Re: 3600GTO - El Capitan unveiled at AIC


Oct 26, 2007

 


----------------------------

#19633 Oct 26, 2007

congratulations! it looks beautiful and I want one NOW!



rdc





Marj marj@...> wrote:

Hi all,



Roland kept our secret (barely) g>. He was bursting at the seams.



We are so excited to introduce our HUGE new GTO mount, which we have nicknamed - El Capitan. How fittting that we introduce it with Yosemite so near to San Jose (well, compared to IL).



Check the information on our website for details and see how it dwarfs teh 1200GTO.

www.astro-physics.com/products/mounts/3600gto/3600gto.htm



I am preparing some photos that will be posted on our events page this afternoon.......



Marj Christen

Astro-Physics, Inc

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

Fax: 815-282-9847

www.astro-physics.com

Please include this e-mail with your response.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#19634 Oct 26, 2007

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Marj" marj@...> wrote: >

> Hi all,

>

> Roland kept our secret (barely) g>. He was bursting at the seams.

>

> We are so excited to introduce our HUGE new GTO mount, which we have

nicknamed - El Capitan. How fittting that we introduce it with

Yosemite so near to San Jose (well, compared to IL). >

> Check the information on our website for details and see how it

dwarfs teh 1200GTO. > www.astro-physics.com/products/mounts/3600gto/3600gto.htm

>

> I am preparing some photos that will be posted on our events page

this afternoon....... >

> Marj Christen

> Astro-Physics, Inc

> 11250 Forest Hills Road

> Machesney Park, IL 61115

> Phone: 815-282-1513

> Fax: 815-282-9847

> www.astro-physics.com

> Please include this e-mail with your response.

>

>

>

Marj, that is HUGE! All the talk in another forum is, "How much $$"

I'm betting 15K for the mount alone.

Roland is still keeping that a secret, huh?



----------------------------

#19635 Oct 26, 2007

Rolando and Marj,



Many congrats on the latest addition to the family!



Now if only you can introduce a "suitable" scope for this new beast

... and, yes, please sign me up automatically right now for the

suitable scope(s).



Anthony.

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Marj" marj@...> wrote:

>

> Hi all,

>

> Roland kept our secret (barely) g>. He was bursting at the seams.

>

> We are so excited to introduce our HUGE new GTO mount, which we have

nicknamed - El Capitan. How fittting that we introduce it with

Yosemite so near to San Jose (well, compared to IL).

>

> Check the information on our website for details and see how it

dwarfs teh 1200GTO.

> www.astro-physics.com/products/mounts/3600gto/3600gto.htm

>

> I am preparing some photos that will be posted on our events page

this afternoon.......

>

> Marj Christen

> Astro-Physics, Inc

> 11250 Forest Hills Road

> Machesney Park, IL 61115

> Phone: 815-282-1513

> Fax: 815-282-9847

> www.astro-physics.com

> Please include this e-mail with your response.

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



----------------------------

#19638 Oct 26, 2007

Jerry,



You will be pleasantly surprised.......





Marj Christen

Astro-Physics, Inc

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

Fax: 815-282-9847

www.astro-physics.com

Please include this e-mail with your response.



-----Original Message-----

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Lodriguss

Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 4:38 PM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: 3600GTO - El Capitan unveiled at AIC







At 04:16 PM 10/26/2007, you wrote: >Marj, that is HUGE! All the talk in another forum is, "How much $$"

>I'm betting 15K for the mount alone.

>Roland is still keeping that a secret, huh?



15K for that mount?



You are going to be sadly disappointed.



Meade sells their big mount for that $30K, surely an AP mount must be

worth, I would guess, 2-3 times that much.



The Takahashi EM-2500 Temma-2 Mount with a 155 lb. load capacity is $46K.



If you base it solely on the relationship between the mount number

and the price of a fully equipped mount (counterweights, dovetail,

etc)... AP900 is about 9K, AP1200 about 12K, then the price would be

about 36K for the 3600 mount... I'm betting more.



Let's get up a pool and maybe Roland will give a free one as a prize

to the one who guesses correctly!



:-)



Jerry















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#19639 Oct 26, 2007

It better be a whole bunch more than the 1200 I just ordered today!



Dean



PS, Marj hurry :))))





----- Original Message -----

From: "Marj" marj@...>

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 6:07 PM

Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: 3600GTO - El Capitan unveiled at AIC





> Jerry,

>

> You will be pleasantly surprised.......

>

>

> Marj Christen

> Astro-Physics, Inc

> 11250 Forest Hills Road

> Machesney Park, IL 61115

> Phone: 815-282-1513

> Fax: 815-282-9847

> www.astro-physics.com

> Please include this e-mail with your response.

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of

> Jerry Lodriguss

> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 4:38 PM

> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: 3600GTO - El Capitan unveiled at AIC

>

>

>

> At 04:16 PM 10/26/2007, you wrote:

>>Marj, that is HUGE! All the talk in another forum is, "How much $$"

>>I'm betting 15K for the mount alone.

>>Roland is still keeping that a secret, huh?

>

> 15K for that mount?

>

> You are going to be sadly disappointed.

>

> Meade sells their big mount for that $30K, surely an AP mount must be

> worth, I would guess, 2-3 times that much.

>

> The Takahashi EM-2500 Temma-2 Mount with a 155 lb. load capacity is $46K.

>

> If you base it solely on the relationship between the mount number

> and the price of a fully equipped mount (counterweights, dovetail,

> etc)... AP900 is about 9K, AP1200 about 12K, then the price would be

> about 36K for the 3600 mount... I'm betting more.

>

> Let's get up a pool and maybe Roland will give a free one as a prize

> to the one who guesses correctly!

>

> :-)

>

> Jerry

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

> --

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.12/1095 - Release Date:

> 10/26/2007 7:54 PM

>

>



----------------------------

#19640 Oct 26, 2007

Marj,



Any possibility of a package deal ... AP3600 + pier + counterweights?

I realize the last bit (counterweights) is a bit of an unknown since

most people will have differing needs but, given the capacity of the

mount, I think we can all guestimate the amount of counterweightage

needed.



This looks like one sweet mount ... and so is the pricing!!!!



Anthony.

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Marj" marj@...> wrote:

>

> Looks like it will come in between $19-20K, depending on the final

configuration and number of mounts we produce in a run (the more

mounts, the better the break on the material and the setup costs are

spread out).

>

>

> Marj Christen

> Astro-Physics, Inc

> 11250 Forest Hills Road

> Machesney Park, IL 61115

> Phone: 815-282-1513

> Fax: 815-282-9847

> www.astro-physics.com

> Please include this e-mail with your response.

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]On

Behalf Of uthin8er

> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 3:17 PM

> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 3600GTO - El Capitan unveiled at AIC

>

>

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups. mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> com,

"Marj" marj@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > Roland kept our secret (barely) g>. He was bursting at the seams.

