the drift alignment. This happens when I'm on either

> side

> > > of the meridian. The star moves out of the center square in the

> eyepiece

> > > reticle within a 5 to 10 minute period always to the east.

> > >

> > > Does anyone have any suggestions what might be causing this easterly

> > > drift?

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Glen

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

---------------

> > >

> > >

> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> > > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ugYahoo! Groups Links

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

---------------

> >

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ugYahoo! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

---------------

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ugYahoo! Groups Links

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>







--

Our new e-mail address is longeyesone@...





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







---------------





To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ugYahoo! Groups Links















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#64099 Mar 7, 2013

Glen,

.

I might sound like a broken record to others within this group, but as

a testiment to capcities for AP mounts, I've imaged with over 200 lbs

on a 1200GTO mount.. You will need to have near perfect balance

for imaging with the 800 mount, but.I'd be willing to bet that you could

image with a 70 lb load on that mount.. The ratings are, I believe, little

more than half of what the mounts will actually carry when properly set

up and balanced.

.

Good luck!

.

Mark

Mark









-----Original Message-----

From: chris1011 chris1011@...>

To: ap-ug ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:02 pm

Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Re: AP 800 drift alignment problem



.

It should be able to carry a lot of weight, up to a 12" Cassegrain.

Again, if you want to have us check out the tracking speed of the controller, call AP - ask for Christine.



Rolando



-----Original Message-----

From: Glen Sanner longeyesone@...>

To: ap-ug ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thu, Mar 7, 2013 9:50 am

Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Re: AP 800 drift alignment problem



Hi again,

I am planning on putting an astrograph on it, right now I just have a 5"

SCT ota on the mount to align it. How much weight do you think it will

carry?

Godspeed,

Glen

On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:47 PM, chris1011@...> wrote:



> **

>

>

>

> So, what kinda scope do you have on that mount?

>

> Rolando

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: backtomars2003 longeyesone@...>

> To: ap-ug ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Wed, Mar 6, 2013 4:51 pm

> Subject: [ap-ug] Re: AP 800 drift alignment problem

>

> Hi all,

> Thank you all for your input I will be trying some things here and if need

> be I

> will have the controller checked.

> Thanks again,

> Glen

>

> --- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > A lot of times drift in RA is caused by telescope optics flexure. This

> is

> especially true of SCTs like the C11 and C14, and the various Meade

> models. The

> optics slowly move due to a gravity, and it looks like the mount is not

> tracking

> properly, but really it is the optics that are moving inside the tube.

> This is a

> well known anomaly that all us mount manufacturers know about and we

> always get

> questions from users of SCTs why the "mount" is not tracking.

> >

> > Also, the tracking speed of a mount is not influenced by power. It

> either

> tracks or it does not, there is no in between. We can certainly check the

> tracking rate here at the shop. We don't need the whole mount, just the

> controller. Call AP and get an RA number if you wish to have it checked

> out.

> >

> > Rolando

> >

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: JoeMize

> > To: ap-ug ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

> > Sent: Wed, Mar 6, 2013 10:12 am

> > Subject: Re: [ap-ug] AP 800 drift alignment problem

> >

> >

> > Glen, "...any suggestions what might be causing this easterly drift?",

> > sounds like RA is tracking slow. PE as expected, would exhibit a rocking

> > motion, the star would travel East a little distance then return to the

> > West. Since the star doesn't return suggests the tracking speed is slow.

> > Have you checked the power to your AP800, is it sufficient?

> >

> > If power is correct could the RA gears possibly be too tight. Check

> > documentation, or with A-P, for proper setting/testing of gear spacings.

> > G'Luck...joe :)

> >

> >

> > "May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars"

> > Joe Mize www.cav-sfo.com

> > Chiefland Astronomy Village (CAV), Fla

> > StarFields Observatory, (SFO).

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: "backtomars2003"

> > To: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com>

> > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 1:51 PM

> > Subject: [ap-ug] AP 800 drift alignment problem

> >

> >

> > > Hi All

> > >

> > > I have an AP 800 mount that I purchased used. It's mounted permanently

> in

> > > my observatory on a pier. The mount has been leveled and balanced.

> > >

> > > I've been trying to do a drift alignment on the mount over several

> nights.

> > >

> > > I've managed to get no drift in the north/south direction both toward

> the

> > > meridian and the east ecliptic.

> > >

> > > The problem I'm encountering is that I keep getting a drift to the

> east

> > > while performing the drift alignment. This happens when I'm on either

> side

> > > of the meridian. The star moves out of the center square in the

> eyepiece

> > > reticle within a 5 to 10 minute period always to the east.

> > >

> > > Does anyone have any suggestions what might be causing this easterly

> > > drift?

