RE: [ap-gto] 1600 gear mesh procedure (HOWARD)


Apr 3, 2014

 


----------------------------

#43593 Apr 3, 2014

Question for the AP guys.



If you have one of the newer AP mounts, located in a permanent

observatory, should you periodically reset the gear mesh?



I ask this because my 1600, which has been close to perfect since 2012,

has recently started to move about 5 pixels east in RA and then a few

minutes later about 5 pixels west in RA. I confirmed that it is RA by

moving it E & W with the Ascom Driver. This started happening a few

nights ago near the east meridian. It is now happening regularly on the

first one or two eastern images and then randomly during the night.

Once the object crosses the meridian it seems to stop. The observatory

is remote and no one has been inside in months.



Any ideas?



Jim



----------------------------

#43603 Apr 4, 2014

Jim,

maybe some flexure in the scope, or the focuser assembly?

Gilles

Gilles COHEN

www.ovision.com/Gilles_Home.html







-----E-mail d'origine-----

De : James Janusz jjanusz@...>

A: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Envoy. le : Ve, 4 Avr 2014 20:44

Sujet : Re: [ap-gto] 1600 Gear Mesh



��Hi Roland.�� Good to know about the yearly maintenance.��Unfortunately, the mount is unbalanced to the weight shaft side.�� AsI said, the mount never did that before until the other night.��Nothing has changed but I'm now losing a few subs during the nightto this problem.�� Last night only one sub failed at around 10:30 andthe object transited at 10:42.�� It sometimes also happens on thefirst one or two subs with the object about 40 degrees and rising.����Last night I waited until it was at 50 degrees and no failures.�� I'mnow done with this object so it will be interesting to see if thiscontinues.�� I did make one mistake in my original email.�� The 1600has only been in since October 2013.�� But has worked flawlesslyuntil now.

Based on what I have given you, what is your best idea to thecause?�� Remote observatories do have their issues.

Jim

On 4/4/2014 9:59 AM, chris1011@...wrote:

Check your gearmesh about once per year. Add some lube tothe spur gears inside the gearbox also.��One way to avoid what you are seeing is to unbalance the RAaxis by a few pounds (make the counterweights a bit heavy).That way the gear teeth will always be engaged and won't floatin between. The problem that you report will go away.��Rolando-----Original Message-----From: James Janusz jjanusz@...>To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thu, Apr 3, 2014 8:34 pmSubject: [ap-gto] 1600 Gear Mesh

Question for the AP guys.

If you have one of the newer AP mounts, located in a permanent observatory, should you periodically reset the gear mesh?

I ask this because my 1600, which has been close to perfect since 2012, has recently started to move about 5 pixels east in RA and then a few minutes later about 5 pixels west in RA. I confirmed that it is RA by moving it E & W with the Ascom Driver. This started happening a few nights ago near the east meridian. It is now happening regularly on the first one or two eastern images and then randomly during the night. Once the object crosses the meridian it seems to stop. The observatory is remote and no one has been inside in months.

Any ideas?

Jim



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----------------------------

#43613 Apr 4, 2014

It's a separate guide scope so that is a possibility.. I'll have tocheck it next time I'm out there.



Thanks Gilles.



Jim

On 4/4/2014 12:16 PM, Gilles COHENwrote:

Jim,

maybe some flexure in the scope, or the focuser assembly?



Gilles

Gilles COHEN

www.ovision.com/Gilles_Home.html







-----E-mail d'origine-----

De : James Janusz jjanusz@...>

A: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Envoy. le : Ve, 4 Avr 2014 20:44

Sujet : Re: [ap-gto] 1600 Gear Mesh



. Hi Roland.. Good to know about the yearlymaintenance.. Unfortunately, the mount isunbalanced to the weight shaft side.. As I said,the mount never did that before until the othernight.. Nothing has changed but I'm now losing afew subs during the night to this problem.. Lastnight only one sub failed at around 10:30 andthe object transited at 10:42.. It sometimesalso happens on the first one or two subs withthe object about 40 degrees and rising... Lastnight I waited until it was at 50 degrees and nofailures.. I'm now done with this object so itwill be interesting to see if this continues.. Idid make one mistake in my original email.. The1600 has only been in since October 2013.. Buthas worked flawlessly until now.



Based on what I have given you, what is yourbest idea to the cause?. Remote observatories dohave their issues.