> >

> > We are so excited to introduce our HUGE new GTO mount, which we have

> nicknamed - El Capitan. How fittting that we introduce it with

> Yosemite so near to San Jose (well, compared to IL).

> >

> > Check the information on our website for details and see how it

> dwarfs teh 1200GTO.

> > www.astro-

www.astro-physics.com/products/mounts/3600gto/3600gto.htm>

physics.com/products/mounts/3600gto/3600gto.htm

> >

> > I am preparing some photos that will be posted on our events page

> this afternoon.......

> >

> > Marj Christen

> > Astro-Physics, Inc

> > 11250 Forest Hills Road

> > Machesney Park, IL 61115

> > Phone: 815-282-1513

> > Fax: 815-282-9847

> > www.astro-physics.com

> > Please include this e-mail with your response.

> >

> >

> >

> Marj, that is HUGE! All the talk in another forum is, "How much $$"

> I'm betting 15K for the mount alone.

> Roland is still keeping that a secret, huh?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>







----------------------------

#19642 Oct 26, 2007

not only what Bill said, AP doesn't normally engage in the widely practiced policy of PRICE GOUGING like so many other vendors do.



That's part of the reason there's a waiting list....



----- Original Message -----

From: William R. Mattil

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 3:58 PM

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: 3600GTO - El Capitan unveiled at AIC





Jerry Lodriguss wrote:

> 15K for that mount?

>

> You are going to be sadly disappointed.

>

> Meade sells their big mount for that $30K, surely an AP mount must be

> worth, I would guess, 2-3 times that much.

>

> The Takahashi EM-2500 Temma-2 Mount with a 155 lb. load capacity is $46K.

>

> If you base it solely on the relationship between the mount number

> and the price of a fully equipped mount (counterweights, dovetail,

> etc)... AP900 is about 9K, AP1200 about 12K, then the price would be

> about 36K for the 3600 mount... I'm betting more.

>

> Let's get up a pool and maybe Roland will give a free one as a prize

> to the one who guesses correctly!

>

>

>

Jerry,



It's entirely likely that the AP3600 is/was meant to provide those AP

Customers a mount that is equal to or surpasses the Bisque mount. And

from the looks of they have indeed done exactly that. So in that light

$15K would be about right.



The Meade mount at any price is still a Meade :( Besides ..... didn't

that price include the optical tube ?



Marj: Put me on the list. I'll take one g>



Regards



Bill



--



William R. Mattil : www.celestial-images.com











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#19647 Oct 26, 2007

Well for those that are here at AIC and see the scope up close and

personal, it makes the 1200 look like a toy.

The 3600 is MASSIVE.

well done.

...paul.



----------------------------

#19649 Oct 26, 2007

Hi Marj,



That's very impressive!



Jerry







At 06:05 PM 10/26/2007, you wrote: >Looks like it will come in between $19-20K, depending on the final

>configuration and number of mounts we produce in a run (the more

>mounts, the better the break on the material and the setup costs are

>spread out).

>

>

>Marj Christen

>Astro-Physics, Inc

>11250 Forest Hills Road

>Machesney Park, IL 61115

>Phone: 815-282-1513

>Fax: 815-282-9847

>www.astro-physics.com

>Please include this e-mail with your response.

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]On

>Behalf Of uthin8er

>Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 3:17 PM

>To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

>Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 3600GTO - El Capitan unveiled at AIC

>

>

>

>--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups. mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> com,

>"Marj" marj@...> wrote:

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > Roland kept our secret (barely) g>. He was bursting at the seams.

> >

> > We are so excited to introduce our HUGE new GTO mount, which we have

>nicknamed - El Capitan. How fittting that we introduce it with

>Yosemite so near to San Jose (well, compared to IL).

> >

> > Check the information on our website for details and see how it

>dwarfs teh 1200GTO.

> > www.astro-

> www.astro-physics.com/products/mounts/3600gto/3600gto.htm>

> physics.com/products/mounts/3600gto/3600gto.htm

> >

> > I am preparing some photos that will be posted on our events page

>this afternoon.......

> >

> > Marj Christen

> > Astro-Physics, Inc

> > 11250 Forest Hills Road

> > Machesney Park, IL 61115

> > Phone: 815-282-1513

> > Fax: 815-282-9847

> > www.astro-physics.com

> > Please include this e-mail with your response.

> >

> >

> >

>Marj, that is HUGE! All the talk in another forum is, "How much $$"

>I'm betting 15K for the mount alone.

>Roland is still keeping that a secret, huh?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

>see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

>Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>



A Guide to Astrophotography with Digital SLR Cameras

www.astropix.com/GADC/GADC.HTM

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.



----------------------------

#19650 Oct 26, 2007

It sounds reasonable. But, I think I hear a lot of puckering going

on out there. :-)



Rich



Looks like it will come in between $19-20K, depending on the final configuration and number of mounts we produce in a run (the more mounts, the better the break on the material and the setup costs are spread out).





Marj Christen

Astro-Physics, Inc

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

Fax: 815-282-9847

www.astro-physics.com

Please include this e-mail with your response.



-----Original Message-----

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of uthin8er

Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 3:17 PM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 3600GTO - El Capitan unveiled at AIC

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups. mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Marj" marj@...> wrote:

>

> Hi all,

>

> Roland kept our secret (barely) g>. He was bursting at the seams.

>

> We are so excited to introduce our HUGE new GTO mount, which we have

nicknamed - El Capitan. How fittting that we introduce it with

Yosemite so near to San Jose (well, compared to IL).

>

> Check the information on our website for details and see how it

dwarfs teh 1200GTO.

> www.astro- www.astro-physics.com/products/mounts/3600gto/3600gto.htm> physics.com/products/mounts/3600gto/3600gto.htm

>

> I am preparing some photos that will be posted on our events page

this afternoon.......

>

> Marj Christen

> Astro-Physics, Inc

> 11250 Forest Hills Road

> Machesney Park, IL 61115

> Phone: 815-282-1513

> Fax: 815-282-9847

> www.astro-physics.com

> Please include this e-mail with your response.

>

>

>

Marj, that is HUGE! All the talk in another forum is, "How much $$"

I'm betting 15K for the mount alone.

Roland is still keeping that a secret, huh?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#19654 Oct 26, 2007

Good guess Jerry,



I see you must have been a fan of the "6 Million Dollar Man" TV series

where he cost 6 Megabucks, but his dog Maxamillion ... only a megabuck. But, I

see that you can be right - it will be interesting. I just hope you aren't

putting prices in Roland's head, prematurely, or it will be a self fulfilling

prophecy :-)



Joe

----- Original Message -----

From: "Jerry Lodriguss" lists5@...>

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: 3600GTO - El Capitan unveiled at AIC





> At 04:16 PM 10/26/2007, you wrote:

>>Marj, that is HUGE! All the talk in another forum is, "How much $$"

>>I'm betting 15K for the mount alone.

