Re: [ap-gto] Re: 1600 mount tests


Oct 8, 2012

 


----------------------------

#37988 Oct 8, 2012

Hello All,



This has been a busy month for our engineering, machining and assembly crew. With everyone pitching in, the first of the production mounts are coming off the assembly and are being hit with a battery of tests. Part of testing has been done on the bench with new test equipment and software. And of course Howard and myself have been busy doing night time testing of the prototype and first production mounts. I just want to cover a few things that you might have questions about.



First of all, we have been very aware that these mounts may be used in remote applications, so we have designed many new safeguards (both mechanical and software wise) to make sure the mounts can not get lost and stay lost. For the ultimate setup, we have built-in absolute encoders that allow the software in APCC, or any external software that can read the encoder angles, to determine at all times where the mount is pointing. Using this information, our servo can be set to have limits on the east and west side of the mount so that the scope cannot be tracked or slewed into the pier. The user can also set a home position to his favorite orientation of scope and counterweight shaft. Home position is not tied to any particular RA or time data, so no matter how you got the mount lost (you synced on Vega when the scope was pointed at Deneb?). The home position is accurate to the arc second on the gear angle.



The encoders have a primary function to eliminate all tracking errors of both axes, mostly of course to eliminate the periodic error of the worm gear well below 1/2 arc second. Howard and I did a test last week of unguided imaging with the 175EDF refractor, 1400mm focal length and 5.4 micron pixel QSI 683 camera. Howard first did a simple pointing run of 28 points with APCC (all done automatically while we were inside warming up with a cup of tea). With this simple model, we imaged for 10 minutes with no guiding whatsoever, and produced perfectly round stars down to the arc second. Later on we did a PEMPro run of the drift in the 2 axes, with and without pointing model engaged and recorded the following: without the pointing model, the overall star drift due to scope flex, atmospheric refraction, and other effects was approximately 5 arc seconds (mostly in RA) in a 35 minute time period. With the APCC pointing model turned on, we recorded a 5 times improvement, tracking the star down to less than 1 arc sec. In fact the drift was now lower than the atmospheric turbulance. We expect even better performance with a more extensive pointing model, which may very well eliminate the need for any kind of guiding in a well aligned observatory setup.



That may be all well and good, you say, but what about those of us who don't want to spring for the added expense of the encoders. What can you do for our situation? Well, remember, that the basic accuracy of the worm gear will be guaranteed to be 5 arc sec or less, and with the apllication of PEMPro, you can compensate for that down to 1 arc sec or less using the PEM function that has always been in our mount. On top of that, we will also have optional homing and limit switches that can be attached inside the RA and DEC axes and set to your specific needs. Thus, you can set the tracking/slewing limits to any place from the meridian to the western horizon, depending on your scope setup and the amount of clearance that you have. Now you don't have to worry that the scope will continue to track all night and next day if you forget to turn off power, and wrap all your camera and accessory cords, or run the scope into your observatory roof. The homing position is also settable, starting off in the Park2 position, but can be moved around to any other spot in the sky. And of course you can also use APCC to build a pointing model to do unguided imaging just like above, but within the accuracy of the worm gear and your PE compensation. The home function uses a mechanical switch to recover the mount from a lost situation to within 2 - 3 arc minutes. You can then do a plate solve to get dead nuts on.



The idea of the 1600 was to design a mount that can meet the basic needs of just about any application, and then can be built upon as the need arises with hardware and software options. All these options are customer installable, no need to tear down the mount or send it in. Believe me, even without the encoders, in its basic mode this is a highly precise mount, second to none. It can hold a lot of weight, and can shrug off external disturbances like wind load on long tubes. We have a number of pier and tripod options that cover just about any application from portable to semi-permanent observatory setups (permanent piers you will need to engineer on your own).



I am as excited about this product as I have ever been on anything we have ever made here, and I'm looking forward to seeing some of you in Tuscon and at AIC in California in the next few weeks.



Rolando







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#37992 Oct 9, 2012

Rolando, This sound exciting indeed! I can't wait to receive my fully load version of the 1600. Please ship some out before you go west "young man". :) I'm hoping the first group is still on schedule to start shipping in October.



Best, Joe



Joseph Miele



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

>

>

>

> Hello All,

>

> This has been a busy month for our engineering, machining and assembly crew. With everyone pitching in, the first of the production mounts are coming off the assembly and are being hit with a battery of tests. Part of testing has been done on the bench with new test equipment and software. And of course Howard and myself have been busy doing night time testing of the prototype and first production mounts. I just want to cover a few things that you might have questions about.

