Re: 1200GTO: East is West and West is East


Jun 1, 2009

 


----------------------------

#24910 Jun 1, 2009

...and never the twain...



Ooops! Wrong forum!



I'm near Annapolis, MD, vicinity 39 04 N, 76 39 W.



My 1200GTO CP3 thinks west is east and vice-versa. This is true

when the mount is computer-controlled and when it is controlled

from the keypad. Naturally, it won't do a goto; it gets it exactly

backward.



I have checked the N/S switch.

I have powered down for 18 hours.

I have reset the keypad.

I have confirmed repeatedly that the keypad has the correct time,

including -5 UTC offset and DST on. When the mount is connected

to the computer I have verified that the computer and mount

time and location settings match.



I'll bet the answer is a simple one, but I have not had this happen

before and the answer eludes me...



Thanks



----------------------------

#24911 Jun 1, 2009

Hi David,

Was the initial star initialisation done with the scope approaching the

vertical?



Perhaps the mount thinks the scope normally operates under the mount.



Try calibrating on a star towards the horizon perhaps.



Just a suggestion.



Brian Coote



bcoote-astro.com/default.htm



David Illig wrote: >

>

>

> ...and never the twain...

>

> Ooops! Wrong forum!

>

> I'm near Annapolis, MD, vicinity 39 04 N, 76 39 W.

>

> My 1200GTO CP3 thinks west is east and vice-versa. This is true

> when the mount is computer-controlled and when it is controlled

> from the keypad. Naturally, it won't do a goto; it gets it exactly

> backward.

>

> I have checked the N/S switch.

> I have powered down for 18 hours.

> I have reset the keypad.

> I have confirmed repeatedly that the keypad has the correct time,

> including -5 UTC offset and DST on. When the mount is connected

> to the computer I have verified that the computer and mount

> time and location settings match.

>

> I'll bet the answer is a simple one, but I have not had this happen

> before and the answer eludes me...

>

> Thanks

>

>



----------------------------

#24912 Jun 1, 2009

check the mount's lat/long and its time of day and time zone.....



----- Original Message -----

From: Brian Coote

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:13 PM

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1200GTO: East is West and West is East











Hi David,

Was the initial star initialisation done with the scope approaching the

vertical?



Perhaps the mount thinks the scope normally operates under the mount.



Try calibrating on a star towards the horizon perhaps.



Just a suggestion.



Brian Coote



bcoote-astro.com/default.htm



David Illig wrote:

>

>

>

> ...and never the twain...

>

> Ooops! Wrong forum!

>

> I'm near Annapolis, MD, vicinity 39 04 N, 76 39 W.

>

> My 1200GTO CP3 thinks west is east and vice-versa. This is true

> when the mount is computer-controlled and when it is controlled

> from the keypad. Naturally, it won't do a goto; it gets it exactly

> backward.

>

> I have checked the N/S switch.

> I have powered down for 18 hours.

> I have reset the keypad.

> I have confirmed repeatedly that the keypad has the correct time,

> including -5 UTC offset and DST on. When the mount is connected

> to the computer I have verified that the computer and mount

> time and location settings match.

>

> I'll bet the answer is a simple one, but I have not had this happen

> before and the answer eludes me...

>

> Thanks

>

>









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#24913 Jun 1, 2009

Thanks. No, I used a Kornephoros, which was about 37 deg

above the eastern horizon when I started the evening at abt

21:00 EDT on 31 May. That's the area where I always do the

initialization. Everything worked for several hours,

goto's dead on, then I tried to slew to a star just east of the

meridian. The mount wanted to do a meridian flip but I did

not want that, so I stopped it and manually slewed to the

star and synched on the star. After that it was haywire. No

amount of synching on known stars worked, park positions

isn't right, etc. It appears that the mount slews to

approximately the right declination, but on the wrong side

of the meridian.



David



Brian Coote kindly wrote: >

> Hi David,

> Was the initial star initialisation done with the scope approaching the

> vertical?

>

> Perhaps the mount thinks the scope normally operates under the mount.

>

> Try calibrating on a star towards the horizon perhaps.

>

> Just a suggestion.

>

> Brian Coote

>

> bcoote-astro.com/default.htm

>

> David Illig wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > ...and never the twain...

> >

> > Ooops! Wrong forum!

> >

> > I'm near Annapolis, MD, vicinity 39 04 N, 76 39 W.

> >

> > My 1200GTO CP3 thinks west is east and vice-versa. This is true

> > when the mount is computer-controlled and when it is controlled

> > from the keypad. Naturally, it won't do a goto; it gets it exactly

> > backward.

> >

> > I have checked the N/S switch.

> > I have powered down for 18 hours.

> > I have reset the keypad.

> > I have confirmed repeatedly that the keypad has the correct time,

> > including -5 UTC offset and DST on. When the mount is connected

> > to the computer I have verified that the computer and mount

> > time and location settings match.

> >

> > I'll bet the answer is a simple one, but I have not had this happen

> > before and the answer eludes me...

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> >

>







----------------------------

#24914 Jun 1, 2009

ok, now it is clear..... you should have let it do the meridian flip and then things would be ok



you can delay the flip too btw....



----- Original Message -----

From: David Illig

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:04 PM

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1200GTO: East is West and West is East











Thanks. No, I used a Kornephoros, which was about 37 deg

above the eastern horizon when I started the evening at abt

21:00 EDT on 31 May. That's the area where I always do the

initialization. Everything worked for several hours,

goto's dead on, then I tried to slew to a star just east of the

meridian. The mount wanted to do a meridian flip but I did

not want that, so I stopped it and manually slewed to the

star and synched on the star. After that it was haywire. No

amount of synching on known stars worked, park positions

isn't right, etc. It appears that the mount slews to

approximately the right declination, but on the wrong side

of the meridian.



David



Brian Coote kindly wrote:

>

> Hi David,

> Was the initial star initialisation done with the scope approaching the

> vertical?

>

> Perhaps the mount thinks the scope normally operates under the mount.

>

> Try calibrating on a star towards the horizon perhaps.

>

> Just a suggestion.

>

> Brian Coote

>

> bcoote-astro.com/default.htm

>

> David Illig wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > ...and never the twain...

> >

> > Ooops! Wrong forum!

> >

> > I'm near Annapolis, MD, vicinity 39 04 N, 76 39 W.

> >

> > My 1200GTO CP3 thinks west is east and vice-versa. This is true

> > when the mount is computer-controlled and when it is controlled

> > from the keypad. Naturally, it won't do a goto; it gets it exactly

> > backward.

> >

> > I have checked the N/S switch.

> > I have powered down for 18 hours.

> > I have reset the keypad.

> > I have confirmed repeatedly that the keypad has the correct time,

> > including -5 UTC offset and DST on. When the mount is connected

> > to the computer I have verified that the computer and mount

> > time and location settings match.

> >

> > I'll bet the answer is a simple one, but I have not had this happen

> > before and the answer eludes me...

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> >

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#24915 Jun 1, 2009

You probably "sync'd" the mount when it was on the wrong (west) side of the

meridian...you should have let it do the flip or have done an rcal on the

star, instead.



Try starting the mount again, and do the two star alignment, making sure

that the initial star which you do a sync on is on the east side of the

mount...then do an rcal on the west side star and you should be OK.



Hank

On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 8:04 PM, David Illig daffyddsant@...> wrote:



>

>

> Thanks. No, I used a Kornephoros, which was about 37 deg

> above the eastern horizon when I started the evening at abt

> 21:00 EDT on 31 May. That's the area where I always do the

> initialization. Everything worked for several hours,

> goto's dead on, then I tried to slew to a star just east of the

> meridian. The mount wanted to do a meridian flip but I did

> not want that, so I stopped it and manually slewed to the

> star and synched on the star. After that it was haywire. No

> amount of synching on known stars worked, park positions

> isn't right, etc. It appears that the mount slews to

> approximately the right declination, but on the wrong side

> of the meridian.

>

> David

>

>

> Brian Coote kindly wrote:

> >

> > Hi David,

> > Was the initial star initialisation done with the scope approaching the

> > vertical?

> >

> > Perhaps the mount thinks the scope normally operates under the mount.

> >

> > Try calibrating on a star towards the horizon perhaps.

> >

> > Just a suggestion.

> >

> > Brian Coote

> >

> > bcoote-astro.com/default.htm

> >

> > David Illig wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ...and never the twain...

> > >

> > > Ooops! Wrong forum!

> > >

> > > I'm near Annapolis, MD, vicinity 39 04 N, 76 39 W.

> > >

> > > My 1200GTO CP3 thinks west is east and vice-versa. This is true

> > > when the mount is computer-controlled and when it is controlled

> > > from the keypad. Naturally, it won't do a goto; it gets it exactly

> > > backward.

> > >

> > > I have checked the N/S switch.

> > > I have powered down for 18 hours.

> > > I have reset the keypad.

> > > I have confirmed repeatedly that the keypad has the correct time,

> > > including -5 UTC offset and DST on. When the mount is connected

> > > to the computer I have verified that the computer and mount

> > > time and location settings match.

> > >

> > > I'll bet the answer is a simple one, but I have not had this happen

> > > before and the answer eludes me...

