Re: [ap-gto] 1200GTO DEC worm thrust washer adjustment


Aug 4, 2004

 


----------------------------

#10435 Aug 4, 2004

Hello,



I'm am current evaluating the AP900/1200 mechanical design against

that of the ME with a view towards a purchase within the next couple

of years. I have owned many mounts in the past, and am lured by the

massive polar thrust surface seemingly present on the high end AP

mounts - compared to the ME - which seems to have little in the way

of such a load bearing surface. Can anyone point me to pictures or

an explanation of exactly how the AP polar bearings and surfaces are

designed / engaged ?



Thanks



Paul



----------------------------

#15620 Aug 13, 2006

Hello,



my name is Gianluca Valentini and I write from Italy. I apologize for the long message, but I would like to know if anyone can help me understand and maybe fix my problem.



My 1200 is permanently mounted in my observatory which is kept at 35% humidity when not operating.

On Aug 10th I had a normal imaging session: plugged in the mount, turned it on, resume from park pos. 3 (my usual) and pointed the sun, centered the sun and used the re-cal function. Everything normal after that, including my usual parking in pos. 3 and unplugging of the mount (there were thunderstorms coming).



Today, Aug. 13th, I went back, plugged it in, powered on, but

(1) the mount failed a goto command to the sun. I stopped it as soon as I realized it was off, pointed at the sun and synced it. But the mount was still "lost": it could not find any of the 3 parking positions, ending up in improbable positions. I must have turned off and re-started the mount 5 or 6 times before giving up. This had happened to me before, but, unlike this time, it was always solved by the sync function.



But I was in for another surprise!

(2) The mount was also not tracking in RA and this is an absolute first time for me. I can't understand what could have caused it. Nobody has access to my observatory and it was tracking perfectly as usual 3 days ago!

I made this test: if the mount had not been tracking at all in RA, then, with slewing speed set to 1, if I acted on the E direction button the image should stay still (or almost). But keeping the button pressed would over-correct the tracking problem, so I'm totally lost!



Some more info:

a) I always park and unplug my mount at the end of every session;

b) the time and location data are correct to the second;

c) the mount is very well polar aligned (drift alignment);

d) nobody has accessed the observatory from the 10th (normal functioning) to the 13th (faulty functioning);

e) I am 100% sure the mount was unplugged on the 10th (and hence during the storms that came after), because I had to plug it in today and I remember that very well.



Thanks for any advice you can give me.



Ciao

Gianluca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#15621 Aug 13, 2006

Hi Gianluca,



You might want to check your hand controller cable. Just unplug in

and plug it again. I had some problems with my AP900GTO lately and it

seems that my hand controller cable rubber got frayed maybe because

of the heat and low humidity. My mount is still working now and I

plan to get new cables this Oct.



Regards,

Chris





At 02:25 AM 8/14/2006 +0200, you wrote: >Hello,

>

>my name is Gianluca Valentini and I write from Italy. I apologize

>for the long message, but I would like to know if anyone can help me

>understand and maybe fix my problem.

>

>My 1200 is permanently mounted in my observatory which is kept at

>35% humidity when not operating.

>On Aug 10th I had a normal imaging session: plugged in the mount,

>turned it on, resume from park pos. 3 (my usual) and pointed the

>sun, centered the sun and used the re-cal function. Everything

>normal after that, including my usual parking in pos. 3 and

>unplugging of the mount (there were thunderstorms coming).

>

>Today, Aug. 13th, I went back, plugged it in, powered on, but

>(1) the mount failed a goto command to the sun. I stopped it as soon

>as I realized it was off, pointed at the sun and synced it. But the

>mount was still "lost": it could not find any of the 3 parking

>positions, ending up in improbable positions. I must have turned off

>and re-started the mount 5 or 6 times before giving up. This had

>happened to me before, but, unlike this time, it was always solved

>by the sync function.

>

>But I was in for another surprise!

>(2) The mount was also not tracking in RA and this is an absolute

>first time for me. I can't understand what could have caused it.

>Nobody has access to my observatory and it was tracking perfectly as

>usual 3 days ago!

>I made this test: if the mount had not been tracking at all in RA,

>then, with slewing speed set to 1, if I acted on the E direction

>button the image should stay still (or almost). But keeping the

>button pressed would over-correct the tracking problem, so I'm totally lost!

>

>Some more info:

>a) I always park and unplug my mount at the end of every session;

>b) the time and location data are correct to the second;

>c) the mount is very well polar aligned (drift alignment);

>d) nobody has accessed the observatory from the 10th (normal

>functioning) to the 13th (faulty functioning);

>e) I am 100% sure the mount was unplugged on the 10th (and hence

>during the storms that came after), because I had to plug it in

>today and I remember that very well.

>

>Thanks for any advice you can give me.

>

>Ciao

>Gianluca

>

>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

>see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

>Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>



Christopher and Vicky Go

Christone Industries

Manufacturer and Exporter of Quality Fossil Stone and Wrought Iron Furniture

Cebu, Philippines

www.christone.net

astropage: astro.cstoneind.com







----------------------------

#15622 Aug 13, 2006

You may also want to disconnect the hand controller and use Ray's PulseGuide

program to see if the problems are consistent.



Steve



-----Original Message-----

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

Christopher Go

Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 9:54 PM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?



Hi Gianluca,



You might want to check your hand controller cable. Just unplug in

and plug it again. I had some problems with my AP900GTO lately and it

seems that my hand controller cable rubber got frayed maybe because

of the heat and low humidity. My mount is still working now and I

plan to get new cables this Oct.



Regards,

Chris





At 02:25 AM 8/14/2006 +0200, you wrote: >Hello,

>

>my name is Gianluca Valentini and I write from Italy. I apologize

>for the long message, but I would like to know if anyone can help me

>understand and maybe fix my problem.

>

>My 1200 is permanently mounted in my observatory which is kept at

>35% humidity when not operating.

>On Aug 10th I had a normal imaging session: plugged in the mount,

>turned it on, resume from park pos. 3 (my usual) and pointed the

>sun, centered the sun and used the re-cal function. Everything

>normal after that, including my usual parking in pos. 3 and

>unplugging of the mount (there were thunderstorms coming).

>

>Today, Aug. 13th, I went back, plugged it in, powered on, but

>(1) the mount failed a goto command to the sun. I stopped it as soon

>as I realized it was off, pointed at the sun and synced it. But the

>mount was still "lost": it could not find any of the 3 parking

>positions, ending up in improbable positions. I must have turned off

>and re-started the mount 5 or 6 times before giving up. This had

>happened to me before, but, unlike this time, it was always solved

>by the sync function.

>

>But I was in for another surprise!

>(2) The mount was also not tracking in RA and this is an absolute

>first time for me. I can't understand what could have caused it.

>Nobody has access to my observatory and it was tracking perfectly as

>usual 3 days ago!

>I made this test: if the mount had not been tracking at all in RA,

>then, with slewing speed set to 1, if I acted on the E direction

>button the image should stay still (or almost). But keeping the

>button pressed would over-correct the tracking problem, so I'm totally

lost! >

>Some more info:

>a) I always park and unplug my mount at the end of every session;

>b) the time and location data are correct to the second;

>c) the mount is very well polar aligned (drift alignment);

>d) nobody has accessed the observatory from the 10th (normal

>functioning) to the 13th (faulty functioning);

>e) I am 100% sure the mount was unplugged on the 10th (and hence

>during the storms that came after), because I had to plug it in

>today and I remember that very well.

>

>Thanks for any advice you can give me.

>

>Ciao

>Gianluca

>

>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

>see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

>Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>



Christopher and Vicky Go

Christone Industries

Manufacturer and Exporter of Quality Fossil Stone and Wrought Iron Furniture

Cebu, Philippines

www.christone.net

astropage: astro.cstoneind.com







To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

Yahoo! Groups Links



----------------------------

#15623 Aug 13, 2006

1) Is it possible that you change the N/S switch when you were

plugging it back in on the 13th? I did this once.



2) Make sure that your DC power supply is up to full power before

turning it on.



3) Check your power supply. It may have gotten fried during the

storms



4) Sometimes I get this kind of weird behavior when I leave my

autoguider on between targets. Doesn't sound like this is your

problem, but it is somethign to rule out.



let us know what it was.



Dave

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Reilly" sreilly@...> wrote:

>

> You may also want to disconnect the hand controller and use Ray's

PulseGuide

> program to see if the problems are consistent.

>

> Steve

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf Of

> Christopher Go

> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 9:54 PM

> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?

>

> Hi Gianluca,

>

> You might want to check your hand controller cable. Just unplug in

> and plug it again. I had some problems with my AP900GTO lately and

it

> seems that my hand controller cable rubber got frayed maybe because

> of the heat and low humidity. My mount is still working now and I

> plan to get new cables this Oct.

>

> Regards,

> Chris

>

>

> At 02:25 AM 8/14/2006 +0200, you wrote:

> >Hello,

> >

> >my name is Gianluca Valentini and I write from Italy. I apologize

> >for the long message, but I would like to know if anyone can help

me

> >understand and maybe fix my problem.

> >

> >My 1200 is permanently mounted in my observatory which is kept at

> >35% humidity when not operating.

> >On Aug 10th I had a normal imaging session: plugged in the mount,

> >turned it on, resume from park pos. 3 (my usual) and pointed the

> >sun, centered the sun and used the re-cal function. Everything

> >normal after that, including my usual parking in pos. 3 and

> >unplugging of the mount (there were thunderstorms coming).

> >

> >Today, Aug. 13th, I went back, plugged it in, powered on, but

> >(1) the mount failed a goto command to the sun. I stopped it as

soon

> >as I realized it was off, pointed at the sun and synced it. But

the

> >mount was still "lost": it could not find any of the 3 parking

> >positions, ending up in improbable positions. I must have turned

off

> >and re-started the mount 5 or 6 times before giving up. This had

> >happened to me before, but, unlike this time, it was always solved

> >by the sync function.

> >

> >But I was in for another surprise!

> >(2) The mount was also not tracking in RA and this is an absolute

> >first time for me. I can't understand what could have caused it.

> >Nobody has access to my observatory and it was tracking perfectly

as

> >usual 3 days ago!

> >I made this test: if the mount had not been tracking at all in RA,

> >then, with slewing speed set to 1, if I acted on the E direction

> >button the image should stay still (or almost). But keeping the

> >button pressed would over-correct the tracking problem, so I'm

totally

> lost!

> >

> >Some more info:

> >a) I always park and unplug my mount at the end of every session;

> >b) the time and location data are correct to the second;

> >c) the mount is very well polar aligned (drift alignment);

> >d) nobody has accessed the observatory from the 10th (normal

> >functioning) to the 13th (faulty functioning);

> >e) I am 100% sure the mount was unplugged on the 10th (and hence

> >during the storms that came after), because I had to plug it in

> >today and I remember that very well.

> >

> >Thanks for any advice you can give me.

> >

> >Ciao

> >Gianluca

> >

> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> >see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

> >Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> Christopher and Vicky Go

> Christone Industries

> Manufacturer and Exporter of Quality Fossil Stone and Wrought Iron

Furniture

> Cebu, Philippines

> www.christone.net

> astropage: astro.cstoneind.com

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>







----------------------------

#15624 Aug 14, 2006

Hello Chris, Steve and Dave and thank you all for your help. Alas nothing seems to fix my "baby"! Speaking on the phone with the Italian technical assistant for the AP distributor, we went through a series of checks (time, location and all the routine tests that could be done on the phone) but they were all negative. So there must be something wrong, but we don't know what yet. Maybe the controller chip got fried but who knows how! I am 100% sure the mount was unplugged during the storms, so what could it be?

Even a STATUS request gives me an "all systems go" reply, so I don't get it!!



However to reply to your questions:



CHRIS

I will sure try to unplug and re-connect the hand controller. Thanks for your reply.

STEVE

I will also try Pulseguide to see if I can get to know something more. Thanks.

DAVE

Following your order:

1) No. It is impossible because my mount is always assembled so all I do when I get in the observatory is plug in and turn on. It is also quite difficult to move the button by mistake (hitting it or similar) so I would rule out this option. But I'll sure double check.

2) I have not checked my power supply after the storms, but the rest of my equipment (pc and de-humidifier) works fine and they are all connected to the same power supply. Is there a particular power requirement that the mount has and the other equipment doesn't?

3) How does one check his power supply? I wouldn't know where to start! I'm quite useless in these things.

4) I have never used the autoguider yet (no DSO for the time being: concentrating on the solar system).



Ciao all



Luca



----- Original Message -----

From: mogulskier_groups

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:28 AM

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?





1) Is it possible that you change the N/S switch when you were

plugging it back in on the 13th? I did this once.



2) Make sure that your DC power supply is up to full power before

turning it on.



3) Check your power supply. It may have gotten fried during the

storms



4) Sometimes I get this kind of weird behavior when I leave my

autoguider on between targets. Doesn't sound like this is your

problem, but it is somethign to rule out.



let us know what it was.



Dave



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Reilly" sreilly@...> wrote:

>

> You may also want to disconnect the hand controller and use Ray's

PulseGuide

> program to see if the problems are consistent.

>

> Steve

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf Of

> Christopher Go

> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 9:54 PM

> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?

>

> Hi Gianluca,

>

> You might want to check your hand controller cable. Just unplug in

> and plug it again. I had some problems with my AP900GTO lately and

it

> seems that my hand controller cable rubber got frayed maybe because

> of the heat and low humidity. My mount is still working now and I

> plan to get new cables this Oct.

>

> Regards,

> Chris

>

>

> At 02:25 AM 8/14/2006 +0200, you wrote:

> >Hello,

> >

> >my name is Gianluca Valentini and I write from Italy. I apologize

> >for the long message, but I would like to know if anyone can help

me

> >understand and maybe fix my problem.

> >

> >My 1200 is permanently mounted in my observatory which is kept at

> >35% humidity when not operating.

> >On Aug 10th I had a normal imaging session: plugged in the mount,

> >turned it on, resume from park pos. 3 (my usual) and pointed the

> >sun, centered the sun and used the re-cal function. Everything

> >normal after that, including my usual parking in pos. 3 and

> >unplugging of the mount (there were thunderstorms coming).

> >

> >Today, Aug. 13th, I went back, plugged it in, powered on, but

> >(1) the mount failed a goto command to the sun. I stopped it as

soon

> >as I realized it was off, pointed at the sun and synced it. But

the

> >mount was still "lost": it could not find any of the 3 parking

> >positions, ending up in improbable positions. I must have turned

off

> >and re-started the mount 5 or 6 times before giving up. This had

> >happened to me before, but, unlike this time, it was always solved

> >by the sync function.

> >

> >But I was in for another surprise!

> >(2) The mount was also not tracking in RA and this is an absolute

> >first time for me. I can't understand what could have caused it.

> >Nobody has access to my observatory and it was tracking perfectly

as

> >usual 3 days ago!

> >I made this test: if the mount had not been tracking at all in RA,

> >then, with slewing speed set to 1, if I acted on the E direction

> >button the image should stay still (or almost). But keeping the

> >button pressed would over-correct the tracking problem, so I'm

totally

> lost!

> >

> >Some more info:

> >a) I always park and unplug my mount at the end of every session;

> >b) the time and location data are correct to the second;

> >c) the mount is very well polar aligned (drift alignment);

> >d) nobody has accessed the observatory from the 10th (normal

> >functioning) to the 13th (faulty functioning);

> >e) I am 100% sure the mount was unplugged on the 10th (and hence

> >during the storms that came after), because I had to plug it in

> >today and I remember that very well.

> >

> >Thanks for any advice you can give me.

> >

> >Ciao

> >Gianluca

> >

> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> >see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

> >Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> Christopher and Vicky Go

> Christone Industries

> Manufacturer and Exporter of Quality Fossil Stone and Wrought Iron

Furniture

> Cebu, Philippines

> www.christone.net

> astropage: astro.cstoneind.com

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#15625 Aug 14, 2006

Luca

Sorry you are having such a frustrating problem with your mount. Did you

know that a nearby lightning strike can damage the controller and/or keypad

electronics even if the power supply is not connected? Lightning is very

unpredictable and the induced electric fields caused by nearby strikes can

be very large. Could you borrow a controller from someone just to see if

yours is damaged? I think the controller for the 900 and 1200 mounts are

the same. Using Pulseguide to control the mount (without the keypad

connected) will check whether a damaged keypad is part of your problem.

Good Luck!



Richard











At 02:25 AM 8/14/2006 +0200, you wrote:

>Hello,

>

>my name is Gianluca Valentini and I write from Italy. I apologize for the

>long message, but I would like to know if anyone can help me understand

>and maybe fix my problem.

