Re: an expression of appreciation of AP


Aug 27, 2005

 


----------------------------

#29104 Aug 27, 2005

I DID look at the auction for the TEC. If my quick calculating is correct, the first bid put it

over the retail price. So I hope this is not the scope that Mark's friends (or anyone else) is

waiting for. If that IS their scope-to-be, I sure as hell hope they have already been notified

that a shipment is heading their way.



At any rate, Mark is absolutely right. Imagine what would happen if Roland decided to

auction off his beauties. I think that at first, there would be a frenzied fight. A-P scope

prices would shoot up, and Roland would make a quick windfall. Later, though, people

would have a bad taste in their mouths about this process, and A-P would become known

as a company that people hate to do business with.



THANK YOU FOR NOT DOING THIS, ROLAND



Ronnie Warner

--- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt Mihalco" mihalco@p...> wrote:

> If you look at the auction, you will see that a) it is at the retail price,

> and b) anyone that has a deposit down waiting for a scope can win the

> auction scope, and have their full deposit credited toward it.

> Kurt Mihalco

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-ug@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

> mmanner

> Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 1:33 PM

> To: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: [ap-ug] an expression of appreciation of AP

>

> I was just wandering around Astromart, and noticed on the auctions an

> apo refractor being offered by the manufacturer, "new and available

> immediately". I have a couple of friends who have that exact scope on

> order, and they are still waiting for theirs. Without commenting

> further on a manufacturer's decision to sell a scope at auction for

> above the list price while there are those who have ordered the scope

> and are still waiting, I do want to thank Mr. Christen for his approach.

> Mark Manner

> www.spotastro.com

>

>

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

> Yahoo! Groups Links



----------------------------

#29105 Aug 27, 2005

It does beg the question as to how much an AP160 would sell for if one

were placed in such auction?!



Anthony.

--- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, "Ronnie Warner" rwarner@t...> wrote:

> I DID look at the auction for the TEC. If my quick calculating is

correct, the first bid put it

> over the retail price. So I hope this is not the scope that Mark's

friends (or anyone else) is

> waiting for. If that IS their scope-to-be, I sure as hell hope they

have already been notified

> that a shipment is heading their way.

>

> At any rate, Mark is absolutely right. Imagine what would happen if

Roland decided to

> auction off his beauties. I think that at first, there would be a

frenzied fight. A-P scope

> prices would shoot up, and Roland would make a quick windfall.

Later, though, people

> would have a bad taste in their mouths about this process, and A-P

would become known

> as a company that people hate to do business with.

>

> THANK YOU FOR NOT DOING THIS, ROLAND

>

> Ronnie Warner

>

> --- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt Mihalco" mihalco@p...> wrote:

> > If you look at the auction, you will see that a) it is at the

retail price,

> > and b) anyone that has a deposit down waiting for a scope can win the

> > auction scope, and have their full deposit credited toward it.

> > Kurt Mihalco

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-ug@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf Of

> > mmanner

> > Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 1:33 PM

> > To: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: [ap-ug] an expression of appreciation of AP

> >

> > I was just wandering around Astromart, and noticed on the auctions an

> > apo refractor being offered by the manufacturer, "new and available

> > immediately". I have a couple of friends who have that exact

scope on

> > order, and they are still waiting for theirs. Without commenting

> > further on a manufacturer's decision to sell a scope at auction for

> > above the list price while there are those who have ordered the scope

> > and are still waiting, I do want to thank Mr. Christen for his

approach.

> > Mark Manner

> > www.spotastro.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-ug list

> > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-ug

> > Yahoo! Groups Links



----------------------------

#29106 Aug 27, 2005

Ronnie & Mark,

Heck, I wouldn't mind at all to see Roland and company do this occasionally,

as does Yuri at TEC. From what I have seen, Yuri has done this 3 times

(including the current auction), seemingly to mark a particular milestone.

The first was the 100th APO140, the second was the final TEC6 Mak, the

current one is the 200th APO140.



There is always going to be someone that will pay a great deal extra to get

one "NOW!" vs. having to wait. As long as it is not "abused" (which I don't

think TEC does), why not let Roland and Marge celebrate a few milestones and

see what someone who really "wants it now!" is willing to pay for their

product. Look at it as a well earned Bonus. Maybe it gives them a few extra

days and bucks to spend on the Big Island. ;>)

Just my Opinion,

Kurt



-----Original Message-----

From: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-ug@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

ayiomamitis

Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 5:02 PM

To: ap-ug@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [ap-ug] Re: an expression of appreciation of AP



It does beg the question as to how much an AP160 would sell for if one

were placed in such auction?!



Anthony.







----------------------------

#29107 Aug 27, 2005

--- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, "Ronnie Warner" rwarner@t...> wrote: > I DID look at the auction for the TEC. If my quick calculating is

correct, the first bid put it > over the retail price. So I hope this is not the scope that Mark's

friends (or anyone else) is > waiting for.



Hi Ronnie,



I have danced this dance with Yuri before. He believes (and I

respectfully disagree) that there is some magic in the round serial

numbers. Therefore he has pulled 140ED #100 and now #200 out of

serial production and offered them at auction. This also may be an

attempt to raise brand awareness, but Mark's and your reaction

confirms there is definite a downside to it!



