RE: [ap-gto] RE: 1600 absolute encoder questions


Oct 15, 2013

 


----------------------------

#42091 Oct 15, 2013

Couple questions about the absolute encoders.



What's the function of the LEDs? Do they have a purpose?



Are the encoders last state aware? If the encoders are on when I turn the mount off and then when I turn the mount on are the encoders on? And vise versa? Or do I always need to run the utility to turn the encoders on after a power cycle?



Is there a visual cue on the mount that tells me if the encoders are on or off?



Thanks.



Dave Goodyear



Sent from my iPhone



----------------------------

#42093 Oct 16, 2013

Thanks for the clarification George!

Gotta love encoders. Ran a pempro test on the 1600 last night and the PE was less than .4 (4 tenths) with the encoders on and less than 1.5 with the encoders off!

Dave Goodyear

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 16, 2013, at 6:50 AM, "George" george@...> wrote:



 Dave,  The LED shows that the encoder is powered up and it reveals the signal strength.  The APAE Utility is used to turn on the absolute encoders.  You only need to do this once and they will automatically become active whenever you power up the mount. You willonly need to run the utility again if you want to turn off the encoders.  Simply turn them on and forget about them.they will do their job.  G>  If you want to see if they are on, you will have to start the utility and check the status.just like opening therefrigerator door to see if the light is on!  Regards,  George  George WhitneyAstro-Physics, Inc.Phone:  815-282-1513Email:  george@...

 From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dave Goodyear

Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 11:51 PM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [ap-gto] 1600 absolute encoder questions



----------------------------

#42094 Oct 16, 2013

Dave,  .and that was probably noise, seeing or otherwise!  G>  Regards,  George  George WhitneyAstro-Physics, Inc.Phone:  815-282-1513Email:  george@...

 From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dave Goodyear

Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 1:33 PM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RE: 1600 absolute encoder questions



----------------------------

#42096 Oct 16, 2013

Hi Roland,

I have some questions to the encoders:

1. How do I determine the home position?2. Can I use the mount with the Keypad, for example at daytime for observing the sun.3. When guiding with MaximDL, which way to connect the guider with the mount? Guider Relays or Telescope?

Konstantin



Konstantin v. Poschinger

Hammerichstr. 522605 Hamburg040/88057470171 1983476

Am 16.10.2013 um 21:48 schrieb chris1011@...:

 

Besides reducing the RA gear error down to below the seeing, the encoders have several functions that may not be apparent. 1) they are absolute encoders, so even if you get the mount lost by syncing on Altair when in fact the scope is pointing to Zubenelgenubi (I just love that name), you can instantly recover the exact gear angle by sending the mount to the reference home position. Absolute encoder means that the encoder ring has an embedded code written on every tick mark corresponding to the exact angle which is being pointed to on the gearwheel. 2) Being absolute encoders, the software can determine the gear angle at any time that the encoders are powered on. The mount does not even need to be powered or running, as long as the encoders are on, they can be queried as to position. 3) The encoders are accurate to sub-arc second level, so we use that to eliminate Dec reversal and backlash errors on both axes. In other words, we now close the loop on the axes so that every move command, no matter how small, will be acted upon and the axis will move to that position. Therefore, if your guide software determines that the Dec axis is off by 1 arc second and sends a corresponding 1 arc second move command, the encoder looop will make sure that the drive system actually moves by that exact amount, regardless of backlash, reversal delay, friction or whathaveyou. This all occurs in less than 100 milliseconds, and is very stable - no jitter or overshoot or hunting. This is just one more error that is eliminated to make guiding as accurate as possible. The color of the LED indicates whether or not the pickup is reading the encoder ring tick marks. A color of green or blue indicates proper operation. A yellow light indicates that the pickup is not at an optimal distance above the encoder ring and may not be reading the marks correctly. Rolando

-----Original Message-----

From: Dave Goodyear dave@...>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wed, Oct 16, 2013 1:32 pm

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RE: 1600 absolute encoder questions





Thanks for the clarification George!

Gotta love encoders. Ran a pempro test on the 1600 last night and the PE was less than .4 (4 tenths) with the encoders on and less than 1.5 with the encoders off!

Dave Goodyear



Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 16, 2013, at 6:50 AM, "George" george@...> wrote:



 Dave, The LED shows that the encoder is powered up and it reveals the signal strength. The APAE Utility is used to turn on the absolute encoders.  You only need to do this once and they will automatically become active whenever you power up the mount. You willonly need to run the utility again if you want to turn off the encoders.  Simply turn them on and forget about them.they will do their job.  G>  If you want to see if they are on, you will have to start the utility and check the status.just like opening therefrigerator door to see if the light is on!  Regards, George George WhitneyAstro-Physics, Inc.Phone:  815-282-1513Email:  george@...