>

>My 1200 is permanently mounted in my observatory which is kept at 35%

>humidity when not operating.

>On Aug 10th I had a normal imaging session: plugged in the mount, turned

>it on, resume from park pos. 3 (my usual) and pointed the sun, centered

>the sun and used the re-cal function. Everything normal after that,

>including my usual parking in pos. 3 and unplugging of the mount (there

>were thunderstorms coming).

>

>Today, Aug. 13th, I went back, plugged it in, powered on, but

>(1) the mount failed a goto command to the sun. I stopped it as soon as I

>realized it was off, pointed at the sun and synced it. But the mount was

>still "lost": it could not find any of the 3 parking positions, ending up

>in improbable positions. I must have turned off and re-started the mount 5

>or 6 times before giving up. This had happened to me before, but, unlike

>this time, it was always solved by the sync function.

>

>But I was in for another surprise!

>(2) The mount was also not tracking in RA and this is an absolute first

>time for me. I can't understand what could have caused it. Nobody has

>access to my observatory and it was tracking perfectly as usual 3 days ago!

>I made this test: if the mount had not been tracking at all in RA, then,

>with slewing speed set to 1, if I acted on the E direction button the

>image should stay still (or almost). But keeping the button pressed would

>over-correct the tracking problem, so I'm totally lost!

>

>Some more info:

>a) I always park and unplug my mount at the end of every session;

>b) the time and location data are correct to the second;

>c) the mount is very well polar aligned (drift alignment);

>d) nobody has accessed the observatory from the 10th (normal functioning)

>to the 13th (faulty functioning);

>e) I am 100% sure the mount was unplugged on the 10th (and hence during

>the storms that came after), because I had to plug it in today and I

>remember that very well.

>

>Thanks for any advice you can give me.

>

>Ciao

>Gianluca

>

>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#15626 Aug 14, 2006

Hello Richard and thank you very much for your sympathy. I thought that, once unplugged, the mount would have been safe. That is the reason why I took thr habit of unplugging at the end of every session!

Unfortunately I don't know anybody that has an AP mount, so I guess I'm going to have to wait for someone to come and check it from the Italian tech support. But the month of august is tragic here in Italy, since everyone (including me) is on holiday and I'm afraid that I won't find anyone until sept!



Just my luck: now that the solar active region 904 is showing off and I've got all the time in the world!



Ciao Richard



Luca

----- Original Message -----

From: Richard Seavey

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 2:41 PM

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?





Luca

Sorry you are having such a frustrating problem with your mount. Did you

know that a nearby lightning strike can damage the controller and/or keypad

electronics even if the power supply is not connected? Lightning is very

unpredictable and the induced electric fields caused by nearby strikes can

be very large. Could you borrow a controller from someone just to see if

yours is damaged? I think the controller for the 900 and 1200 mounts are

the same. Using Pulseguide to control the mount (without the keypad

connected) will check whether a damaged keypad is part of your problem.

Good Luck!



Richard



At 02:25 AM 8/14/2006 +0200, you wrote:



>Hello,

>

>my name is Gianluca Valentini and I write from Italy. I apologize for the

>long message, but I would like to know if anyone can help me understand

>and maybe fix my problem.

>

>My 1200 is permanently mounted in my observatory which is kept at 35%

>humidity when not operating.

>On Aug 10th I had a normal imaging session: plugged in the mount, turned

>it on, resume from park pos. 3 (my usual) and pointed the sun, centered

>the sun and used the re-cal function. Everything normal after that,

>including my usual parking in pos. 3 and unplugging of the mount (there

>were thunderstorms coming).

>

>Today, Aug. 13th, I went back, plugged it in, powered on, but

>(1) the mount failed a goto command to the sun. I stopped it as soon as I

>realized it was off, pointed at the sun and synced it. But the mount was

>still "lost": it could not find any of the 3 parking positions, ending up

>in improbable positions. I must have turned off and re-started the mount 5

>or 6 times before giving up. This had happened to me before, but, unlike

>this time, it was always solved by the sync function.

>

>But I was in for another surprise!

>(2) The mount was also not tracking in RA and this is an absolute first

>time for me. I can't understand what could have caused it. Nobody has

>access to my observatory and it was tracking perfectly as usual 3 days ago!

>I made this test: if the mount had not been tracking at all in RA, then,

>with slewing speed set to 1, if I acted on the E direction button the

>image should stay still (or almost). But keeping the button pressed would

>over-correct the tracking problem, so I'm totally lost!

>

>Some more info:

>a) I always park and unplug my mount at the end of every session;

>b) the time and location data are correct to the second;

>c) the mount is very well polar aligned (drift alignment);

>d) nobody has accessed the observatory from the 10th (normal functioning)

>to the 13th (faulty functioning);

>e) I am 100% sure the mount was unplugged on the 10th (and hence during

>the storms that came after), because I had to plug it in today and I

>remember that very well.

>

>Thanks for any advice you can give me.

>

>Ciao

>Gianluca

>

>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#15627 Aug 14, 2006

maybe the mount is not receiving full operating voltage?



If I have a high resistance connection to my battery mine will behave

erratically



when I deliver proper voltage to it, the problem stops.



Sometimes the DC connector that connects to the control box has some

play and that contributes to the problem





--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Luca" astrovale@...> wrote:

>

> Hello,

>

> my name is Gianluca Valentini and I write from Italy. I apologize

for the long message, but I would like to know if anyone can help me

understand and maybe fix my problem.

>

> My 1200 is permanently mounted in my observatory which is kept at

35% humidity when not operating.

> On Aug 10th I had a normal imaging session: plugged in the mount,

turned it on, resume from park pos. 3 (my usual) and pointed the sun,

centered the sun and used the re-cal function. Everything normal

after that, including my usual parking in pos. 3 and unplugging of

the mount (there were thunderstorms coming).

>

> Today, Aug. 13th, I went back, plugged it in, powered on, but

> (1) the mount failed a goto command to the sun. I stopped it as

soon as I realized it was off, pointed at the sun and synced it. But

the mount was still "lost": it could not find any of the 3 parking

positions, ending up in improbable positions. I must have turned off

and re-started the mount 5 or 6 times before giving up. This had

happened to me before, but, unlike this time, it was always solved by

the sync function.

>

> But I was in for another surprise!

> (2) The mount was also not tracking in RA and this is an absolute

first time for me. I can't understand what could have caused it.

Nobody has access to my observatory and it was tracking perfectly as

usual 3 days ago!

> I made this test: if the mount had not been tracking at all in RA,

then, with slewing speed set to 1, if I acted on the E direction

button the image should stay still (or almost). But keeping the

button pressed would over-correct the tracking problem, so I'm

totally lost!

>

> Some more info:

> a) I always park and unplug my mount at the end of every session;

> b) the time and location data are correct to the second;

> c) the mount is very well polar aligned (drift alignment);

> d) nobody has accessed the observatory from the 10th (normal

functioning) to the 13th (faulty functioning);

> e) I am 100% sure the mount was unplugged on the 10th (and hence

during the storms that came after), because I had to plug it in today

and I remember that very well.

>

> Thanks for any advice you can give me.

>

> Ciao

> Gianluca

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



----------------------------

#15628 Aug 14, 2006

did you verify the 'red' power light is burning red instead of yellow?



i realize it is a basic question but sometimes the simplest and most

obvious is overlooked.





--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Luca" astrovale@...> wrote:

>

> Hello Chris, Steve and Dave and thank you all for your help. Alas

nothing seems to fix my "baby"! Speaking on the phone with the

Italian technical assistant for the AP distributor, we went through a

series of checks (time, location and all the routine tests that could

be done on the phone) but they were all negative. So there must be

something wrong, but we don't know what yet. Maybe the controller

chip got fried but who knows how! I am 100% sure the mount was

unplugged during the storms, so what could it be?

> Even a STATUS request gives me an "all systems go" reply, so I

don't get it!!

>

> However to reply to your questions:

>

> CHRIS

> I will sure try to unplug and re-connect the hand controller.

Thanks for your reply.

> STEVE

> I will also try Pulseguide to see if I can get to know something

more. Thanks.

> DAVE

> Following your order:

> 1) No. It is impossible because my mount is always assembled so all

I do when I get in the observatory is plug in and turn on. It is also

quite difficult to move the button by mistake (hitting it or similar)

so I would rule out this option. But I'll sure double check.

> 2) I have not checked my power supply after the storms, but the

rest of my equipment (pc and de-humidifier) works fine and they are

all connected to the same power supply. Is there a particular power

requirement that the mount has and the other equipment doesn't?

> 3) How does one check his power supply? I wouldn't know where to

start! I'm quite useless in these things.

> 4) I have never used the autoguider yet (no DSO for the time being:

concentrating on the solar system).

>

> Ciao all

>

> Luca

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: mogulskier_groups

> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:28 AM

> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?

>

>

> 1) Is it possible that you change the N/S switch when you were

> plugging it back in on the 13th? I did this once.

>

> 2) Make sure that your DC power supply is up to full power before

> turning it on.

>

> 3) Check your power supply. It may have gotten fried during the

> storms

>

> 4) Sometimes I get this kind of weird behavior when I leave my

> autoguider on between targets. Doesn't sound like this is your

> problem, but it is somethign to rule out.

>

> let us know what it was.

>

> Dave

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Reilly" sreilly@> wrote:

> >

> > You may also want to disconnect the hand controller and use

Ray's

> PulseGuide

> > program to see if the problems are consistent.

> >

> > Steve

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On

> Behalf Of

> > Christopher Go

> > Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 9:54 PM

> > To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?

> >

> > Hi Gianluca,

> >

> > You might want to check your hand controller cable. Just unplug

in

> > and plug it again. I had some problems with my AP900GTO lately

and

> it

> > seems that my hand controller cable rubber got frayed maybe

because

> > of the heat and low humidity. My mount is still working now and

I

> > plan to get new cables this Oct.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Chris

> >

> >

> > At 02:25 AM 8/14/2006 +0200, you wrote:

> > >Hello,

> > >

> > >my name is Gianluca Valentini and I write from Italy. I

apologize

> > >for the long message, but I would like to know if anyone can

help

> me

> > >understand and maybe fix my problem.

> > >

> > >My 1200 is permanently mounted in my observatory which is kept

at

> > >35% humidity when not operating.

> > >On Aug 10th I had a normal imaging session: plugged in the

mount,

> > >turned it on, resume from park pos. 3 (my usual) and pointed

the

> > >sun, centered the sun and used the re-cal function. Everything

> > >normal after that, including my usual parking in pos. 3 and

> > >unplugging of the mount (there were thunderstorms coming).

> > >

> > >Today, Aug. 13th, I went back, plugged it in, powered on, but

> > >(1) the mount failed a goto command to the sun. I stopped it

as

> soon

> > >as I realized it was off, pointed at the sun and synced it.

But

> the

> > >mount was still "lost": it could not find any of the 3 parking

> > >positions, ending up in improbable positions. I must have

turned

> off

> > >and re-started the mount 5 or 6 times before giving up. This

had

> > >happened to me before, but, unlike this time, it was always

solved

> > >by the sync function.

> > >

> > >But I was in for another surprise!

> > >(2) The mount was also not tracking in RA and this is an

absolute

> > >first time for me. I can't understand what could have caused

it.

> > >Nobody has access to my observatory and it was tracking

perfectly

> as

> > >usual 3 days ago!

> > >I made this test: if the mount had not been tracking at all in

RA,

> > >then, with slewing speed set to 1, if I acted on the E

direction

> > >button the image should stay still (or almost). But keeping

the

> > >button pressed would over-correct the tracking problem, so I'm

> totally

> > lost!

> > >

> > >Some more info:

> > >a) I always park and unplug my mount at the end of every

session;

> > >b) the time and location data are correct to the second;

> > >c) the mount is very well polar aligned (drift alignment);

> > >d) nobody has accessed the observatory from the 10th (normal

> > >functioning) to the 13th (faulty functioning);

> > >e) I am 100% sure the mount was unplugged on the 10th (and

hence

> > >during the storms that came after), because I had to plug it

in

> > >today and I remember that very well.

> > >

> > >Thanks for any advice you can give me.

> > >

> > >Ciao

> > >Gianluca

> > >

> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> > >see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

> > >Yahoo! Groups Links

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Christopher and Vicky Go

> > Christone Industries

> > Manufacturer and Exporter of Quality Fossil Stone and Wrought

Iron

> Furniture

> > Cebu, Philippines

> > www.christone.net

> > astropage: astro.cstoneind.com

> >

> >

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>







----------------------------

#15629 Aug 14, 2006

Hi Luca,

what is the number of the GTO - box CP2 or CP3?



Guido

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Luca" astrovale@...> wrote:

>

> Hello,

>

> my name is Gianluca Valentini and I write from Italy. I apologize

for the long message, but I would like to know if anyone can help me

understand and maybe fix my problem.

>

> My 1200 is permanently mounted in my observatory which is kept at

35% humidity when not operating.

> On Aug 10th I had a normal imaging session: plugged in the mount,

turned it on, resume from park pos. 3 (my usual) and pointed the

sun, centered the sun and used the re-cal function. Everything

normal after that, including my usual parking in pos. 3 and

unplugging of the mount (there were thunderstorms coming).

>

> Today, Aug. 13th, I went back, plugged it in, powered on, but

> (1) the mount failed a goto command to the sun. I stopped it as

soon as I realized it was off, pointed at the sun and synced it. But

the mount was still "lost": it could not find any of the 3 parking

positions, ending up in improbable positions. I must have turned off

and re-started the mount 5 or 6 times before giving up. This had

happened to me before, but, unlike this time, it was always solved

by the sync function.

>

> But I was in for another surprise!

> (2) The mount was also not tracking in RA and this is an absolute

first time for me. I can't understand what could have caused it.

Nobody has access to my observatory and it was tracking perfectly as

usual 3 days ago!

> I made this test: if the mount had not been tracking at all in RA,

then, with slewing speed set to 1, if I acted on the E direction

button the image should stay still (or almost). But keeping the

button pressed would over-correct the tracking problem, so I'm

totally lost!

>

> Some more info:

> a) I always park and unplug my mount at the end of every session;

> b) the time and location data are correct to the second;

> c) the mount is very well polar aligned (drift alignment);

> d) nobody has accessed the observatory from the 10th (normal

functioning) to the 13th (faulty functioning);

> e) I am 100% sure the mount was unplugged on the 10th (and hence

during the storms that came after), because I had to plug it in

today and I remember that very well.

>

> Thanks for any advice you can give me.

>

> Ciao

> Gianluca

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



----------------------------

#15632 Aug 14, 2006

Hello Guido,



it is a CP3 a little more than a year old.



Ciao and thanks for trying to help.

Luca ----- Original Message -----

From: guidoretiig

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:42 PM

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?





Hi Luca,

what is the number of the GTO - box CP2 or CP3?



Guido



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Luca" astrovale@...> wrote:

>

> Hello,

>

> my name is Gianluca Valentini and I write from Italy. I apologize

for the long message, but I would like to know if anyone can help me

understand and maybe fix my problem.

>

> My 1200 is permanently mounted in my observatory which is kept at

35% humidity when not operating.

> On Aug 10th I had a normal imaging session: plugged in the mount,

turned it on, resume from park pos. 3 (my usual) and pointed the

sun, centered the sun and used the re-cal function. Everything

normal after that, including my usual parking in pos. 3 and

unplugging of the mount (there were thunderstorms coming).

>

> Today, Aug. 13th, I went back, plugged it in, powered on, but

> (1) the mount failed a goto command to the sun. I stopped it as

soon as I realized it was off, pointed at the sun and synced it. But

the mount was still "lost": it could not find any of the 3 parking

positions, ending up in improbable positions. I must have turned off

and re-started the mount 5 or 6 times before giving up. This had

happened to me before, but, unlike this time, it was always solved

by the sync function.

>

> But I was in for another surprise!

> (2) The mount was also not tracking in RA and this is an absolute

first time for me. I can't understand what could have caused it.

Nobody has access to my observatory and it was tracking perfectly as

usual 3 days ago!

> I made this test: if the mount had not been tracking at all in RA,

then, with slewing speed set to 1, if I acted on the E direction

button the image should stay still (or almost). But keeping the

button pressed would over-correct the tracking problem, so I'm

totally lost!

>

> Some more info:

> a) I always park and unplug my mount at the end of every session;

> b) the time and location data are correct to the second;

> c) the mount is very well polar aligned (drift alignment);

> d) nobody has accessed the observatory from the 10th (normal

functioning) to the 13th (faulty functioning);

> e) I am 100% sure the mount was unplugged on the 10th (and hence

during the storms that came after), because I had to plug it in

today and I remember that very well.