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#24916 Jun 1, 2009

Thank you. As I said, I *repeatedly* checked the mount's

location and time settings. Since it is possible to make the

same mistake repeatedly, I went away and had my wife check

and write down the values. She knows nothing about the mount,

and was not prejudiced by knowing what the values she was

recording should be. They were and are what they ought

to be.



Suppose, however, that the time was off by one hour--

wrong UTC offset or DST not set, e.g. Wouldn't that simply

put the mount off the target by about one hour in R.A.?

Would it cause the mount to slew to the west instead of

the east with every attempt to slew to a star in the east,

regardless of R.A./elevation--and vice-versa?



David



Richard Crisp: >

> check the mount's lat/long and its time of day and time zone.....

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Brian Coote

> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:13 PM

> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1200GTO: East is West and West is East

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi David,

> Was the initial star initialisation done with the scope approaching the

> vertical?

>

> Perhaps the mount thinks the scope normally operates under the mount.

>

> Try calibrating on a star towards the horizon perhaps.

>

> Just a suggestion.

>

> Brian Coote

>

> bcoote-astro.com/default.htm

>

> David Illig wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > ...and never the twain...

> >

> > Ooops! Wrong forum!

> >

> > I'm near Annapolis, MD, vicinity 39 04 N, 76 39 W.

> >

> > My 1200GTO CP3 thinks west is east and vice-versa. This is true

> > when the mount is computer-controlled and when it is controlled

> > from the keypad. Naturally, it won't do a goto; it gets it exactly

> > backward.

> >

> > I have checked the N/S switch.

> > I have powered down for 18 hours.

> > I have reset the keypad.

> > I have confirmed repeatedly that the keypad has the correct time,

> > including -5 UTC offset and DST on. When the mount is connected

> > to the computer I have verified that the computer and mount

> > time and location settings match.

> >

> > I'll bet the answer is a simple one, but I have not had this happen

> > before and the answer eludes me...

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



----------------------------

#24917 Jun 1, 2009

Thanks, but I didn't let it do the flip, and I can't go back

and redo that. Do I take it that the mount is ruined and

can't be fixed?



Sorry, that's my facetious way of saying "So what's the

solution, given the lack of a rewind button?"



Thanks again,



David



Richard Crisp wrote: >

> ok, now it is clear..... you should have let it do the meridian flip and then things would be ok

>

> you can delay the flip too btw....

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: David Illig

> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:04 PM

> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1200GTO: East is West and West is East

>

>

>

>

>

> Thanks. No, I used a Kornephoros, which was about 37 deg

> above the eastern horizon when I started the evening at abt

> 21:00 EDT on 31 May. That's the area where I always do the

> initialization. Everything worked for several hours,

> goto's dead on, then I tried to slew to a star just east of the

> meridian. The mount wanted to do a meridian flip but I did

> not want that, so I stopped it and manually slewed to the

> star and synched on the star. After that it was haywire. No

> amount of synching on known stars worked, park positions

> isn't right, etc. It appears that the mount slews to

> approximately the right declination, but on the wrong side

> of the meridian.

>

> David

>

> Brian Coote kindly wrote:

> >

> > Hi David,

> > Was the initial star initialisation done with the scope approaching the

> > vertical?

> >

> > Perhaps the mount thinks the scope normally operates under the mount.

> >

> > Try calibrating on a star towards the horizon perhaps.

> >

> > Just a suggestion.

> >

> > Brian Coote

> >

> > bcoote-astro.com/default.htm

> >

> > David Illig wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ...and never the twain...

> > >

> > > Ooops! Wrong forum!

> > >

> > > I'm near Annapolis, MD, vicinity 39 04 N, 76 39 W.

> > >

> > > My 1200GTO CP3 thinks west is east and vice-versa. This is true

> > > when the mount is computer-controlled and when it is controlled

> > > from the keypad. Naturally, it won't do a goto; it gets it exactly

> > > backward.

> > >

> > > I have checked the N/S switch.

> > > I have powered down for 18 hours.

> > > I have reset the keypad.

> > > I have confirmed repeatedly that the keypad has the correct time,

> > > including -5 UTC offset and DST on. When the mount is connected

> > > to the computer I have verified that the computer and mount

> > > time and location settings match.

> > >

> > > I'll bet the answer is a simple one, but I have not had this happen

> > > before and the answer eludes me...

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>







----------------------------

#24918 Jun 1, 2009

right your problem is that you should have let it do the meridian flip ....



either that or defer the flip....



once you manually slewed to the other side and synched it got confused. it has no way to know which way is up....







----- Original Message -----

From: David Illig

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:18 PM

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1200GTO: East is West and West is East











Thank you. As I said, I *repeatedly* checked the mount's

location and time settings. Since it is possible to make the

same mistake repeatedly, I went away and had my wife check

and write down the values. She knows nothing about the mount,

and was not prejudiced by knowing what the values she was

recording should be. They were and are what they ought

to be.



Suppose, however, that the time was off by one hour--

wrong UTC offset or DST not set, e.g. Wouldn't that simply

put the mount off the target by about one hour in R.A.?

Would it cause the mount to slew to the west instead of

the east with every attempt to slew to a star in the east,

regardless of R.A./elevation--and vice-versa?



David



Richard Crisp:

>

> check the mount's lat/long and its time of day and time zone.....

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Brian Coote

> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:13 PM

> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1200GTO: East is West and West is East

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi David,

> Was the initial star initialisation done with the scope approaching the

> vertical?

>

> Perhaps the mount thinks the scope normally operates under the mount.

>

> Try calibrating on a star towards the horizon perhaps.

>

> Just a suggestion.

>

> Brian Coote

>

> bcoote-astro.com/default.htm

>

> David Illig wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > ...and never the twain...

> >

> > Ooops! Wrong forum!

> >

> > I'm near Annapolis, MD, vicinity 39 04 N, 76 39 W.

> >

> > My 1200GTO CP3 thinks west is east and vice-versa. This is true

> > when the mount is computer-controlled and when it is controlled

> > from the keypad. Naturally, it won't do a goto; it gets it exactly

> > backward.

> >

> > I have checked the N/S switch.

> > I have powered down for 18 hours.

> > I have reset the keypad.

> > I have confirmed repeatedly that the keypad has the correct time,

> > including -5 UTC offset and DST on. When the mount is connected

> > to the computer I have verified that the computer and mount

> > time and location settings match.

> >

> > I'll bet the answer is a simple one, but I have not had this happen

> > before and the answer eludes me...

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#24919 Jun 1, 2009

If you sync on the star when it is past the meridain it will think the sky

is down, and the earth is up. If the DST times is messed up maybe it could

think a star was not past the meridan yet and it really was?



Dean



----- Original Message -----

From: "David Illig" daffyddsant@...>

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 11:18 PM

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1200GTO: East is West and West is East





> Thank you. As I said, I *repeatedly* checked the mount's

> location and time settings. Since it is possible to make the

> same mistake repeatedly, I went away and had my wife check

> and write down the values. She knows nothing about the mount,

> and was not prejudiced by knowing what the values she was

> recording should be. They were and are what they ought

> to be.

>

> Suppose, however, that the time was off by one hour--

> wrong UTC offset or DST not set, e.g. Wouldn't that simply

> put the mount off the target by about one hour in R.A.?

> Would it cause the mount to slew to the west instead of

> the east with every attempt to slew to a star in the east,

> regardless of R.A./elevation--and vice-versa?

>

> David

>

> Richard Crisp:

>>

>> check the mount's lat/long and its time of day and time zone.....

>>

>>

>> ----- Original Message -----

>> From: Brian Coote

>> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:13 PM

>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1200GTO: East is West and West is East

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> Hi David,

>> Was the initial star initialisation done with the scope approaching the

>> vertical?

>>

>> Perhaps the mount thinks the scope normally operates under the mount.

>>

>> Try calibrating on a star towards the horizon perhaps.

>>

>> Just a suggestion.

>>

>> Brian Coote

>>

>> bcoote-astro.com/default.htm

>>

>> David Illig wrote:

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > ...and never the twain...

>> >

>> > Ooops! Wrong forum!

>> >

>> > I'm near Annapolis, MD, vicinity 39 04 N, 76 39 W.

>> >

>> > My 1200GTO CP3 thinks west is east and vice-versa. This is true

>> > when the mount is computer-controlled and when it is controlled

>> > from the keypad. Naturally, it won't do a goto; it gets it exactly

>> > backward.

>> >

>> > I have checked the N/S switch.

>> > I have powered down for 18 hours.

>> > I have reset the keypad.

>> > I have confirmed repeatedly that the keypad has the correct time,

>> > including -5 UTC offset and DST on. When the mount is connected

>> > to the computer I have verified that the computer and mount

>> > time and location settings match.

>> >

>> > I'll bet the answer is a simple one, but I have not had this happen

>> > before and the answer eludes me...

>> >

>> > Thanks

>> >

>> >

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>

>

>

>

---------------

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>





---------------







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17:55:00







----------------------------

#24920 Jun 1, 2009

just fire it up, point it a star on the correct side of the meridian, synch it and you should be good to go...





----- Original Message -----

From: David Illig

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:22 PM

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1200GTO: East is West and West is East











Thanks, but I didn't let it do the flip, and I can't go back

and redo that. Do I take it that the mount is ruined and

can't be fixed?