>

> First of all, we have been very aware that these mounts may be used in remote applications, so we have designed many new safeguards (both mechanical and software wise) to make sure the mounts can not get lost and stay lost. For the ultimate setup, we have built-in absolute encoders that allow the software in APCC, or any external software that can read the encoder angles, to determine at all times where the mount is pointing. Using this information, our servo can be set to have limits on the east and west side of the mount so that the scope cannot be tracked or slewed into the pier. The user can also set a home position to his favorite orientation of scope and counterweight shaft. Home position is not tied to any particular RA or time data, so no matter how you got the mount lost (you synced on Vega when the scope was pointed at Deneb?). The home position is accurate to the arc second on the gear angle.

>

> The encoders have a primary function to eliminate all tracking errors of both axes, mostly of course to eliminate the periodic error of the worm gear well below 1/2 arc second. Howard and I did a test last week of unguided imaging with the 175EDF refractor, 1400mm focal length and 5.4 micron pixel QSI 683 camera. Howard first did a simple pointing run of 28 points with APCC (all done automatically while we were inside warming up with a cup of tea). With this simple model, we imaged for 10 minutes with no guiding whatsoever, and produced perfectly round stars down to the arc second. Later on we did a PEMPro run of the drift in the 2 axes, with and without pointing model engaged and recorded the following: without the pointing model, the overall star drift due to scope flex, atmospheric refraction, and other effects was approximately 5 arc seconds (mostly in RA) in a 35 minute time period. With the APCC pointing model turned on, we recorded a 5 times improvement, tracking the star down to less than 1 arc sec. In fact the drift was now lower than the atmospheric turbulance. We expect even better performance with a more extensive pointing model, which may very well eliminate the need for any kind of guiding in a well aligned observatory setup.

>

> That may be all well and good, you say, but what about those of us who don't want to spring for the added expense of the encoders. What can you do for our situation? Well, remember, that the basic accuracy of the worm gear will be guaranteed to be 5 arc sec or less, and with the apllication of PEMPro, you can compensate for that down to 1 arc sec or less using the PEM function that has always been in our mount. On top of that, we will also have optional homing and limit switches that can be attached inside the RA and DEC axes and set to your specific needs. Thus, you can set the tracking/slewing limits to any place from the meridian to the western horizon, depending on your scope setup and the amount of clearance that you have. Now you don't have to worry that the scope will continue to track all night and next day if you forget to turn off power, and wrap all your camera and accessory cords, or run the scope into your observatory roof. The homing position is also settable, starting off in the Park2 position, but can be moved around to any other spot in the sky. And of course you can also use APCC to build a pointing model to do unguided imaging just like above, but within the accuracy of the worm gear and your PE compensation. The home function uses a mechanical switch to recover the mount from a lost situation to within 2 - 3 arc minutes. You can then do a plate solve to get dead nuts on.

>

> The idea of the 1600 was to design a mount that can meet the basic needs of just about any application, and then can be built upon as the need arises with hardware and software options. All these options are customer installable, no need to tear down the mount or send it in. Believe me, even without the encoders, in its basic mode this is a highly precise mount, second to none. It can hold a lot of weight, and can shrug off external disturbances like wind load on long tubes. We have a number of pier and tripod options that cover just about any application from portable to semi-permanent observatory setups (permanent piers you will need to engineer on your own).

>

> I am as excited about this product as I have ever been on anything we have ever made here, and I'm looking forward to seeing some of you in Tuscon and at AIC in California in the next few weeks.

>

> Rolando

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>







----------------------------

#37997 Oct 10, 2012

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

> On top of that, we will also have optional homing and limit switches that can be attached inside the RA and DEC axes and set to your specific >needs.



Rolando,



Would these switches also be available for the 1200 mount?



Parijat



----------------------------

#37998 Oct 10, 2012

The 1600 mount has a totally new design. These options are designed to fit the 1600 mount, which is quite different internally than the 1200. We do not have any easy way to attach an optional limit and homing system onto the 1200 mount.



Roland









-----Original Message-----

From: photonphisher parijat_singh@...>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wed, Oct 10, 2012 6:35 pm

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1600 mount tests





> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

> On top of that, we will also have optional homing and limit switches that can

be attached inside the RA and DEC axes and set to your specific >needs.



Rolando,



Would these switches also be available for the 1200 mount?



Parijat







---------------



To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#38006 Oct 11, 2012

Hi all,



I am a proud owner of an "old" AP1200GTO set in my backyard observatory. I would like to change for the new sweet16 and before ordering this very exciting mount, I would like to know the overall dimension (similar to my venerable AP1200 ?) and specially,

the height from the base of the mount to the dec axis when the mount is in park 1 position (dec axis is horizontal). My latitude is about 49. N.

I do not want to cut the roof of my observatory...