>

> Thanks for any advice you can give me.

>

> Ciao

> Gianluca

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#15633 Aug 14, 2006

I will verify that too Richard.



Ciao

Luca ----- Original Message -----

From: Richard Crisp

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:22 PM

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?





maybe the mount is not receiving full operating voltage?



If I have a high resistance connection to my battery mine will behave

erratically



when I deliver proper voltage to it, the problem stops.



Sometimes the DC connector that connects to the control box has some

play and that contributes to the problem



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Luca" astrovale@...> wrote:

>

> Hello,

>

> my name is Gianluca Valentini and I write from Italy. I apologize

for the long message, but I would like to know if anyone can help me

understand and maybe fix my problem.

>

> My 1200 is permanently mounted in my observatory which is kept at

35% humidity when not operating.

> On Aug 10th I had a normal imaging session: plugged in the mount,

turned it on, resume from park pos. 3 (my usual) and pointed the sun,

centered the sun and used the re-cal function. Everything normal

after that, including my usual parking in pos. 3 and unplugging of

the mount (there were thunderstorms coming).

>

> Today, Aug. 13th, I went back, plugged it in, powered on, but

> (1) the mount failed a goto command to the sun. I stopped it as

soon as I realized it was off, pointed at the sun and synced it. But

the mount was still "lost": it could not find any of the 3 parking

positions, ending up in improbable positions. I must have turned off

and re-started the mount 5 or 6 times before giving up. This had

happened to me before, but, unlike this time, it was always solved by

the sync function.

>

> But I was in for another surprise!

> (2) The mount was also not tracking in RA and this is an absolute

first time for me. I can't understand what could have caused it.

Nobody has access to my observatory and it was tracking perfectly as

usual 3 days ago!

> I made this test: if the mount had not been tracking at all in RA,

then, with slewing speed set to 1, if I acted on the E direction

button the image should stay still (or almost). But keeping the

button pressed would over-correct the tracking problem, so I'm

totally lost!

>

> Some more info:

> a) I always park and unplug my mount at the end of every session;

> b) the time and location data are correct to the second;

> c) the mount is very well polar aligned (drift alignment);

> d) nobody has accessed the observatory from the 10th (normal

functioning) to the 13th (faulty functioning);

> e) I am 100% sure the mount was unplugged on the 10th (and hence

during the storms that came after), because I had to plug it in today

and I remember that very well.

>

> Thanks for any advice you can give me.

>

> Ciao

> Gianluca

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#15634 Aug 14, 2006

Hello Richard,



yes I checked and the the light is red.

I truly appreciate your help. Thanks.



Luca ----- Original Message -----

From: Richard Crisp

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:24 PM

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?





did you verify the 'red' power light is burning red instead of yellow?



i realize it is a basic question but sometimes the simplest and most

obvious is overlooked.



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Luca" astrovale@...> wrote:

>

> Hello Chris, Steve and Dave and thank you all for your help. Alas

nothing seems to fix my "baby"! Speaking on the phone with the

Italian technical assistant for the AP distributor, we went through a

series of checks (time, location and all the routine tests that could

be done on the phone) but they were all negative. So there must be

something wrong, but we don't know what yet. Maybe the controller

chip got fried but who knows how! I am 100% sure the mount was

unplugged during the storms, so what could it be?

> Even a STATUS request gives me an "all systems go" reply, so I

don't get it!!

>

> However to reply to your questions:

>

> CHRIS

> I will sure try to unplug and re-connect the hand controller.

Thanks for your reply.

> STEVE

> I will also try Pulseguide to see if I can get to know something

more. Thanks.

> DAVE

> Following your order:

> 1) No. It is impossible because my mount is always assembled so all

I do when I get in the observatory is plug in and turn on. It is also

quite difficult to move the button by mistake (hitting it or similar)

so I would rule out this option. But I'll sure double check.

> 2) I have not checked my power supply after the storms, but the

rest of my equipment (pc and de-humidifier) works fine and they are

all connected to the same power supply. Is there a particular power

requirement that the mount has and the other equipment doesn't?

> 3) How does one check his power supply? I wouldn't know where to

start! I'm quite useless in these things.

> 4) I have never used the autoguider yet (no DSO for the time being:

concentrating on the solar system).

>

> Ciao all

>

> Luca

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: mogulskier_groups

> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:28 AM

> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?

>

>

> 1) Is it possible that you change the N/S switch when you were

> plugging it back in on the 13th? I did this once.

>

> 2) Make sure that your DC power supply is up to full power before

> turning it on.

>

> 3) Check your power supply. It may have gotten fried during the

> storms

>

> 4) Sometimes I get this kind of weird behavior when I leave my

> autoguider on between targets. Doesn't sound like this is your

> problem, but it is somethign to rule out.

>

> let us know what it was.

>

> Dave

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Reilly" sreilly@> wrote:

> >

> > You may also want to disconnect the hand controller and use

Ray's

> PulseGuide

> > program to see if the problems are consistent.

> >

> > Steve

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On

> Behalf Of

> > Christopher Go

> > Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 9:54 PM

> > To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?

> >

> > Hi Gianluca,

> >

> > You might want to check your hand controller cable. Just unplug

in

> > and plug it again. I had some problems with my AP900GTO lately

and

> it

> > seems that my hand controller cable rubber got frayed maybe

because

> > of the heat and low humidity. My mount is still working now and

I

> > plan to get new cables this Oct.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Chris

> >

> >

> > At 02:25 AM 8/14/2006 +0200, you wrote:

> > >Hello,

> > >

> > >my name is Gianluca Valentini and I write from Italy. I

apologize

> > >for the long message, but I would like to know if anyone can

help

> me

> > >understand and maybe fix my problem.

> > >

> > >My 1200 is permanently mounted in my observatory which is kept

at

> > >35% humidity when not operating.

> > >On Aug 10th I had a normal imaging session: plugged in the

mount,

> > >turned it on, resume from park pos. 3 (my usual) and pointed

the

> > >sun, centered the sun and used the re-cal function. Everything

> > >normal after that, including my usual parking in pos. 3 and

> > >unplugging of the mount (there were thunderstorms coming).

> > >

> > >Today, Aug. 13th, I went back, plugged it in, powered on, but

> > >(1) the mount failed a goto command to the sun. I stopped it

as

> soon

> > >as I realized it was off, pointed at the sun and synced it.

But

> the

> > >mount was still "lost": it could not find any of the 3 parking

> > >positions, ending up in improbable positions. I must have

turned

> off

> > >and re-started the mount 5 or 6 times before giving up. This

had

> > >happened to me before, but, unlike this time, it was always

solved

> > >by the sync function.

> > >

> > >But I was in for another surprise!

> > >(2) The mount was also not tracking in RA and this is an

absolute

> > >first time for me. I can't understand what could have caused

it.

> > >Nobody has access to my observatory and it was tracking

perfectly

> as

> > >usual 3 days ago!

> > >I made this test: if the mount had not been tracking at all in

RA,

> > >then, with slewing speed set to 1, if I acted on the E

direction

> > >button the image should stay still (or almost). But keeping

the

> > >button pressed would over-correct the tracking problem, so I'm

> totally

> > lost!

> > >

> > >Some more info:

> > >a) I always park and unplug my mount at the end of every

session;

> > >b) the time and location data are correct to the second;

> > >c) the mount is very well polar aligned (drift alignment);

> > >d) nobody has accessed the observatory from the 10th (normal

> > >functioning) to the 13th (faulty functioning);

> > >e) I am 100% sure the mount was unplugged on the 10th (and

hence

> > >during the storms that came after), because I had to plug it

in

> > >today and I remember that very well.

> > >

> > >Thanks for any advice you can give me.

> > >

> > >Ciao

> > >Gianluca

> > >

> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> > >see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

> > >Yahoo! Groups Links

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Christopher and Vicky Go

> > Christone Industries

> > Manufacturer and Exporter of Quality Fossil Stone and Wrought

Iron

> Furniture

> > Cebu, Philippines

> > www.christone.net

> > astropage: astro.cstoneind.com

> >

> >

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> > see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#15637 Aug 14, 2006

Guido, sorry to be tardy.



I also had a problem last Saturday night with my 1999 fully updated AP1200.

It would find the first star but went some place completely wrong on the

second star. It was almost like the N/S switch had been thrown. All three

Park positions were wrong too. Did we have a Solar Storm over the weekend?



To solve the Park problem I loosened all the RA & DEC Clutches enough to

move the mount by hand. I then issued the Park-3 command and kept returning

the mount near where it should be by hand. After it completed the Park

command I powered off and fine tuned the mount position to my marks. After

powering up and going to both the first star and Sync'ing I went to the

second star successfully. Parking in position #3 completed without trouble.



I hope this helps you a little and maybe even your other problems go away

too...joe :)





"May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars"



Joe Mize

StarFields Observatory www.cav-sfo.com/

Chiefland, FL 29:24'33.4"N 82:51'37.7"W



-----Original Message-----

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of

Luca

Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 6:56 PM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?



Hello Guido,



it is a CP3 a little more than a year old.



Ciao and thanks for trying to help.

Luca ----- Original Message -----

From: guidoretiig

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:42 PM

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?





Hi Luca,

what is the number of the GTO - box CP2 or CP3?



Guido



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Luca" astrovale@...> wrote:

>

> Hello,

>

> my name is Gianluca Valentini and I write from Italy. I apologize

for the long message, but I would like to know if anyone can help me

understand and maybe fix my problem.

>

> My 1200 is permanently mounted in my observatory which is kept at

35% humidity when not operating.

> On Aug 10th I had a normal imaging session: plugged in the mount,

turned it on, resume from park pos. 3 (my usual) and pointed the

sun, centered the sun and used the re-cal function. Everything

normal after that, including my usual parking in pos. 3 and

unplugging of the mount (there were thunderstorms coming).

>

> Today, Aug. 13th, I went back, plugged it in, powered on, but

> (1) the mount failed a goto command to the sun. I stopped it as

soon as I realized it was off, pointed at the sun and synced it. But

the mount was still "lost": it could not find any of the 3 parking

positions, ending up in improbable positions. I must have turned off

and re-started the mount 5 or 6 times before giving up. This had

happened to me before, but, unlike this time, it was always solved

by the sync function.

>

> But I was in for another surprise!

> (2) The mount was also not tracking in RA and this is an absolute

first time for me. I can't understand what could have caused it.

Nobody has access to my observatory and it was tracking perfectly as

usual 3 days ago!

> I made this test: if the mount had not been tracking at all in RA,

then, with slewing speed set to 1, if I acted on the E direction

button the image should stay still (or almost). But keeping the

button pressed would over-correct the tracking problem, so I'm

totally lost!

>

> Some more info:

> a) I always park and unplug my mount at the end of every session;

> b) the time and location data are correct to the second;

> c) the mount is very well polar aligned (drift alignment);

> d) nobody has accessed the observatory from the 10th (normal

functioning) to the 13th (faulty functioning);

> e) I am 100% sure the mount was unplugged on the 10th (and hence

during the storms that came after), because I had to plug it in

today and I remember that very well.

>

> Thanks for any advice you can give me.

>

> Ciao

> Gianluca

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

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----------------------------

#15638 Aug 15, 2006

Hi Luca,

I do have the CP2 and had the problem of an erratic behaviour of the

mount. It was caused by a hardware problem of the GTO - box, which

was solved by a perfect service of AP. BTW: after repair I run the

equipment by a stabilized 20 amps (yes!! 20) power supply. Up to

now: no more problems.



Best regards

Guido



www.luluobservatorium.de







--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Luca" astrovale@...> wrote:

>

> Hello Guido,

>

> it is a CP3 a little more than a year old.

>

> Ciao and thanks for trying to help.

> Luca

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: guidoretiig

> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:42 PM

> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?

>

>

> Hi Luca,

> what is the number of the GTO - box CP2 or CP3?

>

> Guido

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Luca" astrovale@> wrote:

> >

> > Hello,

> >

> > my name is Gianluca Valentini and I write from Italy. I

apologize

> for the long message, but I would like to know if anyone can

help me

> understand and maybe fix my problem.

> >

> > My 1200 is permanently mounted in my observatory which is kept

at

> 35% humidity when not operating.

> > On Aug 10th I had a normal imaging session: plugged in the

mount,

> turned it on, resume from park pos. 3 (my usual) and pointed the

> sun, centered the sun and used the re-cal function. Everything

> normal after that, including my usual parking in pos. 3 and

> unplugging of the mount (there were thunderstorms coming).

> >

> > Today, Aug. 13th, I went back, plugged it in, powered on, but

> > (1) the mount failed a goto command to the sun. I stopped it

as

> soon as I realized it was off, pointed at the sun and synced it.

But

> the mount was still "lost": it could not find any of the 3

parking

> positions, ending up in improbable positions. I must have turned

off

> and re-started the mount 5 or 6 times before giving up. This had

> happened to me before, but, unlike this time, it was always

solved

> by the sync function.

> >

> > But I was in for another surprise!

> > (2) The mount was also not tracking in RA and this is an

absolute

> first time for me. I can't understand what could have caused it.

> Nobody has access to my observatory and it was tracking

perfectly as

> usual 3 days ago!

> > I made this test: if the mount had not been tracking at all in

RA,

> then, with slewing speed set to 1, if I acted on the E direction

> button the image should stay still (or almost). But keeping the

> button pressed would over-correct the tracking problem, so I'm

> totally lost!

> >

> > Some more info:

> > a) I always park and unplug my mount at the end of every

session;

> > b) the time and location data are correct to the second;

> > c) the mount is very well polar aligned (drift alignment);

> > d) nobody has accessed the observatory from the 10th (normal

> functioning) to the 13th (faulty functioning);

> > e) I am 100% sure the mount was unplugged on the 10th (and

hence

> during the storms that came after), because I had to plug it in

> today and I remember that very well.

> >

> > Thanks for any advice you can give me.

> >

> > Ciao

> > Gianluca

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>







----------------------------

#15651 Aug 17, 2006

If you want to know whether the mount RA motor is turning, simply remove the

motor gearbox cover and look at the motor shaft. If it is turning slowly, then

it is probably going at the sidereal rate. You can also see the shaft speed

up and reverse if you put the keypad in 12x mode and press the E-W buttons. If

the motor is not turning when the buttons are not depressed, then it is

possible that you have the keypad set to no tracking (Button #8 = Stop). If so, set

the tracking to sidereal (Button #8 = SID).



If the motor is turning, next thing to check is whether the clutches are

loose or tight. If they are loose, then the mount may not track the stars even if

the RA motor is indeed turning properly.



Whenever something strange like this happens, it is best not to panic and

jump to conclusions about the keypad or servo or mount having failed. It is best

to begin a logical examination of the functions of the mount from the motor

shaft onward. The way the system works is that the servo controls the motors and

the keypad sends simple software commands which modifies the servo

conditions. The keypad itself does not control the motor rotation. It only sends these

software commands to the servo which then causes the motors to turn for

tracking, centering or high speed GoTo. All these software commands can also be sent

to the servo via any laptop computer using PulseGuide or other suitable

software. Therefore, you can separate (disconnect) the keypad from the mount and

still have all the same functions. By that logic, the keypad has no effect

whatsoever on the mechanical or electrical functioning of the servo drive or motors.

Therefore, if the motors fail to function in any way, it will not be because

of a keypad malfunction. It is either the motor itself (you can substitute the

Dec motor for the RA to prove or disprove that), or the servodrive, or the

wires between the servodrive and motors.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#15669 Aug 18, 2006

In a message dated 8/18/2006 7:11:28 AM Central Daylight Time,

astrovale@... writes:



> However, you say that the instructions are sent to the servo by the keypad:

> couldn't it be that the software inside the keypad has been somehow

> corrupted and is sending a series of incorrect instructions to the servo and thence

> to the motors? My uneducated opinion is that the key to understanding where

> the problem resides is the fact that the mount did not only stop tracking (or,

> if I'm right, began tracking at the wrong speed), but also cannot "find

> itself" (wrong park positions, and misplacing of objects as big as the sun)

> although the time and the location are correct and very accurate!



Tracking and parking are two entirely different things. Tracking is a

function of the servo microcomputer. The motors are commanded to turn at precisely

the sidereal rate. If they do not turn at this rate, then something bad has

happened to the servo itself. The fact that your motors will slew and turn means

that the motors are operating ok and will be capable of tracking at the

sidereal rate.



After reading your symptoms again, it is possible that your keypad is set to

"Stop" instead of "Sidereal". If you are in "Stop" mode and you press the E-W

buttons at 1x, the star will drift twice as fast with one of the buttons and

stop moving with the opposite button. This should make sense to you because in

"Stop" mode, the mount is not moving, and the stars are moving at the sidereal

rate.