Sorry, that's my facetious way of saying "So what's the

solution, given the lack of a rewind button?"



Thanks again,



David



Richard Crisp wrote:

>

> ok, now it is clear..... you should have let it do the meridian flip and then things would be ok

>

> you can delay the flip too btw....

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: David Illig

> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:04 PM

> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1200GTO: East is West and West is East

>

>

>

>

>

> Thanks. No, I used a Kornephoros, which was about 37 deg

> above the eastern horizon when I started the evening at abt

> 21:00 EDT on 31 May. That's the area where I always do the

> initialization. Everything worked for several hours,

> goto's dead on, then I tried to slew to a star just east of the

> meridian. The mount wanted to do a meridian flip but I did

> not want that, so I stopped it and manually slewed to the

> star and synched on the star. After that it was haywire. No

> amount of synching on known stars worked, park positions

> isn't right, etc. It appears that the mount slews to

> approximately the right declination, but on the wrong side

> of the meridian.

>

> David

>

> Brian Coote kindly wrote:

> >

> > Hi David,

> > Was the initial star initialisation done with the scope approaching the

> > vertical?

> >

> > Perhaps the mount thinks the scope normally operates under the mount.

> >

> > Try calibrating on a star towards the horizon perhaps.

> >

> > Just a suggestion.

> >

> > Brian Coote

> >

> > bcoote-astro.com/default.htm

> >

> > David Illig wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ...and never the twain...

> > >

> > > Ooops! Wrong forum!

> > >

> > > I'm near Annapolis, MD, vicinity 39 04 N, 76 39 W.

> > >

> > > My 1200GTO CP3 thinks west is east and vice-versa. This is true

> > > when the mount is computer-controlled and when it is controlled

> > > from the keypad. Naturally, it won't do a goto; it gets it exactly

> > > backward.

> > >

> > > I have checked the N/S switch.

> > > I have powered down for 18 hours.

> > > I have reset the keypad.

> > > I have confirmed repeatedly that the keypad has the correct time,

> > > including -5 UTC offset and DST on. When the mount is connected

> > > to the computer I have verified that the computer and mount

> > > time and location settings match.

> > >

> > > I'll bet the answer is a simple one, but I have not had this happen

> > > before and the answer eludes me...

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#24921 Jun 1, 2009

It is broke so send it to me:)





Just turn it off, start all over from park position 1 and your back in

business.



----- Original Message -----

From: "David Illig" daffyddsant@...>

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 11:22 PM

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1200GTO: East is West and West is East





> Thanks, but I didn't let it do the flip, and I can't go back

> and redo that. Do I take it that the mount is ruined and

> can't be fixed?

>

> Sorry, that's my facetious way of saying "So what's the

> solution, given the lack of a rewind button?"

>

> Thanks again,

>

> David

>

> Richard Crisp wrote:

>>

>> ok, now it is clear..... you should have let it do the meridian flip and

>> then things would be ok

>>

>> you can delay the flip too btw....

>>

>>

>> ----- Original Message -----

>> From: David Illig

>> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:04 PM

>> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1200GTO: East is West and West is East

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> Thanks. No, I used a Kornephoros, which was about 37 deg

>> above the eastern horizon when I started the evening at abt

>> 21:00 EDT on 31 May. That's the area where I always do the

>> initialization. Everything worked for several hours,

>> goto's dead on, then I tried to slew to a star just east of the

>> meridian. The mount wanted to do a meridian flip but I did

>> not want that, so I stopped it and manually slewed to the

>> star and synched on the star. After that it was haywire. No

>> amount of synching on known stars worked, park positions

>> isn't right, etc. It appears that the mount slews to

>> approximately the right declination, but on the wrong side

>> of the meridian.

>>

>> David

>>

>> Brian Coote kindly wrote:

>> >

>> > Hi David,

>> > Was the initial star initialisation done with the scope approaching

>> the

>> > vertical?

>> >

>> > Perhaps the mount thinks the scope normally operates under the mount.

>> >

>> > Try calibrating on a star towards the horizon perhaps.

>> >

>> > Just a suggestion.

>> >

>> > Brian Coote

>> >

>> > bcoote-astro.com/default.htm

>> >

>> > David Illig wrote:

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > > ...and never the twain...

>> > >

>> > > Ooops! Wrong forum!

>> > >

>> > > I'm near Annapolis, MD, vicinity 39 04 N, 76 39 W.

>> > >

>> > > My 1200GTO CP3 thinks west is east and vice-versa. This is true

>> > > when the mount is computer-controlled and when it is controlled

>> > > from the keypad. Naturally, it won't do a goto; it gets it exactly

>> > > backward.

>> > >

>> > > I have checked the N/S switch.

>> > > I have powered down for 18 hours.

>> > > I have reset the keypad.

>> > > I have confirmed repeatedly that the keypad has the correct time,

>> > > including -5 UTC offset and DST on. When the mount is connected

>> > > to the computer I have verified that the computer and mount

>> > > time and location settings match.

>> > >

>> > > I'll bet the answer is a simple one, but I have not had this happen

>> > > before and the answer eludes me...

>> > >

>> > > Thanks

>> > >

>> > >

>> >

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>

>

>

>

>

---------------

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>





---------------







No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.49/2149 - Release Date: 06/01/09

17:55:00







----------------------------

#24922 Jun 1, 2009

Thank you very much! I did not sync the mount when it was on

the west side of the meridian; nonetheless, I'll try that solution

the next clear night. Extrapolating from detailed weather

records I have kept for the past three years, that should be be

one or two months from now. No joke.



Davoud



Hank Sielski wrote: >

> You probably "sync'd" the mount when it was on the wrong (west) side of the

> meridian...you should have let it do the flip or have done an rcal on the

> star, instead.

>

> Try starting the mount again, and do the two star alignment, making sure

> that the initial star which you do a sync on is on the east side of the

> mount...then do an rcal on the west side star and you should be OK.

>

> Hank

>

> On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 8:04 PM, David Illig daffyddsant@...> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Thanks. No, I used a Kornephoros, which was about 37 deg

> > above the eastern horizon when I started the evening at abt

> > 21:00 EDT on 31 May. That's the area where I always do the

> > initialization. Everything worked for several hours,

> > goto's dead on, then I tried to slew to a star just east of the

> > meridian. The mount wanted to do a meridian flip but I did

> > not want that, so I stopped it and manually slewed to the

> > star and synched on the star. After that it was haywire. No

> > amount of synching on known stars worked, park positions

> > isn't right, etc. It appears that the mount slews to

> > approximately the right declination, but on the wrong side

> > of the meridian.

> >

> > David

> >

> >

> > Brian Coote kindly wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi David,

> > > Was the initial star initialisation done with the scope approaching the

> > > vertical?

> > >

> > > Perhaps the mount thinks the scope normally operates under the mount.

> > >

> > > Try calibrating on a star towards the horizon perhaps.

> > >

> > > Just a suggestion.

> > >

> > > Brian Coote

> > >

> > > bcoote-astro.com/default.htm

> > >

> > > David Illig wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ...and never the twain...

> > > >

> > > > Ooops! Wrong forum!

> > > >

> > > > I'm near Annapolis, MD, vicinity 39 04 N, 76 39 W.

> > > >

> > > > My 1200GTO CP3 thinks west is east and vice-versa. This is true

> > > > when the mount is computer-controlled and when it is controlled

> > > > from the keypad. Naturally, it won't do a goto; it gets it exactly

> > > > backward.

> > > >

> > > > I have checked the N/S switch.

> > > > I have powered down for 18 hours.

> > > > I have reset the keypad.

> > > > I have confirmed repeatedly that the keypad has the correct time,

> > > > including -5 UTC offset and DST on. When the mount is connected

> > > > to the computer I have verified that the computer and mount

> > > > time and location settings match.

> > > >

> > > > I'll bet the answer is a simple one, but I have not had this happen

> > > > before and the answer eludes me...

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



----------------------------

#24923 Jun 1, 2009

That was the very first (and second, and third, and fourth...) thing

I tried :-( Didn't work. But I'[m taking these suggestions seriously.



There have been a couple of fleeting sucker holes this evening,

but none persistent enough to let me try anything. I'm in the

zerbat'ry with the 'scope in the right general direction and will

wait for a suitable sucker hole.



David



Richard Crisp: >

> just fire it up, point it a star on the correct side of the meridian, synch it and you should be good to go...

>

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: David Illig

> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:22 PM

> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1200GTO: East is West and West is East

>

>

>

>

>

> Thanks, but I didn't let it do the flip, and I can't go back

> and redo that. Do I take it that the mount is ruined and

> can't be fixed?

>

> Sorry, that's my facetious way of saying "So what's the

> solution, given the lack of a rewind button?"

>

> Thanks again,

>

> David

>

> Richard Crisp wrote:

> >

> > ok, now it is clear..... you should have let it do the meridian flip and then things would be ok

> >

> > you can delay the flip too btw....