Many thanks,



Marc

www.astrosurf.com/jousset

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

>

>

> The 1600 mount has a totally new design. These options are designed to fit the 1600 mount, which is quite different internally than the 1200. We do not have any easy way to attach an optional limit and homing system onto the 1200 mount.

>

> Roland

>

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: photonphisher parijat_singh@...>

> To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Wed, Oct 10, 2012 6:35 pm

> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1600 mount tests

>

>

>

> > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@ wrote:

> > On top of that, we will also have optional homing and limit switches that can

> be attached inside the RA and DEC axes and set to your specific >needs.

>

> Rolando,

>

> Would these switches also be available for the 1200 mount?

>

> Parijat

>

>

>

---------------

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



----------------------------

#38007 Oct 11, 2012

Maybe Team AP could update latitude-dimension-calc2.xls with the new 1600 and 3600 in the files section?



Timing is an issue right now as there are two shows on the Left Coast they will be attending.



Tom --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "marcjousset" mj.astro@...> wrote:

>

> Hi all,

>

> I am a proud owner of an "old" AP1200GTO set in my backyard observatory. I would like to change for the new sweet16 and before ordering this very exciting mount, I would like to know the overall dimension (similar to my venerable AP1200 ?) and specially,

> the height from the base of the mount to the dec axis when the mount is in park 1 position (dec axis is horizontal). My latitude is about 49. N.

> I do not want to cut the roof of my observatory...

>

> Many thanks,

>

> Marc

> www.astrosurf.com/jousset

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > The 1600 mount has a totally new design. These options are designed to fit the 1600 mount, which is quite different internally than the 1200. We do not have any easy way to attach an optional limit and homing system onto the 1200 mount.

> >

> > Roland

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: photonphisher parijat_singh@>

> > To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

> > Sent: Wed, Oct 10, 2012 6:35 pm

> > Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1600 mount tests

> >

> >

> >

> > > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@ wrote:

> > > On top of that, we will also have optional homing and limit switches that can

> > be attached inside the RA and DEC axes and set to your specific >needs.

> >

> > Rolando,

> >

> > Would these switches also be available for the 1200 mount?

> >

> > Parijat

> >

> >

> >

---------------

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>







----------------------------

#38022 Oct 12, 2012

Yes, it should be fine to update the .xls with the new 1600.



At this time, I juste need one dimension to be sure the 1600 is OK with my observatory... I know there are two shows on the shelf but it should be kindly if one member of the Ap team could do that measurement for me. It doesn't take so many time...



Thanks,



Marc

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "tucstargzr" tucstargzr@...> wrote:

>

> Maybe Team AP could update latitude-dimension-calc2.xls with the new 1600 and 3600 in the files section?

>

> Timing is an issue right now as there are two shows on the Left Coast they will be attending.

>

> Tom

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "marcjousset" mj.astro@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I am a proud owner of an "old" AP1200GTO set in my backyard observatory. I would like to change for the new sweet16 and before ordering this very exciting mount, I would like to know the overall dimension (similar to my venerable AP1200 ?) and specially,

> > the height from the base of the mount to the dec axis when the mount is in park 1 position (dec axis is horizontal). My latitude is about 49. N.

> > I do not want to cut the roof of my observatory...

> >

> > Many thanks,

> >

> > Marc

> > www.astrosurf.com/jousset

> >

> > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > The 1600 mount has a totally new design. These options are designed to fit the 1600 mount, which is quite different internally than the 1200. We do not have any easy way to attach an optional limit and homing system onto the 1200 mount.

> > >

> > > Roland

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From: photonphisher parijat_singh@>

> > > To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

> > > Sent: Wed, Oct 10, 2012 6:35 pm

> > > Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1600 mount tests

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@ wrote:

> > > > On top of that, we will also have optional homing and limit switches that can

> > > be attached inside the RA and DEC axes and set to your specific >needs.

> > >

> > > Rolando,

> > >

> > > Would these switches also be available for the 1200 mount?

> > >

> > > Parijat

> > >

> > >

> > >

---------------

> > >

> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> > > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

>



----------------------------

#38024 Oct 12, 2012

Hi Marc,



I can tell you right now that at 42 deg Lat., that dimension for the 1600GTO is 17 7/8". At 53 deg. it is 19 3/8". A good guess for 49 deg. would be about 19. I will try to get the spreadsheet done today, but I cannot make any guarantees at the moment.



Mag. 7 Skies!



Howard Hedlund

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone: 815-282-1513

www.astro-physics.comwww.astro-physics.com/>

Please include this e-mail with your response.



P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.





From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of marcjousset

Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 7:24 AM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1600 mount tests







Yes, it should be fine to update the .xls with the new 1600.



At this time, I juste need one dimension to be sure the 1600 is OK with my observatory... I know there are two shows on the shelf but it should be kindly if one member of the Ap team could do that measurement for me. It doesn't take so many time...