As far as not finding objects, this is most likely a database problem in the

keypad itself. You can quickly determine if the mount servo is ok by simply

using a program such as Pulse Guide on your laptop to initialize the servo. Then

use a planetarium program to find objects in the sky. This will tell you that

the servo is working properly or not. You can also set the tracking rate to

sidereal and see if the motors are turning at the proper rate. You can do all

this in the daytime in your house if need be.



The keypad software can become corrupted because the data is stored in

sequence in the memory, and if one set of coordinates is missing, all remaining sets

will shift over one spot. Once the internal data is corrupted, then all

objects that you try to GoTo will be wrong. Therefore if you try to go to M51, it

may send the mount to M52, etc. Since the Park positions are determined from

your initial Sync of a known object (whose RA and DEC coordinates have been

scrambled), then all 3 of those positions will also be wrong. You can determine

this by bringing up a known object and seeing what the RA and DEC numbers are on

the keypad screen. If they don't make sense, then the data is scrambled.



Corruption of the keypad data can occur one of two ways:

1) the keypad has been dropped or set down hard on its back. This momentarily

dislodges the internal battery which causes the memory to fail.

2) the internal battery is weak or losing voltage due to age. Normally the

battery will last 5 years or more, but could possibly fail sooner. The fix here

would be to install a new battery.



To fix the corrupted database, you can do it from our website. Please contact

support@... and they can tell you how to restore your keypad to

working order.



The key here is that you must determine where the problem is located - keypad

or servo. So far I cannot determine this for you by the clues that you have

sent. However, try the things that I mention above to help you to locate the

problem area. Once you do that, you will be in a better position to persue the

solution.



Roland Christen











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#15672 Aug 18, 2006

If you find that the keypad is corrupted, then you can follow the

instructions on our website to restore it to working order:



www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?tech_support/mounts/keypad_update/datal

oad201/dataload201



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#15688 Aug 19, 2006

Hi Luca,

> Today I tried to control the mount with Pulseguide (PG): here

> are the problems I encountered.

> 1) When I initialize the mount with the pc on should I do so

> with the keypad connected or disconnected? The manual doesn't

> say anything about it.



It doesn't matter if the keypad is connected or not.

> 2) when I asked PG to get the location data from the mount it

> only received the Lat data and placed three zeros instead of

> the Long data.

> I checked the keypad and the location was

> correctly set. I then wrote the Long data and clicked the

> send to mount option. After that I canceled the data and

> asked again to get them from the mount: same thing, i.e. it

> received only the Lat.



Try this:



1) On PulseGuide's Connect page, press "Connect"

2) After a few seconds check the option "Disable RA/Dec, Alt/Az"

3) Press the "Log Window" Button, and move the log window next to

PulseGuide's main window so that you can see both.

4) Click on the "Site" tab.

5) Try clicking "Get from Mount" and not if any timeouts occur in the

log window.

6) If there are no timeouts but the longitude is still wrong, enter

your correct longitude and press "Send to Mount".

7) If there are no timeouts then try "Get from mount" again. Is the

longitude now correct?



-Ray Gralak



----------------------------

#15692 Aug 19, 2006

Hello Ray and thanks for the reply. I shall try what you suggest and let you know.



Ciao

Luca

----- Original Message -----

From: Ray Gralak

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 4:17 PM

Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?





Hi Luca,



> Today I tried to control the mount with Pulseguide (PG): here

> are the problems I encountered.

> 1) When I initialize the mount with the pc on should I do so

> with the keypad connected or disconnected? The manual doesn't

> say anything about it.



It doesn't matter if the keypad is connected or not.



> 2) when I asked PG to get the location data from the mount it

> only received the Lat data and placed three zeros instead of

> the Long data.

> I checked the keypad and the location was

> correctly set. I then wrote the Long data and clicked the

> send to mount option. After that I canceled the data and

> asked again to get them from the mount: same thing, i.e. it

> received only the Lat.



Try this:



1) On PulseGuide's Connect page, press "Connect"

2) After a few seconds check the option "Disable RA/Dec, Alt/Az"

3) Press the "Log Window" Button, and move the log window next to

PulseGuide's main window so that you can see both.

4) Click on the "Site" tab.

5) Try clicking "Get from Mount" and not if any timeouts occur in the

log window.

6) If there are no timeouts but the longitude is still wrong, enter

your correct longitude and press "Send to Mount".

7) If there are no timeouts then try "Get from mount" again. Is the

longitude now correct?



-Ray Gralak











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#15693 Aug 19, 2006

In a message dated 8/18/2006 7:04:49 PM Central Daylight Time,

astrovale@... writes:



> 2) when I asked PG to get the location data from the mount it only received

> the Lat data and placed three zeros instead of the Long data. I checked the

> keypad and the location was correctly set. I then wrote the Long data and

> clicked the send to mount option. After that I canceled the data and asked again

> to get them from the mount: same thing, i.e. it received only the Lat.

>



If that is the case, then there is a problem with one of the microchips in

the servo drive. You will need to try your replacement servo from your dealer.

If it clears up the problem, then we can certainly fix the servo here.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#15695 Aug 19, 2006

Thank you Roland. On monday the replacement should be on its way here and, after trying it, we'll see what to do.



Ciao

Luca



----- Original Message -----

From: chris1011@...

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 5:34 PM

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?





In a message dated 8/18/2006 7:04:49 PM Central Daylight Time,

astrovale@... writes:



> 2) when I asked PG to get the location data from the mount it only received

> the Lat data and placed three zeros instead of the Long data. I checked the

> keypad and the location was correctly set. I then wrote the Long data and

> clicked the send to mount option. After that I canceled the data and asked again

> to get them from the mount: same thing, i.e. it received only the Lat.

>



If that is the case, then there is a problem with one of the microchips in

the servo drive. You will need to try your replacement servo from your dealer.

If it clears up the problem, then we can certainly fix the servo here.



Roland Christen



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#15708 Aug 21, 2006

Ciao Luca, mi chiamo Max, ho appena ricevuto una 900 cp3 e mentre

facevo le prime prove di collegamento ho avuto lo stesso problema con

PG: mi risultavano tutti 0 nella long anche se nel tastierino era

tutto OK. La mia e' stata imballata nel magazzino fino a venerdi',

quindi non credo che possa aver avuto problemi con i temporali...

Oggi pomeriggio faccio altre prove con il metodo di Ray e ti so' dire.

Ciao

Max

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Luca" astrovale@...> wrote:

>

> Thank you Roland. On monday the replacement should be on its way

here and, after trying it, we'll see what to do.

>

> Ciao

> Luca

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: chris1011@...

> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 5:34 PM

> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?

>

>

> In a message dated 8/18/2006 7:04:49 PM Central Daylight Time,

> astrovale@... writes:

>

> > 2) when I asked PG to get the location data from the mount it

only received

> > the Lat data and placed three zeros instead of the Long data. I

checked the

> > keypad and the location was correctly set. I then wrote the

Long data and

> > clicked the send to mount option. After that I canceled the

data and asked again

> > to get them from the mount: same thing, i.e. it received only

the Lat.

> >

>

> If that is the case, then there is a problem with one of the

microchips in

> the servo drive. You will need to try your replacement servo from

your dealer.

> If it clears up the problem, then we can certainly fix the servo

here.

>

> Roland Christen

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



----------------------------

#15709 Aug 21, 2006

Provato con il metodo di Ray ed e' tutto Ok.

Ci sono diversi delays in ogni caso (non so' se ti possa essere utile)

Ciao

Max



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Massimiliano Baravelli" maxbara@...>

wrote: >

> Ciao Luca, mi chiamo Max, ho appena ricevuto una 900 cp3 e mentre

> facevo le prime prove di collegamento ho avuto lo stesso problema

con > PG: mi risultavano tutti 0 nella long anche se nel tastierino era

> tutto OK. La mia e' stata imballata nel magazzino fino a venerdi',

> quindi non credo che possa aver avuto problemi con i temporali...

> Oggi pomeriggio faccio altre prove con il metodo di Ray e ti so'

dire. > Ciao

> Max

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Luca" astrovale@> wrote:

> >

> > Thank you Roland. On monday the replacement should be on its way

> here and, after trying it, we'll see what to do.

> >

> > Ciao

> > Luca

> >

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: chris1011@

> > To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> > Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 5:34 PM

> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 8/18/2006 7:04:49 PM Central Daylight Time,

> > astrovale@ writes:

> >

> > > 2) when I asked PG to get the location data from the mount it

> only received

> > > the Lat data and placed three zeros instead of the Long data.

I > checked the

> > > keypad and the location was correctly set. I then wrote the

> Long data and

> > > clicked the send to mount option. After that I canceled the

> data and asked again

> > > to get them from the mount: same thing, i.e. it received only

> the Lat.

> > >

> >

> > If that is the case, then there is a problem with one of the

> microchips in

> > the servo drive. You will need to try your replacement servo

from > your dealer.

> > If it clears up the problem, then we can certainly fix the

servo > here.

> >

> > Roland Christen

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>



----------------------------

#15710 Aug 22, 2006

Ciao Massimiliano e benvenuto nell' Italian AP club!



grazie per il feedback sul tuo test: oggi ho una serie di tests da fare e la tua informazione mi sar. molto utile.



Ciao Massimiliano



Luca ----- Original Message -----

From: Massimiliano Baravelli

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 5:56 PM

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?





Provato con il metodo di Ray ed e' tutto Ok.

Ci sono diversi delays in ogni caso (non so' se ti possa essere utile)

Ciao

Max



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Massimiliano Baravelli" maxbara@...>

wrote:

>

> Ciao Luca, mi chiamo Max, ho appena ricevuto una 900 cp3 e mentre

> facevo le prime prove di collegamento ho avuto lo stesso problema

con

> PG: mi risultavano tutti 0 nella long anche se nel tastierino era

> tutto OK. La mia e' stata imballata nel magazzino fino a venerdi',

> quindi non credo che possa aver avuto problemi con i temporali...

> Oggi pomeriggio faccio altre prove con il metodo di Ray e ti so'

dire.

> Ciao

> Max

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Luca" astrovale@> wrote:

> >

> > Thank you Roland. On monday the replacement should be on its way

> here and, after trying it, we'll see what to do.

> >

> > Ciao

> > Luca

> >

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: chris1011@

> > To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

> > Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 5:34 PM

> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 8/18/2006 7:04:49 PM Central Daylight Time,

> > astrovale@ writes:

> >

> > > 2) when I asked PG to get the location data from the mount it

> only received

> > > the Lat data and placed three zeros instead of the Long data.

I

> checked the

> > > keypad and the location was correctly set. I then wrote the

> Long data and

> > > clicked the send to mount option. After that I canceled the

> data and asked again

> > > to get them from the mount: same thing, i.e. it received only

> the Lat.

> > >

> >

> > If that is the case, then there is a problem with one of the

> microchips in

> > the servo drive. You will need to try your replacement servo

from

> your dealer.

> > If it clears up the problem, then we can certainly fix the

servo

> here.

> >

> > Roland Christen

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#15719 Aug 23, 2006

Hello all,



I just wanted to update the group on the developments of my problem.



I received a replacement control box (GTOCP2) from Unitron Italia, the national distributor for AP products. I replaced mine with the newly arrived and, after a synch on the sun, all went back to usual flawless performance (finding, tracking and parking).

I guess we'll have to wait for my control box to get to AP, before we know what actually happened to it.



Thanks to all that replied to my message with info and advice.



Ciao

Luca

----- Original Message -----

From: chris1011@...

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 5:34 PM

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?





In a message dated 8/18/2006 7:04:49 PM Central Daylight Time,

astrovale@... writes:



> 2) when I asked PG to get the location data from the mount it only received

> the Lat data and placed three zeros instead of the Long data. I checked the

> keypad and the location was correctly set. I then wrote the Long data and

> clicked the send to mount option. After that I canceled the data and asked again

> to get them from the mount: same thing, i.e. it received only the Lat.

>



If that is the case, then there is a problem with one of the microchips in

the servo drive. You will need to try your replacement servo from your dealer.

If it clears up the problem, then we can certainly fix the servo here.



Roland Christen



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#15720 Aug 23, 2006

In a message dated 8/23/2006 1:51:58 PM Central Daylight Time,

astrovale@... writes:



> I received a replacement control box (GTOCP2) from Unitron Italia, the

> national distributor for AP products. I replaced mine with the newly arrived and,

> after a synch on the sun, all went back to usual flawless performance

> (finding, tracking and parking).

> I guess we'll have to wait for my control box to get to AP, before we know

> what actually happened to it.

>



We are pretty sure that the G chip is the problem, not something like

lightning. The G chip has a well known bug as Marj pointed out and eventually it will

cause the internal memory to be rewritten which changes the mount profile,

and causes tracking, GoTo, and Park problems.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#15725 Aug 23, 2006

We'll take care of it quickly once we receive it. I am pleased that you have a loaner to use in the meantime. Have fun!





Marj Christen

Astro-Physics, Inc

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

Fax: 815-282-9847

www.astro-physics.com

Please include this e-mail with your response.



-----Original Message-----

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Luca

Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:38 PM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?







Hello Marj and thanks for your kind reply.

Plinio had informed that I had to return the control box to AP, although he did not tell me why. Unfortunately, now I can't ship my control box because Unitron will be closed for holidays until Sept 4th and then I know that the procedures for temporary export are quite complicated. So I hope you will receive it by mid September. However, they have already provided a replacement control box (see my post "My trusted 1200 is....."), so I can at least operate the mount. This does not relieve you from your commitment to return it as quickly as possible ;-))))))



In any case, knowing the reason, makes me feel a little better, because at least I know it wasn't my fault. I'm only a bit disappointed because, after reading your post, I thought that, by simply replacing the chip, I would have avoided all this! But I got another control box, so all's well that ends well!



Thanks again for your assistance.



Ciao Marj

Luca

----- Original Message -----

From: Marj

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups. mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> com

Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 5:18 PM

Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?



Dear Luca,

I have discussed your problem with Plinio from Unitron Italia. He advised me that your control box has a G chip installed. I believe that your problems were caused because the mount specification data has gotten scrambled - a bug that can occur with the G chip. As a result, it is not tracking, parking or slewing correctly. Unfortunately, the control box must be returned here to be reprogrammed.



Please read additional information in my new post entited: Notice to all 1200GTO owners with GTOCP3 control box.



I apologize for your inconvenience. We will return it as quickly as possible.



Marj Christen

Astro-Physics, Inc

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

Fax: 815-282-9847

www.astro-physics.com

Please include this e-mail with your response.



-----Original Message-----

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups. mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> com [mailto: ap-gto@yahoogroups. mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> com]On Behalf Of Luca

Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 11:23 AM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups. mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> com

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?



Thank you Roland. On monday the replacement should be on its way here and, after trying it, we'll see what to do.



Ciao

Luca



----- Original Message -----

From: chris1011@aol. mailto:chris1011%40aol.com> com

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups. mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> com

Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 5:34 PM

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Why my trusted 1200 has gone nuts?



In a message dated 8/18/2006 7:04:49 PM Central Daylight Time,

astrovale@fastwebne mailto:astrovale%40fastwebnet.it> t.it writes:



> 2) when I asked PG to get the location data from the mount it only received

> the Lat data and placed three zeros instead of the Long data. I checked the

> keypad and the location was correctly set. I then wrote the Long data and

> clicked the send to mount option. After that I canceled the data and asked again

> to get them from the mount: same thing, i.e. it received only the Lat.

>



If that is the case, then there is a problem with one of the microchips in

the servo drive. You will need to try your replacement servo from your dealer.

If it clears up the problem, then we can certainly fix the servo here.



Roland Christen



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#24502 Apr 12, 2009

My AP1200 pointing is off now.. my first point was off, way off so I had to use an eyepiece and find it. I then sync'd in Maxim, which resulted in good GOTO, followed by re-syncs while using it as normal through the night. Then I told it to park-1 for the night, and it went to a position noticeably off from park 1 with the weight quite detectably low and the scope pointing slightly East of park 1.



Time is correct in the mount, time is correct on the computer. I had good sync in Maxim before park-1 was called.



How can it get so confused? Since sync is not repairing it in Maxim, do I need to sync on a star using the hand controller in person at the mount? I wonder what sync'ing in the mount will make Maxpoint think?



thanks for any insight, I'm confused

Mike



----------------------------

#24503 Apr 12, 2009

Mike, if it looks to be off by about an hour I'd check the Daylight Savings issue.







Stuart







To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

From: mike@...