>>Roland is still keeping that a secret, huh?

>

> 15K for that mount?

>

> You are going to be sadly disappointed.

>

> Meade sells their big mount for that $30K, surely an AP mount must be

> worth, I would guess, 2-3 times that much.

>

> The Takahashi EM-2500 Temma-2 Mount with a 155 lb. load capacity is $46K.

>

> If you base it solely on the relationship between the mount number

> and the price of a fully equipped mount (counterweights, dovetail,

> etc)... AP900 is about 9K, AP1200 about 12K, then the price would be

> about 36K for the 3600 mount... I'm betting more.

>

> Let's get up a pool and maybe Roland will give a free one as a prize

> to the one who guesses correctly!

>

> :-)

>

> Jerry

>

>

>

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>



----------------------------

#19655 Oct 26, 2007

Really gorgeous mount, Marj,



I'm glad you released it before any of us has started our Christmas

shopping.

Next task ... to get approval from S.W.M.B.O. for that under the tree

surprise. :-)



Joe



----- Original Message -----

From: "Marj" marj@...>

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 6:05 PM

Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: 3600GTO - El Capitan unveiled at AIC





> Looks like it will come in between $19-20K, depending on the final

> configuration and number of mounts we produce in a run (the more mounts, the

> better the break on the material and the setup costs are spread out).

>

>

> Marj Christen

> Astro-Physics, Inc

> 11250 Forest Hills Road

> Machesney Park, IL 61115

> Phone: 815-282-1513

> Fax: 815-282-9847

> www.astro-physics.com

> Please include this e-mail with your response.

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of

> uthin8er

> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 3:17 PM

> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 3600GTO - El Capitan unveiled at AIC

>

>

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups. mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Marj"

> marj@...> wrote:

>>

>> Hi all,

>>

>> Roland kept our secret (barely) g>. He was bursting at the seams.

>>

>> We are so excited to introduce our HUGE new GTO mount, which we have

> nicknamed - El Capitan. How fittting that we introduce it with

> Yosemite so near to San Jose (well, compared to IL).

>>

>> Check the information on our website for details and see how it

> dwarfs teh 1200GTO.

>> www.astro-

>> www.astro-physics.com/products/mounts/3600gto/3600gto.htm>

>> physics.com/products/mounts/3600gto/3600gto.htm

>>

>> I am preparing some photos that will be posted on our events page

> this afternoon.......

>>

>> Marj Christen

>> Astro-Physics, Inc

>> 11250 Forest Hills Road

>> Machesney Park, IL 61115

>> Phone: 815-282-1513

>> Fax: 815-282-9847

>> www.astro-physics.com

>> Please include this e-mail with your response.

>>

>>

>>

> Marj, that is HUGE! All the talk in another forum is, "How much $$"

> I'm betting 15K for the mount alone.

> Roland is still keeping that a secret, huh?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>



----------------------------

#19656 Oct 26, 2007

Paul,



.... Wait til you see the Pelican case for it :-)



Joe

----- Original Message -----

From: "Paul Mortfield" paul@...>

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 8:37 PM

Subject: [ap-gto] Re:3600GTO - El Capitan unveiled at AIC





> Well for those that are here at AIC and see the scope up close and

> personal, it makes the 1200 look like a toy.

> The 3600 is MASSIVE.

> well done.

> ...paul.

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>







----------------------------

#19658 Oct 26, 2007

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Zeglinski" J.Zeglinski@...> wrote: >

> Really gorgeous mount, Marj,

>

> I'm glad you released it before any of us has started our Christmas

> shopping.

> Next task ... to get approval from S.W.M.B.O. for that under the tree

> surprise. :-)

>

> Joe

>



Wow, I want to see that tree ...



-- Lou



----------------------------

#19662 Oct 26, 2007

Dear Bill,



You should be able to sign up on our online notification list. Thanks for your interest.





Marj Christen

Astro-Physics, Inc

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

Fax: 815-282-9847

www.astro-physics.com

Please include this e-mail with your response.



-----Original Message-----

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of William R. Mattil

Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 5:58 PM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: 3600GTO - El Capitan unveiled at AIC







Jerry Lodriguss wrote: > 15K for that mount?

>

> You are going to be sadly disappointed.

>

> Meade sells their big mount for that $30K, surely an AP mount must be

> worth, I would guess, 2-3 times that much.

>

> The Takahashi EM-2500 Temma-2 Mount with a 155 lb. load capacity is $46K.

>

> If you base it solely on the relationship between the mount number

> and the price of a fully equipped mount (counterweights, dovetail,

> etc)... AP900 is about 9K, AP1200 about 12K, then the price would be

> about 36K for the 3600 mount... I'm betting more.

>

> Let's get up a pool and maybe Roland will give a free one as a prize

> to the one who guesses correctly!

>

>

>

Jerry,



It's entirely likely that the AP3600 is/was meant to provide those AP

Customers a mount that is equal to or surpasses the Bisque mount. And

from the looks of they have indeed done exactly that. So in that light

$15K would be about right.



The Meade mount at any price is still a Meade :( Besides ..... didn't

that price include the optical tube ?



Marj: Put me on the list. I'll take one g>



Regards



Bill



--



William R. Mattil : www.celestia www.celestial-images.com> l-images.com















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#19663 Oct 26, 2007

Hi Richard,



This is how it looks:

www.trivalleystargazers.org/gert/download/IMG_3640.JPG



Gert

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Richard Crisp rdcrisp@...> wrote:



>

> congratulations! it looks beautiful and I want one NOW!

>

> rdc

>

>

> Marj marj@...> wrote:

> Hi all,

>

> Roland kept our secret (barely) g>. He was bursting at the seams.

>

> We are so excited to introduce our HUGE new GTO mount, which we have

nicknamed - El Capitan. How fittting that we introduce it with

Yosemite so near to San Jose (well, compared to IL).

>

> Check the information on our website for details and see how it

dwarfs teh 1200GTO.

> www.astro-physics.com/products/mounts/3600gto/3600gto.htm

>

> I am preparing some photos that will be posted on our events page

this afternoon.......

>

> Marj Christen

> Astro-Physics, Inc

> 11250 Forest Hills Road

> Machesney Park, IL 61115

> Phone: 815-282-1513

> Fax: 815-282-9847

> www.astro-physics.com

> Please include this e-mail with your response.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



----------------------------

#19664 Oct 27, 2007

"Looks like it will come in between $19-20K, ..."



Hi Marge,

Does the price include lumbar disk/hernia repair surgery? :)



Richard



----------------------------

#19669 Oct 27, 2007

:-) I am confident that the pier will outlast human civilization...!