> >

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: David Illig

> > To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:04 PM

> > Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1200GTO: East is West and West is East

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Thanks. No, I used a Kornephoros, which was about 37 deg

> > above the eastern horizon when I started the evening at abt

> > 21:00 EDT on 31 May. That's the area where I always do the

> > initialization. Everything worked for several hours,

> > goto's dead on, then I tried to slew to a star just east of the

> > meridian. The mount wanted to do a meridian flip but I did

> > not want that, so I stopped it and manually slewed to the

> > star and synched on the star. After that it was haywire. No

> > amount of synching on known stars worked, park positions

> > isn't right, etc. It appears that the mount slews to

> > approximately the right declination, but on the wrong side

> > of the meridian.

> >

> > David

> >

> > Brian Coote kindly wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi David,

> > > Was the initial star initialisation done with the scope approaching the

> > > vertical?

> > >

> > > Perhaps the mount thinks the scope normally operates under the mount.

> > >

> > > Try calibrating on a star towards the horizon perhaps.

> > >

> > > Just a suggestion.

> > >

> > > Brian Coote

> > >

> > > bcoote-astro.com/default.htm

> > >

> > > David Illig wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ...and never the twain...

> > > >

> > > > Ooops! Wrong forum!

> > > >

> > > > I'm near Annapolis, MD, vicinity 39 04 N, 76 39 W.

> > > >

> > > > My 1200GTO CP3 thinks west is east and vice-versa. This is true

> > > > when the mount is computer-controlled and when it is controlled

> > > > from the keypad. Naturally, it won't do a goto; it gets it exactly

> > > > backward.

> > > >

> > > > I have checked the N/S switch.

> > > > I have powered down for 18 hours.

> > > > I have reset the keypad.

> > > > I have confirmed repeatedly that the keypad has the correct time,

> > > > including -5 UTC offset and DST on. When the mount is connected

> > > > to the computer I have verified that the computer and mount

> > > > time and location settings match.

> > > >

> > > > I'll bet the answer is a simple one, but I have not had this happen

> > > > before and the answer eludes me...

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>







----------------------------

#24925 Jun 2, 2009

Don't use the sync function. Use recal. Do a goto to a star in the east. Keep the clutches off so the actual OTA doesn't move. (you may want to hold it so it doesn't crash) When the slew stops, manually point the OTA at the star making sure the ota is on the west side of the mount. Then recalibrate the mount.

Of course the best way to find a solution is to call Howard at AP. It wouold save a lot of time and aggravation.

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "David Illig" daffyddsant@...> wrote:

>

> I thought I had made it clear that I tried that and it did

> not put me back in business.

>

> Sorry about sending it to you; I think that with the

> various suggestions I am getting here (even though I

> have already tried every one of them!) I'll get it working

> right again.

>

> David



----------------------------

#24926 Jun 2, 2009

Loosen the clutches on both axis so that they will slip but won't allow the scope to move on its own. Via the keypad, tell the mount to either go into one of the three park positions, hold on to the scope and let the mount slew into position. Turn off the power to the mount. Then PHYSICALLY move the telescope into that park position and do up the clutches. Now you will be back within striking distance of having it point to the proper spot on the sky. Power up, make sure your location and time are correct and resume from park. Do NOT use the "Get time and location from mount"!



To fine tune the pointing, slew to a known star in the southeast. Make sure the scope is on the _west_ side of the mount. Use the finder and then the scope with moderate magnification to center the selected star. You can move the scope on to the star via the keypad buttons or by loosening the clutches and physically moving the scope. If you do this, tighten up the clutches once on the star. Do a SYNC. A RE_CAL would probably work as well, but just to be sure, use the SYNC function. From this point on, unless the telescope mount is physically picked up and moved to some other place on the planet, or it is completely disassembled and reassembled between sessions, you should never have to do a SYNC again. Any time there is a correction to be made, use the RE-CAL. Use of the SYNC on these mounts should be associated with a 25 digit password that has to be entered correctly within 10 seconds to proceed or it becomes a RE-CAL by default.



Rick.



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "David Illig" daffyddsant@...> wrote:

>

> I thought I had made it clear that I tried that and it did

> not put me back in business.

>

> Sorry about sending it to you; I think that with the

> various suggestions I am getting here (even though I

> have already tried every one of them!) I'll get it working

> right again.

>

> David

>

> Dean S" dean@> wrote:

> >

> > It is broke so send it to me:)

> >

> >

> > Just turn it off, start all over from park position 1 and your back in

> > business.

> >

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: "David Illig" daffyddsant@>

> > To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

> > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 11:22 PM

> > Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1200GTO: East is West and West is East

> >

> >

> > > Thanks, but I didn't let it do the flip, and I can't go back

> > > and redo that. Do I take it that the mount is ruined and

> > > can't be fixed?

> > >

> > > Sorry, that's my facetious way of saying "So what's the

> > > solution, given the lack of a rewind button?"

> > >

> > > Thanks again,

> > >

> > > David

> > >

> > > Richard Crisp wrote:

> > >>

> > >> ok, now it is clear..... you should have let it do the meridian flip and

> > >> then things would be ok

> > >>

> > >> you can delay the flip too btw....

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> ----- Original Message -----

> > >> From: David Illig

> > >> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> > >> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:04 PM

> > >> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1200GTO: East is West and West is East

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> Thanks. No, I used a Kornephoros, which was about 37 deg

> > >> above the eastern horizon when I started the evening at abt

> > >> 21:00 EDT on 31 May. That's the area where I always do the

> > >> initialization. Everything worked for several hours,

> > >> goto's dead on, then I tried to slew to a star just east of the

> > >> meridian. The mount wanted to do a meridian flip but I did

> > >> not want that, so I stopped it and manually slewed to the

> > >> star and synched on the star. After that it was haywire. No

> > >> amount of synching on known stars worked, park positions

> > >> isn't right, etc. It appears that the mount slews to

> > >> approximately the right declination, but on the wrong side

> > >> of the meridian.

> > >>

> > >> David

> > >>

> > >> Brian Coote kindly wrote:

> > >> >

> > >> > Hi David,

> > >> > Was the initial star initialisation done with the scope approaching

> > >> the

> > >> > vertical?

> > >> >

> > >> > Perhaps the mount thinks the scope normally operates under the mount.

> > >> >

> > >> > Try calibrating on a star towards the horizon perhaps.

> > >> >

> > >> > Just a suggestion.

> > >> >

> > >> > Brian Coote

> > >> >

> > >> > bcoote-astro.com/default.htm

> > >> >

> > >> > David Illig wrote:

> > >> > >

> > >> > >

> > >> > >

> > >> > > ...and never the twain...

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Ooops! Wrong forum!

> > >> > >

> > >> > > I'm near Annapolis, MD, vicinity 39 04 N, 76 39 W.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > My 1200GTO CP3 thinks west is east and vice-versa. This is true

> > >> > > when the mount is computer-controlled and when it is controlled

> > >> > > from the keypad. Naturally, it won't do a goto; it gets it exactly

> > >> > > backward.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > I have checked the N/S switch.

> > >> > > I have powered down for 18 hours.

> > >> > > I have reset the keypad.

> > >> > > I have confirmed repeatedly that the keypad has the correct time,

> > >> > > including -5 UTC offset and DST on. When the mount is connected

> > >> > > to the computer I have verified that the computer and mount

> > >> > > time and location settings match.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > I'll bet the answer is a simple one, but I have not had this happen

> > >> > > before and the answer eludes me...

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Thanks

> > >> > >

> > >> > >

> > >> >

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

---------------

> > >

> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> > > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

---------------

> >

> >

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.49/2149 - Release Date: 06/01/09

> > 17:55:00

> >

>







----------------------------

#24928 Jun 2, 2009

In a message dated 6/1/2009 10:45:29 PM Central Daylight Time,

daffyddsant@... writes:



> I thought I had made it clear that I tried that and it did

> not put me back in business.

>



It is not that difficult a thing to recover from. No need to ever turn the

mount off. Just simply manually slew to any star away from the meridian with

the scope on the proper side of the mount. Once you have the star centered,

do a "sync" on the star. You are then done.



Now, you apparently do not understand about how the meridian works.

Basically all German equatorials need to flip sides once the scope reaches the

meridian. How does the mount know where the meridian is? It looks at your local

time, local daylight savings, your time zone, and the date and computes the

meridian RA position. If you make a mistake in the local time or the

daylight savings, for each hour of your mistake, the meridian is calculated off by

15 degrees. Normally it would be straight up, but in your case it was off,

probably by 15 degrees, and I am guessing because you set the local time

forward by one hour this spring but forgot to change the daylight savings

setting by 1 hour. This is the #1 most common error that occurs to users. The

other possibility is that your date is off by 1 month.



Now, what is the easiest way to know that the mount is set up correctly?

very simple. There are 2 ways. First, you can let the mount slew to the

meridian by entering the meridian RA calculation as shown in the Time/LST window

(button #4 in the Main Menu). The number shown under the heading "LST" is the

RA number of the meridian at any given time. Take that number and enter it

into the manual RA/DEC entry (button #7 in the Objects menu) and press GoTo.

The mount will now slew to where it has calculated the meridian. You should

know that LST = Local Sidereal Time = Meridian.



Second way is to start with a proper sync on a known star on the proper

side of the meridian, then go into the setup menu and press Park1. The scope

will now slew to the meridian line on the northern horizon. If the scope and

counterweight shaft are not parallel to the earth, then you know that your

time or dat entry is wrong by some amount. For every hour, you will be off 15

degrees. For every month, you will be off 15 degrees.