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 18:56:47 +0000

Subject: [ap-gto] something frustrating has happened

















My AP1200 pointing is off now.. my first point was off, way off so I had to use an eyepiece and find it. I then sync'd in Maxim, which resulted in good GOTO, followed by re-syncs while using it as normal through the night. Then I told it to park-1 for the night, and it went to a position noticeably off from park 1 with the weight quite detectably low and the scope pointing slightly East of park 1.



Time is correct in the mount, time is correct on the computer. I had good sync in Maxim before park-1 was called.



How can it get so confused? Since sync is not repairing it in Maxim, do I need to sync on a star using the hand controller in person at the mount? I wonder what sync'ing in the mount will make Maxpoint think?



thanks for any insight, I'm confused

Mike





















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#24504 Apr 12, 2009

Mike,







Did you sync to The Sky or to Maxim? I've used Maxim for camera control, but

never for telescope control.







Best regards,







Tom







From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

Mike

Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 11:57 AM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [ap-gto] something frustrating has happened



















My AP1200 pointing is off now.. my first point was off, way off so I had to

use an eyepiece and find it. I then sync'd in Maxim, which resulted in good

GOTO, followed by re-syncs while using it as normal through the night. Then

I told it to park-1 for the night, and it went to a position noticeably off

from park 1 with the weight quite detectably low and the scope pointing

slightly East of park 1.



Time is correct in the mount, time is correct on the computer. I had good

sync in Maxim before park-1 was called.



How can it get so confused? Since sync is not repairing it in Maxim, do I

need to sync on a star using the hand controller in person at the mount? I

wonder what sync'ing in the mount will make Maxpoint think?



thanks for any insight, I'm confused

Mike











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#24506 Apr 12, 2009

In fact I did do something recently. I have typically used the mount so that when power is connected it turns on and starts tracking. This has worked well for good GOTO for a year with minimal regional syncs (in Maxim via MaxPoint) during the night.



I got worried about the occasional accidental times I leave the mount powered in but parked, that my local power company would cut power and then restore and my mount would start moving and wrap itself up and hurt something, so i changed to a different power up mode. That's when things went awry.



I was using the mode where the mount powers up and asks for location 1-9 and press GOTO and then select "resume from park 1" . I figured if this worked fine it would get me away from the danger of the power company making my mount start tracking without my approval.



Since pointing problems started then, I went back to the power-up-and-start-tracking mode. But now I'm in this situation. Even after a good clean sync to a star in Maxim, and repeated good GOTO, park 1 is not in the right place.



Mike



----------------------------

#24508 Apr 12, 2009

Mike,



It sounds like some issues I was having until someone explained how this all works. Check the ASCOM driver which is what I presume controls the mount via Maxim. Basically all programs that talk to each other through the ASCOM driver simply send commands to the driver and let ASCOM control the mount.



So, here's what you do. Loosen the clutches and open the ASCOM driver. Tell it to park the scope where you want it to be, say Park Position 1. Hold onto the scope so it doesn't crash into anything during the slew. After it stops use your bubble level to position the scope/mount to Park Possition 1 and tighten down the clutches.



Your there. At this point if you are always using external computer control, set to EXT and shut down. Throw away the hand controller. The next time you turn on the compure and connect the mount through Maxim, The Sky, or whatever, ASCOM will know where the mount is and pick up from possition 1.



Hope that helps,



Kyle

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" mike@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> In fact I did do something recently. I have typically used the mount so that when power is connected it turns on and starts tracking. This has worked well for good GOTO for a year with minimal regional syncs (in Maxim via MaxPoint) during the night.

>

> I got worried about the occasional accidental times I leave the mount powered in but parked, that my local power company would cut power and then restore and my mount would start moving and wrap itself up and hurt something, so i changed to a different power up mode. That's when things went awry.

>

> I was using the mode where the mount powers up and asks for location 1-9 and press GOTO and then select "resume from park 1" . I figured if this worked fine it would get me away from the danger of the power company making my mount start tracking without my approval.

>

> Since pointing problems started then, I went back to the power-up-and-start-tracking mode. But now I'm in this situation. Even after a good clean sync to a star in Maxim, and repeated good GOTO, park 1 is not in the right place.

>

> Mike

>







----------------------------

#24512 Apr 13, 2009

Thanks everyone. I know some of this is common sense to many (and probably should be to me.) I've had clear skies on my schedule about 5- 10 times in the last year though so I'm not getting a lot of quality time in.



Helpful stuff.



I guess the obvious thing is the mount doesn't know where it is properly, so Rolands mount-centric advice is first. I wont even turn the computer on I'll whistle innocently and sneak up on the mount and park-1 calibrate it with a level (since I put it in park 1 last) and then do a recal and park 1 again.



Then I'll turn it on and I suspect it will be immediately happy, but I will check my ASCOM driver also for daylight time issues, which I had not considered.



I have to assume here that sync's in Maxim are not officially syncing in the mount. I dont know how otherwise my clearcut syncs to position of Capella could be immediately followed by a totally whacked park-1 from the hand controller.



Mike Clemens



----------------------------

#24517 Apr 15, 2009

OK - My hand controller had correct local time, but incorrect GMT.



So I changed the daylight savings setting and did an Rcal on a star and then something bizarro happened. I told it to park-1 and it went to the correct RA, nice and level, but started slewing in reverse to the park pos in DEC, so it wanted to point the scope South, bad for cables!



I aborted the slew and manually slewed the DEC correctly until the scope was level, put the mount in the mode where it wakes up and lets you say "Resume from park-1", powered down and resumed from park 1 and then Rcal'd on a star.



I think everything is fine now.



how did I end up getting the mount confused on which way the DEC needed to spin???



----------------------------

#24522 Apr 15, 2009

Your mileage may vary but . . .



Something in my system gets very confused during the "early" and "late" parts of daylight savings time (the relatively new dates for DST). It may be the mount, laptop, TheSky, pulseguide, whatever but it has trouble. I found that, rather than switching to daylight savings time, telling Pulseguide (when I initialize) that my GMT offset is different works better. I.e. my true GMT offset in standard time is -8 (California). So for daylight savings time I tell everything that I am "still on standard time but at a GMT offset of -7 hours." Then the Mount and TheSky agree and everything works smoothly.



Drew Sullivan

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Wiggins" rickwiggins@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Howard,

> Thanks for posting a procedure for this. I use a very similar procedure to absolutely ensure everything has re,synched, calibrated, etc to the new time.



----------------------------

#25549 Aug 22, 2009

Antonio, this image is beautiful. I am glad you gave us the reference location - I had this long ago and lost it.







Stuart







To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com; ASA_AstroSystemeAustria@yahoogroups.com; SBIG@yahoogroups.com

From: afesan@...

Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:12:45 +0000

Subject: [ap-gto] A pair of rusty (reddish) Barnard`s : 82 years later..











Hi Group .

After reading incidentally some comments of Anthony Ayomamitis about Barnard dark nebula in another forum long time ago (BTW: Anthony has a great website .) ..I finally found a brief reference in the book

"A Photographic Atlas of Selected Regions of the Milky Way" of the Astronomer Edward Emerson Barnard. This catalogue is wonderfully presented on the web with an interactive format in the "Georgia Tech Collection" website: www.library.gatech.edu/search/digital_collections/barnard/index.html



When I read the "Description" section of the Barnard 159...(SIC):" Irregular partially vacant region, diam 25.. This is the center of an irregular, partially vacant region 25' in diameter. It is suggestive of the presence of a dark or faint nebulosity, as there are several small darker spots in it. It lies 40' northwest of Nova Cygni of 1876, and involves the stars BD+42.4177 (5.2 mag), +42.4172 (8.4 mag), and 42.4164 (7.7 mag). It is somewhat extended east and west. A very long exposure on this region would doubtless be interesting.. "



This last phrase " A very long exposure on this region would doubtless be interesting--" spurred me on to image this area....

If Mr. Barnard coud see the actual technical aids now.....



5 hours in Luminance and 2 hours in every R,G and B filters are the result. I hope you like it.I did.nt found images of this nebulosity around Barnard.s 158 & 159 in Internet ..Nothing.......

There are two link at the bottom of the image that I think are of interest..the second explaining the reddish" aspects of the dust..



The link to the image: afesan.es/new-page-3.htm clicking over the image opne more resolutions windows (maximum 1920x1080 image size).I hope you like it.



Thanks for looking .

Have a nice weekend.

Regards,



Antonio

afesan.es



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#25550 Aug 22, 2009

Antonio. another great image. I love the Barnard objects and these are very

interesting. Also, thanks for the link, I had not seen this before. It's a

great reference.



Jim ----- Original Message -----

From: "Antonio Fernandez" afesan@...>

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>; ASA_AstroSystemeAustria@yahoogroups.com>;

SBIG@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 4:12 AM

Subject: [ap-gto] A pair of rusty (reddish) Barnard`s : 82 years later..





Hi Group .

After reading incidentally some comments of Anthony Ayomamitis about

Barnard dark nebula in another forum long time ago (BTW: Anthony has a great

website .) ..I finally found a brief reference in the book

"A Photographic Atlas of Selected Regions of the Milky Way" of the

Astronomer Edward Emerson Barnard. This catalogue is wonderfully presented

on the web with an interactive format in the "Georgia Tech Collection"

website:

www.library.gatech.edu/search/digital_collections/barnard/index.html



When I read the "Description" section of the Barnard 159...(SIC):" Irregular

partially vacant region, diam 25.. This is the center of an irregular,

partially vacant region 25' in diameter. It is suggestive of the presence of

a dark or faint nebulosity, as there are several small darker spots in it.

It lies 40' northwest of Nova Cygni of 1876, and involves the stars

BD+42.4177 (5.2 mag), +42.4172 (8.4 mag), and 42.4164 (7.7 mag). It is

somewhat extended east and west. A very long exposure on this region would

doubtless be interesting.. "



This last phrase " A very long exposure on this region would doubtless be

interesting--" spurred me on to image this area....

If Mr. Barnard coud see the actual technical aids now.....



5 hours in Luminance and 2 hours in every R,G and B filters are the result.

I hope you like it.I did.nt found images of this nebulosity around Barnard.s

158 & 159 in Internet ..Nothing.......

There are two link at the bottom of the image that I think are of

interest..the second explaining the reddish" aspects of the dust..



The link to the image: afesan.es/new-page-3.htm clicking over the

image opne more resolutions windows (maximum 1920x1080 image size).I hope

you like it.



Thanks for looking .

Have a nice weekend.

Regards,





Antonio

afesan.es



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







---------------



To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links







----------------------------

#25552 Aug 22, 2009

Thanks Stuart.......Glad to be useful ..

Regards.



Antonio

afesan.es





From: stuart.j.heggie@...

Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 11:42 AM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [ap-gto] A pair of rusty (reddish) Barnard`s : 82 years later..







Antonio, this image is beautiful. I am glad you gave us the reference location - I had this long ago and lost it.



Stuart





To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com; ASA_AstroSystemeAustria@yahoogroups.com; SBIG@yahoogroups.com

From: afesan@...

Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:12:45 +0000

Subject: [ap-gto] A pair of rusty (reddish) Barnard`s : 82 years later..



Hi Group .

After reading incidentally some comments of Anthony Ayomamitis about Barnard dark nebula in another forum long time ago (BTW: Anthony has a great website .) ..I finally found a brief reference in the book

"A Photographic Atlas of Selected Regions of the Milky Way" of the Astronomer Edward Emerson Barnard. This catalogue is wonderfully presented on the web with an interactive format in the "Georgia Tech Collection" website: www.library.gatech.edu/search/digital_collections/barnard/index.html



When I read the "Description" section of the Barnard 159...(SIC):" Irregular partially vacant region, diam 25.. This is the center of an irregular, partially vacant region 25' in diameter. It is suggestive of the presence of a dark or faint nebulosity, as there are several small darker spots in it. It lies 40' northwest of Nova Cygni of 1876, and involves the stars BD+42.4177 (5.2 mag), +42.4172 (8.4 mag), and 42.4164 (7.7 mag). It is somewhat extended east and west. A very long exposure on this region would doubtless be interesting.. "



This last phrase " A very long exposure on this region would doubtless be interesting--" spurred me on to image this area....

If Mr. Barnard coud see the actual technical aids now.....



5 hours in Luminance and 2 hours in every R,G and B filters are the result. I hope you like it.I did.nt found images of this nebulosity around Barnard.s 158 & 159 in Internet ..Nothing.......

There are two link at the bottom of the image that I think are of interest..the second explaining the reddish" aspects of the dust..



The link to the image: afesan.es/new-page-3.htm clicking over the image opne more resolutions windows (maximum 1920x1080 image size).I hope you like it.



Thanks for looking .

Have a nice weekend.

Regards,



Antonio

afesan.es



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#25553 Aug 22, 2009

Well Jim...it.s clear some friends know this link..but many of us (me also ) don.t...Yes, surely it.s a good reference for Barnard`s targets if you pretend to image one ..and look for..



Thank you for the kind words...



Antonio

afesan.es





From: Jim Janusz

Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:50 PM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] A pair of rusty (reddish) Barnard`s : 82 years later..





Antonio. another great image. I love the Barnard objects and these are very

interesting. Also, thanks for the link, I had not seen this before. It's a

great reference.



Jim ----- Original Message -----

From: "Antonio Fernandez" afesan@...>

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>; ASA_AstroSystemeAustria@yahoogroups.com>;

SBIG@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 4:12 AM

Subject: [ap-gto] A pair of rusty (reddish) Barnard`s : 82 years later..



Hi Group .

After reading incidentally some comments of Anthony Ayomamitis about

Barnard dark nebula in another forum long time ago (BTW: Anthony has a great

website .) ..I finally found a brief reference in the book

"A Photographic Atlas of Selected Regions of the Milky Way" of the

Astronomer Edward Emerson Barnard. This catalogue is wonderfully presented

on the web with an interactive format in the "Georgia Tech Collection"

website:

www.library.gatech.edu/search/digital_collections/barnard/index.html



When I read the "Description" section of the Barnard 159...(SIC):" Irregular

partially vacant region, diam 25.. This is the center of an irregular,

partially vacant region 25' in diameter. It is suggestive of the presence of

a dark or faint nebulosity, as there are several small darker spots in it.

It lies 40' northwest of Nova Cygni of 1876, and involves the stars

BD+42.4177 (5.2 mag), +42.4172 (8.4 mag), and 42.4164 (7.7 mag). It is

somewhat extended east and west. A very long exposure on this region would

doubtless be interesting.. "



This last phrase " A very long exposure on this region would doubtless be

interesting--" spurred me on to image this area....

If Mr. Barnard coud see the actual technical aids now.....



5 hours in Luminance and 2 hours in every R,G and B filters are the result.

I hope you like it.I did.nt found images of this nebulosity around Barnard.s

158 & 159 in Internet ..Nothing.......

There are two link at the bottom of the image that I think are of

interest..the second explaining the reddish" aspects of the dust..



The link to the image: afesan.es/new-page-3.htm clicking over the

image opne more resolutions windows (maximum 1920x1080 image size).I hope

you like it.



Thanks for looking .

Have a nice weekend.

Regards,



Antonio

afesan.es



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



---------------



To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#26466 Dec 22, 2009

In a message dated 12/22/2009 11:27:09 AM Central Standard Time,

ppml3@... writes:



> Actually this one was plucked from the skies of southern France

> nearly a month ago so there's a bit of marketing in the term

> 'fresh'~ It's the first of several I am processing from my November

> escape to dark skies. Thought I'd share this in the meantime - more

> later:

> www.astrocruise.com/milky_way/M1_0911.htm

>

> This was imaged using my RCOS 12.5" with SBIG STL-11K. The mount is

> my trusty AP900-GTO on the original AP Portable Pier (~10 years

> vintage). I use none of the fix-ups I hear discussed

> frequently. Hand controller only, PEM untrained, RA and Dec backlash

> both zero - just pure AP quality. Everything has to be portable

> because of frequent long distance trips to my dark sky site.

>

> Clear skies,

> Philip Perkins

> ppml3@...>

> Wiltshire UK & Luberon France

> www.astrocruise.com



WOAH! Spectacular!!



Rolando





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#26471 Dec 22, 2009

Stuart,



Thank you very much. I didn't meant to flippant when I said the PEM

was untrained - actually I observe the PE quite carefully -- sure

there is PE but is small and most importantly the movement is

extremely smooth -- the SBIG autoguider handles it very nicely. If

I was doing unguided imaging then I would surely use some PEM. I also

check the Dec backlash carefully but the delay is small and the gears

handle the change quite exquisitely (after 10 years!!) - I have tried

a Dec backlash correction of "1" but frankly guiding is better

without because of the disturbance caused by the very small

jump. And this is while carrying the 12.5" RCOS - wow!