Thanks,



Marc

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.commailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>, "tucstargzr" tucstargzr@...mailto:tucstargzr@...>> wrote:

>

> Maybe Team AP could update latitude-dimension-calc2.xls with the new 1600 and 3600 in the files section?

>

> Timing is an issue right now as there are two shows on the Left Coast they will be attending.

>

> Tom

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.commailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>, "marcjousset" mj.astro@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I am a proud owner of an "old" AP1200GTO set in my backyard observatory. I would like to change for the new sweet16 and before ordering this very exciting mount, I would like to know the overall dimension (similar to my venerable AP1200 ?) and specially,

> > the height from the base of the mount to the dec axis when the mount is in park 1 position (dec axis is horizontal). My latitude is about 49. N.

> > I do not want to cut the roof of my observatory...

> >

> > Many thanks,

> >

> > Marc

> > www.astrosurf.com/jousset

> >

> > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.commailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>, chris1011@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > The 1600 mount has a totally new design. These options are designed to fit the 1600 mount, which is quite different internally than the 1200. We do not have any easy way to attach an optional limit and homing system onto the 1200 mount.

> > >

> > > Roland

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From: photonphisher parijat_singh@>

> > > To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.commailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>>

> > > Sent: Wed, Oct 10, 2012 6:35 pm

> > > Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1600 mount tests

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.commailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>, chris1011@ wrote:

> > > > On top of that, we will also have optional homing and limit switches that can

> > > be attached inside the RA and DEC axes and set to your specific >needs.

> > >

> > > Rolando,

> > >

> > > Would these switches also be available for the 1200 mount?

> > >

> > > Parijat

> > >

> > >

> > >

---------------

> > >

> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> > > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#38031 Oct 12, 2012

Hello Howard,



I am also interested to get the spreadsheet!



Konstantin



Konstantin v. Poschinger



Hammerichstr. 5

22605 Hamburg

040/8805747

0171 1983476



Am 12.10.2012 um 17:29 schrieb Howard:

> Hi Marc,

>

> I can tell you right now that at 42 deg Lat., that dimension for the 1600GTO is 17 7/8". At 53 deg. it is 19 3/8". A good guess for 49 deg. would be about 19. I will try to get the spreadsheet done today, but I cannot make any guarantees at the moment.

>

> Mag. 7 Skies!

>

> Howard Hedlund

> Astro-Physics, Inc.

> Phone: 815-282-1513

> www.astro-physics.comwww.astro-physics.com/>

> Please include this e-mail with your response.

>

> P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

>

> From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of marcjousset

> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 7:24 AM

> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1600 mount tests

>

> Yes, it should be fine to update the .xls with the new 1600.

>

> At this time, I juste need one dimension to be sure the 1600 is OK with my observatory... I know there are two shows on the shelf but it should be kindly if one member of the Ap team could do that measurement for me. It doesn't take so many time...

>

> Thanks,

>

> Marc

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.commailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>, "tucstargzr" tucstargzr@...mailto:tucstargzr@...>> wrote:

> >

> > Maybe Team AP could update latitude-dimension-calc2.xls with the new 1600 and 3600 in the files section?

> >

> > Timing is an issue right now as there are two shows on the Left Coast they will be attending.

> >

> > Tom

> > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.commailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>, "marcjousset" mj.astro@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > I am a proud owner of an "old" AP1200GTO set in my backyard observatory. I would like to change for the new sweet16 and before ordering this very exciting mount, I would like to know the overall dimension (similar to my venerable AP1200 ?) and specially,

> > > the height from the base of the mount to the dec axis when the mount is in park 1 position (dec axis is horizontal). My latitude is about 49. N.

> > > I do not want to cut the roof of my observatory...

> > >

> > > Many thanks,

> > >

> > > Marc

> > > www.astrosurf.com/jousset

> > >

> > > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.commailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>, chris1011@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > The 1600 mount has a totally new design. These options are designed to fit the 1600 mount, which is quite different internally than the 1200. We do not have any easy way to attach an optional limit and homing system onto the 1200 mount.

> > > >

> > > > Roland

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -----Original Message-----

> > > > From: photonphisher parijat_singh@>

> > > > To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.commailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>>

> > > > Sent: Wed, Oct 10, 2012 6:35 pm

> > > > Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1600 mount tests

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.commailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>, chris1011@ wrote:

> > > > > On top of that, we will also have optional homing and limit switches that can

> > > > be attached inside the RA and DEC axes and set to your specific >needs.

> > > >

> > > > Rolando,

> > > >

> > > > Would these switches also be available for the 1200 mount?

> > > >

> > > > Parijat

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

---------------

> > > >

> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> > > > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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