Finally, DO NOT USE SYNC willy nilly. Yes, I know that if you come from

another system such as the Meade autostar, you are used to the term sync. Well,

it matters not in a fork mount which way you sync because forks don't have

a proper side of the meridian. however in a GEM it is vitally important that

you understand what "SYNC" does. It defines the relationship of the scope

to the mount. If you sync on the wrong side, your scope becomes the

counterweight. The mount IS NOT lost. It still points correctly and knows exactly

where it is, but it points with the counterweights on top and the scope under

the mount - not a good situation. This is why we recommend to use sync only

once, when you first set up the mount, and never again after that. If you

want to center a star and define that position, use Rcal, NOT sync. READ YOUR

MANUAL!



Rolando





**************

We found the real .Hotel California. and the .Seinfeld

. diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com.

(www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?nc

id=emlcntnew00000007)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#24929 Jun 2, 2009

In a message dated 6/2/2009 9:42:33 AM Central Daylight Time,

JunkMailGoesHere@... writes:



> Use of the SYNC on these mounts should be associated with a 25 digit

> password that has to be entered correctly within 10 seconds to proceed or it

> becomes a RE-CAL by default.

>



Maybe we should disable the sync function after the first correct slew and

turn every sync request into a Rcal. But then it would limit people who

really know how GEMs work. So maybe we need to have a sobriety test before being

allowed to use sync?



Rolando





**************

We found the real .Hotel California. and the .Seinfeld

. diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com.

(www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?nc

id=emlcntnew00000007)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#24931 Jun 2, 2009

In a message dated 6/2/2009 12:15:00 PM Central Daylight Time,

behenry10@... writes:



> Perhaps you could rename the Sync button to something else. The word Sync

> intuitively (to me, anyway) seems more like what the Rcal button does.



Here is how sync and Rcal differ:



Sync: you can sync on any object in the database by bringing that object

up, pointing your scope to that object in any manner you choose (manually

psuhing the axes, or via the keypad buttons, or via an external computer control

program - whatever your little heart desires), and then pressing "sync".

You can even fool the mount by pointing it at Polaris, bring up Vega and

pressing "sync' Presto, you have renamed Polaris and re-ordered the entire

universe.



Rcal: You cannot Rcal on just any object in the data library by bringing it

up and pressing Rcal. recalibration is ALWAYS done on the LAST OBJECT that

you slewed to. So, if you slewed to Vega, the mount will go there, now you

can center it and press Rcal. You have now redefined the new position as the

one belonging to Vega. If you bring up Polaris from the stars menu, and then

go to the Rcal menu and press Rcal, you are still recalibrating on the LAST

OBJECT thta you slewed to, which of course is Vega. Not until you actually

slew to Paolaris will you then be able to recalibrate the position of

Polaris by pressing Rcal.



Knowing the actual function of these two methods allows you all kinds of

possibilities. Rcal defines the new position of an object which you have

slewed to. It will work even on objects that are being acquired when they are

past the meridian. It will not redefine the scope/mount orientation.

Sync defines the scope/mount orientation with respect to the sky, and is

used only once at the beginning to place the scope on the proper side so that

all subsequent slews will position the scope on top and counterweights under

the mount (if you do it properly). If you use sync after the first setup,

then you must be aware of where the LST (local sidereal time or meridian) is.

If you have no clue where the meridian is, then DO NOT use sync.



Rolando









**************

We found the real .Hotel California. and the .Seinfeld.

diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com.

(www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?ncid=eml

cntnew00000007)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#24932 Jun 2, 2009

Thanks for the great explanation of Sync and Rcal. The ability to re-order the universe is awesome for those who need that power. My point was that folks who are not overly familiar with the mount may use Sync instead of Rcal with mixed results just because of the terminology. The manuals are well written so this may not be a common problem. From personal experience several years ago my only confusion with the AP900 was that when I pressed Rcal nothing appeared to happen. Reading this group and eventually writing my own software made the explanation quite clear.



Bryan

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

>

> Here is how sync and Rcal differ:

>

> Sync: you can sync on any object in the database by bringing that object

> up, pointing your scope to that object in any manner you choose (manually

> psuhing the axes, or via the keypad buttons, or via an external computer control

> program - whatever your little heart desires), and then pressing "sync".

> You can even fool the mount by pointing it at Polaris, bring up Vega and

> pressing "sync' Presto, you have renamed Polaris and re-ordered the entire

> universe.

>

> Rcal: You cannot Rcal on just any object in the data library by bringing it

> up and pressing Rcal. recalibration is ALWAYS done on the LAST OBJECT that

> you slewed to. So, if you slewed to Vega, the mount will go there, now you

> can center it and press Rcal. You have now redefined the new position as the

> one belonging to Vega. If you bring up Polaris from the stars menu, and then

> go to the Rcal menu and press Rcal, you are still recalibrating on the LAST

> OBJECT thta you slewed to, which of course is Vega. Not until you actually

> slew to Paolaris will you then be able to recalibrate the position of

> Polaris by pressing Rcal.

>

> Knowing the actual function of these two methods allows you all kinds of

> possibilities. Rcal defines the new position of an object which you have

> slewed to. It will work even on objects that are being acquired when they are

> past the meridian. It will not redefine the scope/mount orientation.

> Sync defines the scope/mount orientation with respect to the sky, and is

> used only once at the beginning to place the scope on the proper side so that

> all subsequent slews will position the scope on top and counterweights under

> the mount (if you do it properly). If you use sync after the first setup,

> then you must be aware of where the LST (local sidereal time or meridian) is.

> If you have no clue where the meridian is, then DO NOT use sync.

>

> Rolando

>

>

>

>

> **************

> We found the real ...Hotel California... and the ...Seinfeld...

> diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com.

> (www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?ncid=eml

> cntnew00000007)

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



----------------------------

#24933 Jun 2, 2009

Thanks for taking time to reply. Problem fixed. My responses

are interspersed with your message.



chris1011 wrote:

> It is not that difficult a thing to recover from. No need to ever turn the

> mount off. Just simply manually slew to any star away from the meridian with

> the scope on the proper side of the mount. Once you have the star centered,

> do a "sync" on the star. You are then done.

>

> Now, you apparently do not understand about how the meridian works.

> Basically all German equatorials need to flip sides once the scope reaches the

> meridian. How does the mount know where the meridian is? It looks at your local

> time, local daylight savings, your time zone, and the date and computes the

> meridian RA position. If you make a mistake in the local time or the

> daylight savings, for each hour of your mistake, the meridian is calculated off by

> 15 degrees. Normally it would be straight up, but in your case it was off,

> probably by 15 degrees, and I am guessing because you set the local time

> forward by one hour this spring but forgot to change the daylight savings

> setting by 1 hour. This is the #1 most common error that occurs to users. The

> other possibility is that your date is off by 1 month.



I believe I understood all of that. I don't style myself an expert by any means,

but I've been using Losmandy and A-P GEM's successfully for some years.

The date. time, and location were set correctly. I made the "wrong time" error

only once on an automated mount--years ago. A single sync on a star did

not fix the recent problem, but after I let the mount complete its slew to the wrong

side of the meridian (I had been stopping it) and then manually slewed to

a known star in the east and synched on it the problem was fixed. I can't

see that allowing the wrong-side slew to complete had anything to do

my ultimate success, but it was only after that that the synch fixed the

problem. This process started at about 10:30 PM last night, when little

sucker holes began to pop open, and ended at about 03:30 this morning

when the clouds thinned greatly to a light haze. I had been about to give up

due to the weather when the clearing came. Chasing the elusive sucker holes

required about five hours of sitting in my zerbat'ry reading e-books and

doing crosswords on the iPhone!

> Now, what is the easiest way to know that the mount is set up correctly?

> very simple. There are 2 ways. First, you can let the mount slew to the

> meridian by entering the meridian RA calculation as shown in the Time/LST window

> (button #4 in the Main Menu). The number shown under the heading "LST" is the

> RA number of the meridian at any given time. Take that number and enter it

> into the manual RA/DEC entry (button #7 in the Objects menu) and press GoTo.

> The mount will now slew to where it has calculated the meridian. You should

> know that LST = Local Sidereal Time = Meridian.



I'm pretty well versed on the meridian and sidereal time. My dear, late dad,

a former ship's navigator and then ship's pilot loooong before electronic

navigation aids, took care of that. And I could always go outside and look

at the surveyor's true-north/south marks on my driveway, left over from

the construction of my observatory. Which reminds me that I need to

re-paint those...

> Second way is to start with a proper sync on a known star on the proper

> side of the meridian, then go into the setup menu and press Park1. The scope

> will now slew to the meridian line on the northern horizon. If the scope and

> counterweight shaft are not parallel to the earth, then you know that your

> time or dat entry is wrong by some amount. For every hour, you will be off 15

> degrees. For every month, you will be off 15 degrees.