Clear skies

Philip

--

At 21:07 22/12/2009, you wrote:

>Philip, this is an astonishing image - wow!

>

>I too run my AP900GTO CP2 pretty well out of the box. I never cease

>to marvel at how well made they are.

>

>Stuart

>

>To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

>From: ppml3@...

>Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:24:18 +0000

>Subject: [ap-gto] Fresh crustacean from southern France

>

>Actually this one was plucked from the skies of southern France

>nearly a month ago so there's a bit of marketing in the term

>'fresh'~ It's the first of several I am processing from my November

>escape to dark skies. Thought I'd share this in the meantime - more later:

>www.astrocruise.com/milky_way/M1_0911.htm

>

>This was imaged using my RCOS 12.5" with SBIG STL-11K. The mount is

>my trusty AP900-GTO on the original AP Portable Pier (~10 years

>vintage). I use none of the fix-ups I hear discussed

>frequently. Hand controller only, PEM untrained, RA and Dec backlash

>both zero - just pure AP quality. Everything has to be portable

>because of frequent long distance trips to my dark sky site.

>

>Clear skies,

>Philip Perkins

>ppml3@...>

>Wiltshire UK & Luberon France

>www.astrocruise.com

>--

>Note: the above email address may change in future.

>To find my latest email address please visit: www.astrocruise.com

>and click the "Send Email" link.

>--

>

>

>

>

>

>

>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

---------------

>

>To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

>see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

Philip Perkins

ppml3@...>

Wiltshire UK & Luberon France

www.astrocruise.com

--

Note: the above email address may change in future.

To find my latest email address please visit: www.astrocruise.com

and click the "Send Email" link.

--



----------------------------

#26472 Dec 22, 2009

Chuck,



Wow, you are very generous - thank you. Actually

it all comes from other people..~ Chuck Vaughn

for the wonderful custom RCOS field flattener

(via Robert Bickel) and Jerry Lodriguss for the

SMI technique which I use as a basis for boosting

the RGB data prior to assembly (goes back to film

days). The post-processing comes largely from

tuning in to Mark Johnson

www.msjphotography.com/> over the past

couple of years - this is based on daylight

photography but many of the techniques apply also to astrophotography.



Clear skies

Philip

--

At 21:40 22/12/2009, you wrote:

>Hi Philip,

>Best Crab Nebula I've seen......... Period

>Chuck/divenuts

>

>----- Original Message -----

>From: "Philip Perkins" ruise.com>ppml3@...>

>To: groups.com>ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

>Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 12:24 PM

>Subject: [ap-gto] Fresh crustacean from southern France

>

> > Actually this one was plucked from the skies of southern France

> > nearly a month ago so there's a bit of marketing in the term

> > 'fresh'~ It's the first of several I am processing from my November

> > escape to dark skies. Thought I'd share this in the meantime - more

> > later:

> >

> www.astrocruise.com/milky_way/M1_0911.htm>www.astrocruise.com/milky_way/M1_0911.htm

> >

> > This was imaged using my RCOS 12.5" with SBIG STL-11K. The mount is

> > my trusty AP900-GTO on the original AP Portable Pier (~10 years

> > vintage). I use none of the fix-ups I hear discussed

> > frequently. Hand controller only, PEM untrained, RA and Dec backlash

> > both zero - just pure AP quality. Everything has to be portable

> > because of frequent long distance trips to my dark sky site.

> >

> > Clear skies,

> > Philip Perkins

> > ruise.com>ppml3@...>

> > Wiltshire UK & Luberon France

> > www.astrocruise.com

> > --

> > Note: the above email address may change in future.

> > To find my latest email address please visit: www.astrocruise.com

> > and click the "Send Email" link.

> > --

> >

> >

> >

---------------

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> > see

> groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo>groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo!

> Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

>

>



Philip Perkins

ppml3@...>

Wiltshire UK & Luberon France

www.astrocruise.com

--

Note: the above email address may change in future.

To find my latest email address please visit: www.astrocruise.com

and click the "Send Email" link.

--







----------------------------

#39780 Mar 5, 2013

Dear All,

I have passed two nights...I followed the instructions slavishly (maniacally) "REVISED GTO QUICK STAR DRIFT METHOD OF POLAR ALIGNMENT"

I started with an accurate polar scope alignment (I have a Losmandy polar scope mounted on my AP1200 CP2, 4.17 v keypad).

The alignment was not bad since the GOTO put the stars very close to the center of the 8x50 (and near to the center of view of a STL11k with 2800 mm of focal length).

Then I started with a GOTO to an altitude adjustment star (Giausar star of the Appendix I), then I went back and forth across the meridian four or five times correcting E-W error half by keypad, half by finderscope, N-S half by the elevation, half by the keypad (always doing the resinc). At the end the goto was very fine.

Then I went to the south star (Zet Crt, but I tried also Denebola) and there was a lot of error. I corrected all I could by azimut, without resinc, but when I went back to the altitude star it was non longer centered...then I tried again to correct E-W by finderscope/keypad and N-S by elevation/keypad, but when I went to the other position with respect the meridian the star was far from center again.

The more I went forward as the situation seemed to diverge.

I don't understand what could be my error doing this routine.



Please help me, I know that something is wrong....



Thanks,



Leonardo Priami



----------------------------

#39782 Mar 5, 2013

"South star?" Unlike traditional drift-alignment, where you adjust the azimuth first, then adjust the altitude, with Quick Drift Alignment you start with getting the altitude right, then you correct the azimuth. For the azimuth step, you need a star in the east or west. Once the azimuth is adjusted, you go back to the altitude (meridian) star and touch up that adjustment. When you're done, you should be good enough to do extended narrowband exposures (say, 30-36 min). Even the polarscope with the Losmandy reticle should get you pretty close. For visual, the polarscope should get you close enough for hours of studying, say, Jupiter, with only occasional minor adjustments with the keypad.

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Leonardo Priami l.priami@...> wrote:

>

>

> Dear All,

> I have passed two nights...I followed the instructions slavishly (maniacally) "REVISED GTO QUICK STAR DRIFT METHOD OF POLAR ALIGNMENT"

> I started with an accurate polar scope alignment (I have a Losmandy polar scope mounted on my AP1200 CP2, 4.17 v keypad).

> The alignment was not bad since the GOTO put the stars very close to the center of the 8x50 (and near to the center of view of a STL11k with 2800 mm of focal length).

> Then I started with a GOTO to an altitude adjustment star (Giausar star of the Appendix I), then I went back and forth across the meridian four or five times correcting E-W error half by keypad, half by finderscope, N-S half by the elevation, half by the keypad (always doing the resinc). At the end the goto was very fine.

> Then I went to the south star (Zet Crt, but I tried also Denebola) and there was a lot of error. I corrected all I could by azimut, without resinc, but when I went back to the altitude star it was non longer centered...then I tried again to correct E-W by finderscope/keypad and N-S by elevation/keypad, but when I went to the other position with respect the meridian the star was far from center again.

> The more I went forward as the situation seemed to diverge.

> I don't understand what could be my error doing this routine.

>

> Please help me, I know that something is wrong....

>

> Thanks,

>

> Leonardo Priami

>



----------------------------

#39785 Mar 6, 2013

I follow the instruction of AP keypad manual called "Revised GTO quick star drift method of polar alignment".

With this method we need to adjust altitude before using flip meridian procedure. For the azimuth step the instruction give me the star where I have to GOTO. It is generally in the same side (east, having the scope on the west) and with negative declination (I'm in the north, Italy) and with a similar AR with respect the altitude star. The problem is that after a good polar scope alignment and after a fine altitude adjustment, when I go to the azimuth star the error is big...and if I correct it adjusting the azimuth screws when I come back to the altitude star it is out...And if I correct again altitude, when I perform the meridian flip the star (the same) is out again....



I need the best polar alignment for long exposure, but I spent two night only frustrating me.



Leonardo



Il giorno 05/mar/2013, alle ore 19.13, CurtisC ha scritto:

> "South star?" Unlike traditional drift-alignment, where you adjust the azimuth first, then adjust the altitude, with Quick Drift Alignment you start with getting the altitude right, then you correct the azimuth. For the azimuth step, you need a star in the east or west. Once the azimuth is adjusted, you go back to the altitude (meridian) star and touch up that adjustment. When you're done, you should be good enough to do extended narrowband exposures (say, 30-36 min). Even the polarscope with the Losmandy reticle should get you pretty close. For visual, the polarscope should get you close enough for hours of studying, say, Jupiter, with only occasional minor adjustments with the keypad.

>

> --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Leonardo Priami wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear All,

> > I have passed two nights...I followed the instructions slavishly (maniacally) "REVISED GTO QUICK STAR DRIFT METHOD OF POLAR ALIGNMENT"

> > I started with an accurate polar scope alignment (I have a Losmandy polar scope mounted on my AP1200 CP2, 4.17 v keypad).

> > The alignment was not bad since the GOTO put the stars very close to the center of the 8x50 (and near to the center of view of a STL11k with 2800 mm of focal length).

> > Then I started with a GOTO to an altitude adjustment star (Giausar star of the Appendix I), then I went back and forth across the meridian four or five times correcting E-W error half by keypad, half by finderscope, N-S half by the elevation, half by the keypad (always doing the resinc). At the end the goto was very fine.

> > Then I went to the south star (Zet Crt, but I tried also Denebola) and there was a lot of error. I corrected all I could by azimut, without resinc, but when I went back to the altitude star it was non longer centered...then I tried again to correct E-W by finderscope/keypad and N-S by elevation/keypad, but when I went to the other position with respect the meridian the star was far from center again.

> > The more I went forward as the situation seemed to diverge.

> > I don't understand what could be my error doing this routine.

> >

> > Please help me, I know that something is wrong....

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Leonardo Priami

> >

>

>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#41644 Sep 4, 2013

Hi,

sorry to being here only when I'm frustrated about something.



Here about the guiding of my AP1200 CP2.

The handpad has the 4.17 v firmware and the last V2 driver.



- I have a Newton-Wynne 300 mm f/3,8 (1140 mm of focal length) with an

Apogee U16M and in parallel a FSQ106 (530 mm) with a Apogee F9 (both

camera with 9 micron pixel).

- On the main telescope I have a FWHM star about 1,3/1,5 pixel (2,1/2,5

"), On the FSQ I have a FWHM about 1 pixel.

- The guiding is performed by a Starlight Lodestar using a MMoag

off-axis on the FSQ. (3,3/3,4 "/pixel).

With this parameters I see that I need to perform a guiding with a P-V

error less than 0,5 pixel (+/- 0,25 pixel). If I found oval stars when

the error goes to 0,5 pixel.

- The cable connects directly the Lodestar with the mount.

- The Lodestar doesn't work under MaximDL, neither with its driver,

neither with its Ascom driver (it perform a too short calibration even

if I set 40 sec on setting...)

-The guiding is performed with PHD

-The DEC balancing is perfect (may be necessary a little un-balancing?)

-Polar alignment is very good (I have a Dec Drift of about 1 pixel on

guider after 10/15 min)

-I tried more time to adjust the Dec backlash as suggested on the AP

site. The Dec warm gear shaft can be turn by hand from the gear side

(dismounting the first gear).

- Moving manually the gears I see a back-lash of about 1 tooth on the

first motor gear, moving with handpad I see about of less than 1 sec at

0,5X to compensate a "1 tooth" backlash (so about 7 arcsec to set the V2

driver?)

-I tried with 0,5X and 0,25X without improvement

-I tried 2s, 3s, and 4 sec, the seeing is 2,3" FWHM, with 4 s I see

better results, but still I have some Dec jumps



Principally I tried to set "Auto" on the Dec guide setting on PHD, but I

see a lot of jumps.

Selecting only one direction the performance is better, but I see some

jumps every 2-3 min. Also RA seems some times to be correlated.

I attached three shot that show the graphs. The red line is the Dec.

Some suggestion to solve?

Thanks a lot!



Regards,



Leonardo Priami







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#41645 Sep 4, 2013

Sorry, here the link to see the screenshots:



www.lpriami.altervista.org/ImAstro/Service.html



Thanks for help!



Leonardo



Il 04/09/2013 11.37, Leonardo Priami ha scritto:

 Hi,

sorry to being here only when I'm frustrated aboutsomething.



Here about the guiding of my AP1200 CP2.

The handpad has the 4.17 v firmware and the last V2driver.



- I have a Newton-Wynne 300 mm f/3,8 (1140 mm of focallength) with an

Apogee U16M and in parallel a FSQ106 (530 mm) with aApogee F9 (both

camera with 9 micron pixel).

- On the main telescope I have a FWHM star about 1,3/1,5pixel (2,1/2,5

"), On the FSQ I have a FWHM about 1 pixel.

- The guiding is performed by a Starlight Lodestar using aMMoag

off-axis on the FSQ. (3,3/3,4 "/pixel).

With this parameters I see that I need to perform aguiding with a P-V

error less than 0,5 pixel (+/- 0,25 pixel). If I foundoval stars when

the error goes to 0,5 pixel.

- The cable connects directly the Lodestar with the mount.

- The Lodestar doesn't work under MaximDL, neither withits driver,

neither with its Ascom driver (it perform a too shortcalibration even

if I set 40 sec on setting...)

-The guiding is performed with PHD

-The DEC balancing is perfect (may be necessary a littleun-balancing?)

-Polar alignment is very good (I have a Dec Drift of about1 pixel on

guider after 10/15 min)

-I tried more time to adjust the Dec backlash as suggestedon the AP

site. The Dec warm gear shaft can be turn by hand from thegear side

(dismounting the first gear).

- Moving manually the gears I see a back-lash of about 1tooth on the

first motor gear, moving with handpad I see about of lessthan 1 sec at

0,5X to compensate a "1 tooth" backlash (so about 7 arcsecto set the V2

driver?)

-I tried with 0,5X and 0,25X without improvement

-I tried 2s, 3s, and 4 sec, the seeing is 2,3" FWHM, with4 s I see

better results, but still I have some Dec jumps



Principally I tried to set "Auto" on the Dec guide settingon PHD, but I

see a lot of jumps.

Selecting only one direction the performance is better,but I see some

jumps every 2-3 min. Also RA seems some times to becorrelated.

I attached three shot that show the graphs. The red lineis the Dec.

Some suggestion to solve?

Thanks a lot!



Regards,



Leonardo Priami



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#41646 Sep 4, 2013

Hi Leonardo,



Your Max Dec Duration of 600msec may be a little too high. Check the log if Dec correction ever hit 600msec. A-P mounts are too smooth and normally have very little to no backlash so Max Dec Duration should not have to be this high. If the seeing is not good and setting Max Dec Duration a little high could cause overshooting. Try set it to as low as 75msec.



Also the Min Motion might be a little too small. Small Min Motion can send too many corrections to the mount.



Because your mount is high end, I would set the guide exposure times to at least 3 seconds to balance out the seeing and improve guide star image (higher SNR).



Can you use OAG for your bigger scope? You can get differential flexure between guide and main scope. You said the guide scope is in parallel with main scope, do you mean side by side or piggyback?



Peter

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Leonardo Priami l.priami@...> wrote:

>

> Sorry, here the link to see the screen shots:

>

> www.lpriami.altervista.org/ImAstro/Service.html

>

> Thanks for help!

>

> Leonardo

>

> Il 04/09/2013 11.37, Leonardo Priami ha scritto:

> >

> > Hi,

> > sorry to being here only when I'm frustrated about something.

> >

> > Here about the guiding of my AP1200 CP2.

> > The handpad has the 4.17 v firmware and the last V2 driver.

> >

> > - I have a Newton-Wynne 300 mm f/3,8 (1140 mm of focal length) with an

> > Apogee U16M and in parallel a FSQ106 (530 mm) with a Apogee F9 (both

> > camera with 9 micron pixel).

> > - On the main telescope I have a FWHM star about 1,3/1,5 pixel (2,1/2,5

> > "), On the FSQ I have a FWHM about 1 pixel.

> > - The guiding is performed by a Starlight Lodestar using a MMoag

> > off-axis on the FSQ. (3,3/3,4 "/pixel).

> > With this parameters I see that I need to perform a guiding with a P-V

> > error less than 0,5 pixel (+/- 0,25 pixel). If I found oval stars when

> > the error goes to 0,5 pixel.

> > - The cable connects directly the Lodestar with the mount.

> > - The Lodestar doesn't work under MaximDL, neither with its driver,

> > neither with its Ascom driver (it perform a too short calibration even

> > if I set 40 sec on setting...)

> > -The guiding is performed with PHD

> > -The DEC balancing is perfect (may be necessary a little un-balancing?)

