2 star alignment routine


Aug 19, 2000

 


----------------------------

#1320 Aug 19, 2000

Fellow members:

I need some help. My telescope is orthogonal and the north polar

alignment procedure works perfectly. However, the 2-star procedure

consistently brings the two stars selected to the exact same spot

well off the crosshairs. The iterations bring the respective stars

only so close to the crosshairs but no closer. On one try I used two

stars east of the meridian, on another I used one star east of the

meridian and one star west, and on yet another attempt I used two

stars west of the meridian. The results are peculiarly consistent.



Its a 600E, I start with the mount roughly polar aligned, the first

few iterations progress towards alignment but only so far. Each of

the stars used had good "contrast" in RA and DEC, that is, 6 hours

and 40 degrees(Dubhe/Antares) and (Altair/Schedar). I am also

correcting with 1/2 alt/az and the remainder with the buttons.



Any advice please?



Mike Roth



----------------------------

#1327 Aug 20, 2000

This may or may not be the issue for you, but I found with 2-star alignment,

that if one or the other of the adjustments (alt/az) was very close to right

and the other was not, adjusting both of them would lead to an endless cycle

of repetitions without getting any closer to the pole. You can adjust one at

a time to see if it results in an oscillation (moving back and forth across

the crosshairs on successive attempts), and if so it is so close that only

the offset of the other value is keeping it from showing up as correct. Go

and make adjustments to the other value, then when both are close, make your

final adjustments.



Ron Wodaski

The New Astronomy Book Site - www.newastro.com







-----Original Message-----

From: Michael Roth [mailto:maroth@...]

Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2000 6:09 PM

To: ap-gto@egroups.com

Subject: [ap-gto] 2-star alignment routine





Fellow members:

I need some help. My telescope is orthogonal and the north polar

alignment procedure works perfectly. However, the 2-star procedure

consistently brings the two stars selected to the exact same spot

well off the crosshairs. The iterations bring the respective stars

only so close to the crosshairs but no closer. On one try I used two

stars east of the meridian, on another I used one star east of the

meridian and one star west, and on yet another attempt I used two

stars west of the meridian. The results are peculiarly consistent.



Its a 600E, I start with the mount roughly polar aligned, the first

few iterations progress towards alignment but only so far. Each of

the stars used had good "contrast" in RA and DEC, that is, 6 hours

and 40 degrees(Dubhe/Antares) and (Altair/Schedar). I am also

correcting with 1/2 alt/az and the remainder with the buttons.



Any advice please?



Mike Roth



----------------------------

#10719 Sep 13, 2004

Hi Roland -



I guess it was hard for folks to see my tongue in that last post,

tucked as it was, firmly up into my cheek.



I can't say that the 2 star alignment process isn't giving me fits

however. I know I can dial in better alignment using drift methods,

but lazy bones that I am, I keep hoping that the computer can help

me with the process (as advertised.) I'm not looking for

perfect, "center of the chip" alignment mind you. All I really want

is for objects to be within a half-degree radius or so, but after

trying to make it work on at least a half-dozen occasions, I

continue to be frustrated.



On Saturday night I went thru at least fifteen careful iterations of

the process between 2 stars that were seemingly well placed at 10

pm; Altair was high in the southwest near the meridian and Alkaid

was low (but not too low) in the northwest. 40 degrees separate

them in declination and they differ in RA by almost exactly 6 hrs;

they should be perfect candidates. Despite this, there was no

indication whatsoever that I was converging on proper alignment.

Each time I hit "goto", the scope would slew back to a spot just as

far from the other star as the time before. I would dutifully

adjust the mount until half the distance was eliminated, then

continue to center the star using the paddle, whereupon I would

hit "menu" and be prompted to choose my next alignment star. I just

never got any closer to the pole this way.



Is anyone else experiencing this? Better yet, is anyone else using

the 2 star alignment in the latest software revision and having any

success? I'd sure love to hear about it!



Anyway, I'm sorry for having come on so strong in my earlier post.

Sarcastic (but light-hearted) hyperbole doesn't always come across

in the spirit intended. I truly appreciate the lengths to which you

Roland in particular have always gone to ensure that people get the

most from the gear you've produced. I know you've helped ME many

times, going well beyond what could ordinarily be expected of a

business by a customer.



Rob Hunt



----------------------------

#10721 Sep 13, 2004

Hi Rob,



I have given up on internet humor . it never seems funny to my

audience. I guess that's why emoticons were invented.



Regarding two-star alignment, I can't use it because of non-

orthogonality in my scope's mounting. So I spend countless hours

drift aligning and each time I get just a little tiny bet better

aligned.



There is a section on polar aligning non-orthogonal scopes in the

keypad manual, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to do

it. P 46 refers to "pivot" star and I don't yet see how to use the

pivot star and the other two stars to do the alignment. If anyone

can provide a Non-orhogonal-three-star-alignment-for-idiots summary,

I'd greatly appreciate it.



Meanwhile, my crude drift alignment allows for untrailed images of

four to eight minutes duration at 530 mm focal length . it varies

depending on the sector I am imaging in.



Virtually all of my imaging targets are invisible in the eyepiece,

and many are too faint to see in even a one-minute 2x2 binned CCD

image at f/3.3. I always sync on the alpha star in the

constellation in which my target resides and that puts my target

within 30 arc seconds of center on a little 8.3 mm diagonal chip.



Clear skies,



Dennis Persyk

Igloo Observatory Home Page dpersyk.home.att.net

Hampshire, IL



New Images home.att.net/~dpersyk/new.htm

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" turtlepig@y...> wrote:

> Hi Roland -

>

> I guess it was hard for folks to see my tongue in that last post,

> tucked as it was, firmly up into my cheek.

>

> I can't say that the 2 star alignment process isn't giving me fits

> however. I know I can dial in better alignment using drift

methods, but lazy bones that I am, I keep hoping that the computer

can help me with the process (as advertised.) I'm not looking for

> perfect, "center of the chip" alignment mind you. All I really

want is for objects to be within a half-degree radius or so, but

after trying to make it work on at least a half-dozen occasions, I

> continue to be frustrated.

>

> On Saturday night I went thru at least fifteen careful iterations

of the process between 2 stars that were seemingly well placed at

10 pm; Altair was high in the southwest near the meridian and

Alkaid was low (but not too low) in the northwest. 40 degrees

separate them in declination and they differ in RA by almost

exactly 6 hrs; they should be perfect candidates. Despite this,

there was no indication whatsoever that I was converging on proper

alignment. Each time I hit "goto", the scope would slew back to a

spot just as far from the other star as the time before. I would

dutifully adjust the mount until half the distance was eliminated,

then continue to center the star using the paddle, whereupon I

would hit "menu" and be prompted to choose my next alignment star.

I just never got any closer to the pole this way.

>

> Is anyone else experiencing this? Better yet, is anyone else

using the 2 star alignment in the latest software revision and

having any success? I'd sure love to hear about it!

>

> Anyway, I'm sorry for having come on so strong in my earlier

post. Sarcastic (but light-hearted) hyperbole doesn't always come

across in the spirit intended. I truly appreciate the lengths to

which you Roland in particular have always gone to ensure that

people get the most from the gear you've produced. I know you've

helped ME many times, going well beyond what could ordinarily be

expected of a business by a customer.

>

> Rob Hunt







----------------------------

#10724 Sep 14, 2004

Roland wrote:

> The problem may be that Paul is trying to go between two stars on

> opposite sides of the mount.



Not sure if I'm the "Paul" you're referring to but I can promise you

that I've been very careful to ensure that the two stars I've chosen

were each on the side opposite the mount, and that successive

iterations of the two star alignment process never involved flipping

the mount over.

> Actually the button is GoTo, which automatically recalibrates the

> new position for each incremental move.



This is where I am totally confused, because the manual is quite

explicit in laying out the order in which buttons are pressed, and

that the "menu" button is key to the calibration process. From page

19 of the keypad manual:



8. Choose your second star, Again, the Cal Star screen will appear

with the coordinates of your star choice.



9. Press GOTO. The mount will slew [near] to this star.



10. Center star with altitude and azimuth adjusters of the mount.



11. Press Menu to exit this screen. The Choose star screen will

appear.



14. To continue calibration, choose the next star that you want to

slew to.



15. Press GOTO. The mount will slew to this star.



16. Center the star in the eyepiece - half of the distance with the

altitude and azimuth controls and the other half with the buttons.



17. Press Menu to exit this screen. The Choose Star list will appear

again.



18. Choose a star. The Cal Star screen will appear with the

coordinates of your star choice.



19. Press GOTO. The mount will slew to this star. The target star

should appear somewhere in the field of a low to medium power

eyepiece.



20. Center the star in the eyepiece - half of the distance with the

altitude and azimuth controls and the other half with the buttons



21. You can repeat this procedure any number of times until you feel

the mount is properly aligned. Each iteration should bring you

closer to perfect polar alignment.



Note: Each time you press the Menu button during this procedure, you

recalibrate on your current position.



---------------



The thing is, I can't see a way to exit the various screens any

other than the way I do. Am I supposed to throw in an extra "goto"

command before I hit "menu"?

> The better method would be as [Michael] suggests, to use two stars

> N-S with azimuth and E-W (on the same side of the mount)

> with altitude adjustment.



I too like Michael's suggestion for isolating the azimuth adjustment

from that of the altitude, and I can also see the wisdom of

your "preferred method" involving use of a single star and

manipulation of the meridian delay. But I still need to get

straight how to make sure my successive iterations are being

recorded. As it stands, I have no confidence that they are.



Rob Hunt



----------------------------

#10746 Sep 15, 2004

In a message dated 9/14/2004 2:38:49 AM Central Daylight Time,

turtlepig@... writes:



> This is where I am totally confused, because the manual is quite

> explicit in laying out the order in which buttons are pressed, and

> that the "menu" button is key to the calibration process. From page

> 19 of the keypad manual:

>

> 8. Choose your second star, Again, the Cal Star screen will appear

> with the coordinates of your star choice.

>

> 9. Press GOTO. The mount will slew [near] to this star.

>

> 10. Center star with altitude and azimuth adjusters of the mount.

>

> 11. Press Menu to exit this screen. The Choose star screen will

> .............................. etc etc etc etc.



OK, sorry for calling you Paul, Mr. Turtle. This routine is exactly correct

and can be used to home in on the pole. However, you can modify this routine

slightly for easier results. First you choose Star #1, center it in your

eyepiece via the buttons, then go to star #2 and center it half way via the buttons

and half way with the Altitude and azimuth adjusters. When you press Menu, this

new position of the star is automatically calibrated in the keypad and servo

- I guarantee it (in fact, if you don't believe, you can bring up The Sky or

other planetarium program and see the cursor jump back to the star when you

exit via Menu).



Now, since you did do an adjustment that brought the second star at least

half way to the crosshair, you should have made some improvement to the polar

alignment (unless you went further away instead of closer to the crosshair, but I

don't believe you woudl do that, yes?). So, now if you do this same routine

again, you should see an improvement.



Second iteration, pick Star #1 again and slew to it via GoTo. Now, it will

not be on the crosshair, so place it there via the buttons alone, NO MOUNT

ADJUSTMENT on this star. We are going to use Star #1 as a sort of pivot, around

which we will turn the mount axes. Making the mount adjustment on both stars

places this pivot in the center between them, but in your case this has not

worked, at least not for the two stars in question. After placing the star on the

crosshairs via the buttons alone, press Menu, which will automatically recal the

system to that star position.



Next iteration, repeat star #2 with both button and mount mechanical axes

adjustment - part way for each.



If this does not work, I will eat my shoe.



Roland Christen











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#10748 Sep 15, 2004

Is this the procedure for a scope that is not orthogonal to the

mount?



Dennis

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 9/14/2004 2:38:49 AM Central Daylight Time,

> turtlepig@y... writes:

>

>

> > This is where I am totally confused, because the manual is quite

> > explicit in laying out the order in which buttons are pressed,

and that the "menu" button is key to the calibration process. From

page 19 of the keypad manual:

> >

> > 8. Choose your second star, Again, the Cal Star screen will

appear with the coordinates of your star choice.

> >

> > 9. Press GOTO. The mount will slew [near] to this star.

> >

> > 10. Center star with altitude and azimuth adjusters of the

mount.

> >

> > 11. Press Menu to exit this screen. The Choose star screen will

> > .............................. etc etc etc etc.

>

> OK, sorry for calling you Paul, Mr. Turtle. This routine is

exactly correct and can be used to home in on the pole. However,

you can modify this routine slightly for easier results. First you

choose Star #1, center it in your eyepiece via the buttons, then go

to star #2 and center it half way via the buttons

> and half way with the Altitude and azimuth adjusters. When you

press Menu, this new position of the star is automatically

calibrated in the keypad and servo

> - I guarantee it (in fact, if you don't believe, you can bring up

The Sky or other planetarium program and see the cursor jump back

to the star when you

> exit via Menu).

>

> Now, since you did do an adjustment that brought the second star

at least half way to the crosshair, you should have made some

improvement to the polar alignment (unless you went further away

instead of closer to the crosshair, but I don't believe you woudl

do that, yes?). So, now if you do this same routine

> again, you should see an improvement.