Clear skies,

Milt



----------------------------

#29108 Aug 27, 2005

There is similar but not so obvious issue, which is how many scopes get

allocated to dealers. In AP's case they are world wide and everyone that

gets sold in one country takes away from those sold in all other countries.

Just the nature of constrained supply [supply is always constrained but most

folks assume price is the best method of constraint]. Way back when I got

my AP130 I was notified by AP and C7 as I had signed up with both. I do not

know but assume they were different lists. I personally don't have an issue

with an auction of "milestone serial numbers" but think it could be a real

marketing negative. It would surely be a disaster if dealers started the

practice of selling by auction.



----------------------------

#29111 Aug 28, 2005

Well, being one not to pull punches, I brought this very issue, and question to the Yahoo TEC group this afternoon, and was shortly thereafter banned from the group.

I've been a member there for quite some time.



Yes, I openly addressed, and questioned Yuri himself why he would, as a manufacturer "personally auction" his own scope on astromart in celebration of his #200 140 Apo? (Off the cuff, it is my opinion if you want to celebrate a landmark, fly you, and your employees out for a Filet Mignon Steak Dinner at Gibson's in Chicago, don't auction a scope on A-mart for this occasion!)



Anyway, my post was sensible, to the point, and kind. I admire, and congratulated Yuri for what he has done, coming into a very hard market with very desireable high quality scopes for us amateurs, and I strongly suspect that it was NOT Yuri himself that banished me from the group.



Yuri as I know him appears to be a kind man, and wouldn't have hastily banished me, at least not without his rebuttal, and opinions.



No, I suspect I was banished by a moderator, who IMOappears to be a blind follower, and wants the TEC group to be a "all bow down to Yuri Group", and to Nazi-fy the group into "Lets all blow smoke up each other's asses".



I questioned Yuri's ethic as a manufacturer, and it was not liked.



A member replied to me before I was banned that questioned "What about Roland, and his ethic"? In other words implying that Roland lacks good business ethic. Guess the "TEC" Mafia is alive, and well, huh?



Well, I honestly cannot ever recall, seeing Roland, or Rick Singmaster, Thomas Back, Vic Maris, Carl Zambuto, Mr Ceravolo, or any other recent manufacturer I can think of publicly peddling his wares in an Astro-Mart Auction?



A side thread has also started in this group, about 'What is the standard Strehl" of TEC scopes?



Well sure, once you now say you've made a scope in the high '90's every TEC owner on the planet wonders what his/her scope now is?, and how theirs compares with this "Wonder Scope" Yuri is now auctioning.



A valid reason why Roland doesn't ship out interferometer reports with his scopes.



I'd really personally like to know who it was who it was who banned me from this group, so I could confront this irresponsible, and narrow minded person 1 on 1 in a discussion about why he/she felt it necessary to ban me from this group.



Whomever it was, they left out one other avenue I have in expressing my personal opinions about this matter, and that is SAA. A venue where I cannot be censored by my opinions, and I can certainly entertain a much much larger audience. Mark D'Ambrosio

---------------

--- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, "mmanner" jmm@h...> wrote:

> I was just wandering around Astromart, and noticed on the auctions an

> apo refractor being offered by the manufacturer, "new and available

> immediately". I have a couple of friends who have that exact scope on

> order, and they are still waiting for theirs. Without commenting

> further on a manufacturer's decision to sell a scope at auction for

> above the list price while there are those who have ordered the scope

> and are still waiting, I do want to thank Mr. Christen for his approach.

> Mark Manner



----------------------------

#29112 Aug 28, 2005

> Yuri as I know him appears to be a kind man, and wouldn't have hastily

> banished me, at least not without his rebuttal, and opinions.



Don't count on it.



best regards

Mike



----------------------------

#29113 Aug 28, 2005

--- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" mmd49@w...> wrote: > Well, being one not to pull punches, I brought this very issue,

and question to the Yahoo TEC group this afternoon, and was shortly

thereafter banned from the group. > I've been a member there for quite some time.

>

> Yes, I openly addressed, and questioned Yuri himself why he would,

as a manufacturer "personally auction" his own scope on astromart in

celebration of his #200 140 Apo? (Off the cuff, it is my opinion if

you want to celebrate a landmark, fly you, and your employees out

for a Filet Mignon Steak Dinner at Gibson's in Chicago, don't

auction a scope on A-mart for this occasion!)



Ah, let it go Mark. As someone who also likes to express an opionion

on occasion, I to get frustrated when the majority remains silent or

looks the other way while you get silenced. What we all really enjoy

is the best equipement we can offord or find,

observing/imaging/whatever the night sky, and sharing our passion.

It's a semi-free country, Yuri can do what he pleases.