> > -Polar alignment is very good (I have a Dec Drift of about 1 pixel on

> > guider after 10/15 min)

> > -I tried more time to adjust the Dec backlash as suggested on the AP

> > site. The Dec warm gear shaft can be turn by hand from the gear side

> > (dismounting the first gear).

> > - Moving manually the gears I see a back-lash of about 1 tooth on the

> > first motor gear, moving with handpad I see about of less than 1 sec at

> > 0,5X to compensate a "1 tooth" backlash (so about 7 arcsec to set the V2

> > driver?)

> > -I tried with 0,5X and 0,25X without improvement

> > -I tried 2s, 3s, and 4 sec, the seeing is 2,3" FWHM, with 4 s I see

> > better results, but still I have some Dec jumps

> >

> > Principally I tried to set "Auto" on the Dec guide setting on PHD, but I

> > see a lot of jumps.

> > Selecting only one direction the performance is better, but I see some

> > jumps every 2-3 min. Also RA seems some times to be correlated.

> > I attached three shot that show the graphs. The red line is the Dec.

> > Some suggestion to solve?

> > Thanks a lot!

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Leonardo Priami

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> >

>







----------------------------

#41648 Sep 4, 2013

Hi Peter,

thanks for your help.

About your suggestion:

- I see (below the PHD screen) that the bigger correction arearound 150/300 ms, but only when after a few attempt the mountstill remain out.



- About the exposure time I set to 3 or 4 seconds. I agree. Butstill I see some jumps as you can see in the pictures I show.



- I can't use the OAG in the main scope because I have only 4 mmfrom the 3"Wynne corrector and the filter wheel flange.



- The FSQ is piggybacked but with very strong system. I wouldexclude flexure.



What I suspect is some "elasticity" somewhere in the gear trainthat bring the motor to rotate a bit and no rotation to the wormgear.

I think that may occur some stick-slip phenomena between the wormgear and the wheel. After have  accumulated sufficient force, thanthe movement will take place, realizing too much movement thanrequested and not when requested.



What do you think about?



Thanks,



Leonardo





Il 04/09/2013 17.13, topboxman2000 ha scritto:

 



Hi Leonardo,



Your Max Dec Duration of 600msec may be a little too high.Check the log if Dec correction ever hit 600msec. A-Pmounts are too smooth and normally have very little to nobacklash so Max Dec Duration should not have to be thishigh. If the seeing is not good and setting Max DecDuration a little high could cause overshooting. Try setit to as low as 75msec.



Also the Min Motion might be a little too small. Small MinMotion can send too many corrections to the mount.



Because your mount is high end, I would set the guideexposure times to at least 3 seconds to balance out theseeing and improve guide star image (higher SNR).



Can you use OAG for your bigger scope? You can getdifferential flexure between guide and main scope. Yousaid the guide scope is in parallel with main scope, doyou mean side by side or piggyback?



Peter



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Leonardo Priamil.priami@...> wrote:

>

> Sorry, here the link to see the screen shots:

>

>www.lpriami.altervista.org/ImAstro/Service.html

>

> Thanks for help!

>

> Leonardo

>

> Il 04/09/2013 11.37, Leonardo Priami ha scritto:

> >

> > Hi,

> > sorry to being here only when I'm frustratedabout something.

> >

> > Here about the guiding of my AP1200 CP2.

> > The handpad has the 4.17 v firmware and the lastV2 driver.

> >

> > - I have a Newton-Wynne 300 mm f/3,8 (1140 mm offocal length) with an

> > Apogee U16M and in parallel a FSQ106 (530 mm)with a Apogee F9 (both

> > camera with 9 micron pixel).

> > - On the main telescope I have a FWHM star about1,3/1,5 pixel (2,1/2,5

> > "), On the FSQ I have a FWHM about 1 pixel.

> > - The guiding is performed by a StarlightLodestar using a MMoag

> > off-axis on the FSQ. (3,3/3,4 "/pixel).

> > With this parameters I see that I need toperform a guiding with a P-V

> > error less than 0,5 pixel (+/- 0,25 pixel). If Ifound oval stars when

> > the error goes to 0,5 pixel.

> > - The cable connects directly the Lodestar withthe mount.

> > - The Lodestar doesn't work under MaximDL,neither with its driver,

> > neither with its Ascom driver (it perform a tooshort calibration even

> > if I set 40 sec on setting...)

> > -The guiding is performed with PHD

> > -The DEC balancing is perfect (may be necessarya little un-balancing?)

> > -Polar alignment is very good (I have a DecDrift of about 1 pixel on

> > guider after 10/15 min)

> > -I tried more time to adjust the Dec backlash assuggested on the AP

> > site. The Dec warm gear shaft can be turn byhand from the gear side

> > (dismounting the first gear).

> > - Moving manually the gears I see a back-lash ofabout 1 tooth on the

> > first motor gear, moving with handpad I seeabout of less than 1 sec at

> > 0,5X to compensate a "1 tooth" backlash (soabout 7 arcsec to set the V2

> > driver?)

> > -I tried with 0,5X and 0,25X without improvement

> > -I tried 2s, 3s, and 4 sec, the seeing is 2,3"FWHM, with 4 s I see

> > better results, but still I have some Dec jumps

> >

> > Principally I tried to set "Auto" on the Decguide setting on PHD, but I

> > see a lot of jumps.

> > Selecting only one direction the performance isbetter, but I see some

> > jumps every 2-3 min. Also RA seems some times tobe correlated.

> > I attached three shot that show the graphs. Thered line is the Dec.

> > Some suggestion to solve?

> > Thanks a lot!

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Leonardo Priami

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have beenremoved]

> >

> >

>



----------------------------

#41650 Sep 4, 2013

Leonardo,I encountered exactly the same issue this past weekend with my older (600E) mount. I adjusted the RA and DEC mesh the previous night before I started imaging so it is possible that my mesh was set too tight leading to stiction. I believe this is what you refer to as elasticity.

In the meantime it might be worthwhile trying the following:1. Turn off DEC backlash compensation in PhD. It is possible that PhD is overcompensating for backlash by moving it too far.2. Try to set your DEC to north or south rather than auto. This way you aren't changing directions and having to deal with Backlash.



I was unable to test out the above since it got too windy (and then cloudy) after I discovered the issue.

I look forward to hearing your results..

--Ram







----------------------------

#41651 Sep 4, 2013

Peter,

I followed all that instruction. No problem of screw loosening wasbeing detected. All is fine.

Only a doubt about how much hard the worm gear should be turned byhand during pressure force setting. It is difficult to say andalso to understand.



Leonardo



Il 04/09/2013 22.19, topboxman2000 ha scritto:

 



Hi Leonardo,



I am not sure what else to say. Take a look at this to seeif that's what you are seeing:



www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/backlash2.pdf



Peter



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Leonardo Priamil.priami@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Peter,

> thanks for your help.

> About your suggestion:

> - I see (below the PHD screen) that the biggercorrection are around

> 150/300 ms, but only when after a few attempt themount still remain out.

>

> - About the exposure time I set to 3 or 4 seconds. Iagree. But still I

> see some jumps as you can see in the pictures I show.

>

> - I can't use the OAG in the main scope because Ihave only 4 mm from

> the 3"Wynne corrector and the filter wheel flange.

>

> - The FSQ is piggybacked but with very strong system.I would exclude

> flexure.

>

> What I suspect is some "elasticity" somewhere in thegear train that

> bring the motor to rotate a bit and no rotation tothe worm gear.

> I think that may occur some stick-slip phenomenabetween the worm gear

> and the wheel. After have accumulated sufficientforce, than the

> movement will take place, realizing too much movementthan requested and

> not when requested.

>

> What do you think about?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Leonardo

>

>

> Il 04/09/2013 17.13, topboxman2000 ha scritto:

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi Leonardo,

> >

> > Your Max Dec Duration of 600msec may be a littletoo high. Check the

> > log if Dec correction ever hit 600msec. A-Pmounts are too smooth and

> > normally have very little to no backlash so MaxDec Duration should

> > not have to be this high. If the seeing is notgood and setting Max

> > Dec Duration a little high could causeovershooting. Try set it to as

> > low as 75msec.

> >

> > Also the Min Motion might be a little too small.Small Min Motion can

> > send too many corrections to the mount.

> >

> > Because your mount is high end, I would set theguide exposure times

> > to at least 3 seconds to balance out the seeingand improve guide star

> > image (higher SNR).

> >

> > Can you use OAG for your bigger scope? You canget differential

> > flexure between guide and main scope. You saidthe guide scope is in

> > parallel with main scope, do you mean side byside or piggyback?

> >

> > Peter

> >

> > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Leonardo Priamil.priami@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Sorry, here the link to see the screenshots:

> > >

> > >www.lpriami.altervista.org/ImAstro/Service.html

> > >

> > > Thanks for help!

> > >

> > > Leonardo

> > >

> > > Il 04/09/2013 11.37, Leonardo Priami hascritto:

> > > >

> > > > Hi,

> > > > sorry to being here only when I'mfrustrated about something.

> > > >

> > > > Here about the guiding of my AP1200CP2.

> > > > The handpad has the 4.17 v firmwareand the last V2 driver.

> > > >

> > > > - I have a Newton-Wynne 300 mm f/3,8(1140 mm of focal length) with an

> > > > Apogee U16M and in parallel a FSQ106(530 mm) with a Apogee F9 (both

> > > > camera with 9 micron pixel).

> > > > - On the main telescope I have a FWHMstar about 1,3/1,5 pixel

> > (2,1/2,5

> > > > "), On the FSQ I have a FWHM about 1pixel.

> > > > - The guiding is performed by aStarlight Lodestar using a MMoag

> > > > off-axis on the FSQ. (3,3/3,4"/pixel).

> > > > With this parameters I see that I needto perform a guiding with a P-V

> > > > error less than 0,5 pixel (+/- 0,25pixel). If I found oval stars when

> > > > the error goes to 0,5 pixel.

> > > > - The cable connects directly theLodestar with the mount.

> > > > - The Lodestar doesn't work underMaximDL, neither with its driver,

> > > > neither with its Ascom driver (itperform a too short calibration even

> > > > if I set 40 sec on setting...)

> > > > -The guiding is performed with PHD

> > > > -The DEC balancing is perfect (may benecessary a little

> > un-balancing?)

> > > > -Polar alignment is very good (I havea Dec Drift of about 1 pixel on

> > > > guider after 10/15 min)

> > > > -I tried more time to adjust the Decbacklash as suggested on the AP

> > > > site. The Dec warm gear shaft can beturn by hand from the gear side

> > > > (dismounting the first gear).

> > > > - Moving manually the gears I see aback-lash of about 1 tooth on the

> > > > first motor gear, moving with handpadI see about of less than 1

> > sec at

> > > > 0,5X to compensate a "1 tooth"backlash (so about 7 arcsec to set

> > the V2

> > > > driver?)

> > > > -I tried with 0,5X and 0,25X withoutimprovement

> > > > -I tried 2s, 3s, and 4 sec, the seeingis 2,3" FWHM, with 4 s I see

> > > > better results, but still I have someDec jumps

> > > >

> > > > Principally I tried to set "Auto" onthe Dec guide setting on PHD,

> > but I

> > > > see a lot of jumps.

> > > > Selecting only one direction theperformance is better, but I see some

> > > > jumps every 2-3 min. Also RA seemssome times to be correlated.

> > > > I attached three shot that show thegraphs. The red line is the Dec.

> > > > Some suggestion to solve?

> > > > Thanks a lot!

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Leonardo Priami

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this messagehave been removed]

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>







----------------------------

#41652 Sep 4, 2013

Yes Ram!

During adjust mesh following the AP technical support, My doubt is reading this:

"After you have exposed worm shaft extension, you should be able to turn it by hand or with a pair of pliers with tape over the jaws. If you can turn it, please proceed to step 9. If the worm shaft extension is tight, please proceed to step 10."



This recomandation seems really to be not clear! By hand or with a pair of pliers ...I can generate a wide range of force!!



Could someone to be more precise to explain how to understand if our gear meshes are too tight or too loose?



Thanks a lot!



Leonardo



> Leonardo,

> I encountered exactly the same issue this past weekend with my older (600E)

> mount. I adjusted the RA and DEC mesh the previous night before I started

> imaging so it is possible that my mesh was set too tight leading to

> stiction. I believe this is what you refer to as elasticity.

>

> In the meantime it might be worthwhile trying the following:

> 1. Turn off DEC backlash compensation in PhD. It is possible that PhD is

> overcompensating for backlash by moving it too far.

> 2. Try to set your DEC to north or south rather than auto. This way you

> aren't changing directions and having to deal with Backlash.

>

>

> I was unable to test out the above since it got too windy (and then cloudy)

> after I discovered the issue.

>

> I look forward to hearing your results.

>

> --Ram

>

>

>

> On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Leonardo Priami l.priami@...> wrote:

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Hi Peter,

> > thanks for your help.

> > About your suggestion:

> > - I see (below the PHD screen) that the bigger correction are around

> > 150/300 ms, but only when after a few attempt the mount still remain out.

> >

> > - About the exposure time I set to 3 or 4 seconds. I agree. But still I

> > see some jumps as you can see in the pictures I show.

> >

> > - I can't use the OAG in the main scope because I have only 4 mm from the

> > 3"Wynne corrector and the filter wheel flange.

> >

> > - The FSQ is piggybacked but with very strong system. I would exclude

> > flexure.

> >

> > What I suspect is some "elasticity" somewhere in the gear train that bring

> > the motor to rotate a bit and no rotation to the worm gear.

> > I think that may occur some stick-slip phenomena between the worm gear and

> > the wheel. After have accumulated sufficient force, than the movement will

> > take place, realizing too much movement than requested and not when

> > requested.

> >

> > What do you think about?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Leonardo

> >

> >

> > Il 04/09/2013 17.13, topboxman2000 ha scritto:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi Leonardo,

> >

> > Your Max Dec Duration of 600msec may be a little too high. Check the log

> > if Dec correction ever hit 600msec. A-P mounts are too smooth and normally

> > have very little to no backlash so Max Dec Duration should not have to be

> > this high. If the seeing is not good and setting Max Dec Duration a little

> > high could cause overshooting. Try set it to as low as 75msec.

> >

> > Also the Min Motion might be a little too small. Small Min Motion can send

> > too many corrections to the mount.

> >

> > Because your mount is high end, I would set the guide exposure times to at

> > least 3 seconds to balance out the seeing and improve guide star image

> > (higher SNR).

> >

> > Can you use OAG for your bigger scope? You can get differential flexure

> > between guide and main scope. You said the guide scope is in parallel with

> > main scope, do you mean side by side or piggyback?

> >

> > Peter

> >

> > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Leonardo Priami l.priami@...>l.priami@...>wrote:

> > >

> > > Sorry, here the link to see the screen shots:

> > >

> > > www.lpriami.altervista.org/ImAstro/Service.html

> > >

> > > Thanks for help!

> > >

> > > Leonardo

> > >

> > > Il 04/09/2013 11.37, Leonardo Priami ha scritto:

> > > >

> > > > Hi,

> > > > sorry to being here only when I'm frustrated about something.

> > > >

> > > > Here about the guiding of my AP1200 CP2.

> > > > The handpad has the 4.17 v firmware and the last V2 driver.

> > > >

> > > > - I have a Newton-Wynne 300 mm f/3,8 (1140 mm of focal length) with an

> > > > Apogee U16M and in parallel a FSQ106 (530 mm) with a Apogee F9 (both

> > > > camera with 9 micron pixel).

> > > > - On the main telescope I have a FWHM star about 1,3/1,5 pixel (2,1/2,5

> > > > "), On the FSQ I have a FWHM about 1 pixel.

> > > > - The guiding is performed by a Starlight Lodestar using a MMoag

> > > > off-axis on the FSQ. (3,3/3,4 "/pixel).

> > > > With this parameters I see that I need to perform a guiding with a P-V

> > > > error less than 0,5 pixel (+/- 0,25 pixel). If I found oval stars when

> > > > the error goes to 0,5 pixel.

> > > > - The cable connects directly the Lodestar with the mount.

> > > > - The Lodestar doesn't work under MaximDL, neither with its driver,

> > > > neither with its Ascom driver (it perform a too short calibration even

> > > > if I set 40 sec on setting...)

> > > > -The guiding is performed with PHD

> > > > -The DEC balancing is perfect (may be necessary a little un-balancing?)

> > > > -Polar alignment is very good (I have a Dec Drift of about 1 pixel on

> > > > guider after 10/15 min)

> > > > -I tried more time to adjust the Dec backlash as suggested on the AP

> > > > site. The Dec warm gear shaft can be turn by hand from the gear side

> > > > (dismounting the first gear).