I am not quite sure what I was thinking...



James

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Zeglinski" J.Zeglinski@...> wrote:

>

> Whewww,

>

> Talk about a fighting chance ... with that hefty a pier, what

size of tank

> assault were you expecting :-)

>

> Enjoy your "mounts"

> Cheers,

> Joe

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "jsmiller58" jsmiller58@...>

> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 6:00 PM

> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 3600GTO - El Capitan unveiled at AIC

>

>

> > Thanks fo the heads up, Joe!

> >

> > For the 3600, if I have to re-do the pier, it will be worth it!

> > However, I think that I have a pretty hefty pier now... 4'x4'x4'

> > concrete footer sunk in the ground, with a 12" Inner Diameter schedule

> > 40 steel pipe sunk 3 feet into the 4' deep footer. But, as they say

> > in the commercials, that's not all... The concrete extends up another

> > 4' above the ground level (the above ground level is a 36" diameter

> > circular concrete "pier" around the steel pipe). Then the steel pipe

> > itself rises above the floor level (with the floor and pier physically

> > isolated). So, the pier is a combination concrete and steel pier 7

> > feet tall no less than 36" in diameter, and the footer much bigger

> > than that, with the steel pipe embedded into this almost all the way

> > down (I left 1 foot of concrete below the bottom of the pipe)... I

> > hope that I have a fighting chance... :-)

> >

> > James

> >

> >

> > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Zeglinski" J.Zeglinski@>

wrote:

> >>

> >> Hi James,

> >>

> >> Since you haven't gotten delivery of your AP1200 yet, I hope you

> > haven't

> >> poured the concrete for your 1200 pier. You're going to need a bit

> > more for

> >> the heftier 3600 pier.

> >>

> >> Just in case you forgot about that ...

> >> Joe

> >>

> >> ----- Original Message -----

> >> From: "jsmiller58" jsmiller58@>

> >> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

> >> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 1:16 AM

> >> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 3600GTO - El Capitan unveiled at AIC

> >>

> >>

> >> > Thank you to the great folks at AP - the 3600 is great news!!

> >> >

> >> > I am about to receive my new 1200 in a week or so, and now I am

> >> > already on the list for the 3600... :-) I am so happy I will be

> >> > receiving the 1200, but hey, it will have a very short tenure in my

> >> > observatory, and then it will be my "portable" mount when the 3600

> >> > arrives! Considering everything I am mounting on the 1200 I

will be

> >> > happy for the capacity of the 3600!!

> >> >

> >> > I am so eager, the photo of the 3600, with its little brother - the

> >> > 1200 - is now my computer wallpaper!!

> >> >

> >> > James

> >> >

> >> > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Zeglinski" J.Zeglinski@>

> > wrote:

> >> >>

> >> >> ..... It's going to have to be a Redwood ... to accommodate the

> >> > 3600GTO under

> >> >> it :-)

> >> >>

> >> >> Joe

> >> >>

> >> >> ----- Original Message -----

> >> >> From: "Louis Marchesi" lmarchesi@>

> >> >> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

> >> >> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 12:27 AM

> >> >> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 3600GTO - El Capitan unveiled at AIC

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >> > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Zeglinski" J.Zeglinski@>

> >> > wrote:

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> Really gorgeous mount, Marj,

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> I'm glad you released it before any of us has started our

> >> > Christmas

> >> >> >> shopping.

> >> >> >> Next task ... to get approval from S.W.M.B.O. for that under

> > the tree

> >> >> >> surprise. :-)

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> Joe

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Wow, I want to see that tree ...

> >> >> >

> >> >> > -- Lou

> >> >> >

> >> >> >

> >> >> >

> >> >> >

> >> >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> >> >> > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

> >> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >> >> >

> >> >> >

> >> >> >

> >> >> >

> >> >>

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> >> > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

> >

>







----------------------------

#19671 Oct 28, 2007

Rick,



Thanks for asking - I can see that my description is pretty confusing

(it confused me too when I re-read it)...



Just one point of clarification, - the pier is a bit tall because the

floor of the observatory is about 4 feet above the "ground" level.



The pier is a combination steel and concrete pier. The total pier

length (from the bottom of the footer, to where the mount will sit) is

close to 12 feet tall:



- 4'x4'x4' concrete footer sunk in the ground, with a steel tube

embedded in the concrete (the steel is the 12" schedule 40 pipe).

This section also has rebar reinforcement.



- The pier extends another 4 feet above ground level but still below

the surface of the observatory. This portion of the pier is concrete

and steel, 36" round. The 12" steel tube continues up through this

concrete section from the footer below. This section also has rebar

reinforcement.



- The steel pipe extends another 42" above the surface of the

observatory floor. This portion is just the 12" steel tube, and is

the "pier" on which the mount and OTA will be placed.



I should mention that all of the concrete in the pier was a single

concrete pour so there are no concrete joints. The steel pipe took 5

guys to move around, and they had to build a rebar cage just to hold

the steel tube upright in the "footer" as the concrete was being poured.



I hope that this pier is overkill. I did it this way more or less

because the incremental cost of doing it was not so much since we are

in the middle of a major remodel on our house - the equipment was

here, the construction crew was here, and even the pier concrete pour

was done when we were doing the pour for our home foundation.



As to attaching the mount to the pier, I will be welding a flat plate

to the top of the steel tube. The mount will be attached to this flat

plate.



Right now we are getting ready to start on the observatory floor. The

mount will arrive before the floor is ready, but that is OK, since the

actual observatory won't arrive until the end of November, and the new

OTA is also scheduled to arrive then. I am hoping that first light

will be early December, depending on how much effort the dome

construction is, and how long it takes to master polar aligning the

1200...



James

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "r1300rs" cardiofuse@...> wrote:

>

> James:

>

> What is the total length of your 12" steel pipe? Was that 7 feet (3

above ground); and your

> mount would connect directly to this pipe.

>

> Thanks.

>

> Rick.

>



----------------------------

#19673 Oct 28, 2007

Thanks Joe for the suggestion - I will use it!



Once mounted, I am not planning on taking off the AP1200GTO until I

get the AP3600GTO... :-)



Yeah, pier height adjustability of my solution is the one area I am

definitely worried about... I can shorten the height a bit simply by

cutting the pipe at the time we weld the flat plate on, so I will be

making some very careful measurements between now and when I do the

final attach of the 1200. I will be able to shorten the pier a bit

more when it comes time to attach the larger AP3600GTO... But, all in

all, not the ideal solution from the perspective of adjustability.