>

> Second iteration, pick Star #1 again and slew to it via GoTo. Now,

it will not be on the crosshair, so place it there via the buttons

alone, NO MOUNT ADJUSTMENT on this star. We are going to use Star

#1 as a sort of pivot, around which we will turn the mount axes.

Making the mount adjustment on both stars places this pivot in the

center between them, but in your case this has not

> worked, at least not for the two stars in question. After placing

the star on the crosshairs via the buttons alone, press Menu, which

will automatically recal the system to that star position.

>

> Next iteration, repeat star #2 with both button and mount

mechanical axes adjustment - part way for each.

>

> If this does not work, I will eat my shoe.

>

> Roland Christen

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#10750 Sep 16, 2004

In a message dated 9/15/2004 9:56:26 PM Central Daylight Time,

dpersyk@... writes:



> Is this the procedure for a scope that is not orthogonal to the

> mount?

>



There are many procedures that can be used. This 2 star alignment is only one

tool. Other effective tools use the overhead star method which can use the 2

star alignment routine also. The overhead star method results in rapid

alignment of the altitude axis, almost totally independent of the azimuth axis and

independent of any orthogonal error. Whether a scope is orthogonal or not, the

mount can be successfully polar aligned using the 2 star routine. It just

depends on how you use this routine.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#10801 Sep 26, 2004

Help: setting park pos .with keypad after 2-star alignment

---------------

First:

A:Polar-alignment.

B:I folowing the instruktion: setting both the axes to be level with

the ground)



1: power on

2:using resume from ref-park1

3:doing 2 star alignment with sucess

(using the instruction: grasp the telescope by hand and move and

center 1 star i in the eyepiece choosing second star pressing go-to

center 2 star with N-S-E-W buttoms fine-centering with altitude and

azimuth adjusters.)



Every thing fine here..................slewing to other objects OK



5:parking: using setup menu:4 Park/mount options: 1,=Mount Park

the mount does not park om tbe right position (level with

ground)as set at the start.



what did I do wrong?

--------------------



What is the right after alignment> Park procedure?

there are not a "set park pos" in the setup menu



Also

I try to power off the mount

manualy level both axes

A: power on the mount

B: resume from park1

Then again I need to calibrate or sync again



regard

Soren DK



----------------------------

#10808 Sep 27, 2004

In a message dated 9/26/2004 1:57:53 PM Central Daylight Time,

Soeren.Jessen@... writes:



>

> 5:parking: using setup menu:4 Park/mount options: 1,=Mount Park

> the mount does not park om tbe right position (level with

> ground)as set at the start.

>

> what did I do wrong?

>



You have either a wrong location number or wrong time data in the keypad.

Wrong time is usually the wrong daylight savings number.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#10812 Sep 27, 2004

Hi roland



well that how it looks:



Copenhagen Denmark

EAST:

longitude 12 degree

minutes 35

seconds 0



NORTH:

latitude 55 degree

minutes 40

Seconds 0



Keypad:

from setup menu

1 site location Data:

--------------------

location (1-9) 1

long: E 012:35:00

Lat: N 55:40:00

Time Zone: 01



2=Set Date & Time

------------------



TIME: 20:32:07

DATE: 09/27/2007

Daylight Savings: 1 (summer)



Back to Main Menu:

------------------

4=Time/Lst:

TIME: 20:35:11

DATE: 09:27:2004

GMT: 18:32:07

LST: 19:52 LOC:1



does look right to you?



Soeren DK

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 9/26/2004 1:57:53 PM Central Daylight Time,

> Soeren.Jessen@i... writes:

>

>

> >

> > 5:parking: using setup menu:4 Park/mount options: 1,=Mount Park

> > the mount does not park om tbe right position (level with

> > ground)as set at the start.

> >

> > what did I do wrong?

> >

>

> You have either a wrong location number or wrong time data in the

keypad.

> Wrong time is usually the wrong daylight savings number.

>

> Roland Christen

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#10813 Sep 27, 2004

In a message dated 9/27/2004 1:54:28 PM Central Daylight Time,

Soeren.Jessen@... writes:



> Hi roland

>

> well that how it looks:

>

> Copenhagen Denmark

> EAST:

> longitude 12 degree

> minutes 35

> seconds 0

>

> NORTH:

> latitude 55 degree

> minutes 40

> Seconds 0

>

> Keypad:

> from setup menu

> 1 site location Data:

> --------------------

> location (1-9) 1

> long: E 012:35:00

> Lat: N 55:40:00

> Time Zone: 01

>

> 2=Set Date & Time

> ------------------

>

> TIME: 20:32:07

> DATE: 09/27/2007

> Daylight Savings: 1 (summer)

>

> Back to Main Menu:

> ------------------

> 4=Time/Lst:

> TIME: 20:35:11

> DATE: 09:27:2004

> GMT: 18:32:07

> LST: 19:52 LOC:1

>

> does look right to you?

>

>



It will be difficult to recreate your local conditions, but I will try to

check it out with your numbers. In the meantime, any offset in the horizontal

position of the three park positions is simply a difference between the entered

time and the real astronomical time of your present position, assuming that the

longitude is correct. For every 1 hour of time difference, the mount will

park your scope away from horizontal by 15 degrees. You can see that on your RA

setting circle. Mark the point on the circle where your park position is, and

then check the position on the circle where the axis would be perfectly

horizontal. If that RA difference is 1 hour, then simply change your clock time by

that amount. Then re-park the scope. The mount will then go to the new park

position (hopefully horizontal). If it goes further away, then change the clock

time by 1 hour the other way (subtract instead of add, etc.). I have found that

for my location I have to change my local time (as reported by the local radio

station) by about 12 minutes to get the mount to park exactly horizontal.



Please remember that the only function of the location and clock time is to

provide the proper horizon limits, meridian swap points and reference park

position. Regardless of location or clock errors, there is no effect on pointing

to stellar objects once you have located and synced on the first star.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#10818 Sep 27, 2004

What version of the keypad are you using? Please load version 4.12. Prior versions have problems with E longitude locations.



Clear skies,

Marj Christen

Astro-Physics, Inc.

11250 Forest Hills Road

Rockford, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

Fax: 815-282-9847

www.astro-physics.com

Please include this e-mail with your response.



>-----Original Message-----

>From: densjdk [mailto:Soeren.Jessen@...]

>Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 1:52 PM

>To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

>Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Help: setting park pos .with keypad after 2-star

>alignment

>

>

>Hi roland

>

>well that how it looks:

>

>Copenhagen Denmark

>EAST:

>longitude 12 degree

>minutes 35

>seconds 0

>

>NORTH:

>latitude 55 degree

>minutes 40

>Seconds 0

>

>Keypad:

>from setup menu

>1 site location Data:

>--------------------

>location (1-9) 1

>long: E 012:35:00

>Lat: N 55:40:00

>Time Zone: 01

>

>2=Set Date & Time

>------------------

>

>TIME: 20:32:07

>DATE: 09/27/2007

>Daylight Savings: 1 (summer)

>

>Back to Main Menu:

>------------------

>4=Time/Lst:

>TIME: 20:35:11

>DATE: 09:27:2004

>GMT: 18:32:07

>LST: 19:52 LOC:1

>

>does look right to you?

>

>Soeren DK

>

>--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@a... wrote:

>> In a message dated 9/26/2004 1:57:53 PM Central Daylight Time,

>> Soeren.Jessen@i... writes:

>>

>>

>> >

>> > 5:parking: using setup menu:4 Park/mount options: 1,=Mount Park

>> > the mount does not park om tbe right position (level with

>> > ground)as set at the start.

>> >

>> > what did I do wrong?

>> >

>>

>> You have either a wrong location number or wrong time data in the

>keypad.

>> Wrong time is usually the wrong daylight savings number.

>>

>> Roland Christen

>>

>>

>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

>see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

>Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

>







----------------------------

#10820 Sep 27, 2004

Roland said:



"OK, sorry for calling you Paul, Mr. Turtle (but) if this does not

work, I will eat my shoe."



Looks like you can skip the filet du sole terrapin. The modified 2-

star alignment routine you suggested did the trick for me

beautifully. I was already fairly close when I set up this time but

it was obvious with each iteration back to the 2nd star that I was

converging on the pole. After 3 or 4 cycles the target stars were

no more than 8 or 9 arcminutes from the center of the field, and

objects at all points of the sky were consistently in the eyepiece.

10 hours later I was finding stars in broad daylight. So thank you.



Reading over these archives a bit, it's pretty clear you've been

good enough to repeat some of these things dozens and dozens of

times. There must be SOME way to index this forum or at least

improve what has to be the WORST search feature I've ever seen.

Other Yahoo groups have imported outside search engines but I'm not

sure how well they work. Does anyone know of an efficient way to

extract the solid technical advice that's locked in these archives?



Rob Hunt



----------------------------

#10821 Sep 27, 2004

Yes, as soon as I get my act together we can use a great free search service

by Al Degustis at skyinsight.net/indexstd.php?search/search.php



Derek





-----Original Message-----

From: Robert [mailto:turtlepig@...]

Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 7:54 PM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 2 Star Alignment



Roland said:



Does anyone know of an efficient way to

extract the solid technical advice that's locked in these archives?



Rob Hunt









To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

Yahoo! Groups Links



----------------------------

#10824 Sep 28, 2004

Hi Marj Christen

Already done weeks ago.



I noticed that:

after finishing an evening session

and slewing both axes with the keypad to park pos 1

-without using setup-menu park option

-just powering off



Then after powering on again, and chose resume from ref-park1

the following park command from setup-menu park 1 -works OK



The manual is confusing me with telling: to "grasp the mount by hand"

doing first star in 2 star alignment.

It is then after: parking from setup-menu goes wrong.



Maybe: if I instead slew to the first star using NSEW on keypad

doing 2 star alignment The parking pos 1 will

remains where it was set -before 2 star alignment?



Do I read the manual wrong (2 star alignment)



Soeren DK

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Marjorie Christen" marj@a...> wrote:

> What version of the keypad are you using? Please load version

4.12. Prior versions have problems with E longitude locations.

>

> Clear skies,

> Marj Christen

> Astro-Physics, Inc.

> 11250 Forest Hills Road

> Rockford, IL 61115

> Phone: 815-282-1513

> Fax: 815-282-9847

> www.astro-physics.com

> Please include this e-mail with your response.

>

>

> >-----Original Message-----

> >From: densjdk [mailto:Soeren.Jessen@i...]

> >Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 1:52 PM

> >To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> >Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Help: setting park pos .with keypad after 2-

star

> >alignment

> >

> >

> >Hi roland

> >

> >well that how it looks:

> >

> >Copenhagen Denmark

> >EAST:

> >longitude 12 degree

> >minutes 35

> >seconds 0

> >

> >NORTH:

> >latitude 55 degree

> >minutes 40

> >Seconds 0

> >

> >Keypad:

> >from setup menu

> >1 site location Data:

> >--------------------

> >location (1-9) 1

> >long: E 012:35:00

> >Lat: N 55:40:00

> >Time Zone: 01

> >

> >2=Set Date & Time

> >------------------

> >

> >TIME: 20:32:07

> >DATE: 09/27/2007

> >Daylight Savings: 1 (summer)

> >

> >Back to Main Menu:

> >------------------

> >4=Time/Lst:

> >TIME: 20:35:11

> >DATE: 09:27:2004

> >GMT: 18:32:07

> >LST: 19:52 LOC:1

> >

> >does look right to you?

> >

> >Soeren DK

> >

> >--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@a... wrote:

> >> In a message dated 9/26/2004 1:57:53 PM Central Daylight Time,

> >> Soeren.Jessen@i... writes:

> >>

> >>

> >> >

> >> > 5:parking: using setup menu:4 Park/mount options: 1,=Mount

Park

> >> > the mount does not park om tbe right position (level with

> >> > ground)as set at the start.

> >> >

> >> > what did I do wrong?

> >> >

> >>

> >> You have either a wrong location number or wrong time data in

the

> >keypad.

> >> Wrong time is usually the wrong daylight savings number.

> >>

> >> Roland Christen

> >>

> >>

> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> >see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

> >Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >







----------------------------

#28234 Jun 13, 2010

What am I doing wrong? I've used the "quick alignment method" in th past with good success, but it leaves the finder misaligned with the main scope. Now I'm trying the 2-star method. Appendix I, which is supposed to be a list of suitable stars, contains stars that aren't in the hand controller's database (e.g. Eta Draconis). Also, right now I'm trying to align on Algieba (Leo) for my second star. It's in the western sky. When I try to center it with the alt & azimuth adjustments on the mount (Mach1), both adjustments do exactly the same thing. I ran into this the other night. They both adjust the altitude. What am I missing?



----------------------------

#28244 Jun 14, 2010

OK, I think I understand. When you have finished the polar alignment,

go to a star and center it in your main instrument. Then do another

Recalibrate. From that point on, it is your main scope that should be

dead on, and your finder that will be off, unless you realign it with

the main tube. The only remaining issue in GoTos will be

orthogonality, and that should only be an issue when you slew across the

meridian.