----------------------------

#42097 Oct 16, 2013

1) You don't determine the home position. It is determined for you. The instructions for using the encoders is in the zip file which you should have gotten along with your mount. Home will always be with the scope pointing toward the North Celestial Pole (or South in the southern hemisphere). It is the safest position to recover the scope to, with the least possibility of crashing the scope if it happens to be in an unsafe position when you have gotten it lost. 2) Of course the keypad can always be used with the mount at any time. 3) You can connect the guider either way - relays or telescope, whichever suits you. Any specific questions can be answered by Howard. He is available to take your call or e-mail. The encoder function is real simple to set up. We have made it almost 100% automatic in the Encoder Utility. You just need to do a few simple things to determine your settings and limits to suit your preferences. The Utility will set up the logic in the AE micro for you to achieve your end goals. Rolando

-----Original Message-----

From: Konstantin v. Poschinger k.poschinger@...>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wed, Oct 16, 2013 3:52 pm

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RE: 1600 absolute encoder questions





Hi Roland,

I have some questions to the encoders:

1. How do I determine the home position?2. Can I use the mount with the Keypad, for example at daytime for observing the sun.3. When guiding with MaximDL, which way to connect the guider with the mount? Guider Relays or Telescope?

Konstantin



Konstantin v. Poschinger



Hammerichstr. 5

22605 Hamburg

040/8805747

0171 1983476

Am 16.10.2013 um 21:48 schrieb chris1011@...:



 

Besides reducing the RA gear error down to below the seeing, the encoders have several functions that may not be apparent.

 1) they are absolute encoders, so even if you get the mount lost by syncing on Altair when in fact the scope is pointing to Zubenelgenubi (I just love that name), you can instantly recover the exact gear angle by sending the mount to the reference home position. Absolute encoder means that the encoder ring has an embedded code written on every tick mark corresponding to the exact angle which is being pointed to on the gearwheel. 2) Being absolute encoders, the software can determine the gear angle at any time that the encoders are powered on. The mount does not even need to be powered or running, as long as the encoders are on, they can be queried as to position. 3) The encoders are accurate to sub-arc second level, so we use that to eliminate Dec reversal and backlash errors on both axes. In other words, we now close the loop on the axes so that every move command, no matter how small, will be acted upon and the axis will move to that position. Therefore, if your guide software determines that the Dec axis is off by 1 arc second and sends a corresponding 1 arc second move command, the encoder looop will make sure that the drive system actually moves by that exact amount, regardless of backlash, reversal delay, friction or whathaveyou. This all occurs in less than 100 milliseconds, and is very stable - no jitter or overshoot or hunting. This is just one more error that is eliminated to make guiding as accurate as possible. The color of the LED indicates whether or not the pickup is reading the encoder ring tick marks. A color of green or blue indicates proper operation. A yellow light indicates that the pickup is not at an optimal distance above the encoder ring and may not be reading the marks correctly. Rolando

-----Original Message-----From: Dave Goodyear dave@...>To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wed, Oct 16, 2013 1:32 pmSubject: Re: [ap-gto] RE: 1600 absolute encoder questions



Thanks for the clarification George!

Gotta love encoders. Ran a pempro test on the 1600 last night and the PE was less than .4 (4 tenths) with the encoders on and less than 1.5 with the encoders off!

Dave Goodyear

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 16, 2013, at 6:50 AM, "George" george@...> wrote:

 Dave, The LED shows that the encoder is powered up and it reveals the signal strength. The APAE Utility is used to turn on the absolute encoders.  You only need to do this once and they will automatically become active whenever you power up the mount. You willonly need to run the utility again if you want to turn off the encoders.  Simply turn them on and forget about them.they will do their job.  G>  If you want to see if they are on, you will have to start the utility and check the status.just like opening therefrigerator door to see if the light is on!  Regards, George George WhitneyAstro-Physics, Inc.Phone:  815-282-1513Email:  george@...



----------------------------

#42099 Oct 16, 2013

How can you use the keypad when the pc connection uses the keypad port on the cp3 control box?  