But, it will be solid... :-)



James

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Zeglinski" J.Zeglinski@...> wrote:

>

> Hi James,

>

> In all that discussion about pier heights, I suppose you have

considered

> that in the end it might be preferable to have the AP1200 saddle at

a final

> height, such that you can flip the OTA in, from "no more than" a

shoulder

> level. Otherwise, you might be looking at back strain. Of course,

this is

> assuming you will take the OTA down for star parties, etc.

>

> When your AP3600 eventually arrives, it will of course be taller

than the

> AP1200, so it might be more difficult to remove the OTA from it, for

use with

> your (portable) AP1200 in the field.

>

> Don't know how you were thinking about the changes, but one idea

might be

> to consider a small (but wide) portable one step platform, that

could be

> brought upto the pier when needed, for such tasks. Then again, with the

> AP3600, it might end up being a permanent platform, for comfortable

viewing

> and reaching attachments.

>

> Plan ahead ...

> Joe

>



----------------------------

#19674 Oct 28, 2007

In a message dated 10/28/2007 2:58:33 PM Central Daylight Time,

J.Zeglinski@... writes:



When your AP3600 eventually arrives, it will of course be taller than the

AP1200, so it might be more difficult to remove the OTA from it, for use

with

your (portable) AP1200 in the field.





Yes....but....are you really considering an AP3600?

Do you actually have an OTA suited to the AP3600......like a 20 inch RC or

bigger?

I've seen it 'in the flesh' a AIC and it is a monster.......and you could

probably ride on it with your OTA.

Maybe AP or Losmandy will offer a special dovetail seat so one can ride on

the mount much like a movie dolley.



Kent Kirkley







************************************** See what's new at www.aol.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#19675 Oct 28, 2007

I know - first there was aperture fever, now there is mount capacity

fever...! And it seems that while it used to be that the former drove

the latter, I may be entering a stage in the disease where the latter

drives the former... :-)



Right now I am going to be pushing the upper limit of the 140 pound

AP1200GTO rating with what I will be putting on it. But, someone just

gave me a great idea... a Planewave CDK20 would be an awesome OTA for

the future, and it weighs 140 pounds already with nothing else on it,

so while the 250 pounds capacity of the 3600 is still more than I

need, I can easily exceed the 140 pound capacity of the 1200...



James

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, kgkirkley@... wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 10/28/2007 2:58:33 PM Central Daylight Time,

> J.Zeglinski@... writes:

>

> When your AP3600 eventually arrives, it will of course be taller

than the

> AP1200, so it might be more difficult to remove the OTA from it, for

use

> with

> your (portable) AP1200 in the field.

>

>

> Yes....but....are you really considering an AP3600?

> Do you actually have an OTA suited to the AP3600......like a 20 inch

RC or

> bigger?

> I've seen it 'in the flesh' a AIC and it is a monster.......and you

could

> probably ride on it with your OTA.

> Maybe AP or Losmandy will offer a special dovetail seat so one can

ride on

> the mount much like a movie dolley.

>

> Kent Kirkley

>

>

>

> ************************************** See what's new at

www.aol.com

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



----------------------------

#19676 Oct 28, 2007

James,

> - The steel pipe extends another 42" above the surface of the

> observatory floor. This portion is just the 12" steel tube, and is

> the "pier" on which the mount and OTA will be placed.



Did you fill anything into the tube?

> As to attaching the mount to the pier, I will be welding a

> flat plate to the top of the steel tube.



Are you sure it is wise to weld it instead of bolt it? There is a

danger that the plate will not be flat afterwards.



Best regards,



Niels Foldager



----------------------------

#19678 Oct 28, 2007

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "nfoldager" nf@...> wrote: >

>

> James,

>

> > - The steel pipe extends another 42" above the surface of the

> > observatory floor. This portion is just the 12" steel tube, and

is > > the "pier" on which the mount and OTA will be placed.

>

> Did you fill anything into the tube?

>

> > As to attaching the mount to the pier, I will be welding a

> > flat plate to the top of the steel tube.

>

> Are you sure it is wise to weld it instead of bolt it? There is a

> danger that the plate will not be flat afterwards.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Niels Foldager

>



A bowed top plate seems hard to avoid with welding, yet at the same

time realatively easy to remove with a power grinder. Since I'm anal

about this I follow up with a tile tool and Carbo (standard mirror

making tools).



Tom



----------------------------

#19680 Oct 28, 2007

Tom,



Awesome idea! I will do exactly that...



James

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "tucstargzr" tucstargzr@...> wrote:

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "nfoldager" nf@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > James,

> >

> > > - The steel pipe extends another 42" above the surface of the

> > > observatory floor. This portion is just the 12" steel tube, and

> is

> > > the "pier" on which the mount and OTA will be placed.

> >

> > Did you fill anything into the tube?

> >

> > > As to attaching the mount to the pier, I will be welding a

> > > flat plate to the top of the steel tube.

> >

> > Are you sure it is wise to weld it instead of bolt it? There is a

> > danger that the plate will not be flat afterwards.

> >

> > Best regards,

> >

> > Niels Foldager

> >

>

> A bowed top plate seems hard to avoid with welding, yet at the same

> time realatively easy to remove with a power grinder. Since I'm anal

> about this I follow up with a tile tool and Carbo (standard mirror

> making tools).

>

> Tom

>



----------------------------

#19690 Oct 28, 2007

Hi James,



Thank you for your reply.



I agree that there is no reason to fill concrete in the tube.

However, due to the friction among the grains, sand has a good damping

effect -- should you beat the tube with that hammer (when you realize

the saddle like shape of topplate :-)



Sand is easy to remove, should you change your mind.



Best regards,



Niels



----------------------------

#19695 Oct 29, 2007

Niels,



I can see it now - a grossly deformed pier, with the AP1200GTO

pointing off by 30 degrees... More than likely it won't be a hammer

that I hit the pier with - it will be my head!!!



Sand is a great idea and I certainly will do that!



James

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "nfoldager" nf@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Hi James,

>

> Thank you for your reply.

>

> I agree that there is no reason to fill concrete in the tube.

> However, due to the friction among the grains, sand has a good damping

> effect -- should you beat the tube with that hammer (when you realize

> the saddle like shape of topplate :-)

>

> Sand is easy to remove, should you change your mind.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Niels

>







----------------------------

#19716 Oct 29, 2007

James,



You can fill the pipe with concrete at ANY time you like, perhaps in a

year or two - if you think it might help.



The only problem is welding the top, which then commits you to the pier as

it is right now, with no adjustments, making height mods impossible. If you

could get a heavy 1/2" steel "trash can" (or top hat, if you prefer) made,

that could be slipped over the top and bolted sideways (mid can) to the pier

on 3 sides, then you could use the side bolts to adjust and shift the can to

level the top of the pier quite easily. As a bonus, next year you could remove

the mount, and unbolt the trash can top, to fill the pipe, if you need to. I

would fill it with beach sand rather than concrete which could crack or strain

the pipe with observatory environmental changes, and see if it helps or

hinders. Then you can always vacuum the sand back out, if it doesn't work.