Jim



On 4/4/2014 9:59 AM,chris1011@...wrote:

Check your gearmesh about once per year.Add some lube to the spur gears inside thegearbox also..One way to avoid what you are seeing isto unbalance the RA axis by a few pounds(make the counterweights a bit heavy). Thatway the gear teeth will always be engagedand won't float in between. The problem thatyou report will go away..Rolando-----OriginalMessage-----

From: James Janusz jjanusz@...>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thu, Apr 3, 2014 8:34 pm

Subject: [ap-gto] 1600 Gear Mesh

Question for the AP guys.

If you have one of the newer AP mounts, located in a permanent observatory, should you periodically reset the gear mesh?

I ask this because my 1600, which has been close to perfect since 2012, has recently started to move about 5 pixels east in RA and then a few minutes later about 5 pixels west in RA. I confirmed that it is RA by moving it E & W with the Ascom Driver. This started happening a few nights ago near the east meridian. It is now happening regularly on the first one or two eastern images and then randomly during the night. Once the object crosses the meridian it seems to stop. The observatory is remote and no one has been inside in months.

Any ideas?

Jim



---------------

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----------------------------

#43617 Apr 4, 2014

Another item to consider is the tightness of all your bolts and screws. ��The day and night thermal expansion can loosen bolts and screws. ��In my case the bolts holding the dovetail plate to the mount loosened a little. ��It was not very loose, but it did affect the tracking. ��The errors disappeared after tightening everything.

Alan

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 4, 2014, at 4:57 PM, James Janusz jjanusz@...> wrote:



It's a separate guide scope so that is a possibility.�� I'll have tocheck it next time I'm out there.



Thanks Gilles.



Jim

On 4/4/2014 12:16 PM, Gilles COHENwrote:

Jim,

maybe some flexure in the scope, or the focuser assembly?



Gilles

Gilles COHEN

www.ovision.com/Gilles_Home.html







-----E-mail d'origine-----

De : James Janusz jjanusz@...>

A: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Envoy. le : Ve, 4 Avr 2014 20:44

Sujet : Re: [ap-gto] 1600 Gear Mesh



�� Hi Roland.�� Good to know about the yearlymaintenance.�� Unfortunately, the mount isunbalanced to the weight shaft side.�� As I said,the mount never did that before until the othernight.�� Nothing has changed but I'm now losing afew subs during the night to this problem.�� Lastnight only one sub failed at around 10:30 andthe object transited at 10:42.�� It sometimesalso happens on the first one or two subs withthe object about 40 degrees and rising.���� Lastnight I waited until it was at 50 degrees and nofailures.�� I'm now done with this object so itwill be interesting to see if this continues.�� Idid make one mistake in my original email.�� The1600 has only been in since October 2013.�� Buthas worked flawlessly until now.



Based on what I have given you, what is yourbest idea to the cause?�� Remote observatories dohave their issues.



Jim



On 4/4/2014 9:59 AM,chris1011@...wrote:

Check your gearmesh about once per year.Add some lube to the spur gears inside thegearbox also.��One way to avoid what you are seeing isto unbalance the RA axis by a few pounds(make the counterweights a bit heavy). Thatway the gear teeth will always be engagedand won't float in between. The problem thatyou report will go away.��Rolando-----OriginalMessage-----

From: James Janusz jjanusz@...>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thu, Apr 3, 2014 8:34 pm

Subject: [ap-gto] 1600 Gear Mesh

Question for the AP guys.

If you have one of the newer AP mounts, located in a permanent observatory, should you periodically reset the gear mesh?

I ask this because my 1600, which has been close to perfect since 2012, has recently started to move about 5 pixels east in RA and then a few minutes later about 5 pixels west in RA. I confirmed that it is RA by moving it E & W with the Ascom Driver. This started happening a few nights ago near the east meridian. It is now happening regularly on the first one or two eastern images and then randomly during the night. Once the object crosses the meridian it seems to stop. The observatory is remote and no one has been inside in months.

Any ideas?

Jim



---------------

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----------------------------

#49781 Dec 17, 2015

You're going to be out there anyway, just plug in the keypad.��Rolando����-----Original Message-----

From: James Janusz jjanusz@... [ap-gto] ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thu, Dec 17, 2015 7:49 pm

Subject: [ap-gto] 1600 Gear Mesh



I'm planning on checking the gear mesh on my 1600 and I have a

question. Is there a method in the AP Ascom driver to cause the motor

to run at 64x continuously? I almost never connect the hand controller

but I don't see a way to do that from the computer.



Jim







---------------

Posted by: James Janusz jjanusz@...>

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----------------------------

#49782 Dec 17, 2015

That's a good question. Now A-P is selling their mounts without keyapd, is it still possible to re-mesh the gears without keypad for newest A-P mounts when the mount moves continuously at 64X? Is it possible to do that with ASCOM driver by pressing and holding the ASCOM driver's directional button controls and then disconnect the serial cable from the mount as if disconnecting keypad from the mount?