Dave Goodyear

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 16, 2013, at 2:28 PM, "chris1011@..." chris1011@...> wrote:



 

1) You don't determine the home position. It is determined for you. The instructions for using the encoders is in the zip file which you should have gotten along with your mount. Home will always be with the scope pointing toward the North Celestial Pole (or South in the southern hemisphere). It is the safest position to recover the scope to, with the least possibility of crashing the scope if it happens to be in an unsafe position when you have gotten it lost. 2) Of course the keypad can always be used with the mount at any time. 3) You can connect the guider either way - relays or telescope, whichever suits you. Any specific questions can be answered by Howard. He is available to take your call or e-mail. The encoder function is real simple to set up. We have made it almost 100% automatic in the Encoder Utility. You just need to do a few simple things to determine your settings and limits to suit your preferences. The Utility will set up the logic in the AE micro for you to achieve your end goals. Rolando

-----Original Message-----

From: Konstantin v. Poschinger k.poschinger@...>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wed, Oct 16, 2013 3:52 pm

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RE: 1600 absolute encoder questions





Hi Roland,

I have some questions to the encoders:

1. How do I determine the home position?2. Can I use the mount with the Keypad, for example at daytime for observing the sun.3. When guiding with MaximDL, which way to connect the guider with the mount? Guider Relays or Telescope?

Konstantin



Konstantin v. Poschinger



Hammerichstr. 5

22605 Hamburg

040/8805747

0171 1983476

Am 16.10.2013 um 21:48 schrieb chris1011@...:



 

Besides reducing the RA gear error down to below the seeing, the encoders have several functions that may not be apparent.

 1) they are absolute encoders, so even if you get the mount lost by syncing on Altair when in fact the scope is pointing to Zubenelgenubi (I just love that name), you can instantly recover the exact gear angle by sending the mount to the reference home position. Absolute encoder means that the encoder ring has an embedded code written on every tick mark corresponding to the exact angle which is being pointed to on the gearwheel. 2) Being absolute encoders, the software can determine the gear angle at any time that the encoders are powered on. The mount does not even need to be powered or running, as long as the encoders are on, they can be queried as to position. 3) The encoders are accurate to sub-arc second level, so we use that to eliminate Dec reversal and backlash errors on both axes. In other words, we now close the loop on the axes so that every move command, no matter how small, will be acted upon and the axis will move to that position. Therefore, if your guide software determines that the Dec axis is off by 1 arc second and sends a corresponding 1 arc second move command, the encoder looop will make sure that the drive system actually moves by that exact amount, regardless of backlash, reversal delay, friction or whathaveyou. This all occurs in less than 100 milliseconds, and is very stable - no jitter or overshoot or hunting. This is just one more error that is eliminated to make guiding as accurate as possible. The color of the LED indicates whether or not the pickup is reading the encoder ring tick marks. A color of green or blue indicates proper operation. A yellow light indicates that the pickup is not at an optimal distance above the encoder ring and may not be reading the marks correctly. Rolando

-----Original Message-----From: Dave Goodyear dave@...>To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wed, Oct 16, 2013 1:32 pmSubject: Re: [ap-gto] RE: 1600 absolute encoder questions



Thanks for the clarification George!

Gotta love encoders. Ran a pempro test on the 1600 last night and the PE was less than .4 (4 tenths) with the encoders on and less than 1.5 with the encoders off!

Dave Goodyear

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 16, 2013, at 6:50 AM, "George" george@...> wrote:

 Dave, The LED shows that the encoder is powered up and it reveals the signal strength. The APAE Utility is used to turn on the absolute encoders.  You only need to do this once and they will automatically become active whenever you power up the mount. You willonly need to run the utility again if you want to turn off the encoders.  Simply turn them on and forget about them.they will do their job.  G>  If you want to see if they are on, you will have to start the utility and check the status.just like opening therefrigerator door to see if the light is on!  Regards, George George WhitneyAstro-Physics, Inc.Phone:  815-282-1513Email:  george@...







----------------------------

#42105 Oct 16, 2013

You only need to connect the utility program when you are setting up your encoders. After that, you disconnect it and plug in your keypad. You do not need to have the utility connected forever. Rolando

-----Original Message-----

From: Dave Goodyear dave@...>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wed, Oct 16, 2013 4:31 pm

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RE: 1600 absolute encoder questions





How can you use the keypad when the pc connection uses the keypad port on the cp3 control box?  

Dave Goodyear



Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 16, 2013, at 2:28 PM, "chris1011@..." chris1011@...> wrote:





 

1) You don't determine the home position. It is determined for you. The instructions for using the encoders is in the zip file which you should have gotten along with your mount. Home will always be with the scope pointing toward the North Celestial Pole (or South in the southern hemisphere). It is the safest position to recover the scope to, with the least possibility of crashing the scope if it happens to be in an unsafe position when you have gotten it lost.