Mag. 7 skies!







Howard Hedlund



Astro-Physics, Inc.



815-282-1513



---------------



From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

Of CurtisC

Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 1:20 PM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 2 star alignment









> The 2-Star method in the keypad will never be as accurate as the

Revised > GTO Quick Star Drift Method...etc.



For me (using two different scopes), the "quick" method results in the

finder and main scope being in sufficient disagreement that the star is

*not* usually on the CCD chip, even though it's centered in the finder.

If I were using the scope visually, I'd see the star in the main scope,

and then I'd center it and adjust the finder to agree. With the CCD (not

the biggest available chip: SBIG ST-2000XM), I have to hunt around to

find the star. I.e., there's still work to be done once the mount is

polar aligned.











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#35592 Mar 8, 2012

After a few months now I am still struggling to get the polar alignment that I think I should be getting.



Last night I decided to try some imaging despite the intensity of the moon. May be I am a lunatic (ha) but I wanted to get outside and try, come what may to get some Horsehead shots.



This is my polar alignment sequence



1. Align using Polar Scope. (did this quite carefully; I took my time)

2. Using software (Backyard EOS) drift align screen, and the ASCOM driver, I accurately centred my scope on Betelgeuse.

3. On the keypad I chose the 2 Star Alignment method.

4. For the first star I chose Betelgeuse.

5. I pressed GOTO. (mount did not move as expected)

6. Because of the moon and some cirrus cloud, I was short on visible stars. but I decided for better or worse to choose Alkaid.

6. I pressed GOTO

7. The mount slewed towards Alkaid, but it did not appear anywhere on my DSLRs chip.



I'm surprised it is so far off after my careful use of the polar scope.



8. Using the Alt and Az screws I manually move the star into the view of my DSLR, and then finely centre it in Backyard EOS.



Should be close-ish to good alignment now? I decide to see what a few more iterations of the steps above will give me.



9. On the Keypad I choose Betelgeuse.

10. I press GTO.

11. The mount slews to Betelgeuse.



This time the star is on the DSLR chip but only just.



12. Using the ASCOM driver I accurately centre Betelgeuse.

13. For the second star I choose Alkaid once more.

14. The mount slewed towards Alkaid, this time the star is a little nearer to the centre of the camera's chip but still a long way off.

15. Using the Alt and Az screws I finely centre Alkaid in Backyard EOS



I did two more iterations but never really got anywhere near the centre when slewing between stars. I just seemed to be oscillating back and forth without getting any more accuracy.



Other info that might Help explain my problem: Imaging from southern UK. Scope FL=432 with 0.8x flattener.



Sorry for the long winded post but I hope that someone can spot my mistake.



----------------------------

#35597 Mar 8, 2012

Hi,



The two methods for polar alignment ( N Polar & Two-star) that are in the keypad are NOT intended to produce imaging-ready alignments. They are quick methods to get the mount close enough for GoTos when observing visually. Because they are very much affected by orthogonality, they are often LESS accurate than a well done polar scope alignment. The revised GTO Quick Drift Method can be a bit more accurate than the polar scope, and classic drift alignment or PEMPro's Polar Alignment Wizard take that even one step further.



Mag. 7 Skies!



Howard Hedlund

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone: 815-282-1513

www.astro-physics.comwww.astro-physics.com/>

Please include this e-mail with your response.



P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.





From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wellcoordinated

Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 3:43 AM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [ap-gto] Struggling with two 2 Star Alignment







After a few months now I am still struggling to get the polar alignment that I think I should be getting.



Last night I decided to try some imaging despite the intensity of the moon. May be I am a lunatic (ha) but I wanted to get outside and try, come what may to get some Horsehead shots.



This is my polar alignment sequence



1. Align using Polar Scope. (did this quite carefully; I took my time)

2. Using software (Backyard EOS) drift align screen, and the ASCOM driver, I accurately centred my scope on Betelgeuse.

3. On the keypad I chose the 2 Star Alignment method.

4. For the first star I chose Betelgeuse.

5. I pressed GOTO. (mount did not move as expected)

6. Because of the moon and some cirrus cloud, I was short on visible stars. but I decided for better or worse to choose Alkaid.

6. I pressed GOTO

7. The mount slewed towards Alkaid, but it did not appear anywhere on my DSLRs chip.



I'm surprised it is so far off after my careful use of the polar scope.



8. Using the Alt and Az screws I manually move the star into the view of my DSLR, and then finely centre it in Backyard EOS.



Should be close-ish to good alignment now? I decide to see what a few more iterations of the steps above will give me.



9. On the Keypad I choose Betelgeuse.

10. I press GTO.

11. The mount slews to Betelgeuse.



This time the star is on the DSLR chip but only just.



12. Using the ASCOM driver I accurately centre Betelgeuse.

13. For the second star I choose Alkaid once more.

14. The mount slewed towards Alkaid, this time the star is a little nearer to the centre of the camera's chip but still a long way off.

15. Using the Alt and Az screws I finely centre Alkaid in Backyard EOS



I did two more iterations but never really got anywhere near the centre when slewing between stars. I just seemed to be oscillating back and forth without getting any more accuracy.



Other info that might Help explain my problem: Imaging from southern UK. Scope FL=432 with 0.8x flattener.



Sorry for the long winded post but I hope that someone can spot my mistake.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#35600 Mar 8, 2012

Forget the 2 star alignment method and use the Qick Drift method. It is

easier, faster and more accurate. Works every time and gets you very close to

perfect polar alignment without using any other accessories. All you need is

a finderscope with crosshair reticle.



Rolando



In a message dated 3/8/2012 3:47:24 AM Central Standard Time,

corso.tim@... writes:



> After a few months now I am still struggling to get the polar alignment

> that I think I should be getting.

>

> Last night I decided to try some imaging despite the intensity of the

> moon. May be I am a lunatic (ha) but I wanted to get outside and try, come what

> may to get some Horsehead shots.

>

> This is my polar alignment sequence

>

> 1. Align using Polar Scope. (did this quite carefully; I took my time)

> 2. Using software (Backyard EOS) drift align screen, and the ASCOM driver,

> I accurately centred my scope on Betelgeuse.

> 3. On the keypad I chose the 2 Star Alignment method.

> 4. For the first star I chose Betelgeuse.

> 5. I pressed GOTO. (mount did not move as expected)

> 6. Because of the moon and some cirrus cloud, I was short on visible

> stars. but I decided for better or worse to choose Alkaid.

> 6. I pressed GOTO

> 7. The mount slewed towards Alkaid, but it did not appear anywhere on my

> DSLRs chip.

>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#35601 Mar 8, 2012

If you don't want to break your neck, right angle finder scope with

illuminated reticle would be more comfortable since the scope would be

pointed to near Zenith. I love Quick Drift Alignment. Like Rolando said,

it's "Quick" and accurate and no fancy software tools needed.



Peter

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

>

> Forget the 2 star alignment method and use the Qick Drift method. It

is

> easier, faster and more accurate. Works every time and gets you very

close to

> perfect polar alignment without using any other accessories. All you

need is

> a finderscope with crosshair reticle.

>

> Rolando

>

> In a message dated 3/8/2012 3:47:24 AM Central Standard Time,

> corso.tim@... writes:

>

>

> > After a few months now I am still struggling to get the polar

alignment

> > that I think I should be getting.

> >

> > Last night I decided to try some imaging despite the intensity of

the

> > moon. May be I am a lunatic (ha) but I wanted to get outside and

try, come what

> > may to get some Horsehead shots.

> >

> > This is my polar alignment sequence

> >

> > 1. Align using Polar Scope. (did this quite carefully; I took my

time)

> > 2. Using software (Backyard EOS) drift align screen, and the ASCOM

driver,

> > I accurately centred my scope on Betelgeuse.

> > 3. On the keypad I chose the 2 Star Alignment method.

> > 4. For the first star I chose Betelgeuse.

> > 5. I pressed GOTO. (mount did not move as expected)

> > 6. Because of the moon and some cirrus cloud, I was short on visible

> > stars. but I decided for better or worse to choose Alkaid.

> > 6. I pressed GOTO

> > 7. The mount slewed towards Alkaid, but it did not appear anywhere

on my

> > DSLRs chip.

> >

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



----------------------------

#35617 Mar 8, 2012

Thanks Rolando,



I did not realise that 2 star was only an approximate method.



The quick drift method seems a bit more complex and I have to admit it is something I have difficulty committing to memory. I guess it;s one of those things that one you have done it a few times it becomes second nature.



For others reading this post I do not have a guide camera (may be later this year) so any solution that involves a guide cam is not available to me.



Thanks again --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

>

> Forget the 2 star alignment method and use the Qick Drift method. It is

> easier, faster and more accurate. Works every time and gets you very close to

> perfect polar alignment without using any other accessories. All you need is

> a finderscope with crosshair reticle.

>

> Rolando

>

> In a message dated 3/8/2012 3:47:24 AM Central Standard Time,

> corso.tim@... writes:

>

>

> > After a few months now I am still struggling to get the polar alignment

> > that I think I should be getting.

> >

> > Last night I decided to try some imaging despite the intensity of the

> > moon. May be I am a lunatic (ha) but I wanted to get outside and try, come what

> > may to get some Horsehead shots.

> >

> > This is my polar alignment sequence

> >

> > 1. Align using Polar Scope. (did this quite carefully; I took my time)

> > 2. Using software (Backyard EOS) drift align screen, and the ASCOM driver,

> > I accurately centred my scope on Betelgeuse.

> > 3. On the keypad I chose the 2 Star Alignment method.

> > 4. For the first star I chose Betelgeuse.

> > 5. I pressed GOTO. (mount did not move as expected)

> > 6. Because of the moon and some cirrus cloud, I was short on visible

> > stars. but I decided for better or worse to choose Alkaid.

> > 6. I pressed GOTO

> > 7. The mount slewed towards Alkaid, but it did not appear anywhere on my

> > DSLRs chip.

> >

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>







----------------------------

#35621 Mar 8, 2012

In a message dated 3/8/2012 4:16:30 PM Central Standard Time,

corso.tim@... writes:



> The quick drift method seems a bit more complex and I have to admit it is

> something I have difficulty committing to memory.



Once you do this method, you will discover how really simple it is. It will

become intuitive, and there is nothing about it to commit to memory. It is

difficult to explain the steps, but it is exceedingly simple to do.



Basically you acquire a star straight up and use it as a pivot point. You

then use the power of the GoTo computer to set the two axes to their proper

angles. You use a simple 8x50 finder to do this routine, you don't even need

a scope on your mount, and you can get well within 30 arc sec of the pole

without even trying.



I have developed another quick method to polar align in the daytime that

uses no stars to set the altitude axis. All you need for this is a simple

Carpenter's bubble level. You go back and forth between Park1 and Park2,

leveling the counterweight shaft in Park 2, and leveling the scope body in Park1.

This will set the altitude axis within a few arc minutes of the pole in

daylight, before any stars are visible.



You can even set the azimuth axis using the sun if you wish, or wait until

dusk to set azimuth. That way you do not waste precious dark time doing

initial polar alignment, and you just need to touch it up using any of the

traditional methods as needed. In fact, I have used this method successfully to

find stars in the daytime and actually finished drift alignment of the mount

at noon in full daylight. Many times I used this method without doing any

drift alignment, and was able to image quite successfully all night long

without touching the adjustments at all.



Rolando



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#35653 Mar 11, 2012

Hi Rolando,



I tried the quick drift method this evening. I took the keypad pdf with me to my imaging site so that I could run through the instructions exactly as given. Unfortunately I could not get beyond step 3. I could set the advance meridian value east or west no problem I also carefully checked the RA and LST values to make sure I was advancing the meridian in the right direction. My problem seemed to come from the last sentence on step 3



"Press RA/DEC/REV to return to the Objects Menu."



Pressing this button after doing the calibrate and then the meridian advance did not return me to the objects menu. The only way I could get to that menu was to select the menu button. This then allowed me to select my star from the object>stars, but the scope did not flip sides.



I tried this several times with stars on each side of the meridian, but every time I had a the same problem.



Probably a schoolboy error on my part, but I would be grateful for a little guidance.



Thanks for your help



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 3/8/2012 4:16:30 PM Central Standard Time,

> corso.tim@... writes:

>

>

> > The quick drift method seems a bit more complex and I have to admit it is

> > something I have difficulty committing to memory.

>

> Once you do this method, you will discover how really simple it is. It will

> become intuitive, and there is nothing about it to commit to memory. It is

> difficult to explain the steps, but it is exceedingly simple to do.

>

> Basically you acquire a star straight up and use it as a pivot point. You

> then use the power of the GoTo computer to set the two axes to their proper

> angles. You use a simple 8x50 finder to do this routine, you don't even need

> a scope on your mount, and you can get well within 30 arc sec of the pole

> without even trying.

>

> I have developed another quick method to polar align in the daytime that

> uses no stars to set the altitude axis. All you need for this is a simple

> Carpenter's bubble level. You go back and forth between Park1 and Park2,

> leveling the counterweight shaft in Park 2, and leveling the scope body in Park1.