>

> Finally, DO NOT USE SYNC willy nilly. Yes, I know that if you come from

> another system such as the Meade autostar, you are used to the term sync. Well,

> it matters not in a fork mount which way you sync because forks don't have

> a proper side of the meridian. however in a GEM it is vitally important that

> you understand what "SYNC" does. It defines the relationship of the scope

> to the mount. If you sync on the wrong side, your scope becomes the

> counterweight. The mount IS NOT lost. It still points correctly and knows exactly

> where it is, but it points with the counterweights on top and the scope under

> the mount - not a good situation. This is why we recommend to use sync only

> once, when you first set up the mount, and never again after that. If you

> want to center a star and define that position, use Rcal, NOT sync. READ YOUR

> MANUAL!



> Rolando



I will RE-read the manual on that. It is true that I never paid much attention

to Rcal after my initial reading when I first got the mount; I suppose I "knew"

that synch worked, and I thought that was all I needed to know.

I was not aware that synching every night was an Autostar habit, but I have

seen the light that you have shone upon that. Since I have a very limited

view to the west, I don't often have occasion for a meridian flip. In the past,

however, I have not experienced difficulties in working after a meridian flip.



Thanks again, to you and to all.



David







----------------------------

#24934 Jun 2, 2009

In a message dated 6/2/2009 3:51:35 PM Central Daylight Time,

daffyddsant@... writes:



> I'm pretty well versed on the meridian and sidereal time.



I'm sure you know what a Meridian is. That's not the point here. What you

need to know is where the mount is calculating the meridian. You need to send

the mount to the meridian point calculated by the keypad in the Time/LST

menu. Take that number and enter it into the manual RA/Dec menu and press

GoTo. If the scope does not point to the meridian, then you must fix your enry

errors. If you don't do this, you can potentially get into trouble again when

you sync. Once you fix this, you NEVER ever have to touch your time/date

entries again (even in spring or fall when daylight savings takes effect, just

leave them alone). Do you understand what i am saying?



Rolando





**************

We found the real .Hotel California. and the .Seinfeld

. diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com.

(www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?nc

id=emlcntnew00000007)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#24935 Jun 2, 2009

I know it is impossible to determine how a person uses a mount but the SYNC feature could be made more difficult to use, moved deeper into the menu structure while RCAL should be more prominent. The other option might be to switch the functionality of the two commands. SYNC would then "synchronize the pointing" and RCAL would "re-calibrate the mount".

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 6/2/2009 9:42:33 AM Central Daylight Time,

> JunkMailGoesHere@... writes:

>

>

> > Use of the SYNC on these mounts should be associated with a 25 digit

> > password that has to be entered correctly within 10 seconds to proceed or it

> > becomes a RE-CAL by default.

> >

>

> Maybe we should disable the sync function after the first correct slew and

> turn every sync request into a Rcal. But then it would limit people who

> really know how GEMs work. So maybe we need to have a sobriety test before being

> allowed to use sync?

>

> Rolando

>

>

> **************

> We found the real ...Hotel California... and the ...Seinfeld

> ... diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com.

> (www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?nc

> id=emlcntnew00000007)

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



----------------------------

#24937 Jun 2, 2009

Personally I find an occasional RCAL when I am slightly off target the equivalent of popping bubble wrap - that beep when you press 9 is immensely satisfying... Go RCAL!



Chris F

----- Original Message -----

From: chris1011@...

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 3:29:54 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: 1200GTO: East is West and West is East

















In a message dated 6/2/2009 5:23:43 PM Central Daylight Time,

JunkMailGoesHere@... writes:



> I know it is impossible to determine how a person uses a mount but the

> SYNC feature could be made more difficult to use, moved deeper into the menu

> structure while RCAL should be more prominent. The other option might be to

> switch the functionality of the two commands. SYNC would then "synchronize

> the pointing" and RCAL would "re-calibrate the mount".

>

>



It's too late because other 3rd party software already is using Sync and

Rcal as intended.



Rolando



**************

We found the real .Hotel California. and the .Seinfeld

. diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com.

( www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?nc

id=emlcntnew00000007)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#24938 Jun 2, 2009

It certainly gets a bit of use when my polar alignment is "good enough" for visual use. The plunk it on the ground, find Polaris and roughly center it in the polar axis type of polar alignment.

"Beep", very handy indeed!



Rick.



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, cford81@... wrote:

>

> Personally I find an occasional RCAL when I am slightly off target the equivalent of popping bubble wrap - that beep when you press 9 is immensely satisfying... Go RCAL!

>

> Chris F

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: chris1011@...

> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 3:29:54 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific

> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: 1200GTO: East is West and West is East

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> In a message dated 6/2/2009 5:23:43 PM Central Daylight Time,

> JunkMailGoesHere@... writes:

>

> > I know it is impossible to determine how a person uses a mount but the

> > SYNC feature could be made more difficult to use, moved deeper into the menu

> > structure while RCAL should be more prominent. The other option might be to

> > switch the functionality of the two commands. SYNC would then "synchronize

> > the pointing" and RCAL would "re-calibrate the mount".

> >

> >

>

> It's too late because other 3rd party software already is using Sync and

> Rcal as intended.

>

> Rolando

>

> **************

> We found the real ...Hotel California... and the ...Seinfeld

> ... diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com.

> ( www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?nc

> id=emlcntnew00000007)

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>







----------------------------

#24939 Jun 3, 2009

chris1011 wrote:

> I'm sure you know what a Meridian is. That's not the point here. What you

> need to know is where the mount is calculating the meridian. You need to send

> the mount to the meridian point calculated by the keypad in the Time/LST

> menu. Take that number and enter it into the manual RA/Dec menu and press

> GoTo. If the scope does not point to the meridian, then you must fix your enry

> errors. If you don't do this, you can potentially get into trouble again when

> you sync. Once you fix this, you NEVER ever have to touch your time/date

> entries again (even in spring or fall when daylight savings takes effect, just

> leave them alone). Do you understand what i am saying?

>

> Rolando



Yes and no. I have done this procedure, but here's how I did it. First I set

the DEC in the hand controller to that of a bright star that was due to cross

the meridian within a few minutes. I set the R.A. for the meridian according

to the LST as displayed by the hand controller. I added a few seconds to

compensate for the slew time. I did a GoTo and then I stopped the mount

when the slew was complete. I watched the star drift across the center

of the field and I recorded the time it crossed with the most accurate time

source I could get.



I wasn't going to do this procedure all night, but I did it three times and

the accuracy I achieved was no better than an average of 33 seconds; i.e.,

the stars that I used drifted across the meridian 33 seconds earlier than

expected. I am not a geometer, but that number seemed to me to be

reasonably good. Taken with the fact that my ordinary GoTo's were very

good and guiding was good, I accepted that number as good enough

and never gave the matter another thought. I know you will correct me

if I am wrong on this, but once I have set the time and location in the

mount using the best sources I can, improvements can come only with

improved polar alignment.



I feel confident that you will tell me whether my method of finding

where the mount calculated the meridian is valid.



I have accepted the fact that your standards and mine are different;

I do not know as much about GEM's and geometry as you know,

and I'm not going to, as it is a bit late for me to choose a different

career path. As it is, I ask myself two questions:

Are the GoTo's on target? Yes. Does it guide well? Yes. End of story

for me. Simplistic, perhaps, but rather typical, I think. Beyond my recent

procedural error, I have not had an accuracy problem with a GEM,

including the Losmandy GM-8 and GM-11 that I previously owned,

so I do not spend time thinking about various matters that I can't do

anything about--my mount time is as accurate as I can enter it, my

geographic coordinates as close as I can measure. I have no idea of

the degree of orthogonality of my system, for example. I haven't

considered what I would do if I could easily measure it and I found it

to be off a bit--other than have something else to worry about, when

the mount is already performing well. I have far too few clear nights

to do that.



As to why having done this procedure (and making such adjustments

as necessary to have the mount slew as closely to the meridian as

possible) means that one never has to set the clock again, even to

compensate for DST -- no, I do not know why that is true; i.e., I do

not know why the mount can do accurate GoTo's if the local time in the

mount is off by one hour--unless the mount does one calculation of

UTC and forever calculates LST from that and my longitude without

further reference to LMT.



You did not mention doing a re-calibration RCal when the mount

identifies the meridian accurately. I take it that is meaningless?



Thanks for your time,



David



----------------------------

#24942 Jun 4, 2009

Hi there



This is a very interesting discussion. I do not have a permanent setup for

my Mach-1 yet, so have to set up and sync every time. And my experience is

from a handful of sessions only.



I have entered here from the world of Takahashi Temma and FS-2 driven

mounts, which 1) do not remember position after power off, 2) do not have

separate SYNC and RECAL just sync. In case of Temma, as one makes the

initial SYNC from a PC or handheld, there is always a need to check in

settings which side of the mount the scope is at the time. One can sync on

any object from the external software. In case of FS-2, one can sync on any

object AND last "slewed to" object, and to complete a SYNC command one need

to press left or right key to tell the drive on which side of the mount the

telescope is sitting.



In cases where it turned out that the setup was wrong and after GOTO

telescope started the flip, the quick fix was to stop GOTO, slew back to

the object the GOTO started from and re-sync telling proper telescope

orientation.



Personally I have found the AP drive system richer in functionality, in

particular for permanent configurations, where the mount can generally keep

track of where it points to for months. I also recognize SYNC and RECAL

have their own merits and uses, so maybe both should be available directly

from keypad? Or maybe the location in menu of SYNC and RECAL should be

reversed? In the current configuration, the user is naturally tempted to

press SYNC after setting the target, as this is just plainly accessible by

one keystroke...