Besides, if it were me, I would use the pier pipe for an inside PVC cable run,

for a tidier looking exterior. The PVC pipe would enter the pipe through a

small hole (reinforced by welding a steel plumbing nut or pipe collar, if you

like) below deck, and come out at the top below the mount.



Actually, a hollow cylinder is stronger than a solid pipe, so I don't see

the purpose of the discussion. DOB's don't use solid pipe, do they - for good

reason (solidity and vibration issues) ?

(Ref: The Dobsonian Telescope - by David Kriege and Richard Berry)



Joe



----- Original Message -----

From: "jsmiller58" jsmiller58@...>

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 6:58 PM

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 3600GTO - El Capitan unveiled at AIC





> Great points Niels!

>

> As to filling the steel pipe - only the bottom of the pipe had some

> concrete go into it from below. However, there isn't much concrete in

> the pipe. I purposely chose to not have much concrete put in the pipe

> due to (a) desire to have the option to shorten up the pipe as needed,

> and (b) a long article on this (I think on Cloudy Nights) where it was

> mathematically demonstrated that for a sufficiently strong pipe

> (meaning wall strength) what is most important is the pier diameter,

> and not whether the pipe is full of concrete... Having said all of

> this, if it makes a difference, until late November when the actual

> observatory gets built around the pier, it will be easy for me to fill

> the pipe with more concrete, so I am open to the idea!!

>

> I had exactly the same worry about the flatness of the plate, and

> exchanged some mail had a phone call as well as with Howard at AP

> about this. He wasn't very worried about the level nature of the

> plate at all - indicating that this is a very overrated concern and

> that he was able to get very good polar alignment when purposely

> putting the plate way off level in the field... Nonetheless, I have

> already discussed this with my contractor and he assures me that the

> welder can do a very good job of getting the plate welded quite flat.

>

> So, combining the assurance that being perfectly level is no big deal

> with the assurance that we can in fact get quite level, all in all,

> not too worried, yet... Now, if I spend the next 2 months trying to

> get a good polar alignment for astro-photography... well... :-)

>

> James

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "nfoldager" nf@...> wrote:

>>

>>

>> James,

>>

>> > - The steel pipe extends another 42" above the surface of the

>> > observatory floor. This portion is just the 12" steel tube, and is

>> > the "pier" on which the mount and OTA will be placed.

>>

>> Did you fill anything into the tube?

>>

>> > As to attaching the mount to the pier, I will be welding a

>> > flat plate to the top of the steel tube.

>>

>> Are you sure it is wise to weld it instead of bolt it? There is a

>> danger that the plate will not be flat afterwards.

>>

>> Best regards,

>>

>> Niels Foldager

>>

>

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>



----------------------------

#20000 Nov 19, 2007

In a message dated 11/15/2007 5:51:06 PM Central Standard Time,

egroups@... writes:



> First, from the picture on the A-P web site, it looks like the clutch

> knobs are gone. Does this mount do away with the clutches?





The mount will have clutches. They are operated with large screws that you

can adjust from fully unlocked to various drag levels to fully locked. In the

locked position you will not be able to move the axes.

>

> Second, for robotic operation: does the 3600 have homing sensors like

> the Paramount?



A homing feature will be optional. However, please note that a homing

function is very complicated for a mount that can be driven past the meridian. It may

be that if a homing sensor is ordered, that we have to disable the mount from

going past the meridian. We will also have optional limit switches that

disable all motion beyond a certain point to prevent the scope from striking the

pier.

>

> As much as anything else, I'm interested in the through-the-mount

> wiring capability - I'm ready to upgrade from my 1200 for this feature

> alone!

>



There will be some other options available for precise tracking and remote

operation that will make this mount very useful for advanced imaging. One very

useful accessory will allow the mount to be used in an astrographic

configuration for full 360 degree operation (just like a fork) with no meridian swap

needed.



Roland





**************************************

See what's new at

www.aol.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#20007 Nov 20, 2007

Roland --



I must say I am very impressed with the way your company incorporates

feedback from the field. The new features on the El Capitan sound

great.



On a related note, I just replaced my 5 year-old keypad cable (the

strain-relief was failing), and I noticed that the strain-relief on the

new cable is quite a bit heavier duty. Well done.



-- Jeff.







---------------



From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf Of chris1011@...

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 9:24 PM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: 3600GTO - El Capitan unveiled at AIC







In a message dated 11/15/2007 5:51:06 PM Central Standard Time,

egroups@... mailto:egroups%40bunker-ranch.com>

writes:

.> First, from the picture on the A-P web site, it looks like the

clutch .> knobs are gone. Does this mount do away with the clutches?



.The mount will have clutches. They are operated with large

screws that you

can adjust from fully unlocked to various drag levels to fully

locked. In the

locked position you will not be able to move the axes.

.>

> Second, for robotic operation: does the 3600 have homing

sensors like .> the Paramount?



.A homing feature will be optional. However, please note that a

homing

function is very complicated for a mount that can be driven past

the meridian. It may

be that if a homing sensor is ordered, that we have to disable

the mount from

going past the meridian. We will also have optional limit

switches that

disable all motion beyond a certain point to prevent the scope

from striking the

pier.

.>

> As much as anything else, I'm interested in the

through-the-mount .> wiring capability - I'm ready to upgrade from my 1200 for this

feature .> alone!

>



.There will be some other options available for precise tracking

and remote

operation that will make this mount very useful for advanced

imaging. One very

useful accessory will allow the mount to be used in an

astrographic

configuration for full 360 degree operation (just like a fork)

with no meridian swap

needed.



Roland



**************************************

See what's new at

www.aol.com www.aol.com>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#20025 Nov 21, 2007

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

> > Second, for robotic operation: does the 3600 have homing sensors

like the Paramount?

> A homing feature will be optional. However, please note that a homing

> function is very complicated for a mount that can be driven past the

meridian. It may > be that if a homing sensor is ordered, that we have to disable the

mount from > going past the meridian. We will also have optional limit switches that

> disable all motion beyond a certain point to prevent the scope from

striking the > pier.



I don't understand this bit (I'm not disputing what you're saying; I'm

just saying that I am clueless here ...).



The purpose of the homing feature is simply to establish the alt-az

position of the mount. Once you've established that, the mount can be

driven as usual afterwards. I don't see why homing sensors are

logically any different than resuming from a known "park" position.

(Except, of course, with the homing sensors, you have a true hardware

indication of the known starting point.)



Terry (astrotrf)



----------------------------

#20029 Nov 21, 2007

Will this 360* operation be something we can do with present mounts or maybe

some modifications, and new firmware? Or is this a complete new hardware

configuration as well?