> This will set the altitude axis within a few arc minutes of the pole in

> daylight, before any stars are visible.

>

> You can even set the azimuth axis using the sun if you wish, or wait until

> dusk to set azimuth. That way you do not waste precious dark time doing

> initial polar alignment, and you just need to touch it up using any of the

> traditional methods as needed. In fact, I have used this method successfully to

> find stars in the daytime and actually finished drift alignment of the mount

> at noon in full daylight. Many times I used this method without doing any

> drift alignment, and was able to image quite successfully all night long

> without touching the adjustments at all.

>

> Rolando

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



----------------------------

#35654 Mar 11, 2012

Which version of the instructions were you using? You want to use the instructions in this file



www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/keypad_v417.pdf



Here, step three tells you to use the RA/DEC/REV button to check the meridian delay, but then to use the MENU key to get back to the Objects menu.



The instructions in this file



www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/keypad_v412.pdf



are different and appear to have the error you found.



I actually tried the updated instructions the other night and they seemed to work very well. It's great to do this with a right angle finder rather than the main telescope.



Cheers

Pete



On Mar 11, 2012, at 6:23 PM, wellcoordinated wrote:



> Hi Rolando,

>

> I tried the quick drift method this evening. I took the keypad pdf with me to my imaging site so that I could run through the instructions exactly as given. Unfortunately I could not get beyond step 3. I could set the advance meridian value east or west no problem I also carefully checked the RA and LST values to make sure I was advancing the meridian in the right direction. My problem seemed to come from the last sentence on step 3

>

> "Press RA/DEC/REV to return to the Objects Menu."

>

> Pressing this button after doing the calibrate and then the meridian advance did not return me to the objects menu. The only way I could get to that menu was to select the menu button. This then allowed me to select my star from the object>stars, but the scope did not flip sides.

>

> I tried this several times with stars on each side of the meridian, but every time I had a the same problem.

>

> Probably a schoolboy error on my part, but I would be grateful for a little guidance.

>

> Thanks for your help

>

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

>>

>> In a message dated 3/8/2012 4:16:30 PM Central Standard Time,

>> corso.tim@... writes:

>>

>>

>>> The quick drift method seems a bit more complex and I have to admit it is

>>> something I have difficulty committing to memory.

>>

>> Once you do this method, you will discover how really simple it is. It will

>> become intuitive, and there is nothing about it to commit to memory. It is

>> difficult to explain the steps, but it is exceedingly simple to do.

>>

>> Basically you acquire a star straight up and use it as a pivot point. You

>> then use the power of the GoTo computer to set the two axes to their proper

>> angles. You use a simple 8x50 finder to do this routine, you don't even need

>> a scope on your mount, and you can get well within 30 arc sec of the pole

>> without even trying.

>>

>> I have developed another quick method to polar align in the daytime that

>> uses no stars to set the altitude axis. All you need for this is a simple

>> Carpenter's bubble level. You go back and forth between Park1 and Park2,

>> leveling the counterweight shaft in Park 2, and leveling the scope body in Park1.

>> This will set the altitude axis within a few arc minutes of the pole in

>> daylight, before any stars are visible.

>>

>> You can even set the azimuth axis using the sun if you wish, or wait until

>> dusk to set azimuth. That way you do not waste precious dark time doing

>> initial polar alignment, and you just need to touch it up using any of the

>> traditional methods as needed. In fact, I have used this method successfully to

>> find stars in the daytime and actually finished drift alignment of the mount

>> at noon in full daylight. Many times I used this method without doing any

>> drift alignment, and was able to image quite successfully all night long

>> without touching the adjustments at all.

>>

>> Rolando

>>

>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>

>

>

>

>

---------------

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>







----------------------------

#35681 Mar 12, 2012

Hi Pete,



You are right I was using the old version of the pdf; thanks for the correction.



What concerns me here is that although I was using the wrong instructions I was in effect using the correct procedure (one couldn't actually use the wrong procedure), but the scope did not flip to the other side of the mount.



Tim --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Pete Su pete.su@...> wrote:

>

> Which version of the instructions were you using? You want to use the instructions in this file

>

> www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/keypad_v417.pdf

>

> Here, step three tells you to use the RA/DEC/REV button to check the meridian delay, but then to use the MENU key to get back to the Objects menu.

>

> The instructions in this file

>

> www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/keypad_v412.pdf

>

> are different and appear to have the error you found.

>

> I actually tried the updated instructions the other night and they seemed to work very well. It's great to do this with a right angle finder rather than the main telescope.

>

> Cheers

> Pete

>

>

> On Mar 11, 2012, at 6:23 PM, wellcoordinated wrote:

>

> > Hi Rolando,

> >

> > I tried the quick drift method this evening. I took the keypad pdf with me to my imaging site so that I could run through the instructions exactly as given. Unfortunately I could not get beyond step 3. I could set the advance meridian value east or west no problem I also carefully checked the RA and LST values to make sure I was advancing the meridian in the right direction. My problem seemed to come from the last sentence on step 3

> >

> > "Press RA/DEC/REV to return to the Objects Menu."

> >

> > Pressing this button after doing the calibrate and then the meridian advance did not return me to the objects menu. The only way I could get to that menu was to select the menu button. This then allowed me to select my star from the object>stars, but the scope did not flip sides.

> >

> > I tried this several times with stars on each side of the meridian, but every time I had a the same problem.

> >

> > Probably a schoolboy error on my part, but I would be grateful for a little guidance.

> >

> > Thanks for your help

> >

> >

> > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@ wrote:

> >>

> >> In a message dated 3/8/2012 4:16:30 PM Central Standard Time,

> >> corso.tim@ writes:

> >>

> >>

> >>> The quick drift method seems a bit more complex and I have to admit it is

> >>> something I have difficulty committing to memory.

> >>

> >> Once you do this method, you will discover how really simple it is. It will

> >> become intuitive, and there is nothing about it to commit to memory. It is

> >> difficult to explain the steps, but it is exceedingly simple to do.

> >>

> >> Basically you acquire a star straight up and use it as a pivot point. You

> >> then use the power of the GoTo computer to set the two axes to their proper

> >> angles. You use a simple 8x50 finder to do this routine, you don't even need

> >> a scope on your mount, and you can get well within 30 arc sec of the pole

> >> without even trying.

> >>

> >> I have developed another quick method to polar align in the daytime that

> >> uses no stars to set the altitude axis. All you need for this is a simple

> >> Carpenter's bubble level. You go back and forth between Park1 and Park2,

> >> leveling the counterweight shaft in Park 2, and leveling the scope body in Park1.

> >> This will set the altitude axis within a few arc minutes of the pole in

> >> daylight, before any stars are visible.

> >>

> >> You can even set the azimuth axis using the sun if you wish, or wait until

> >> dusk to set azimuth. That way you do not waste precious dark time doing

> >> initial polar alignment, and you just need to touch it up using any of the

> >> traditional methods as needed. In fact, I have used this method successfully to

> >> find stars in the daytime and actually finished drift alignment of the mount

> >> at noon in full daylight. Many times I used this method without doing any

> >> drift alignment, and was able to image quite successfully all night long

> >> without touching the adjustments at all.

> >>

> >> Rolando

> >>

> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

---------------

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

>



----------------------------

#35682 Mar 12, 2012

Hi Tim,



One of two things could have happened. One is you may have used the

wrong side Meridian Delay like you used 1E instead of 1W or vice versa.

Another is if you had PC connected to GTOCP3 and A-P V2 ASCOM driver was

running, then ASCOM driver kept on overriding Meridian Delay you set

with Keypad. Shut down ASCOM driver and try again with Keypad.



Or you could set Meridian Delay in A-P V2 ASCOM driver while PC is

connected to the mount and not use Keypad.



Peter

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "wellcoordinated" corso.tim@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Pete,

>

> You are right I was using the old version of the pdf; thanks for the

correction.

>

> What concerns me here is that although I was using the wrong

instructions I was in effect using the correct procedure (one couldn't

actually use the wrong procedure), but the scope did not flip to the

other side of the mount.

>

> Tim

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Pete Su pete.su@ wrote:

> >

> > Which version of the instructions were you using? You want to use

the instructions in this file

> >

> > www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/keypad_v417.pdf

> >

> > Here, step three tells you to use the RA/DEC/REV button to check the

meridian delay, but then to use the MENU key to get back to the Objects

menu.

> >

> > The instructions in this file

> >

> > www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/keypad_v412.pdf

> >

> > are different and appear to have the error you found.

> >

> > I actually tried the updated instructions the other night and they

seemed to work very well. It's great to do this with a right angle

finder rather than the main telescope.

> >

> > Cheers

> > Pete

> >

> >

> > On Mar 11, 2012, at 6:23 PM, wellcoordinated wrote:

> >

> > > Hi Rolando,

> > >

> > > I tried the quick drift method this evening. I took the keypad pdf

with me to my imaging site so that I could run through the instructions

exactly as given. Unfortunately I could not get beyond step 3. I could

set the advance meridian value east or west no problem I also carefully

checked the RA and LST values to make sure I was advancing the meridian

in the right direction. My problem seemed to come from the last sentence

on step 3

> > >

> > > "Press RA/DEC/REV to return to the Objects Menu."

> > >

> > > Pressing this button after doing the calibrate and then the

meridian advance did not return me to the objects menu. The only way I

could get to that menu was to select the menu button. This then allowed

me to select my star from the object>stars, but the scope did not flip

sides.

> > >

> > > I tried this several times with stars on each side of the

meridian, but every time I had a the same problem.

> > >

> > > Probably a schoolboy error on my part, but I would be grateful for

a little guidance.

> > >

> > > Thanks for your help

> > >

> > >

> > > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@ wrote:

> > >>

> > >> In a message dated 3/8/2012 4:16:30 PM Central Standard Time,

> > >> corso.tim@ writes:

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>> The quick drift method seems a bit more complex and I have to

admit it is

> > >>> something I have difficulty committing to memory.

> > >>

> > >> Once you do this method, you will discover how really simple it

is. It will

> > >> become intuitive, and there is nothing about it to commit to

memory. It is

> > >> difficult to explain the steps, but it is exceedingly simple to

do.

> > >>

> > >> Basically you acquire a star straight up and use it as a pivot

point. You

> > >> then use the power of the GoTo computer to set the two axes to

their proper

> > >> angles. You use a simple 8x50 finder to do this routine, you

don't even need

> > >> a scope on your mount, and you can get well within 30 arc sec of

the pole

> > >> without even trying.

> > >>

> > >> I have developed another quick method to polar align in the

daytime that

> > >> uses no stars to set the altitude axis. All you need for this is

a simple

> > >> Carpenter's bubble level. You go back and forth between Park1 and

Park2,

> > >> leveling the counterweight shaft in Park 2, and leveling the

scope body in Park1.

> > >> This will set the altitude axis within a few arc minutes of the

pole in

> > >> daylight, before any stars are visible.

> > >>

> > >> You can even set the azimuth axis using the sun if you wish, or

wait until

> > >> dusk to set azimuth. That way you do not waste precious dark time

doing

> > >> initial polar alignment, and you just need to touch it up using

any of the

> > >> traditional methods as needed. In fact, I have used this method

successfully to

> > >> find stars in the daytime and actually finished drift alignment

of the mount

> > >> at noon in full daylight. Many times I used this method without

doing any

> > >> drift alignment, and was able to image quite successfully all

night long

> > >> without touching the adjustments at all.

> > >>

> > >> Rolando

> > >>

> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

---------------

> > >

> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> > > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>







----------------------------

#35686 Mar 12, 2012

That should have said: Park 1



Mag. 7 Skies!



Howard Hedlund

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone: 815-282-1513

www.astro-physics.comwww.astro-physics.com/>

Please include this e-mail with your response.



P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.





From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CurtisC

Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 10:25 AM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Struggling with two 2 Star Alignment





> leveling the counterweight shaft in Park 2



How can you level the counterweight shaft in Park 2?







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#35688 Mar 12, 2012

Hi Peter,



I did indeed have my PC connected to the GTOCP3, and yes the ASCOM driver was running. Let's hope that this was the cause of my problem. I had no idea that the ASCOM driver didn't play ball with the keypad.



Next time out I will try again.



Thanks for your help



Tim





--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "topboxman2000" pnagy@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Tim,

>

> One of two things could have happened. One is you may have used the

> wrong side Meridian Delay like you used 1E instead of 1W or vice versa.

> Another is if you had PC connected to GTOCP3 and A-P V2 ASCOM driver was

> running, then ASCOM driver kept on overriding Meridian Delay you set

> with Keypad. Shut down ASCOM driver and try again with Keypad.

>

> Or you could set Meridian Delay in A-P V2 ASCOM driver while PC is

> connected to the mount and not use Keypad.

>

> Peter

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "wellcoordinated" corso.tim@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Pete,

> >

> > You are right I was using the old version of the pdf; thanks for the

> correction.

> >

> > What concerns me here is that although I was using the wrong

> instructions I was in effect using the correct procedure (one couldn't

> actually use the wrong procedure), but the scope did not flip to the

> other side of the mount.