Well this is a "novice" view, after a couple of session more I am quite

sure choosing the right option should be my "second nature"...



Best regards



Pawel Lancucki

Warsaw, Poland







----------------------------

#24943 Jun 4, 2009

In a message dated 6/4/2009 7:53:49 AM Central Daylight Time,

pawel.lancucki@... writes:



> This is a very interesting discussion. I do not have a permanent setup

> for

> my Mach-1 yet, so have to set up and sync every time. And my experience is

> from a handful of sessions only.

>



When you set up, have your keypad in Autostart "YES". Place the scope in

Park 1 position by hand (park 1 = scope pointing to northern horizon). Then

turn on power. The mount will now be ready to use. Enter an object, press

GoTo, when the scope has reached the position of the object center it via the

buttons. Press Rcal. You are finished. No need to hunt for 2 stars or any of

the other things. You can polar align using my Quick Drift method, which is

very powerful, very fast and accurate. Forget all other methods.



Rolando





**************

We found the real .Hotel California. and the .Seinfeld

. diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com.

(www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?nc

id=emlcntnew00000007)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#24944 Jun 4, 2009

I always find it interesting how many times Roland explains the TIME issue and the AP mounts. I would like to throw in my 2 cents worth and maybe it might sink in.



If you think about the sky and all the stars contained, you will come to the conclusion the stars are actually FIXED (not really, but the stars move so slowly as to be essentially non-moving). The mount therefore only needs 2 reference points to know WHERE it is. One of the reference points is the north pole (found during polar alignment). The second reference point is ANY star the mount is synced on initially. Once the 2 reference points are established, time is totally irrelevant! The PATTERN of the sky in total NEVER changes with TIME.



As far as Sync vs Recal. Think of it like this. When you look at a star with a GEM the star you view should always be on the opposite side of the mount as the scope. If you are looking at Vega as it rises in the east, Vega is in the east and you and the scope are on the west side of the mount. The only difference between Sync and Recal is that a Sync will define that relationship (star east, scope west or vise versa). If you should happen to Sync when the star has crossed the meridian you have just told the mount information that makes it think it is 180 degrees away from where it actaully IS (if Vega is now west of the meridian and the scope is west of the meridian and you Sync, you just told the mount you are on the east side even though you are NOT). The Sync defines a geometry of scope/mount. Recal only confirms that what you are looking at is what you are looking at. If you are looking at M108 and center it in the eyepiece and hit Recal, you have only confirmed that M108 is where the scope is centered.



I hope this helps. I just know when I think of it this way I can sleep better at night!



Norm

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 6/3/2009 6:29:36 PM Central Daylight Time,

> daffyddsant@... writes:

>

>

> > I do

> > not know why the mount can do accurate GoTo's if the local time in the

> > mount is off by one hour-

>

> The reason the mount can always slew to stars and deep sky objects

> correctly is because it does not use time to calculate where the stars are. It uses

> time/date/location/etc only to calculate the meridian line and the horizons.

> Why does it need to do this? Because it is a German equatorial, which means

> it has to know when to flip the scope to the other side (when the object is

> on the other side of the meridian). There is no other reason to know the

> time or the date for stars. Time/date/location is used to calculate the

> position of the sun, moon and planets but not the stars and deep sky objects.

>

> The reason to do accurate data entry of time/date and location is so that

> the mount does not flip at the wrong point in the sky, either too early or

> too late. This is to prevent the scope from hitting the pier. I hope that you

> understand now.

>

> Rolando

>

>

> **************

> We found the real ...Hotel California... and the ...Seinfeld

> ... diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com.

> (www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?nc

> id=emlcntnew00000007)

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



----------------------------

#24945 Jun 4, 2009

Rick,

The next version of the keypad will have sync buried deeper. It is too readily available now. We are also considering a warning message so that it is less likely to be misused.





Clear Skies!



Marj Christen

Vice President

Astro-Physics, Inc

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

Fax: 815-282-9847

www.astro-physics.com

Please include this e-mail with your response.







---------------



From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick K

Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:22 PM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1200GTO: East is West and West is East











I know it is impossible to determine how a person uses a mount but the SYNC feature could be made more difficult to use, moved deeper into the menu structure while RCAL should be more prominent. The other option might be to switch the functionality of the two commands. SYNC would then "synchronize the pointing" and RCAL would "re-calibrate the mount".



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , chris1011@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 6/2/2009 9:42:33 AM Central Daylight Time,

> JunkMailGoesHere@... writes:

>

>

> > Use of the SYNC on these mounts should be associated with a 25 digit

> > password that has to be entered correctly within 10 seconds to proceed or it

> > becomes a RE-CAL by default.

> >

>

> Maybe we should disable the sync function after the first correct slew and

> turn every sync request into a Rcal. But then it would limit people who

> really know how GEMs work. So maybe we need to have a sobriety test before being

> allowed to use sync?

>

> Rolando

>

>

> **************

> We found the real ...Hotel California... and the ...Seinfeld

> ... diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com.

> (www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?nc www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?nc>

> id=emlcntnew00000007)

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#24946 Jun 4, 2009

In a message dated 6/4/2009 5:15:41 PM Central Daylight Time,

wskystalker@... writes:



> I always find it interesting how many times Roland explains the TIME

> issue and the AP mounts. I would like to throw in my 2 cents worth and maybe

> it might sink in.

>

> If you think about the sky and all the stars contained, you will come to

> the conclusion the stars are actually FIXED (not really, but the stars move

> so slowly as to be essentially non-moving). The mount therefore only needs

> 2 reference points to know WHERE it is. One of the reference points is

> the north pole (found during polar alignment). The second reference point is

> ANY star the mount is synced on initially. Once the 2 reference points

> are established, time is totally irrelevant! The PATTERN of the sky in total

> NEVER changes with TIME.

>

> As far as Sync vs Recal. Think of it like this. When you look at a star

> with a GEM the star you view should always be on the opposite side of the

> mount as the scope. If you are looking at Vega as it rises in the east,

> Vega is in the east and you and the scope are on the west side of the mount.

> The only difference between Sync and Recal is that a Sync will define that

> relationship (star east, scope west or vise versa). If you should happen

> to Sync when the star has crossed the meridian you have just told the mount

> information that makes it think it is 180 degrees away from where it

> actaully IS (if Vega is now west of the meridian and the scope is west of the

> meridian and you Sync, you just told the mount you are on the east side even

> though you are NOT). The Sync defines a geometry of scope/mount. Recal

> only confirms that what you are looking at is what you are looking at. If you

> are looking at M108 and center it in the eyepiece and hit Recal, you have

> only confirmed that M108 is where the scope is centered.

>

> I hope this helps. I just know when I think of it this way I can sleep

> better at night!

>

> Norm



Very nice description. Thanks.



Rolando





**************

We found the real .Hotel California. and the .Seinfeld

. diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com.

(www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?nc

id=emlcntnew00000007)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#24953 Jun 4, 2009

This sounds like an excellent plan! It might simplify things in that some of these 'user generated' problems will be reduced. I know that this will not end the misuse of the SYNC command but it may minimize it significantly. It seems this is one of THE most misunderstood aspects of the AP mount and is brought up at least once a month and occasionally more often.



Rick.



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Marj" marj@...> wrote:

>

> Rick,

> The next version of the keypad will have sync buried deeper. It is too readily available now. We are also considering a warning message so that it is less likely to be misused.

>

>

> Clear Skies!

>

> Marj Christen

> Vice President

> Astro-Physics, Inc

> 11250 Forest Hills Road

> Machesney Park, IL 61115

> Phone: 815-282-1513

> Fax: 815-282-9847

> www.astro-physics.com

> Please include this e-mail with your response.

>

>

>

---------------

>

> From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick K

> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:22 PM

> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1200GTO: East is West and West is East

>

>

>

>

>

> I know it is impossible to determine how a person uses a mount but the SYNC feature could be made more difficult to use, moved deeper into the menu structure while RCAL should be more prominent. The other option might be to switch the functionality of the two commands. SYNC would then "synchronize the pointing" and RCAL would "re-calibrate the mount".

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , chris1011@ wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 6/2/2009 9:42:33 AM Central Daylight Time,

> > JunkMailGoesHere@ writes:

> >

> >

> > > Use of the SYNC on these mounts should be associated with a 25 digit

> > > password that has to be entered correctly within 10 seconds to proceed or it

> > > becomes a RE-CAL by default.

> > >

> >

> > Maybe we should disable the sync function after the first correct slew and

> > turn every sync request into a Rcal. But then it would limit people who

> > really know how GEMs work. So maybe we need to have a sobriety test before being

> > allowed to use sync?

> >

> > Rolando

> >

> >

> > **************

> > We found the real .......Hotel California........ and the .......Seinfeld

> > ........ diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com.

> > (www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?nc www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?nc>

> > id=emlcntnew00000007)

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>







----------------------------

#24954 Jun 4, 2009

This explanation paints a very pretty picture! Excellent and easy (for me at least) to visualize.



Rick.

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Norm" wskystalker@...> wrote:

>

> I always find it interesting how many times Roland explains the TIME issue and the AP mounts. I would like to throw in my 2 cents worth and maybe it might sink in.