Thanks



----- Original Message -----

From: chris1011@...>

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 1:58 PM

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: 3600GTO - El Capitan unveiled at AIC





> In a message dated 11/21/2007 12:33:32 PM Central Standard Time,

> egroups@... writes:

>

>

> > The purpose of the homing feature is simply to establish the alt-az

> > position of the mount. Once you've established that, the mount can be

> > driven as usual afterwards. I don't see why homing sensors are

> > logically any different than resuming from a known "park" position.

> > (Except, of course, with the homing sensors, you have a true hardware

> > indication of the known starting point.)

> >

>

> The mount already always knows where it is, so no homing feature is needed

is

> everything is operating correctly. The Alt-Az position of the mount is

always

> known in the servo, even when the power is removed - it is known to a very

> high precision. The only purpose that I can see for a homing feature is in

> situations where the mount is lost due to some kind of glitch. If the

mount is

> really lost and does not have it's alt-az bearings, it will not be known

which way

> the axis should rotate - east or west - in order to pick up the location

of

> the sensor. If it rotates the wrong way, and the mount has the ability to

go

> beyond the meridian, then it can very likely run the telescope into the

pier in

> its effort to locate the sensor. Therefore, for this kind of operation we

> woudl need to configure the mount the way everyone else does it and remove

the

> ability to run past the meridian.

>

> In my case, in all the years that I have run my observatory, I have never

had

> the mount get lost, with the exception of times when I have used Sync with

> the scope past the meridian. The mount really was not lost, it was just

> reconfigured with the counterweights now pointing at the object and the

telescope

> doing counterweight duty. In the future we will develop a system that will

allow

> full 360 degree operation for the mount without the limitations of a

normal GEM

> - same as a Fork mount. There are still a couple of things to be worked

out,

> mechanically and software wise, before we can offer this configuration to

the

> users. In that case, a homing feature can work nicely, but for what reason

I

> still am not clear.

>

> Rolando

>

>

> **************************************

> Check out AOL's list of 2007's

> hottest products.

>

> (money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>







----------------------------

#20030 Nov 21, 2007

In a message dated 11/21/2007 1:07:10 PM Central Standard Time, dean@...

writes:



> Will this 360* operation be something we can do with present mounts or

> maybe

> some modifications, and new firmware? Or is this a complete new hardware

> configuration as well?

>



Hardware + software. Hardware because you need to offset the mount so your

scope can clear the pier, software because right now you always get a meridian

swap which would be eliminated in the new astrographic configuration.



Rolando





**************************************

Check out AOL's list of 2007's

hottest products.



(money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#20031 Nov 21, 2007

Will be interesting to see this.



Of course I am hoping to get my new 1200 next week, and am very excited to

be able to go 1-2 hours past the meridian. And now you are talking about a

mount that will never have to do a flip :)



Thanks



----- Original Message -----

From: chris1011@...>

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 2:13 PM

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: 3600GTO - El Capitan unveiled at AIC





> In a message dated 11/21/2007 1:07:10 PM Central Standard Time,

dean@...

> writes:

>

>

> > Will this 360* operation be something we can do with present mounts or

> > maybe

> > some modifications, and new firmware? Or is this a complete new hardware

> > configuration as well?

> >

>

> Hardware + software. Hardware because you need to offset the mount so your

> scope can clear the pier, software because right now you always get a

meridian

> swap which would be eliminated in the new astrographic configuration.

>

> Rolando

>

>

> **************************************

> Check out AOL's list of 2007's

> hottest products.

>

> (money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>



----------------------------

#20043 Nov 22, 2007

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

> In that case, a homing feature can work nicely, but for what reason I

> still am not clear.



But what if some dolt (nominating myself here as first in line)

loosens the clutches and moves the OTA during the daytime, with no

opportunity to sync or rcal or whatever before the evening remote

observing session is to begin?



This is particularly likely to happen to me when changing out scope

configurations ...



Not to mention, of course, as you said, some unanticipated glitch of

unknown origin and low, but perhaps non-zero, probability.



I'm just saying that I'd buy optional homing sensors simply for the

additional peace of mind.



Terry (astrotrf)



----------------------------

#20047 Nov 22, 2007

Hi Roland,

I expect that if you are operating your mount manually or through a

simple planetary program, you may not ever have the mount get lost.

However; if you operate remotely in an automated environment, you are

going to have the mount get lost. There are so many indeterminate

failure modes of all the software and the computers, that it is very

likely that you will have this happen. It has happened twice to me.

Once when a Windows error caused a freeze and then reboot during the

night. A second time was when an error between two programs stopped a

CCDCommander action and the mount eventually hit the pier. Both

instances caused the mount to hit the pier, clutches to slip, and

mount to get lost.

Thanks, Rick

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 11/21/2007 12:33:32 PM Central Standard Time,

> egroups@... writes:

>

>

> > The purpose of the homing feature is simply to establish the alt-

az

> > position of the mount. Once you've established that, the mount

can be

> > driven as usual afterwards. I don't see why homing sensors are

> > logically any different than resuming from a known "park"

position.

> > (Except, of course, with the homing sensors, you have a true

hardware

> > indication of the known starting point.)

> >

>

> The mount already always knows where it is, so no homing feature is

needed is

> everything is operating correctly. The Alt-Az position of the mount

is always

> known in the servo, even when the power is removed - it is known to

a very

> high precision. The only purpose that I can see for a homing

feature is in

> situations where the mount is lost due to some kind of glitch. If

the mount is

> really lost and does not have it's alt-az bearings, it will not be

known which way

> the axis should rotate - east or west - in order to pick up the

location of

> the sensor. If it rotates the wrong way, and the mount has the

ability to go

> beyond the meridian, then it can very likely run the telescope into

the pier in

> its effort to locate the sensor. Therefore, for this kind of

operation we

> woudl need to configure the mount the way everyone else does it and

remove the

> ability to run past the meridian.

>

> In my case, in all the years that I have run my observatory, I have

never had

> the mount get lost, with the exception of times when I have used

Sync with

> the scope past the meridian. The mount really was not lost, it was

just

> reconfigured with the counterweights now pointing at the object and

the telescope

> doing counterweight duty. In the future we will develop a system

that will allow

> full 360 degree operation for the mount without the limitations of

a normal GEM

> - same as a Fork mount. There are still a couple of things to be

worked out,

> mechanically and software wise, before we can offer this

configuration to the

> users. In that case, a homing feature can work nicely, but for what

reason I

> still am not clear.

>

> Rolando

>

>

> **************************************

> Check out AOL's list of 2007's

> hottest products.

>

> (money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?

NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>







----------------------------

#20091 Nov 26, 2007

In a message dated 11/23/2007 12:09:09 AM Central Standard Time,

rickwiggins@... writes:



> Hi Roland,

> I expect that if you are operating your mount manually or through a

> simple planetary program, you may not ever have the mount get lost.