> >

> > Tim

> > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Pete Su pete.su@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Which version of the instructions were you using? You want to use

> the instructions in this file

> > >

> > > www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/keypad_v417.pdf

> > >

> > > Here, step three tells you to use the RA/DEC/REV button to check the

> meridian delay, but then to use the MENU key to get back to the Objects

> menu.

> > >

> > > The instructions in this file

> > >

> > > www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/keypad_v412.pdf

> > >

> > > are different and appear to have the error you found.

> > >

> > > I actually tried the updated instructions the other night and they

> seemed to work very well. It's great to do this with a right angle

> finder rather than the main telescope.

> > >

> > > Cheers

> > > Pete

> > >

> > >

> > > On Mar 11, 2012, at 6:23 PM, wellcoordinated wrote:

> > >

> > > > Hi Rolando,

> > > >

> > > > I tried the quick drift method this evening. I took the keypad pdf

> with me to my imaging site so that I could run through the instructions

> exactly as given. Unfortunately I could not get beyond step 3. I could

> set the advance meridian value east or west no problem I also carefully

> checked the RA and LST values to make sure I was advancing the meridian

> in the right direction. My problem seemed to come from the last sentence

> on step 3

> > > >

> > > > "Press RA/DEC/REV to return to the Objects Menu."

> > > >

> > > > Pressing this button after doing the calibrate and then the

> meridian advance did not return me to the objects menu. The only way I

> could get to that menu was to select the menu button. This then allowed

> me to select my star from the object>stars, but the scope did not flip

> sides.

> > > >

> > > > I tried this several times with stars on each side of the

> meridian, but every time I had a the same problem.

> > > >

> > > > Probably a schoolboy error on my part, but I would be grateful for

> a little guidance.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for your help

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@ wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >> In a message dated 3/8/2012 4:16:30 PM Central Standard Time,

> > > >> corso.tim@ writes:

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>> The quick drift method seems a bit more complex and I have to

> admit it is

> > > >>> something I have difficulty committing to memory.

> > > >>

> > > >> Once you do this method, you will discover how really simple it

> is. It will

> > > >> become intuitive, and there is nothing about it to commit to

> memory. It is

> > > >> difficult to explain the steps, but it is exceedingly simple to

> do.

> > > >>

> > > >> Basically you acquire a star straight up and use it as a pivot

> point. You

> > > >> then use the power of the GoTo computer to set the two axes to

> their proper

> > > >> angles. You use a simple 8x50 finder to do this routine, you

> don't even need

> > > >> a scope on your mount, and you can get well within 30 arc sec of

> the pole

> > > >> without even trying.

> > > >>

> > > >> I have developed another quick method to polar align in the

> daytime that

> > > >> uses no stars to set the altitude axis. All you need for this is

> a simple

> > > >> Carpenter's bubble level. You go back and forth between Park1 and

> Park2,

> > > >> leveling the counterweight shaft in Park 2, and leveling the

> scope body in Park1.

> > > >> This will set the altitude axis within a few arc minutes of the

> pole in

> > > >> daylight, before any stars are visible.

> > > >>

> > > >> You can even set the azimuth axis using the sun if you wish, or

> wait until

> > > >> dusk to set azimuth. That way you do not waste precious dark time

> doing

> > > >> initial polar alignment, and you just need to touch it up using

> any of the

> > > >> traditional methods as needed. In fact, I have used this method

> successfully to

> > > >> find stars in the daytime and actually finished drift alignment

> of the mount

> > > >> at noon in full daylight. Many times I used this method without

> doing any

> > > >> drift alignment, and was able to image quite successfully all

> night long

> > > >> without touching the adjustments at all.

> > > >>

> > > >> Rolando

> > > >>

> > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

---------------

> > > >

> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> > > > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>







----------------------------

#35689 Mar 12, 2012

The ASCOM driver does play ball with the keypad, you simply have to know the rules of the game. The meridian delay is achieved by "fooling" the clock in the servo. You probably have your ASCOM driver set to "keep mount synced to PC time". This means that when the keypad changes the servo's time to initiate the meridian delay, the ASCOM driver then dutifully corrects the time back to PC time. Therefore:



1. If using the keypad for meridian delay, then set the ASCOM driver to NOT keep the time synced to PC time.



2. Ise the ASCOM driver for the meridian delay.

In general, you want to perform ALL of the primary mount control functions from the same device to avoid contradictions. The primary mount control functions include initialization, meridian delay/advance, and parking. Use either the keypad or the driver, but not both for these functions. GoTos can be mixed up between devices, but you must also remember to recalibrate ONLY from the device that sent the last GoTo command.



Mag. 7 Skies!



Howard Hedlund

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone: 815-282-1513

www.astro-physics.comwww.astro-physics.com/>

Please include this e-mail with your response.



P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.





From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wellcoordinated

Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 2:17 PM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Struggling with two 2 Star Alignment







Hi Peter,



I did indeed have my PC connected to the GTOCP3, and yes the ASCOM driver was running. Let's hope that this was the cause of my problem. I had no idea that the ASCOM driver didn't play ball with the keypad.



Next time out I will try again.



Thanks for your help



Tim

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.commailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>, "topboxman2000" pnagy@...mailto:pnagy@...>> wrote:

>

> Hi Tim,

>

> One of two things could have happened. One is you may have used the

> wrong side Meridian Delay like you used 1E instead of 1W or vice versa.

> Another is if you had PC connected to GTOCP3 and A-P V2 ASCOM driver was

> running, then ASCOM driver kept on overriding Meridian Delay you set

> with Keypad. Shut down ASCOM driver and try again with Keypad.

>

> Or you could set Meridian Delay in A-P V2 ASCOM driver while PC is

> connected to the mount and not use Keypad.

>

> Peter

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.commailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>, "wellcoordinated" corso.tim@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Pete,

> >

> > You are right I was using the old version of the pdf; thanks for the

> correction.

> >

> > What concerns me here is that although I was using the wrong

> instructions I was in effect using the correct procedure (one couldn't

> actually use the wrong procedure), but the scope did not flip to the

> other side of the mount.

> >

> > Tim

> > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.commailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>, Pete Su pete.su@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Which version of the instructions were you using? You want to use

> the instructions in this file

> > >

> > > www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/keypad_v417.pdf

> > >

> > > Here, step three tells you to use the RA/DEC/REV button to check the

> meridian delay, but then to use the MENU key to get back to the Objects

> menu.

> > >

> > > The instructions in this file

> > >

> > > www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/keypad_v412.pdf

> > >

> > > are different and appear to have the error you found.

> > >

> > > I actually tried the updated instructions the other night and they

> seemed to work very well. It's great to do this with a right angle

> finder rather than the main telescope.

> > >

> > > Cheers

> > > Pete

> > >

> > >

> > > On Mar 11, 2012, at 6:23 PM, wellcoordinated wrote:

> > >

> > > > Hi Rolando,

> > > >

> > > > I tried the quick drift method this evening. I took the keypad pdf

> with me to my imaging site so that I could run through the instructions

> exactly as given. Unfortunately I could not get beyond step 3. I could

> set the advance meridian value east or west no problem I also carefully

> checked the RA and LST values to make sure I was advancing the meridian

> in the right direction. My problem seemed to come from the last sentence

> on step 3

> > > >

> > > > "Press RA/DEC/REV to return to the Objects Menu."

> > > >

> > > > Pressing this button after doing the calibrate and then the

> meridian advance did not return me to the objects menu. The only way I

> could get to that menu was to select the menu button. This then allowed

> me to select my star from the object>stars, but the scope did not flip

> sides.

> > > >

> > > > I tried this several times with stars on each side of the

> meridian, but every time I had a the same problem.

> > > >

> > > > Probably a schoolboy error on my part, but I would be grateful for

> a little guidance.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for your help

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.commailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>, chris1011@ wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >> In a message dated 3/8/2012 4:16:30 PM Central Standard Time,

> > > >> corso.tim@ writes:

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>> The quick drift method seems a bit more complex and I have to

> admit it is

> > > >>> something I have difficulty committing to memory.

> > > >>

> > > >> Once you do this method, you will discover how really simple it

> is. It will

> > > >> become intuitive, and there is nothing about it to commit to

> memory. It is

> > > >> difficult to explain the steps, but it is exceedingly simple to

> do.

> > > >>

> > > >> Basically you acquire a star straight up and use it as a pivot

> point. You

> > > >> then use the power of the GoTo computer to set the two axes to

> their proper

> > > >> angles. You use a simple 8x50 finder to do this routine, you

> don't even need

> > > >> a scope on your mount, and you can get well within 30 arc sec of

> the pole

> > > >> without even trying.

> > > >>

> > > >> I have developed another quick method to polar align in the

> daytime that

> > > >> uses no stars to set the altitude axis. All you need for this is

> a simple

> > > >> Carpenter's bubble level. You go back and forth between Park1 and

> Park2,

> > > >> leveling the counterweight shaft in Park 2, and leveling the

> scope body in Park1.

> > > >> This will set the altitude axis within a few arc minutes of the

> pole in

> > > >> daylight, before any stars are visible.

> > > >>

> > > >> You can even set the azimuth axis using the sun if you wish, or

> wait until

> > > >> dusk to set azimuth. That way you do not waste precious dark time

> doing

> > > >> initial polar alignment, and you just need to touch it up using

> any of the

> > > >> traditional methods as needed. In fact, I have used this method

> successfully to

> > > >> find stars in the daytime and actually finished drift alignment

> of the mount

> > > >> at noon in full daylight. Many times I used this method without

> doing any

> > > >> drift alignment, and was able to image quite successfully all

> night long

> > > >> without touching the adjustments at all.

> > > >>

> > > >> Rolando

> > > >>

> > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

---------------

> > > >

> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> > > > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#35706 Mar 13, 2012

In a message dated 3/13/2012 5:19:50 PM Central Daylight Time,

corso.tim@... writes:



> So my question is; can I still use the QDM using my main scope with a

> reticle eyepiece, and if so what are the disadvantages of not using a finder

> scope?



The finderscope can be adjusted for orthogonality, whereas the main scope

it is more difficult. That said, you do not need to be orthogonal to make

this work. You will just have to ignore the east-west offset of the star that

is straight up and concentrate on getting the North-South alignment of the

star on the crosshair. Just ignore the offset and you will be fine (you are

not adjusting East-West anyhow, just North-South).



The biggest problem might be two fold, one the main scope magnification may

be so high that it is difficult to bring the star exactly to the crosshair

on each iteration, so you may do a bunch of useless iterations that do not

enhance the accuracy at all. The second problem is that a lot of scopes like

Newts, Cassegrains, SCTs, RCs will have mirror shift between one side of the

meridian and the other, which can easily swamp the final adjustment.

Refractors have less of a problem there.



How to understand and do this:



Here is the deal with this initial altitude adjustment: if your polar axis

is pointing to the exact north pole, then the distance from any star above

to the pole will be exactly the same from both sides of the mount as you

acquire that star on one side and then the other. Let's assume that this star is

at Dec=45 degrees, then it takes exactly 45 + 45 or 90 degrees of Dec worm

wheel rotation to get from one side of the mount to the other to place this

star on the crosshairs on either side.



But let's say that you have adjusted the altitude axis too low by 5

degrees. That means that the worm will travel 50 degrees to this wrong pole and

back only 40 degrees on the other side of the mount - precisely because it

knows that it must go only 90 degrees total to get to this star on either side.

Therefore, since it traveled 5 degrees more on the first side AND 5 degrees

less on the second side, that star will be off the crosshair by twice that

amount - i.e. 10 degrees. Then it would be a simple matter to 1) adjust the

axis up by half of this error (5 degrees), and 2) move the star the rest of

the way to the crosshair via the buttons, and finally 3) do a Recal on this

star (NoNoNoNo do not Sync!!!) to bring the system to the end of the first

iteration.



Now theoretically, if you have have guessed correctly exactly 1/2 of the

way to the crosshair, you are done! No more iterations necessary. However,

that is rarely the case, so you probably would want to do this again, starting

from this new position back to the first one. In each case, of course, you

use the same star, so nothing really to think about except to do a meridian

delay.



Once you have done the altitude, you need not touch it again. No back and

forth between alt and Az. That is the beauty of this system (the Az adjust is

of course self explanatory and even simpler to figure out, no? yes?? ;^))



Rolando



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#35707 Mar 14, 2012

Tim do you have a guidescope? I don't have a traditional finderscope but will always have a guidescope on my telescope. When I get my Mach 1 I will definitely give the QDM a try. It sounds great. I also like that my guidescope will be guiding at the precise point of polar alignment. It also brings up the concept of using the guidescope for gotos and initial camera alignment allowing me to keep the imaging camera setup on the scope from the start and only messing with the guidescope. I recently got an AT72ED as a guidescope so this may work out great.



Robert





Sent from my iPad

On Mar 13, 2012, at 5:19 PM, "wellcoordinated" corso.tim@...> wrote:



> I've had a read of the revised version of the of the Quick Drift Method (QDM) and I see that it makes a bit of a thing about using a finder scope. I don't have such a device, I tend to use a red dot finder.