 2) Of course the keypad can always be used with the mount at any time. 3) You can connect the guider either way - relays or telescope, whichever suits you. Any specific questions can be answered by Howard. He is available to take your call or e-mail. The encoder function is real simple to set up. We have made it almost 100% automatic in the Encoder Utility. You just need to do a few simple things to determine your settings and limits to suit your preferences. The Utility will set up the logic in the AE micro for you to achieve your end goals. Rolando

-----Original Message-----From: Konstantin v. Poschinger k.poschinger@...>To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wed, Oct 16, 2013 3:52 pmSubject: Re: [ap-gto] RE: 1600 absolute encoder questions



Hi Roland,

I have some questions to the encoders:

1. How do I determine the home position?2. Can I use the mount with the Keypad, for example at daytime for observing the sun.3. When guiding with MaximDL, which way to connect the guider with the mount? Guider Relays or Telescope?

Konstantin



Konstantin v. Poschinger

Hammerichstr. 522605 Hamburg040/88057470171 1983476

Am 16.10.2013 um 21:48 schrieb chris1011@...:

 

Besides reducing the RA gear error down to below the seeing, the encoders have several functions that may not be apparent. 1) they are absolute encoders, so even if you get the mount lost by syncing on Altair when in fact the scope is pointing to Zubenelgenubi (I just love that name), you can instantly recover the exact gear angle by sending the mount to the reference home position. Absolute encoder means that the encoder ring has an embedded code written on every tick mark corresponding to the exact angle which is being pointed to on the gearwheel. 2) Being absolute encoders, the software can determine the gear angle at any time that the encoders are powered on. The mount does not even need to be powered or running, as long as the encoders are on, they can be queried as to position. 3) The encoders are accurate to sub-arc second level, so we use that to eliminate Dec reversal and backlash errors on both axes. In other words, we now close the loop on the axes so that every move command, no matter how small, will be acted upon and the axis will move to that position. Therefore, if your guide software determines that the Dec axis is off by 1 arc second and sends a corresponding 1 arc second move command, the encoder looop will make sure that the drive system actually moves by that exact amount, regardless of backlash, reversal delay, friction or whathaveyou. This all occurs in less than 100 milliseconds, and is very stable - no jitter or overshoot or hunting. This is just one more error that is eliminated to make guiding as accurate as possible. The color of the LED indicates whether or not the pickup is reading the encoder ring tick marks. A color of green or blue indicates proper operation. A yellow light indicates that the pickup is not at an optimal distance above the encoder ring and may not be reading the marks correctly. Rolando

-----Original Message-----From: Dave Goodyear dave@...>To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wed, Oct 16, 2013 1:32 pmSubject: Re: [ap-gto] RE: 1600 absolute encoder questions



Thanks for the clarification George!

Gotta love encoders. Ran a pempro test on the 1600 last night and the PE was less than .4 (4 tenths) with the encoders on and less than 1.5 with the encoders off!

Dave Goodyear

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 16, 2013, at 6:50 AM, "George" george@...> wrote:

 Dave, The LED shows that the encoder is powered up and it reveals the signal strength. The APAE Utility is used to turn on the absolute encoders.  You only need to do this once and they will automatically become active whenever you power up the mount. You willonly need to run the utility again if you want to turn off the encoders.  Simply turn them on and forget about them.they will do their job.  G>  If you want to see if they are on, you will have to start the utility and check the status.just like opening therefrigerator door to see if the light is on!  Regards, George George WhitneyAstro-Physics, Inc.Phone:  815-282-1513Email:  george@...



----------------------------

#42108 Oct 16, 2013

SHWEET!!!!







Dave Goodyear



KB2 Networks Inc.



214 Main St. #318



El Segundo, CA 90245



310-933-2436







cid:image001.png@01CB2D84.4D351AD0











From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Howard

Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 3:37 PM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [ap-gto] RE: 1600 absolute encoder questions











A bit of further clarification: Roland is correct. Once the Home and Limits have been set, and the Encoders turned on, there is no need to have the utility running. You will then simply connect the computer (ASCOM Driver) through the AE box using the same port that you used for the utility. The AE box will pass all CP3 communications on to the servo. This frees up the keypad port for its original use . the keypad!







Mag. 7 Skies!







Howard Hedlund



Astro-Physics, Inc.



Phone: 815-282-1513



www.astro-physics.com www.astro-physics.com/>



Please include this e-mail with your response.







P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.











From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chris1011@...

Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 7:31 PM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RE: 1600 absolute encoder questions











You only need to connect the utility program when you are setting up your encoders. After that, you disconnect it and plug in your keypad. You do not need to have the utility connected forever.







Rolando



-----Original Message-----

From: Dave Goodyear dave@...>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wed, Oct 16, 2013 4:31 pm

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RE: 1600 absolute encoder questions







How can you use the keypad when the pc connection uses the keypad port on the cp3 control box?