Peter

---In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, jjanusz@...> wrote :

I'm planning on checking the gear mesh on my 1600 and I have a

question. Is there a method in the AP Ascom driver to cause the motor

to run at 64x continuously? I almost never connect the hand controller

but I don't see a way to do that from the computer.



Jim



----------------------------

#49783 Dec 17, 2015

You don't really need to move the 1600 mount when re-meshing. A simple loosening and tightening of the two screws will do the trick.��Rolando����-----Original Message-----

From: pnagy@... [ap-gto] ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thu, Dec 17, 2015 9:54 pm

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1600 Gear Mesh





That's a good question. Now A-P is selling their mounts without keyapd, is it still possible to re-mesh the gears without keypad for newest A-P mounts when the mount moves continuously at 64X? Is it possible to do that with ASCOM driver by pressing and holding the ASCOM driver's directional button controls and then disconnect the serial cable from the mount as if disconnecting keypad from the mount?



Peter



---In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, jjanusz@...> wrote :

I'm planning on checking the gear mesh on my 1600 and I have a question. Is there a method in the AP Ascom driver to cause the motor to run at 64x continuously? I almost never connect the hand controller but I don't see a way to do that from the computer.

Jim



----------------------------

#49784 Dec 17, 2015

That's great.. Thank you.



Jim

On 12/17/2015 8:09 PM,chris1011@... [ap-gto] wrote:

You don't really need to move the1600 mount when re-meshing. A simple loosening andtightening of the two screws will do the trick..Rolando..-----Original Message-----

From: pnagy@... [ap-gto]ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thu, Dec 17, 2015 9:54 pm

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1600 Gear Mesh







That's a good question. Now A-P is selling their mountswithout keyapd, is it still possible to re-mesh the gearswithout keypad for newest A-P mounts when the mount movescontinuously at 64X? Is it possible to do that with ASCOMdriver by pressing and holding the ASCOM driver'sdirectional button controls and then disconnect the serialcable from the mount as if disconnecting keypad from themount?



Peter



---In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com,jjanusz@...> wrote :

I'm planning on checkingthe gear mesh on my 1600 and I have a

question. Is there a method in the AP Ascom driver tocause the motor

to run at 64x continuously? I almost never connect thehand controller

but I don't see a way to do that from the computer.



Jim



----------------------------

#49786 Dec 18, 2015

Is the same true for the Mach 1?



----------------------------

#49789 Dec 18, 2015

You can do gear mesh without moving the axis.��Rolando����-----Original Message-----

From: dsidote@... [ap-gto] ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2015 11:04 am

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: 1600 Gear Mesh





Is the same true for the Mach 1?



----------------------------

#49793 Dec 18, 2015

Ditto the 1100



----------------------------

#53860 Sep 3, 2016

I spoke to Howard some months ago and he offered analternate gear mesh procedure for my 1600GTO (still with CP3 and standard gearboxes).�� If I remember correctly, he offered putting the mount in Park 1(counterweight shaft down, OTA pointed north), loosening the lock down screws onthe gear box, and moving the mount in RA or DEC depending on the axis beingadjusted, similar to the documented procedure.�� He offered two thingsthough, giving the gear boxes a gentle rap or two and putting a couple offingers (pointer and middle finger) between the bottom of the gearbox and topof the mount and then tightening the lock down screws. ��Since it is some time since I have adjusted the gear mesh, Iam trying to remember if this is correct.�� anyone have any input, orHoward if you can chime in... ��Thanks... ��Mike J. Shade: mshade@...Mike J. Shade Photography:mshadephotography.com ��In War: ResolutionIn Defeat: DefianceIn Victory: MagnanimityIn Peace: GoodwillSir WinstonChurchillAlready, in the gatheringdusk, a few of the stars are turning on their lights.Vega, the brightest one, isnow dropping towards the west.�� Can it be halfa year since I watched herApril rising in the east?�� Low in the southwestAntares blinks a sad farwellto fall...Leslie Peltier, StarlightNights ��International Dark SkyAssociation: www.darksky.org ��



----------------------------

#53862 Sep 3, 2016

Mike, that sounds odd. Scott Hammonds posted a video of cleaning and remeshing the gears on his 1200 GTO CP3. I'd look at that.