>

> So my question is; can I still use the QDM using my main scope with a reticle eyepiece, and if so what are the disadvantages of not using a finder scope? For instance would I have to do many more iterations to get the accuracy you would easily get with a finder scope? Can I use the original method of QDM, or does that not really work? I'd be interested to know why the original QDM method was revised?

>

> If I have to have one, can anyone recommend a finder that has an illuminated reticle and right angled eyepiece?

>

> Tim

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "wellcoordinated" corso.tim@...> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Pete,

> >

> > You are right I was using the old version of the pdf; thanks for the correction.

> >

> > What concerns me here is that although I was using the wrong instructions I was in effect using the correct procedure (one couldn't actually use the wrong procedure), but the scope did not flip to the other side of the mount.

> >

> > Tim

> > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Pete Su pete.su@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Which version of the instructions were you using? You want to use the instructions in this file

> > >

> > > www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/keypad_v417.pdf

> > >

> > > Here, step three tells you to use the RA/DEC/REV button to check the meridian delay, but then to use the MENU key to get back to the Objects menu.

> > >

> > > The instructions in this file

> > >

> > > www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/keypad_v412.pdf

> > >

> > > are different and appear to have the error you found.

> > >

> > > I actually tried the updated instructions the other night and they seemed to work very well. It's great to do this with a right angle finder rather than the main telescope.

> > >

> > > Cheers

> > > Pete

> > >

> > >

> > > On Mar 11, 2012, at 6:23 PM, wellcoordinated wrote:

> > >

> > > > Hi Rolando,

> > > >

> > > > I tried the quick drift method this evening. I took the keypad pdf with me to my imaging site so that I could run through the instructions exactly as given. Unfortunately I could not get beyond step 3. I could set the advance meridian value east or west no problem I also carefully checked the RA and LST values to make sure I was advancing the meridian in the right direction. My problem seemed to come from the last sentence on step 3

> > > >

> > > > "Press RA/DEC/REV to return to the Objects Menu."

> > > >

> > > > Pressing this button after doing the calibrate and then the meridian advance did not return me to the objects menu. The only way I could get to that menu was to select the menu button. This then allowed me to select my star from the object>stars, but the scope did not flip sides.

> > > >

> > > > I tried this several times with stars on each side of the meridian, but every time I had a the same problem.

> > > >

> > > > Probably a schoolboy error on my part, but I would be grateful for a little guidance.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for your help

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@ wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >> In a message dated 3/8/2012 4:16:30 PM Central Standard Time,

> > > >> corso.tim@ writes:

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>> The quick drift method seems a bit more complex and I have to admit it is

> > > >>> something I have difficulty committing to memory.

> > > >>

> > > >> Once you do this method, you will discover how really simple it is. It will

> > > >> become intuitive, and there is nothing about it to commit to memory. It is

> > > >> difficult to explain the steps, but it is exceedingly simple to do.

> > > >>

> > > >> Basically you acquire a star straight up and use it as a pivot point. You

> > > >> then use the power of the GoTo computer to set the two axes to their proper

> > > >> angles. You use a simple 8x50 finder to do this routine, you don't even need

> > > >> a scope on your mount, and you can get well within 30 arc sec of the pole

> > > >> without even trying.

> > > >>

> > > >> I have developed another quick method to polar align in the daytime that

> > > >> uses no stars to set the altitude axis. All you need for this is a simple

> > > >> Carpenter's bubble level. You go back and forth between Park1 and Park2,

> > > >> leveling the counterweight shaft in Park 2, and leveling the scope body in Park1.

> > > >> This will set the altitude axis within a few arc minutes of the pole in

> > > >> daylight, before any stars are visible.

> > > >>

> > > >> You can even set the azimuth axis using the sun if you wish, or wait until

> > > >> dusk to set azimuth. That way you do not waste precious dark time doing

> > > >> initial polar alignment, and you just need to touch it up using any of the

> > > >> traditional methods as needed. In fact, I have used this method successfully to

> > > >> find stars in the daytime and actually finished drift alignment of the mount

> > > >> at noon in full daylight. Many times I used this method without doing any

> > > >> drift alignment, and was able to image quite successfully all night long

> > > >> without touching the adjustments at all.

> > > >>

> > > >> Rolando

> > > >>

> > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

---------------

> > > >

> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> > > > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#35709 Mar 14, 2012

Hi Robert, No I do no have a guide scope. My setup is quite primitive at the moment (apart from my Mach1 of course). This is to some extent intentional, as I want a simple system that is as portable as possible. Also, as I'm sure you can tell I am fairy new to astro photography and I feel the need to learn the basics before rushing into lots of fancy hardware.



I' not sure where to go from here - probably I will invest in a quality finders cope.



Tim --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Robert Chozick rchozick@...> wrote:

>

> Tim do you have a guidescope? I don't have a traditional finderscope but will always have a guidescope on my telescope. When I get my Mach 1 I will definitely give the QDM a try. It sounds great. I also like that my guidescope will be guiding at the precise point of polar alignment. It also brings up the concept of using the guidescope for gotos and initial camera alignment allowing me to keep the imaging camera setup on the scope from the start and only messing with the guidescope. I recently got an AT72ED as a guidescope so this may work out great.

>

> Robert

>

>

> Sent from my iPad

>

> On Mar 13, 2012, at 5:19 PM, "wellcoordinated" corso.tim@...> wrote:

>

> > I've had a read of the revised version of the of the Quick Drift Method (QDM) and I see that it makes a bit of a thing about using a finder scope. I don't have such a device, I tend to use a red dot finder.

> >

> > So my question is; can I still use the QDM using my main scope with a reticle eyepiece, and if so what are the disadvantages of not using a finder scope? For instance would I have to do many more iterations to get the accuracy you would easily get with a finder scope? Can I use the original method of QDM, or does that not really work? I'd be interested to know why the original QDM method was revised?

> >

> > If I have to have one, can anyone recommend a finder that has an illuminated reticle and right angled eyepiece?

> >

> > Tim

> >

> > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "wellcoordinated" corso.tim@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi Pete,

> > >

> > > You are right I was using the old version of the pdf; thanks for the correction.

> > >

> > > What concerns me here is that although I was using the wrong instructions I was in effect using the correct procedure (one couldn't actually use the wrong procedure), but the scope did not flip to the other side of the mount.

> > >

> > > Tim

> > > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Pete Su pete.su@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Which version of the instructions were you using? You want to use the instructions in this file

> > > >

> > > > www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/keypad_v417.pdf

> > > >

> > > > Here, step three tells you to use the RA/DEC/REV button to check the meridian delay, but then to use the MENU key to get back to the Objects menu.

> > > >

> > > > The instructions in this file

> > > >

> > > > www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/keypad_v412.pdf

> > > >

> > > > are different and appear to have the error you found.

> > > >

> > > > I actually tried the updated instructions the other night and they seemed to work very well. It's great to do this with a right angle finder rather than the main telescope.

> > > >

> > > > Cheers

> > > > Pete

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On Mar 11, 2012, at 6:23 PM, wellcoordinated wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Hi Rolando,

> > > > >

> > > > > I tried the quick drift method this evening. I took the keypad pdf with me to my imaging site so that I could run through the instructions exactly as given. Unfortunately I could not get beyond step 3. I could set the advance meridian value east or west no problem I also carefully checked the RA and LST values to make sure I was advancing the meridian in the right direction. My problem seemed to come from the last sentence on step 3

> > > > >

> > > > > "Press RA/DEC/REV to return to the Objects Menu."

> > > > >

> > > > > Pressing this button after doing the calibrate and then the meridian advance did not return me to the objects menu. The only way I could get to that menu was to select the menu button. This then allowed me to select my star from the object>stars, but the scope did not flip sides.

> > > > >

> > > > > I tried this several times with stars on each side of the meridian, but every time I had a the same problem.

> > > > >

> > > > > Probably a schoolboy error on my part, but I would be grateful for a little guidance.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for your help

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@ wrote:

> > > > >>

> > > > >> In a message dated 3/8/2012 4:16:30 PM Central Standard Time,

> > > > >> corso.tim@ writes:

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>> The quick drift method seems a bit more complex and I have to admit it is

> > > > >>> something I have difficulty committing to memory.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Once you do this method, you will discover how really simple it is. It will

> > > > >> become intuitive, and there is nothing about it to commit to memory. It is

> > > > >> difficult to explain the steps, but it is exceedingly simple to do.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Basically you acquire a star straight up and use it as a pivot point. You

> > > > >> then use the power of the GoTo computer to set the two axes to their proper

> > > > >> angles. You use a simple 8x50 finder to do this routine, you don't even need

> > > > >> a scope on your mount, and you can get well within 30 arc sec of the pole

> > > > >> without even trying.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> I have developed another quick method to polar align in the daytime that

> > > > >> uses no stars to set the altitude axis. All you need for this is a simple

> > > > >> Carpenter's bubble level. You go back and forth between Park1 and Park2,

> > > > >> leveling the counterweight shaft in Park 2, and leveling the scope body in Park1.

> > > > >> This will set the altitude axis within a few arc minutes of the pole in

> > > > >> daylight, before any stars are visible.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> You can even set the azimuth axis using the sun if you wish, or wait until

> > > > >> dusk to set azimuth. That way you do not waste precious dark time doing

> > > > >> initial polar alignment, and you just need to touch it up using any of the

> > > > >> traditional methods as needed. In fact, I have used this method successfully to

> > > > >> find stars in the daytime and actually finished drift alignment of the mount

> > > > >> at noon in full daylight. Many times I used this method without doing any

> > > > >> drift alignment, and was able to image quite successfully all night long

> > > > >> without touching the adjustments at all.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Rolando

> > > > >>

> > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > > >>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

---------------

> > > > >

> > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> > > > > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>







----------------------------

#35710 Mar 14, 2012

You might as well get an inexpensive refractor, guide rings and guiding eyepiece instead so you will be ready for guiding when you decide to do so. At that point all you have to do is add an inexpesive used DSI for around $100. Guiding is really not that difficult and really improves your images My first guidescope was an old University Optics 80 mm finder.



Robert



Sent from my iPad

On Mar 14, 2012, at 1:59 PM, "wellcoordinated" corso.tim@...> wrote:



>

> Hi Robert, No I do no have a guide scope. My setup is quite primitive at the moment (apart from my Mach1 of course). This is to some extent intentional, as I want a simple system that is as portable as possible. Also, as I'm sure you can tell I am fairy new to astro photography and I feel the need to learn the basics before rushing into lots of fancy hardware.

>

> I' not sure where to go from here - probably I will invest in a quality finders cope.

>

> Tim

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Robert Chozick rchozick@...> wrote:

> >

> > Tim do you have a guidescope? I don't have a traditional finderscope but will always have a guidescope on my telescope. When I get my Mach 1 I will definitely give the QDM a try. It sounds great. I also like that my guidescope will be guiding at the precise point of polar alignment. It also brings up the concept of using the guidescope for gotos and initial camera alignment allowing me to keep the imaging camera setup on the scope from the start and only messing with the guidescope. I recently got an AT72ED as a guidescope so this may work out great.

> >

> > Robert

> >

> >

> > Sent from my iPad

> >

> > On Mar 13, 2012, at 5:19 PM, "wellcoordinated" corso.tim@...> wrote:

> >

> > > I've had a read of the revised version of the of the Quick Drift Method (QDM) and I see that it makes a bit of a thing about using a finder scope. I don't have such a device, I tend to use a red dot finder.

> > >

> > > So my question is; can I still use the QDM using my main scope with a reticle eyepiece, and if so what are the disadvantages of not using a finder scope? For instance would I have to do many more iterations to get the accuracy you would easily get with a finder scope? Can I use the original method of QDM, or does that not really work? I'd be interested to know why the original QDM method was revised?

> > >

> > > If I have to have one, can anyone recommend a finder that has an illuminated reticle and right angled eyepiece?

> > >

> > > Tim

> > >

> > > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "wellcoordinated" corso.tim@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hi Pete,

> > > >

> > > > You are right I was using the old version of the pdf; thanks for the correction.

> > > >

> > > > What concerns me here is that although I was using the wrong instructions I was in effect using the correct procedure (one couldn't actually use the wrong procedure), but the scope did not flip to the other side of the mount.

> > > >

> > > > Tim

> > > > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Pete Su pete.su@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Which version of the instructions were you using? You want to use the instructions in this file

> > > > >

> > > > > www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/keypad_v417.pdf

> > > > >

> > > > > Here, step three tells you to use the RA/DEC/REV button to check the meridian delay, but then to use the MENU key to get back to the Objects menu.

> > > > >

> > > > > The instructions in this file

> > > > >

> > > > > www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/keypad_v412.pdf

> > > > >

> > > > > are different and appear to have the error you found.

> > > > >

> > > > > I actually tried the updated instructions the other night and they seemed to work very well. It's great to do this with a right angle finder rather than the main telescope.