Dave Goodyear







Sent from my iPhone



On Oct 16, 2013, at 2:28 PM, "chris1011@..." chris1011@...> wrote:







1) You don't determine the home position. It is determined for you. The instructions for using the encoders is in the zip file which you should have gotten along with your mount. Home will always be with the scope pointing toward the North Celestial Pole (or South in the southern hemisphere). It is the safest position to recover the scope to, with the least possibility of crashing the scope if it happens to be in an unsafe position when you have gotten it lost.







2) Of course the keypad can always be used with the mount at any time.







3) You can connect the guider either way - relays or telescope, whichever suits you.







Any specific questions can be answered by Howard. He is available to take your call or e-mail. The encoder function is real simple to set up. We have made it almost 100% automatic in the Encoder Utility. You just need to do a few simple things to determine your settings and limits to suit your preferences. The Utility will set up the logic in the AE micro for you to achieve your end goals.







Rolando



-----Original Message-----

From: Konstantin v. Poschinger k.poschinger@...>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wed, Oct 16, 2013 3:52 pm

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RE: 1600 absolute encoder questions







Hi Roland,







I have some questions to the encoders:







1. How do I determine the home position?



2. Can I use the mount with the Keypad, for example at daytime for observing the sun.



3. When guiding with MaximDL, which way to connect the guider with the mount? Guider Relays or Telescope?







Konstantin







Konstantin v. Poschinger



Hammerichstr. 5

22605 Hamburg

040/8805747

0171 1983476







Am 16.10.2013 um 21:48 schrieb chris1011@...:





















Besides reducing the RA gear error down to below the seeing, the encoders have several functions that may not be apparent.







1) they are absolute encoders, so even if you get the mount lost by syncing on Altair when in fact the scope is pointing to Zubenelgenubi (I just love that name), you can instantly recover the exact gear angle by sending the mount to the reference home position. Absolute encoder means that the encoder ring has an embedded code written on every tick mark corresponding to the exact angle which is being pointed to on the gearwheel.







2) Being absolute encoders, the software can determine the gear angle at any time that the encoders are powered on. The mount does not even need to be powered or running, as long as the encoders are on, they can be queried as to position.







3) The encoders are accurate to sub-arc second level, so we use that to eliminate Dec reversal and backlash errors on both axes. In other words, we now close the loop on the axes so that every move command, no matter how small, will be acted upon and the axis will move to that position. Therefore, if your guide software determines that the Dec axis is off by 1 arc second and sends a corresponding 1 arc second move command, the encoder looop will make sure that the drive system actually moves by that exact amount, regardless of backlash, reversal delay, friction or whathaveyou. This all occurs in less than 100 milliseconds, and is very stable - no jitter or overshoot or hunting. This is just one more error that is eliminated to make guiding as accurate as possible.







The color of the LED indicates whether or not the pickup is reading the encoder ring tick marks. A color of green or blue indicates proper operation. A yellow light indicates that the pickup is not at an optimal distance above the encoder ring and may not be reading the marks correctly.







Rolando



-----Original Message-----

From: Dave Goodyear dave@...>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wed, Oct 16, 2013 1:32 pm

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RE: 1600 absolute encoder questions







Thanks for the clarification George!







Gotta love encoders. Ran a pempro test on the 1600 last night and the PE was less than .4 (4 tenths) with the encoders on and less than 1.5 with the encoders off!



Dave Goodyear







Sent from my iPhone





On Oct 16, 2013, at 6:50 AM, "George" george@...> wrote:







Dave,







The LED shows that the encoder is powered up and it reveals the signal strength.







The APAE Utility is used to turn on the absolute encoders. You only need to do this once and they will automatically become active whenever you power up the mount. You will only need to run the utility again if you want to turn off the encoders. Simply turn them on and forget about them.they will do their job. G> If you want to see if they are on, you will have to start the utility and check the status.just like opening the refrigerator door to see if the light is on!







Regards,







George







George Whitney



Astro-Physics, Inc.



Phone: 815-282-1513



Email: george@...







From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Goodyear

Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 11:51 PM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [ap-gto] 1600 absolute encoder questions











Couple questions about the absolute encoders.



What's the function of the LEDs? Do they have a purpose?



Are the encoders last state aware? If the encoders are on when I turn the mount off and then when I turn the mount on are the encoders on? And vise versa? Or do I always need to run the utility to turn the encoders on after a power cycle?



Is there a visual cue on the mount that tells me if the encoders are on or off?



Thanks.



Dave Goodyear



Sent from my iPhone

































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