Stuart

On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 7:00 PM, 'Mike Shade' mshade@... [ap-gto] ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

.I spoke to Howard some months ago and he offered analternate gear mesh procedure for my 1600GTO (still with CP3 and standard gearboxes).. If I remember correctly, he offered putting the mount in Park 1(counterweight shaft down, OTA pointed north), loosening the lock down screws onthe gear box, and moving the mount in RA or DEC depending on the axis beingadjusted, similar to the documented procedure.. He offered two thingsthough, giving the gear boxes a gentle rap or two and putting a couple offingers (pointer and middle finger) between the bottom of the gearbox and topof the mount and then tightening the lock down screws..Since it is some time since I have adjusted the gear mesh, Iam trying to remember if this is correct.. anyone have any input, orHoward if you can chime in....Thanks... .Mike J. Shade: mshade@...Mike J. Shade Photography:mshadephotography.com.In War: ResolutionIn Defeat: DefianceIn Victory: MagnanimityIn Peace: GoodwillSir WinstonChurchillAlready, in the gatheringdusk, a few of the stars are turning on their lights.Vega, the brightest one, isnow dropping towards the west.. Can it be halfa year since I watched herApril rising in the east?. Low in the southwestAntares blinks a sad farwellto fall...Leslie Peltier, StarlightNights.International Dark SkyAssociation: www.darksky.org.







----------------------------

#53863 Sep 3, 2016

Best to do RA gear mesh with the mount in Park2 position with scope on top and counterweights pointed straight down. That way, if your RA axis is unbalanced, it will not affect your mesh procedure.��Dec gear mesh is best done in Park3 position so that any unbalance in Dec will not affect the mesh.��Rolando����-----Original Message-----

From: 'Mike Shade' mshade@... [ap-gto] ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Sat, Sep 3, 2016 6:00 pm

Subject: [ap-gto] 1600 gear mesh procedure (HOWARD)





I spoke to Howard some months ago and he offered analternate gear mesh procedure for my 1600GTO (still with CP3 and standard gearboxes).�� If I remember correctly, he offered putting the mount in Park 1(counterweight shaft down, OTA pointed north), loosening the lock down screws onthe gear box, and moving the mount in RA or DEC depending on the axis beingadjusted, similar to the documented procedure.�� He offered two thingsthough, giving the gear boxes a gentle rap or two and putting a couple offingers (pointer and middle finger) between the bottom of the gearbox and topof the mount and then tightening the lock down screws.��Since it is some time since I have adjusted the gear mesh, Iam trying to remember if this is correct.�� anyone have any input, orHoward if you can chime in...��Thanks...��Mike J. Shade: mshade@...Mike J. Shade Photography:mshadephotography.com��In War: ResolutionIn Defeat: DefianceIn Victory: MagnanimityIn Peace: GoodwillSir WinstonChurchillAlready, in the gatheringdusk, a few of the stars are turning on their lights.Vega, the brightest one, isnow dropping towards the west.�� Can it be halfa year since I watched herApril rising in the east?�� Low in the southwestAntares blinks a sad farwellto fall...Leslie Peltier, StarlightNights��International Dark SkyAssociation: www.darksky.org��



----------------------------

#53866 Sep 3, 2016

You can do both RA and Dec in Park3 if you wish. ��Rolando����-----Original Message-----

From: 'Mike Shade' mshade@... [ap-gto] ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Sat, Sep 3, 2016 6:33 pm

Subject: RE: [ap-gto] 1600 gear mesh procedure (HOWARD)



I'm trying to rack my brain and remember what Howard told me, it was easy and accurate.







I do seem to remember that he offered to do both adjustments with the mount starting in about Park 3, loosen lock down screws, move mount at 64X, put a couple of fingers under edge of gear box between it and mount and then tighten...I think...







Mike J. Shade: mshade@...



Mike J. Shade Photography:



mshadephotography.com







In War: Resolution



In Defeat: Defiance



In Victory: Magnanimity



In Peace: Goodwill



Sir Winston Churchill



Already, in the gathering dusk, a few of the stars are turning on their lights.



Vega, the brightest one, is now dropping towards the west. Can it be half



a year since I watched her April rising in the east? Low in the southwest



Antares blinks a sad farwell to fall...



Leslie Peltier, Starlight Nights







International Dark Sky Association: www.darksky.org/> www.darksky.org







From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]

Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2016 4:16 PM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1600 gear mesh procedure (HOWARD)











Best to do RA gear mesh with the mount in Park2 position with scope on top and counterweights pointed straight down. That way, if your RA axis is unbalanced, it will not affect your mesh procedure.







Dec gear mesh is best done in Park3 position so that any unbalance in Dec will not affect the mesh.