You sound like a new canidate to be an AP Mafia Don. Make Yuri "an

offer he cannot refuse" for #200. Only kidding, just trying to

lighten things up a little. The trip to Gibson's in Chicage sounds

like fun, maybe we could talk Marj & Rolondo into comming. It is

there turn to buy isn't it? ;-)



Regard's

Jeff Vickers







----------------------------

#29114 Aug 28, 2005

In case you are not aware there is a group where discussions that

could get you banned in the vendor groups are encouraged.



it is really focused on the ccd imaging aspect of the hobby but

telescopes are a key ingredient to the soup and discussions about

them are certainly welcome.



it is called



ccd-uncensored-equipment-talk



it's on Yahoo.



personally I got really tired of the blatant attempts at muzzling

comments that are relevant but run counter to the business interests

of the various group owners or those that control them behind the

scenes, so I founded the group several months ago.



Like any group it ebbs and flows but there are often very interesting

discussions. Of topic right now is the fact that SBIG let their key

self-guided ccd camera patent expire for failure to pay the

maintenance fees to the USPTO. The expiration happened over 14 months

ago according to public domain documentation on the USPTO website.





--- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" mmd49@w...> wrote:

> Well, being one not to pull punches, I brought this very issue, and

question to the Yahoo TEC group this afternoon, and was shortly

thereafter banned from the group.

> I've been a member there for quite some time.

>

> Yes, I openly addressed, and questioned Yuri himself why he would,

as a manufacturer "personally auction" his own scope on astromart in

celebration of his #200 140 Apo? (Off the cuff, it is my opinion if

you want to celebrate a landmark, fly you, and your employees out for

a Filet Mignon Steak Dinner at Gibson's in Chicago, don't auction a

scope on A-mart for this occasion!)

>

> Anyway, my post was sensible, to the point, and kind. I admire, and

congratulated Yuri for what he has done, coming into a very hard

market with very desireable high quality scopes for us amateurs, and

I strongly suspect that it was NOT Yuri himself that banished me from

the group.

>

> Yuri as I know him appears to be a kind man, and wouldn't have

hastily banished me, at least not without his rebuttal, and opinions.

>

> No, I suspect I was banished by a moderator, who IMOappears to be a

blind follower, and wants the TEC group to be a "all bow down to Yuri

Group", and to Nazi-fy the group into "Lets all blow smoke up each

other's asses".

>

> I questioned Yuri's ethic as a manufacturer, and it was not liked.

>

> A member replied to me before I was banned that questioned "What

about Roland, and his ethic"? In other words implying that Roland

lacks good business ethic. Guess the "TEC" Mafia is alive, and well,

huh?

>

> Well, I honestly cannot ever recall, seeing Roland, or Rick

Singmaster, Thomas Back, Vic Maris, Carl Zambuto, Mr Ceravolo, or any

other recent manufacturer I can think of publicly peddling his wares

in an Astro-Mart Auction?

>

> A side thread has also started in this group, about 'What is the

standard Strehl" of TEC scopes?

>

> Well sure, once you now say you've made a scope in the high '90's

every TEC owner on the planet wonders what his/her scope now is?, and

how theirs compares with this "Wonder Scope" Yuri is now auctioning.

>

> A valid reason why Roland doesn't ship out interferometer reports

with his scopes.

>

> I'd really personally like to know who it was who it was who banned

me from this group, so I could confront this irresponsible, and

narrow minded person 1 on 1 in a discussion about why he/she felt it

necessary to ban me from this group.

>

> Whomever it was, they left out one other avenue I have in

expressing my personal opinions about this matter, and that is SAA.

A venue where I cannot be censored by my opinions, and I can

certainly entertain a much much larger audience. Mark D'Ambrosio

---------------

>

> --- In ap-ug@yahoogroups.com, "mmanner" jmm@h...> wrote:

> > I was just wandering around Astromart, and noticed on the

auctions an

> > apo refractor being offered by the manufacturer, "new and

available

> > immediately". I have a couple of friends who have that exact

scope on

> > order, and they are still waiting for theirs. Without commenting

> > further on a manufacturer's decision to sell a scope at auction

for

> > above the list price while there are those who have ordered the

scope

> > and are still waiting, I do want to thank Mr. Christen for his

approach.

> > Mark Manner



----------------------------

#29115 Aug 28, 2005

Yes, thats' true, that Yuri himself may have banned me, as he really doesn't have a valid answer for auctioning one of his own scopes.



I seem to recall a mention in this auction of stating this scope having a very high .99+ strehl, but don't see this listed anymore.



Since only Yuri himself can revise the auction, perhaps my mention of possible customer unrest over strehl specs may have not fallen upon "deaf ears"?



I commented to the group as a friendly advisor, not an adversary, and that this suction could have unfavorable repercussions rather than favorable ones.



Can anyone recall the old HTPO-Apomax S+T advertisement?

In where the advertisement's claim was that the 5" Apomax bested a nearby 7" Apo? (Which was Thomas Back's AP180EDT BTW)



I'm sorry to open old wounds bringing this old, certainly worn out topic up, but it surely didn't do much for the Apomax's manufacturer as far as credibility, and good business ethics go IMO.



I amicably cautioned Yuri that this auction could have ill repercussions for his company.



And yes, I am one of the new "AP Dons" done here in Southern New Mexico. Sort of a head overseer, "Tony the Ant" Spilotro sort of guy in the Desert Southwest! :-) lol

Mark D.







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