> > > > >

> > > > > Cheers

> > > > > Pete

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > On Mar 11, 2012, at 6:23 PM, wellcoordinated wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Hi Rolando,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I tried the quick drift method this evening. I took the keypad pdf with me to my imaging site so that I could run through the instructions exactly as given. Unfortunately I could not get beyond step 3. I could set the advance meridian value east or west no problem I also carefully checked the RA and LST values to make sure I was advancing the meridian in the right direction. My problem seemed to come from the last sentence on step 3

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "Press RA/DEC/REV to return to the Objects Menu."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Pressing this button after doing the calibrate and then the meridian advance did not return me to the objects menu. The only way I could get to that menu was to select the menu button. This then allowed me to select my star from the object>stars, but the scope did not flip sides.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I tried this several times with stars on each side of the meridian, but every time I had a the same problem.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Probably a schoolboy error on my part, but I would be grateful for a little guidance.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks for your help

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@ wrote:

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> In a message dated 3/8/2012 4:16:30 PM Central Standard Time,

> > > > > >> corso.tim@ writes:

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >>> The quick drift method seems a bit more complex and I have to admit it is

> > > > > >>> something I have difficulty committing to memory.

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> Once you do this method, you will discover how really simple it is. It will

> > > > > >> become intuitive, and there is nothing about it to commit to memory. It is

> > > > > >> difficult to explain the steps, but it is exceedingly simple to do.

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> Basically you acquire a star straight up and use it as a pivot point. You

> > > > > >> then use the power of the GoTo computer to set the two axes to their proper

> > > > > >> angles. You use a simple 8x50 finder to do this routine, you don't even need

> > > > > >> a scope on your mount, and you can get well within 30 arc sec of the pole

> > > > > >> without even trying.

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> I have developed another quick method to polar align in the daytime that

> > > > > >> uses no stars to set the altitude axis. All you need for this is a simple

> > > > > >> Carpenter's bubble level. You go back and forth between Park1 and Park2,

> > > > > >> leveling the counterweight shaft in Park 2, and leveling the scope body in Park1.

> > > > > >> This will set the altitude axis within a few arc minutes of the pole in

> > > > > >> daylight, before any stars are visible.

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> You can even set the azimuth axis using the sun if you wish, or wait until

> > > > > >> dusk to set azimuth. That way you do not waste precious dark time doing

> > > > > >> initial polar alignment, and you just need to touch it up using any of the

> > > > > >> traditional methods as needed. In fact, I have used this method successfully to

> > > > > >> find stars in the daytime and actually finished drift alignment of the mount

> > > > > >> at noon in full daylight. Many times I used this method without doing any

> > > > > >> drift alignment, and was able to image quite successfully all night long

> > > > > >> without touching the adjustments at all.

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> Rolando

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

---------------

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> > > > > > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#35712 Mar 14, 2012

In a message dated 3/14/2012 1:59:19 PM Central Daylight Time,

corso.tim@... writes:



> Hi Robert, No I do no have a guide scope. My setup is quite primitive at

> the moment (apart from my Mach1 of course). This is to some extent

> intentional, as I want a simple system that is as portable as possible. Also, as

> I'm sure you can tell I am fairy new to astro photography and I feel the need

> to learn the basics before rushing into lots of fancy hardware.

>

> I' not sure where to go from here - probably I will invest in a quality

> finders cope.

>



I believe that I answered you that you do NOT need a finder or guide scope.

Go back and read what I wrote. If it is not clear, I can explain further.



Rolando



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#35713 Mar 14, 2012

Hi Rolando,



Thank you for your detailed explanation.



I went out tonight and used the quick drift method and I am happy to say that it worked like a charm. Certainly 6 minute unguided exposures were giving me nice round stars.



I'm much happier now that I have managed to put the method into practise, and excited to see a star bang on my cross hairs after a slew.



Thanks again



Tim

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 3/14/2012 1:59:19 PM Central Daylight Time,

> corso.tim@... writes:

>

>

> > Hi Robert, No I do no have a guide scope. My setup is quite primitive at

> > the moment (apart from my Mach1 of course). This is to some extent

> > intentional, as I want a simple system that is as portable as possible. Also, as

> > I'm sure you can tell I am fairy new to astro photography and I feel the need

> > to learn the basics before rushing into lots of fancy hardware.

> >

> > I' not sure where to go from here - probably I will invest in a quality

> > finders cope.

> >

>

> I believe that I answered you that you do NOT need a finder or guide scope.

> Go back and read what I wrote. If it is not clear, I can explain further.

>

> Rolando

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



----------------------------

#35714 Mar 15, 2012

You go back and forth between Park1 and Park2, leveling the counterweight shaft in Park 2, and leveling the scope body in Park1.



Someone said Park 2 should be Park 1, but I'm Still confused.



Is the following correct?



First, at Park 2, bubble level the counterweight shaft vertically with E and W buttons.

Second, at Park 2, bubble level the OTA with N and S buttons.

Resume from Park 2

GoTo Park 1

At Park 1, bubble level the scope body with the Manual Altitude Adjustment screw.

Repeat until OTA at Park 1 is level. May be correct on 2nd check.





As always, I could be wrong again.

jimmy



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 3/8/2012 4:16:30 PM Central Standard Time,

> corso.tim@... writes:

>

>

> > The quick drift method seems a bit more complex and I have to admit it is

> > something I have difficulty committing to memory.

>

> Once you do this method, you will discover how really simple it is. It will

> become intuitive, and there is nothing about it to commit to memory. It is

> difficult to explain the steps, but it is exceedingly simple to do.

>

> Basically you acquire a star straight up and use it as a pivot point. You

> then use the power of the GoTo computer to set the two axes to their proper

> angles. You use a simple 8x50 finder to do this routine, you don't even need

> a scope on your mount, and you can get well within 30 arc sec of the pole

> without even trying.

>

> I have developed another quick method to polar align in the daytime that

> uses no stars to set the altitude axis. All you need for this is a simple

> Carpenter's bubble level. You go back and forth between Park1 and Park2,

> leveling the counterweight shaft in Park 2, and leveling the scope body in Park1.

> This will set the altitude axis within a few arc minutes of the pole in

> daylight, before any stars are visible.

>

> You can even set the azimuth axis using the sun if you wish, or wait until

> dusk to set azimuth. That way you do not waste precious dark time doing

> initial polar alignment, and you just need to touch it up using any of the

> traditional methods as needed. In fact, I have used this method successfully to

> find stars in the daytime and actually finished drift alignment of the mount

> at noon in full daylight. Many times I used this method without doing any

> drift alignment, and was able to image quite successfully all night long

> without touching the adjustments at all.

>

> Rolando

>



----------------------------

#35716 Mar 15, 2012

Park 2 has the counterweight shaft down, so you can't use a level on it. The steps are as follows:



1. Start at Park 1 position with the CW shaft accurately leveled. Use the clutches to get the CW shaft level, NOT the keypad direction buttons unless you then power cycle and resume from reference park one.



2. Go To Park 2 and accurately level the OTA. Move the OTA via the clutches, NOT the keypad direction buttons.



3. Go back to Park 1. This time you will level the OTA by adjusting the Altitude adjuster on the mount. Altitude done.



4. Go to a daytime object like the sun, moon (if up), Jupiter of Venus. Use all the usual precautions if you go to the sun or simply use its shadow. Adjust the azimuth to center the object as well as you can. DONE.



Mag. 7 Skies!



Howard Hedlund

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone: 815-282-1513

www.astro-physics.comwww.astro-physics.com/>

Please include this e-mail with your response.



P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.





From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jimmyjujames

Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 5:49 AM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Struggling with two 2 Star Alignment







You go back and forth between Park1 and Park2, leveling the counterweight shaft in Park 2, and leveling the scope body in Park1.



Someone said Park 2 should be Park 1, but I'm Still confused.



Is the following correct?



First, at Park 2, bubble level the counterweight shaft vertically with E and W buttons.

Second, at Park 2, bubble level the OTA with N and S buttons.

Resume from Park 2

GoTo Park 1

At Park 1, bubble level the scope body with the Manual Altitude Adjustment screw.

Repeat until OTA at Park 1 is level. May be correct on 2nd check.



As always, I could be wrong again.

jimmy

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.commailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>, chris1011@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 3/8/2012 4:16:30 PM Central Standard Time,

> corso.tim@mailto:corso.tim@>... writes:

>

>

> > The quick drift method seems a bit more complex and I have to admit it is

> > something I have difficulty committing to memory.

>

> Once you do this method, you will discover how really simple it is. It will

> become intuitive, and there is nothing about it to commit to memory. It is

> difficult to explain the steps, but it is exceedingly simple to do.

>

> Basically you acquire a star straight up and use it as a pivot point. You

> then use the power of the GoTo computer to set the two axes to their proper

> angles. You use a simple 8x50 finder to do this routine, you don't even need

> a scope on your mount, and you can get well within 30 arc sec of the pole

> without even trying.

>

> I have developed another quick method to polar align in the daytime that

> uses no stars to set the altitude axis. All you need for this is a simple

> Carpenter's bubble level. You go back and forth between Park1 and Park2,

> leveling the counterweight shaft in Park 2, and leveling the scope body in Park1.

> This will set the altitude axis within a few arc minutes of the pole in

> daylight, before any stars are visible.

>

> You can even set the azimuth axis using the sun if you wish, or wait until

> dusk to set azimuth. That way you do not waste precious dark time doing

> initial polar alignment, and you just need to touch it up using any of the

> traditional methods as needed. In fact, I have used this method successfully to

> find stars in the daytime and actually finished drift alignment of the mount

> at noon in full daylight. Many times I used this method without doing any

> drift alignment, and was able to image quite successfully all night long

> without touching the adjustments at all.

>

> Rolando

>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#35776 Mar 23, 2012

Note that all the alignment methods mentioned in the manuals are for polar alignment only.



The AP keypad does not, as yet, have any facility for a pointing model. The idea is that you get properly polar aligned, calibrate on a single star and then go. What I do is to use the polar scope to get close using just Polaris, and then two passes of the quick drift scheme does the rest.



I came from using the Celestron mounts that have fairly clever pointing software. But I'll say that even with my limited experience (2 weeks) and the various things that can go wrong pointing an SCT (mirror movement, lack of orthogonality, etc) my Mach1 probably points more consistently even without a model than my more clever mount did with one. This is even true moving across the meridian.



I use the mount with a video camera that has a very small sensor and it has not missed the chip yet.



Cheers

Pete

On Mar 23, 2012, at 12:06 AM, Chris H. wrote:



>

>

> Hi Howard,

>

> I'm a new AP900 owner and was able to get it out under the stars for the first time this evening since receiving it two weeks ago. I was having the same problems as the original poster with 2-star alignment and came across this thread. I will try the Quick Drift Method tomorrow evening, but I do have a related question.

>

> If the 2-star alignment is only intended to get the mount "close enough" for visual, what methods are available to fine-tune the GOTO accuracy, if any? Forgive my ignorance, as my experience has been with a Losmandy G-11 w/Gemini 2 that allows one to build a pointing model by syncing on multiple stars.

>

> My primary use for the AP900 will be astrophotography, and I'd like for the pointing to be pretty accurate (more for convenience than anything). Thanks!

>

> Chris

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Howard howard@...> wrote:

>>

>> Hi,

>>

>> The two methods for polar alignment ( N Polar & Two-star) that are in the keypad are NOT intended to produce imaging-ready alignments. They are quick methods to get the mount close enough for GoTos when observing visually. Because they are very much affected by orthogonality, they are often LESS accurate than a well done polar scope alignment. The revised GTO Quick Drift Method can be a bit more accurate than the polar scope, and classic drift alignment or PEMPro's Polar Alignment Wizard take that even one step further.

>>

>> Mag. 7 Skies!

>>

>> Howard Hedlund

>> Astro-Physics, Inc.

>> Phone: 815-282-1513

>> www.astro-physics.comwww.astro-physics.com/>

>> Please include this e-mail with your response.

>>

>> P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

>>

>>

>> From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wellcoordinated

>> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 3:43 AM

>> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

>> Subject: [ap-gto] Struggling with two 2 Star Alignment

>>

>>

>>

>> After a few months now I am still struggling to get the polar alignment that I think I should be getting.

>>

>> Last night I decided to try some imaging despite the intensity of the moon. May be I am a lunatic (ha) but I wanted to get outside and try, come what may to get some Horsehead shots.

>>

>> This is my polar alignment sequence

>>

>> 1. Align using Polar Scope. (did this quite carefully; I took my time)

>> 2. Using software (Backyard EOS) drift align screen, and the ASCOM driver, I accurately centred my scope on Betelgeuse.

>> 3. On the keypad I chose the 2 Star Alignment method.

>> 4. For the first star I chose Betelgeuse.

>> 5. I pressed GOTO. (mount did not move as expected)

>> 6. Because of the moon and some cirrus cloud, I was short on visible stars. but I decided for better or worse to choose Alkaid.

>> 6. I pressed GOTO

>> 7. The mount slewed towards Alkaid, but it did not appear anywhere on my DSLRs chip.

>>

>> I'm surprised it is so far off after my careful use of the polar scope.