>

> If you think about the sky and all the stars contained, you will come to the conclusion the stars are actually FIXED (not really, but the stars move so slowly as to be essentially non-moving). The mount therefore only needs 2 reference points to know WHERE it is. One of the reference points is the north pole (found during polar alignment). The second reference point is ANY star the mount is synced on initially. Once the 2 reference points are established, time is totally irrelevant! The PATTERN of the sky in total NEVER changes with TIME.

>

> As far as Sync vs Recal. Think of it like this. When you look at a star with a GEM the star you view should always be on the opposite side of the mount as the scope. If you are looking at Vega as it rises in the east, Vega is in the east and you and the scope are on the west side of the mount. The only difference between Sync and Recal is that a Sync will define that relationship (star east, scope west or vise versa). If you should happen to Sync when the star has crossed the meridian you have just told the mount information that makes it think it is 180 degrees away from where it actaully IS (if Vega is now west of the meridian and the scope is west of the meridian and you Sync, you just told the mount you are on the east side even though you are NOT). The Sync defines a geometry of scope/mount. Recal only confirms that what you are looking at is what you are looking at. If you are looking at M108 and center it in the eyepiece and hit Recal, you have only confirmed that M108 is where the scope is centered.

>

> I hope this helps. I just know when I think of it this way I can sleep better at night!

>

> Norm

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@ wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 6/3/2009 6:29:36 PM Central Daylight Time,

> > daffyddsant@ writes:

> >

> >

> > > I do

> > > not know why the mount can do accurate GoTo's if the local time in the

> > > mount is off by one hour-

> >

> > The reason the mount can always slew to stars and deep sky objects

> > correctly is because it does not use time to calculate where the stars are. It uses

> > time/date/location/etc only to calculate the meridian line and the horizons.

> > Why does it need to do this? Because it is a German equatorial, which means

> > it has to know when to flip the scope to the other side (when the object is

> > on the other side of the meridian). There is no other reason to know the

> > time or the date for stars. Time/date/location is used to calculate the

> > position of the sun, moon and planets but not the stars and deep sky objects.

> >

> > The reason to do accurate data entry of time/date and location is so that

> > the mount does not flip at the wrong point in the sky, either too early or

> > too late. This is to prevent the scope from hitting the pier. I hope that you

> > understand now.

> >

> > Rolando

> >

> >

> > **************

> > We found the real ...Hotel California... and the ...Seinfeld

> > ... diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com.

> > (www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?nc

> > id=emlcntnew00000007)

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>



----------------------------

#24955 Jun 4, 2009

I would like to ask one follow up question... Will a better polar alignment

result in better goto's after your sync or is 'close',close enough?

Thanks,

Chuck/divenuts

----- Original Message -----

From: "Rick K" JunkMailGoesHere@...>

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 11:35 PM

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 1200GTO: East is West and West is East





This explanation paints a very pretty picture! Excellent and easy (for me at

least) to visualize.



Rick.



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Norm" wskystalker@...> wrote:

>

> I always find it interesting how many times Roland explains the TIME issue

> and the AP mounts. I would like to throw in my 2 cents worth and maybe it

> might sink in.

>

> If you think about the sky and all the stars contained, you will come to

> the conclusion the stars are actually FIXED (not really, but the stars

> move so slowly as to be essentially non-moving). The mount therefore only

> needs 2 reference points to know WHERE it is. One of the reference points

> is the north pole (found during polar alignment). The second reference

> point is ANY star the mount is synced on initially. Once the 2 reference

> points are established, time is totally irrelevant! The PATTERN of the

> sky in total NEVER changes with TIME.

>

> As far as Sync vs Recal. Think of it like this. When you look at a star

> with a GEM the star you view should always be on the opposite side of the

> mount as the scope. If you are looking at Vega as it rises in the east,

> Vega is in the east and you and the scope are on the west side of the

> mount. The only difference between Sync and Recal is that a Sync will

> define that relationship (star east, scope west or vise versa). If you

> should happen to Sync when the star has crossed the meridian you have just

> told the mount information that makes it think it is 180 degrees away from

> where it actaully IS (if Vega is now west of the meridian and the scope is

> west of the meridian and you Sync, you just told the mount you are on the

> east side even though you are NOT). The Sync defines a geometry of

> scope/mount. Recal only confirms that what you are looking at is what you

> are looking at. If you are looking at M108 and center it in the eyepiece

> and hit Recal, you have only confirmed that M108 is where the scope is

> centered.

>

> I hope this helps. I just know when I think of it this way I can sleep

> better at night!

>

> Norm

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@ wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 6/3/2009 6:29:36 PM Central Daylight Time,

> > daffyddsant@ writes:

> >

> >

> > > I do

> > > not know why the mount can do accurate GoTo's if the local time in the

> > > mount is off by one hour-

> >

> > The reason the mount can always slew to stars and deep sky objects

> > correctly is because it does not use time to calculate where the stars

> > are. It uses

> > time/date/location/etc only to calculate the meridian line and the

> > horizons.

> > Why does it need to do this? Because it is a German equatorial, which

> > means

> > it has to know when to flip the scope to the other side (when the object

> > is

> > on the other side of the meridian). There is no other reason to know the

> > time or the date for stars. Time/date/location is used to calculate the

> > position of the sun, moon and planets but not the stars and deep sky

> > objects.

> >

> > The reason to do accurate data entry of time/date and location is so

> > that

> > the mount does not flip at the wrong point in the sky, either too early

> > or

> > too late. This is to prevent the scope from hitting the pier. I hope

> > that you

> > understand now.

> >

> > Rolando

> >

> >

> > **************

> > We found the real .?~Hotel California.?T and the .?~Seinfeld

> > .?T diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com.

> > (www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?nc

> > id=emlcntnew00000007)

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>









---------------



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see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links







----------------------------

#24957 Jun 5, 2009

When you set up, have your keypad in Autostart "YES". Place the scope in

> Park 1 position by hand (park 1 = scope pointing to northern horizon).

Then > turn on power. The mount will now be ready to use. Enter an object, press



> GoTo, when the scope has reached the position of the object center it via

the > buttons. Press Rcal. You are finished. No need to hunt for 2 stars or any

of > the other things. You can polar align using my Quick Drift method, which

is > very powerful, very fast and accurate. Forget all other methods.

>

> Rolando



Hi Roland



Thank you again for advice. This is exactly what I do now.



I have also found that slewing manually to an unambiguous star (i.e. one

which is clearly to the east or to the west) and setting the scope on the

right side of the mount in an unambiguous way - and than syncing - is as

fast as starting from Park-1.



If I could only forget the Takahashi polar scopes....



Best regards



Pawel Lancucki

Warsaw, Poland



----------------------------

#24958 Jun 5, 2009

It seems more like once a week! :) Every time this comes up I think "why

doesn't Rolando write this up and post it at the AP website"? With all

the time our fearless leader spends on this topic, he could have made a

few dozen APO's - getting me a few steps closer to that 155 I signed up

for many, many moons ago. :)



cheers & beers,

Chris

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Rick K" JunkMailGoesHere@...> wrote:

>

> This sounds like an excellent plan! It might simplify things in that

some of these 'user generated' problems will be reduced. I know that

this will not end the misuse of the SYNC command but it may minimize it

significantly. It seems this is one of THE most misunderstood aspects of

the AP mount and is brought up at least once a month and occasionally

more often.

>

> Rick.



----------------------------

#24961 Jun 5, 2009

I agree...he has better things to do! You must admit, however, his customer service is SECOND TO NONE!!!!!!!!!!



Norm





--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Curran" curran.chris@...> wrote:

>

> It seems more like once a week! :) Every time this comes up I think "why

> doesn't Rolando write this up and post it at the AP website"? With all

> the time our fearless leader spends on this topic, he could have made a

> few dozen APO's - getting me a few steps closer to that 155 I signed up

> for many, many moons ago. :)

>

> cheers & beers,

> Chris

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Rick K" JunkMailGoesHere@> wrote:

> >

> > This sounds like an excellent plan! It might simplify things in that

> some of these 'user generated' problems will be reduced. I know that

> this will not end the misuse of the SYNC command but it may minimize it

> significantly. It seems this is one of THE most misunderstood aspects of

> the AP mount and is brought up at least once a month and occasionally

> more often.

> >

> > Rick.

>



----------------------------

#24962 Jun 5, 2009

That sure is TRUE. Christine bailed me out of a jam last new moon weekend. My hand controller kept rebooting. I was *sure* that my PS was fine, but alas... she was right! AP (phone) support ROCKS.



cheers & beers,

Chris

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Norm" wskystalker@...> wrote:

>

> I agree...he has better things to do! You must admit, however, his customer service is SECOND TO NONE!!!!!!!!!!

>

> Norm

>



----------------------------

#24966 Jun 5, 2009

I'll second that.



BARKEEP! A round of sarsaparillas for the AP crew!



Tom

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Curran" curran.chris@...> wrote:

>

> That sure is TRUE. Christine bailed me out of a jam last new moon weekend. My hand controller kept rebooting. I was *sure* that my PS was fine, but alas... she was right! AP (phone) support ROCKS.

>

> cheers & beers,

> Chris

>


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