Rolando











-----Original Message-----

From: 'Mike Shade' mshade@... [ap-gto] ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Sat, Sep 3, 2016 6:00 pm

Subject: [ap-gto] 1600 gear mesh procedure (HOWARD)







I spoke to Howard some months ago and he offered an alternate gear mesh procedure for my 1600GTO (still with CP3 and standard gear boxes). If I remember correctly, he offered putting the mount in Park 1 (counterweight shaft down, OTA pointed north), loosening the lock down screws on the gear box, and moving the mount in RA or DEC depending on the axis being adjusted, similar to the documented procedure. He offered two things though, giving the gear boxes a gentle rap or two and putting a couple of fingers (pointer and middle finger) between the bottom of the gearbox and top of the mount and then tightening the lock down screws.







Since it is some time since I have adjusted the gear mesh, I am trying to remember if this is correct. anyone have any input, or Howard if you can chime in...







Thanks...







Mike J. Shade: mshade@...



Mike J. Shade Photography:



mshadephotography.com







In War: Resolution



In Defeat: Defiance



In Victory: Magnanimity



In Peace: Goodwill



Sir Winston Churchill



Already, in the gathering dusk, a few of the stars are turning on their lights.



Vega, the brightest one, is now dropping towards the west. Can it be half



a year since I watched her April rising in the east? Low in the southwest



Antares blinks a sad farwell to fall...



Leslie Peltier, Starlight Nights







International Dark Sky Association: www.darksky.org www.darksky.org/>



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







---------------

Posted by: "Mike Shade" mshade@...>

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----------------------------

#53870 Sep 3, 2016

Hi Mike, ��IMPORTANT!�� The text below applies to mounts before the current runs with the spring loaded gearboxes.�� These mounts are always in perfect mesh, so DON.T messwith them!In your original post you described Park 3, but called it Park 1.�� I think that started some confusion in the thread.As Roland points out, Park 3 is used to take any possible imbalance out of the picture that might affect the ability to get the proper mesh.�� Sometimes, Park2 is a little easier for doing RA since it gets the back of the scope out of the way, but Park 3 is basically always balance neutral.The 64X trick and the finger trick are some things that we don.t generally recommend as .normal. procedures.�� They are things that we have learned will sometimeshelp if a mount is being stubborn and the customer is having trouble getting things just right.The 64X trick:Put the mount in Park 3, but move it a little east of perfect park 3 for RA, or a little north of p3 for Dec.�� (about 10 seconds with the keypad at 64X workswell.)Set tracking to STOPLoosen the bolts that lock the gearbox in mesh.��

Wiggle or lightly finger-tap the gearbox to get the worm back fully into mesh.Bring the locking bolts to where they are just about to make snugging contact.Get ready for a quick actionPress and hold the West button for RA, or the south for Dec.While holding the West or South button, quickly unplug the keypad.Finish tightening the gearbox bolts while the axis continues to move at 64XWhen tight, plug the keypad back in and press the stop button.Test and verify the mesh.The finger trick�� 1600 and 1100 mounts only . mostly 1600sThese gearboxes have springs that help get the mount into mesh.�� They are not the same as the new spring loaded gearboxes.While these springs can help to engage the worm properly when re-meshing, they can also sometimes introduce a very slight tilt to the box while it is loose.The symptoms of this are that the mesh appears perfect until the final tightening of the locking bolts.�� Then it is too tight.If this happens to you, try getting the bolts just to the contact point a fraction of a turn before they would start to snug up.��

Now, use a finger or two (1600) or something like a popsicle stick (1100) to very gently lift the back of the gearbox up to remove this tilt before finishingthe tightening.Test and verify the mesh.Please remember.�� Use the method on the latest manual for your mount.�� Don.t try these 2 tricks starting out.�� They add unneeded complexity unless trial and failuredictate them.�� ��Mag. 7 Skies! ��Howard HedlundAstro-Physics, Inc.Phone: 815-282-1513www.astro-physics.comPlease include this e-mail with your response. ��PConsider the environment before printing this e-mail. ��

��From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]

Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2016 11:48 PM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1600 gear mesh procedure (HOWARD)



----------------------------

#53871 Sep 3, 2016

I need to clarify my first paragraph . The brand new mounts with the spring loaded gearboxes are always in perfect mesh. If your gearbox has the lever to disengagefor balancing, don.t try to mess with the gear mesh.���� The instructions that follow are for mounts that do NOT have the spring loaded gearboxes. ��Mag. 7 Skies! ��Howard HedlundAstro-Physics, Inc.Phone: 815-282-1513www.astro-physics.comPlease include this e-mail with your response. ��PConsider the environment before printing this e-mail. ��

��From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]

Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2016 12:42 AM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [ap-gto] 1600 gear mesh procedure (HOWARD)



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