>>

>> 8. Using the Alt and Az screws I manually move the star into the view of my DSLR, and then finely centre it in Backyard EOS.

>>

>> Should be close-ish to good alignment now? I decide to see what a few more iterations of the steps above will give me.

>>

>> 9. On the Keypad I choose Betelgeuse.

>> 10. I press GTO.

>> 11. The mount slews to Betelgeuse.

>>

>> This time the star is on the DSLR chip but only just.

>>

>> 12. Using the ASCOM driver I accurately centre Betelgeuse.

>> 13. For the second star I choose Alkaid once more.

>> 14. The mount slewed towards Alkaid, this time the star is a little nearer to the centre of the camera's chip but still a long way off.

>> 15. Using the Alt and Az screws I finely centre Alkaid in Backyard EOS

>>

>> I did two more iterations but never really got anywhere near the centre when slewing between stars. I just seemed to be oscillating back and forth without getting any more accuracy.

>>

>> Other info that might Help explain my problem: Imaging from southern UK. Scope FL=432 with 0.8x flattener.

>>

>> Sorry for the long winded post but I hope that someone can spot my mistake.

>>

>>

>>

>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>

>

>

>

>

---------------

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>







----------------------------

#35781 Mar 23, 2012

Great, thanks for the response, Pete. I can already tell the AP900 has a considerably higher degree of refinement than my previous mount, so I suppose my concerns are likely unfounded. Now I just need to get comfortable with the polar alignment procedure (and commit it to memory) so I can get back to imaging.



CH

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Pete Su pete.su@...> wrote:

>

> Note that all the alignment methods mentioned in the manuals are for polar alignment only.

>

> The AP keypad does not, as yet, have any facility for a pointing model. The idea is that you get properly polar aligned, calibrate on a single star and then go. What I do is to use the polar scope to get close using just Polaris, and then two passes of the quick drift scheme does the rest.

>

> I came from using the Celestron mounts that have fairly clever pointing software. But I'll say that even with my limited experience (2 weeks) and the various things that can go wrong pointing an SCT (mirror movement, lack of orthogonality, etc) my Mach1 probably points more consistently even without a model than my more clever mount did with one. This is even true moving across the meridian.

>

> I use the mount with a video camera that has a very small sensor and it has not missed the chip yet.

>

> Cheers

> Pete

>

> On Mar 23, 2012, at 12:06 AM, Chris H. wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Hi Howard,

> >

> > I'm a new AP900 owner and was able to get it out under the stars for the first time this evening since receiving it two weeks ago. I was having the same problems as the original poster with 2-star alignment and came across this thread. I will try the Quick Drift Method tomorrow evening, but I do have a related question.

> >

> > If the 2-star alignment is only intended to get the mount "close enough" for visual, what methods are available to fine-tune the GOTO accuracy, if any? Forgive my ignorance, as my experience has been with a Losmandy G-11 w/Gemini 2 that allows one to build a pointing model by syncing on multiple stars.

> >

> > My primary use for the AP900 will be astrophotography, and I'd like for the pointing to be pretty accurate (more for convenience than anything). Thanks!

> >

> > Chris

> >

> > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Howard howard@> wrote:

> >>

> >> Hi,

> >>

> >> The two methods for polar alignment ( N Polar & Two-star) that are in the keypad are NOT intended to produce imaging-ready alignments. They are quick methods to get the mount close enough for GoTos when observing visually. Because they are very much affected by orthogonality, they are often LESS accurate than a well done polar scope alignment. The revised GTO Quick Drift Method can be a bit more accurate than the polar scope, and classic drift alignment or PEMPro's Polar Alignment Wizard take that even one step further.

> >>

> >> Mag. 7 Skies!

> >>

> >> Howard Hedlund

> >> Astro-Physics, Inc.

> >> Phone: 815-282-1513

> >> www.astro-physics.comwww.astro-physics.com/>

> >> Please include this e-mail with your response.

> >>

> >> P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

> >>

> >>

> >> From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wellcoordinated

> >> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 3:43 AM

> >> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> >> Subject: [ap-gto] Struggling with two 2 Star Alignment

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> After a few months now I am still struggling to get the polar alignment that I think I should be getting.

> >>

> >> Last night I decided to try some imaging despite the intensity of the moon. May be I am a lunatic (ha) but I wanted to get outside and try, come what may to get some Horsehead shots.

> >>

> >> This is my polar alignment sequence

> >>

> >> 1. Align using Polar Scope. (did this quite carefully; I took my time)

> >> 2. Using software (Backyard EOS) drift align screen, and the ASCOM driver, I accurately centred my scope on Betelgeuse.

> >> 3. On the keypad I chose the 2 Star Alignment method.

> >> 4. For the first star I chose Betelgeuse.

> >> 5. I pressed GOTO. (mount did not move as expected)

> >> 6. Because of the moon and some cirrus cloud, I was short on visible stars. but I decided for better or worse to choose Alkaid.

> >> 6. I pressed GOTO

> >> 7. The mount slewed towards Alkaid, but it did not appear anywhere on my DSLRs chip.

> >>

> >> I'm surprised it is so far off after my careful use of the polar scope.

> >>

> >> 8. Using the Alt and Az screws I manually move the star into the view of my DSLR, and then finely centre it in Backyard EOS.

> >>

> >> Should be close-ish to good alignment now? I decide to see what a few more iterations of the steps above will give me.

> >>

> >> 9. On the Keypad I choose Betelgeuse.

> >> 10. I press GTO.

> >> 11. The mount slews to Betelgeuse.

> >>

> >> This time the star is on the DSLR chip but only just.

> >>

> >> 12. Using the ASCOM driver I accurately centre Betelgeuse.

> >> 13. For the second star I choose Alkaid once more.

> >> 14. The mount slewed towards Alkaid, this time the star is a little nearer to the centre of the camera's chip but still a long way off.

> >> 15. Using the Alt and Az screws I finely centre Alkaid in Backyard EOS

> >>

> >> I did two more iterations but never really got anywhere near the centre when slewing between stars. I just seemed to be oscillating back and forth without getting any more accuracy.

> >>

> >> Other info that might Help explain my problem: Imaging from southern UK. Scope FL=432 with 0.8x flattener.

> >>

> >> Sorry for the long winded post but I hope that someone can spot my mistake.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

---------------

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

>







----------------------------

#35785 Mar 23, 2012

As a follow-up, I gave the quick-drift method a go this evening. It was very straightforward, so I don't think I'll have a problem committing it to memory. I discovered that my telescope has some problems with orthogonality somewhere (I was polar aligning through the main scope), so I'll have to dig out an old finder scope and try again tomorrow evening.



In reading through the manual, I'm lead to believe orthogonality isn't a huge deal as long as the mount itself is polar aligned, correct? Or should I make an effort to correct the orthogonality error since I'll be using the scope for astrophotography?



My setup is a Takahashi FSQ-106ED mounted with Parallax rings on an ADM 11" DUP dovetail. I'm using the AP DOVELM2 saddle.



Chris

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Chris H." deinonych@...> wrote:

>

> Great, thanks for the response, Pete. I can already tell the AP900 has a considerably higher degree of refinement than my previous mount, so I suppose my concerns are likely unfounded. Now I just need to get comfortable with the polar alignment procedure (and commit it to memory) so I can get back to imaging.

>

> CH

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Pete Su pete.su@> wrote:

> >

> > Note that all the alignment methods mentioned in the manuals are for polar alignment only.

> >

> > The AP keypad does not, as yet, have any facility for a pointing model. The idea is that you get properly polar aligned, calibrate on a single star and then go. What I do is to use the polar scope to get close using just Polaris, and then two passes of the quick drift scheme does the rest.

> >

> > I came from using the Celestron mounts that have fairly clever pointing software. But I'll say that even with my limited experience (2 weeks) and the various things that can go wrong pointing an SCT (mirror movement, lack of orthogonality, etc) my Mach1 probably points more consistently even without a model than my more clever mount did with one. This is even true moving across the meridian.

> >

> > I use the mount with a video camera that has a very small sensor and it has not missed the chip yet.

> >

> > Cheers

> > Pete

> >

> > On Mar 23, 2012, at 12:06 AM, Chris H. wrote:

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi Howard,

> > >

> > > I'm a new AP900 owner and was able to get it out under the stars for the first time this evening since receiving it two weeks ago. I was having the same problems as the original poster with 2-star alignment and came across this thread. I will try the Quick Drift Method tomorrow evening, but I do have a related question.

> > >

> > > If the 2-star alignment is only intended to get the mount "close enough" for visual, what methods are available to fine-tune the GOTO accuracy, if any? Forgive my ignorance, as my experience has been with a Losmandy G-11 w/Gemini 2 that allows one to build a pointing model by syncing on multiple stars.

> > >

> > > My primary use for the AP900 will be astrophotography, and I'd like for the pointing to be pretty accurate (more for convenience than anything). Thanks!

> > >

> > > Chris

> > >

> > > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Howard howard@> wrote:

> > >>

> > >> Hi,

> > >>

> > >> The two methods for polar alignment ( N Polar & Two-star) that are in the keypad are NOT intended to produce imaging-ready alignments. They are quick methods to get the mount close enough for GoTos when observing visually. Because they are very much affected by orthogonality, they are often LESS accurate than a well done polar scope alignment. The revised GTO Quick Drift Method can be a bit more accurate than the polar scope, and classic drift alignment or PEMPro's Polar Alignment Wizard take that even one step further.

> > >>

> > >> Mag. 7 Skies!

> > >>

> > >> Howard Hedlund

> > >> Astro-Physics, Inc.

> > >> Phone: 815-282-1513

> > >> www.astro-physics.comwww.astro-physics.com/>

> > >> Please include this e-mail with your response.

> > >>

> > >> P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wellcoordinated

> > >> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 3:43 AM

> > >> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> > >> Subject: [ap-gto] Struggling with two 2 Star Alignment

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> After a few months now I am still struggling to get the polar alignment that I think I should be getting.

> > >>

> > >> Last night I decided to try some imaging despite the intensity of the moon. May be I am a lunatic (ha) but I wanted to get outside and try, come what may to get some Horsehead shots.

> > >>

> > >> This is my polar alignment sequence

> > >>

> > >> 1. Align using Polar Scope. (did this quite carefully; I took my time)

> > >> 2. Using software (Backyard EOS) drift align screen, and the ASCOM driver, I accurately centred my scope on Betelgeuse.

> > >> 3. On the keypad I chose the 2 Star Alignment method.

> > >> 4. For the first star I chose Betelgeuse.

> > >> 5. I pressed GOTO. (mount did not move as expected)

> > >> 6. Because of the moon and some cirrus cloud, I was short on visible stars. but I decided for better or worse to choose Alkaid.

> > >> 6. I pressed GOTO

> > >> 7. The mount slewed towards Alkaid, but it did not appear anywhere on my DSLRs chip.

> > >>

> > >> I'm surprised it is so far off after my careful use of the polar scope.

> > >>

> > >> 8. Using the Alt and Az screws I manually move the star into the view of my DSLR, and then finely centre it in Backyard EOS.

> > >>

> > >> Should be close-ish to good alignment now? I decide to see what a few more iterations of the steps above will give me.

> > >>

> > >> 9. On the Keypad I choose Betelgeuse.

> > >> 10. I press GTO.

> > >> 11. The mount slews to Betelgeuse.

> > >>

> > >> This time the star is on the DSLR chip but only just.

> > >>

> > >> 12. Using the ASCOM driver I accurately centre Betelgeuse.

> > >> 13. For the second star I choose Alkaid once more.

> > >> 14. The mount slewed towards Alkaid, this time the star is a little nearer to the centre of the camera's chip but still a long way off.

> > >> 15. Using the Alt and Az screws I finely centre Alkaid in Backyard EOS

> > >>

> > >> I did two more iterations but never really got anywhere near the centre when slewing between stars. I just seemed to be oscillating back and forth without getting any more accuracy.

> > >>

> > >> Other info that might Help explain my problem: Imaging from southern UK. Scope FL=432 with 0.8x flattener.

> > >>

> > >> Sorry for the long winded post but I hope that someone can spot my mistake.

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

---------------

> > >

> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> > > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>







----------------------------

#35790 Mar 24, 2012

All I mean by calibration in this context is centering the star and hitting recalibrate on the keypad.



Pete

On Mar 23, 2012, at 6:05 PM, jdmetzg wrote:



> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Pete Su pete.su@...> wrote:

> "The idea is that you get properly polar aligned, calibrate on a single star and then go."

>

> I'm just getting started with my 900 also, and would appreciate a little more detail on exactly how I "calibrate on a single star". I will be getting a polar alignment scope, so I figure I can get my telescope orthagonal to the mount RA axis, and then achieve a good polar alignment...once I've done that, what next?

>

> Thanks,

> J.D.

>

>

>

---------------

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>



----------------------------

#41408 Aug 12, 2013

I was only two stars in on the 2 star alignment routine when I had to stop due to clouds rolling in. When I power everything up again will I need to restart the alignment process from scratch to refine my polar alignment or can I just pick back up where I left off as long as I follow the instructions for the alignment procedure?



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