> However; if you operate remotely in an automated environment, you are

> going to have the mount get lost. There are so many indeterminate

> failure modes of all the software and the computers, that it is very

> likely that you will have this happen. It has happened twice to me.

> Once when a Windows error caused a freeze and then reboot during the

> night. A second time was when an error between two programs stopped a

> CCDCommander action and the mount eventually hit the pier. Both

> instances caused the mount to hit the pier, clutches to slip, and

> mount to get lost.

> Thanks, Rick

>



The problem is this: Once the mount is lost, which way should the axes move

in order to find the homing signal? east or west?



For a mount which cannot track through the meridian, this question is simple.

For a mount that we make with clutches and the ability to track through the

meridian, this is not so simple.



By the way, the 3600 can be permanently locked down in one position if need

be. The clutches will not slip. Another option will be for the astrographic

configuration where your scope cannot hit the pier and can swing freely through

360 degrees in RA.



Finally, although your command programs might mess up and your computer might

fail, the servo always knows where it is. therefore, a simple RA/Dec command

to the servo will result in proper positioning, regardless of failures in the

commanding software. Only a failure in the servo electronics or an improper

Sync will cause the mount to become inoperable.



Hitting the pier in a non-astrographic setup is still a possibility. This can

be eliminated by the use of two switches added to the RA and Dec axis which

define the maximum limits that the scope can track or slew to, and turn off the

power to the servo if these limits are reached. A remote switch added across

the contacts of this power switch can re-activate the servo to allow you to

slew the mount back into safe territory.



Rolando





**************************************

Check out AOL's list of 2007's

hottest products.



(money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#20109 Nov 26, 2007

Hi Roland,

I think the switches may be the beat overall idea. I understand the

issue with the clutches, etc. I have installed one mechanical "kill

switch" that shuts off mount power when the mount slews all the way

below the West horizon. A better design is to have two mechanical

switches that can be set to control maximum East and West slewing.

Thanks, Rick

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 11/23/2007 12:09:09 AM Central Standard Time,

> rickwiggins@... writes:

>

>

> > Hi Roland,

> > I expect that if you are operating your mount manually or

through a

> > simple planetary program, you may not ever have the mount get

lost.

> > However; if you operate remotely in an automated environment,

you are

> > going to have the mount get lost. There are so many

indeterminate

> > failure modes of all the software and the computers, that it is

very

> > likely that you will have this happen. It has happened twice to

me.

> > Once when a Windows error caused a freeze and then reboot during

the

> > night. A second time was when an error between two programs

stopped a

> > CCDCommander action and the mount eventually hit the pier. Both

> > instances caused the mount to hit the pier, clutches to slip,

and

> > mount to get lost.

> > Thanks, Rick

> >

>

> The problem is this: Once the mount is lost, which way should the

axes move

> in order to find the homing signal? east or west?

>

> For a mount which cannot track through the meridian, this question

is simple.

> For a mount that we make with clutches and the ability to track

through the

> meridian, this is not so simple.

>

> By the way, the 3600 can be permanently locked down in one

position if need

> be. The clutches will not slip. Another option will be for the

astrographic

> configuration where your scope cannot hit the pier and can swing

freely through

> 360 degrees in RA.

>

> Finally, although your command programs might mess up and your

computer might

> fail, the servo always knows where it is. therefore, a simple

RA/Dec command

> to the servo will result in proper positioning, regardless of

failures in the

> commanding software. Only a failure in the servo electronics or an

improper

> Sync will cause the mount to become inoperable.

>

> Hitting the pier in a non-astrographic setup is still a

possibility. This can

> be eliminated by the use of two switches added to the RA and Dec

axis which

> define the maximum limits that the scope can track or slew to, and

turn off the

> power to the servo if these limits are reached. A remote switch

added across

> the contacts of this power switch can re-activate the servo to

allow you to

> slew the mount back into safe territory.

>

> Rolando

>

>

> **************************************

> Check out AOL's list of 2007's

> hottest products.

>

> (money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?

NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>







----------------------------

#20114 Nov 27, 2007

I do know someone interesting in ordering one of these, do you have a

date in mind when they are avaiable. dean



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Wiggins" rickwiggins@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Roland,

> I think the switches may be the beat overall idea. I understand the

> issue with the clutches, etc. I have installed one mechanical "kill

> switch" that shuts off mount power when the mount slews all the way

> below the West horizon. A better design is to have two mechanical

> switches that can be set to control maximum East and West slewing.

> Thanks, Rick

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@ wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 11/23/2007 12:09:09 AM Central Standard Time,

> > rickwiggins@ writes:

> >

> >

> > > Hi Roland,

> > > I expect that if you are operating your mount manually or

> through a

> > > simple planetary program, you may not ever have the mount get

> lost.

> > > However; if you operate remotely in an automated environment,

> you are

> > > going to have the mount get lost. There are so many

> indeterminate

> > > failure modes of all the software and the computers, that it is

> very

> > > likely that you will have this happen. It has happened twice to

> me.

> > > Once when a Windows error caused a freeze and then reboot

during

> the

> > > night. A second time was when an error between two programs

> stopped a

> > > CCDCommander action and the mount eventually hit the pier. Both

> > > instances caused the mount to hit the pier, clutches to slip,

> and

> > > mount to get lost.

> > > Thanks, Rick

> > >

> >

> > The problem is this: Once the mount is lost, which way should the

> axes move

> > in order to find the homing signal? east or west?

> >

> > For a mount which cannot track through the meridian, this

question

> is simple.

> > For a mount that we make with clutches and the ability to track

> through the

> > meridian, this is not so simple.

> >

> > By the way, the 3600 can be permanently locked down in one

> position if need

> > be. The clutches will not slip. Another option will be for the

> astrographic

> > configuration where your scope cannot hit the pier and can swing

> freely through

> > 360 degrees in RA.

> >

> > Finally, although your command programs might mess up and your

> computer might

> > fail, the servo always knows where it is. therefore, a simple

> RA/Dec command

> > to the servo will result in proper positioning, regardless of

> failures in the

> > commanding software. Only a failure in the servo electronics or

an

> improper

> > Sync will cause the mount to become inoperable.

> >

> > Hitting the pier in a non-astrographic setup is still a

> possibility. This can

> > be eliminated by the use of two switches added to the RA and Dec

> axis which

> > define the maximum limits that the scope can track or slew to,

and

> turn off the

> > power to the servo if these limits are reached. A remote switch

> added across

> > the contacts of this power switch can re-activate the servo to

> allow you to

> > slew the mount back into safe territory.

> >

> > Rolando

> >

> >

> > **************************************

> > Check out AOL's list of 2007's

> > hottest products.

> >

> > (money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?

> NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>



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