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Glen

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

---------------

> > >

> > >

> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> > > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ugYahoo! Groups Links

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

---------------

> >

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ugYahoo! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

---------------

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ugYahoo! Groups Links

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>



--

Our new e-mail address is longeyesone@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



---------------



To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ugYahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#72177 Jan 1, 2016

Hello,

As the user of a Mach1 plus lots of AP accessories I figured I could post this questions which I just sent to the FLI forum. Thanks for any input guys, and a happy new year!

Robert

---------------

With the arrival of the 16200 sensor I am thinking about getting "more real estate" with a FLI Microline. The pixel size is just right for my TEC 140 and I will be able to work with 2" filters.

So far I have been using a Starlight Xpress H694 with a 16mm diagonal.��The SX cameras have three tilt screws to align the sensor square to the optical axis and I had to use them to get an even FWHM across the entire field as the edges were a bit off.��

Now the 16200 diagonal is more than double and I noticed that the FLI Microline, and for that matter all other camera manufacturers except SX, has no alignment option. If one assumes a critical focus zone of, say 100 microns, the chip just needs to be misaligned by 0,2 degrees for the corners to start to be out of focus. I have no means of judging how the manufacturing tolerances of the parts that go into the optical train are and ultimately stack up, but this seems like a challenge to guarantee.

Now, my question is:

Did I just have "bad luck" with my SX? If not, i.e. if others have run into this issue, what are the options? Just live with it, or "cobble together" a solution with shims, or whatever?



----------------------------

#74929 Jul 25, 2017

www.astromart.com/common/image_popup.asp?image=/images/forums/834000-834999/834709.jpg&caption=





-----Original Message-----

From: chris1011 chris1011@...>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 3:15 pm

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Polar Alignment - RA & Dec Fight

Drift alignment:

My refined technique is to align azimuth first on a star on the celestial equator, not worrying about RA drift, Just zero out Dec drift there. Then, once that is done, i go to a star near the zenith (usually on the East side within 1/2 hour) and align the altitude axis by zeroing out the RA drift. Done this way, the two adjustments are independent and don't interfere with each other. The adjustment can be done in about 15 minutes.

Doing it this way gives me essentially zero RA and zero Dec drift over a wide area across the zenith. Of course, this does not align the pole exactly, but I'm more interested in no drift over a wide area versus best pointing. Even with my 17" F8 astrograph (3454mm FL), I can land just about every deep sky object somewhere on the STL11K chip. A simple pointing model can then align your scope to the sky further if you wish.

Orthogonality alignment:

I have also found a super easy way to get the orthogonality error down to near zero after the mount is aligned per the above drift method. It does not require any fancy flipping of the axes back and forth. It is simply this: Do a GoTo to Polaris. The star will not be in the center (eyepiece or CCD image) if you have any orthogonality error. Put the star as close to center in Dec with the N-S buttons. You will find that it will not move with RA with the E-W buttons. However, if you push a bit on the telescope tube in the RA direction, you will see the star move either toward or away from the center. Determine which way the tube must move to end up toward the center. Loosen either front or rear scope rings and slip a thin shim under the rings (.005" to .025" as needed). With the right amount of shim, you can get Polaris exactly in the middle in the RA direction while using the N-S buttons to adjust the Dec direction.

I did this with my 17" astrograph, which needed about .020" shim under the rear rings. I can now go from one side of the meridian to the other and put every object on the chip without going to a bright star first. How long did it take me to do this? About 8 minutes, and worthwhile to do. No software compensation can eliminate this error near the pole, but this simple mechanical align can get you dead nuts on every time.

Rolando





-----Original Message-----From: Steven Waldren swaldren@... [ap-gto] ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 9:29 amSubject: Re: [ap-gto] Polar Alignment - RA & Dec Fight



EDIT: ....��West horizon and drifted in Az.. . Should.ve said Alt not Az.

On Jul 25, 2017, at 9:14 AM, Steven Waldren swaldren@... [ap-gto] ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hello,

I had a interesting experience last night trying to polar align my MACH1, which is portable on a tripod. After polar aligning with my RAPS, I went to check with a drift align in PHD2. I drifted in just east of the meridian and was off by a couple of arc-minutes. I adjusted to within 1 arc-minute. I then slewed to the West horizon and drifted in Az. It was apparently off by over 10 arc-minutes. I adjusted to under an error under 1 arc-minute. When I slewed back the original star I drift aligned Alt on, PHD2 said it was off by 14 arc-minutes. I then adjusted Az to get polar error under 1 arc-minute. Then using PHD2 guiding assistant, I checked the polar alignment error, which was calculated at 4.5 arc-min.��

Any tips on what to check or what user errors I may have to cause an adjustment in Alt to effect alignment in Az (mount spirit level appeared level). During calibration of PHD2 I did not get any errors and I don.t think I deviated from my normal routine, which usually works well.

Best,Steven



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