> > > > - Moving manually the gears I see a back-lash of about 1 tooth on the

> > > > first motor gear, moving with handpad I see about of less than 1 sec at

> > > > 0,5X to compensate a "1 tooth" backlash (so about 7 arcsec to set the

> > V2

> > > > driver?)

> > > > -I tried with 0,5X and 0,25X without improvement

> > > > -I tried 2s, 3s, and 4 sec, the seeing is 2,3" FWHM, with 4 s I see

> > > > better results, but still I have some Dec jumps

> > > >

> > > > Principally I tried to set "Auto" on the Dec guide setting on PHD, but

> > I

> > > > see a lot of jumps.

> > > > Selecting only one direction the performance is better, but I see some

> > > > jumps every 2-3 min. Also RA seems some times to be correlated.

> > > > I attached three shot that show the graphs. The red line is the Dec.

> > > > Some suggestion to solve?

> > > > Thanks a lot!

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Leonardo Priami

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>







----------------------------

#41653 Sep 4, 2013

Leonardo, Make the DEC worm mesh such that the gear on the worm is as easy to turn as possible (with fingers) while making sure you cannot feel the backlash on the axis (i.e. manually trying to move it with clutches tight).It might take some time to get it right but it does not need to be done often.

Parijat

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, l.priami@...> wrote:

Peter,

I followed all that instruction. No problem of screw loosening wasbeing detected. All is fine.

Only a doubt about how much hard the worm gear should be turned byhand during pressure force setting. It is difficult to say andalso to understand.



Leonardo



Il 04/09/2013 22.19, topboxman2000 ha scritto:

 



Hi Leonardo,



I am not sure what else to say. Take a look at this to seeif that's what you are seeing:



www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/backlash2.pdf



Peter



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Leonardo Priamil.priami@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Peter,

> thanks for your help.

> About your suggestion:

> - I see (below the PHD screen) that the biggercorrection are around

> 150/300 ms, but only when after a few attempt themount still remain out.

>

> - About the exposure time I set to 3 or 4 seconds. Iagree. But still I

> see some jumps as you can see in the pictures I show.

>

> - I can't use the OAG in the main scope because Ihave only 4 mm from

> the 3"Wynne corrector and the filter wheel flange.

>

> - The FSQ is piggybacked but with very strong system.I would exclude

> flexure.

>

> What I suspect is some "elasticity" somewhere in thegear train that

> bring the motor to rotate a bit and no rotation tothe worm gear.

> I think that may occur some stick-slip phenomenabetween the worm gear

> and the wheel. After have accumulated sufficientforce, than the

> movement will take place, realizing too much movementthan requested and

> not when requested.

>

> What do you think about?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Leonardo

>

>

> Il 04/09/2013 17.13, topboxman2000 ha scritto:

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi Leonardo,

> >

> > Your Max Dec Duration of 600msec may be a littletoo high. Check the

> > log if Dec correction ever hit 600msec. A-Pmounts are too smooth and

> > normally have very little to no backlash so MaxDec Duration should

> > not have to be this high. If the seeing is notgood and setting Max

> > Dec Duration a little high could causeovershooting. Try set it to as

> > low as 75msec.

> >

> > Also the Min Motion might be a little too small.Small Min Motion can

> > send too many corrections to the mount.

> >

> > Because your mount is high end, I would set theguide exposure times

> > to at least 3 seconds to balance out the seeingand improve guide star

> > image (higher SNR).

> >

> > Can you use OAG for your bigger scope? You canget differential

> > flexure between guide and main scope. You saidthe guide scope is in

> > parallel with main scope, do you mean side byside or piggyback?

> >

> > Peter

> >

> > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Leonardo Priamil.priami@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Sorry, here the link to see the screenshots:

> > >

> > >www.lpriami.altervista.org/ImAstro/Service.html

> > >

> > > Thanks for help!

> > >

> > > Leonardo

> > >

> > > Il 04/09/2013 11.37, Leonardo Priami hascritto:

> > > >

> > > > Hi,

> > > > sorry to being here only when I'mfrustrated about something.

> > > >

> > > > Here about the guiding of my AP1200CP2.

> > > > The handpad has the 4.17 v firmwareand the last V2 driver.

> > > >

> > > > - I have a Newton-Wynne 300 mm f/3,8(1140 mm of focal length) with an

> > > > Apogee U16M and in parallel a FSQ106(530 mm) with a Apogee F9 (both

> > > > camera with 9 micron pixel).

> > > > - On the main telescope I have a FWHMstar about 1,3/1,5 pixel

> > (2,1/2,5

> > > > "), On the FSQ I have a FWHM about 1pixel.

> > > > - The guiding is performed by aStarlight Lodestar using a MMoag

> > > > off-axis on the FSQ. (3,3/3,4"/pixel).

> > > > With this parameters I see that I needto perform a guiding with a P-V

> > > > error less than 0,5 pixel (+/- 0,25pixel). If I found oval stars when

> > > > the error goes to 0,5 pixel.

> > > > - The cable connects directly theLodestar with the mount.

> > > > - The Lodestar doesn't work underMaximDL, neither with its driver,

> > > > neither with its Ascom driver (itperform a too short calibration even

> > > > if I set 40 sec on setting...)

> > > > -The guiding is performed with PHD

> > > > -The DEC balancing is perfect (may benecessary a little

> > un-balancing?)

> > > > -Polar alignment is very good (I havea Dec Drift of about 1 pixel on

> > > > guider after 10/15 min)

> > > > -I tried more time to adjust the Decbacklash as suggested on the AP

> > > > site. The Dec warm gear shaft can beturn by hand from the gear side

> > > > (dismounting the first gear).

> > > > - Moving manually the gears I see aback-lash of about 1 tooth on the

> > > > first motor gear, moving with handpadI see about of less than 1

> > sec at

> > > > 0,5X to compensate a "1 tooth"backlash (so about 7 arcsec to set

> > the V2

> > > > driver?)

> > > > -I tried with 0,5X and 0,25X withoutimprovement

> > > > -I tried 2s, 3s, and 4 sec, the seeingis 2,3" FWHM, with 4 s I see

> > > > better results, but still I have someDec jumps

> > > >

> > > > Principally I tried to set "Auto" onthe Dec guide setting on PHD,

> > but I

> > > > see a lot of jumps.

> > > > Selecting only one direction theperformance is better, but I see some

> > > > jumps every 2-3 min. Also RA seemssome times to be correlated.

> > > > I attached three shot that show thegraphs. The red line is the Dec.

> > > > Some suggestion to solve?

> > > > Thanks a lot!

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Leonardo Priami

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this messagehave been removed]

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>







----------------------------

#41655 Sep 4, 2013

- The Lodestar doesn't work under MaximDL



There was a version of MaxIm that didn't work with Lodestar. Be sure you have the latest version of MaxIm. Of course, be sure you also have the latest driver for the Lodestar. But the Lodestar driver probably isn't your problem. As for PHD, I couldn't get it to work at all. Stick with MaxIm.



----------------------------

#41656 Sep 4, 2013

I'm surprised to hear you couldn't get Lodestar to work with PHD. It's my standard combo and have had no troubles with it ever.

Jerry

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 4, 2013, at 4:11 PM, "CurtisC" calypte@...> wrote:



 > - The Lodestar doesn't work under MaximDL



There was a version of MaxIm that didn't work with Lodestar. Be sure you have the latest version of MaxIm. Of course, be sure you also have the latest driver for the Lodestar. But the Lodestar driver probably isn't your problem. As for PHD, I couldn't get it to work at all. Stick with MaxIm.



----------------------------

#41659 Sep 4, 2013

Hi!

My actually version is 5.01, I will try with 5.10. It will bebetter use the standard driver or the Ascom driver.

My doubt is also that with CP2 I can not send multiple correction(AR and DEC) at the same time using camera relay (cable connectedbetween Lodestar and the mount). May it be a problem?



Thanks,



Leonardo





Il 05/09/2013 01.11, CurtisC ha scritto:

 > - The Lodestar doesn't work under MaximDL



There was a version of MaxIm that didn't work withLodestar. Be sure you have the latest version of MaxIm. Ofcourse, be sure you also have the latest driver for theLodestar. But the Lodestar driver probably isn't yourproblem. As for PHD, I couldn't get it to work at all.Stick with MaxIm.



----------------------------

#41661 Sep 5, 2013

There are several things that you can check and tighten up on the Dec gearbox. First make sure that the spur gear on the end of the worm shaft is tight and this requires that the setscrew is tight on the flat part of the worm shaft. Remove the gearbox cover plate to get to the spur geartrain. If the setscrew is even small amount loose, it will definitely cause your problem. Second, and quite important if the above did not solve the problem, is the end load bearings which hold the worm gear in place. There is a threaded washer at the end of the worm gear which can be tightened so that the worm is held more firmly in place. To do this requires that you remove the gearbox cover plate, then remove the two spur gears ( the large one and then the one which is attached to the end of the worm). Then with a spanner wrench, or two small pins (ends of small diameter drill bits work great for this), you can tighten this threaded washer. Check afterwards that the worm still turns easily by placing the spur gear back on and turning it with your fingers. It should turn smoothly with only small amount of lumpy feel.

Lastly, there are two setscrews on the inside of the gearbox which press against the two end load bearings. To access these, you will need to remove the entire gearbox from the mount and look for these setscrews. If they are loose, the bearings can move sideways, which will not only produce this delay effect during Dec guiding, but will also produce a very small but noticeable RA motion to the telescope. These two setscrews should be hand tightened, but be careful to not tighten so much that it impact the smoothness of the bearings. You can feel this by turning the gears by hand. You will notice a definite lumpy feel when these are too tight. Once all three of the above are adjusted, your mount will guide very smoothly and accurately in Dec. If you have any problem understanding what I have written, then please contact George at AP, and he can talk you thru these adjustments ( I am in Hawaii on vacation right now, but I did forward this to him, so he is aware of your problem). It may also help to put some fresh light lithium grease on the Dec worm and run it back and forth a few times at 1200x. Less friction in Dec means easier reversals. Rolando ( on Kauai at the moment)



-----Original Message-----

From: Leonardo Priami l.priami@...>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:04 pm

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Frustrating guiding problem





Hi Peter,

thanks for your help.

About your suggestion:

- I see (below the PHD screen) that the bigger correction are around 150/300 ms, but only when after a few attempt the mount still remain out.



- About the exposure time I set to 3 or 4 seconds. I agree. But still I see some jumps as you can see in the pictures I show.



- I can't use the OAG in the main scope because I have only 4 mm from the 3"Wynne corrector and the filter wheel flange.



- The FSQ is piggybacked but with very strong system. I would exclude flexure.



What I suspect is some "elasticity" somewhere in the gear train that bring the motor to rotate a bit and no rotation to the worm gear.

I think that may occur some stick-slip phenomena between the worm gear and the wheel. After have  accumulated sufficient force, than the movement will take place, realizing too much movement than requested and not when requested.



What do you think about?



Thanks,



Leonardo





Il 04/09/2013 17.13, topboxman2000 ha scritto:

 



Hi Leonardo,



Your Max Dec Duration of 600msec may be a little too high. Check the log if Dec correction ever hit 600msec. A-P mounts are too smooth and normally have very little to no backlash so Max Dec Duration should not have to be this high. If the seeing is not good and setting Max Dec Duration a little high could cause overshooting. Try set it to as low as 75msec.



Also the Min Motion might be a little too small. Small Min Motion can send too many corrections to the mount.



Because your mount is high end, I would set the guide exposure times to at least 3 seconds to balance out the seeing and improve guide star image (higher SNR).



Can you use OAG for your bigger scope? You can get differential flexure between guide and main scope. You said the guide scope is in parallel with main scope, do you mean side by side or piggyback?



Peter



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Leonardo Priami l.priami@...> wrote:

>

> Sorry, here the link to see the screen shots:

>

> www.lpriami.altervista.org/ImAstro/Service.html

>

> Thanks for help!

>

> Leonardo

>

> Il 04/09/2013 11.37, Leonardo Priami ha scritto:

> >

> > Hi,

> > sorry to being here only when I'm frustrated about something.

> >

> > Here about the guiding of my AP1200 CP2.

> > The handpad has the 4.17 v firmware and the last V2 driver.

> >

> > - I have a Newton-Wynne 300 mm f/3,8 (1140 mm of focal length) with an

> > Apogee U16M and in parallel a FSQ106 (530 mm) with a Apogee F9 (both

> > camera with 9 micron pixel).

> > - On the main telescope I have a FWHM star about 1,3/1,5 pixel (2,1/2,5

> > "), On the FSQ I have a FWHM about 1 pixel.

> > - The guiding is performed by a Starlight Lodestar using a MMoag

> > off-axis on the FSQ. (3,3/3,4 "/pixel).

> > With this parameters I see that I need to perform a guiding with a P-V

> > error less than 0,5 pixel (+/- 0,25 pixel). If I found oval stars when

> > the error goes to 0,5 pixel.

> > - The cable connects directly the Lodestar with the mount.

> > - The Lodestar doesn't work under MaximDL, neither with its driver,

> > neither with its Ascom driver (it perform a too short calibration even

> > if I set 40 sec on setting...)

> > -The guiding is performed with PHD

> > -The DEC balancing is perfect (may be necessary a little un-balancing?)

> > -Polar alignment is very good (I have a Dec Drift of about 1 pixel on

> > guider after 10/15 min)

> > -I tried more time to adjust the Dec backlash as suggested on the AP

> > site. The Dec warm gear shaft can be turn by hand from the gear side

> > (dismounting the first gear).

> > - Moving manually the gears I see a back-lash of about 1 tooth on the

> > first motor gear, moving with handpad I see about of less than 1 sec at

> > 0,5X to compensate a "1 tooth" backlash (so about 7 arcsec to set the V2

> > driver?)

> > -I tried with 0,5X and 0,25X without improvement

> > -I tried 2s, 3s, and 4 sec, the seeing is 2,3" FWHM, with 4 s I see

> > better results, but still I have some Dec jumps

> >

> > Principally I tried to set "Auto" on the Dec guide setting on PHD, but I

> > see a lot of jumps.

> > Selecting only one direction the performance is better, but I see some

> > jumps every 2-3 min. Also RA seems some times to be correlated.

> > I attached three shot that show the graphs. The red line is the Dec.

> > Some suggestion to solve?

> > Thanks a lot!

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Leonardo Priami

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> >

>







----------------------------

#41662 Sep 5, 2013

Hi Peter, Thank you for posting this. It is part of the adjustments that can be made to clear up any Dec guiding issues. Rolando





-----Original Message-----

From: topboxman2000 pnagy@...>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:20 pm

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Frustrating guiding problem



Hi Leonardo,

I am not sure what else to say. Take a look at this to see if that's what you are seeing:

www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/backlash2.pdf

Peter

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Leonardo Priami l.priami@...> wrote:>> Hi Peter,> thanks for your help.> About your suggestion:> - I see (below the PHD screen) that the bigger correction are around > 150/300 ms, but only when after a few attempt the mount still remain out.> > - About the exposure time I set to 3 or 4 seconds. I agree. But still I > see some jumps as you can see in the pictures I show.> > - I can't use the OAG in the main scope because I have only 4 mm from > the 3"Wynne corrector and the filter wheel flange.> > - The FSQ is piggybacked but with very strong system. I would exclude > flexure.> > What I suspect is some "elasticity" somewhere in the gear train that > bring the motor to rotate a bit and no rotation to the worm gear.> I think that may occur some stick-slip phenomena between the worm gear > and the wheel. After have accumulated sufficient force, than the > movement will take place, realizing too much movement than requested and > not when requested.> > What do you think about?> > Thanks,> > Leonardo> > > Il 04/09/2013 17.13, topboxman2000 ha scritto:> >> >> >> > Hi Leonardo,> >> > Your Max Dec Duration of 600msec may be a little too high. Check the > > log if Dec correction ever hit 600msec. A-P mounts are too smooth and > > normally have very little to no backlash so Max Dec Duration should > > not have to be this high. If the seeing is not good and setting Max > > Dec Duration a little high could cause overshooting. Try set it to as > > low as 75msec.> >> > Also the Min Motion might be a little too small. Small Min Motion can > > send too many corrections to the mount.> >> > Because your mount is high end, I would set the guide exposure times > > to at least 3 seconds to balance out the seeing and improve guide star > > image (higher SNR).> >> > Can you use OAG for your bigger scope? You can get differential > > flexure between guide and main scope. You said the guide scope is in > > parallel with main scope, do you mean side by side or piggyback?> >> > Peter> >> > --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Leonardo Priami l.priami@> wrote:> > >> > > Sorry, here the link to see the screen shots:> > >> > > www.lpriami.altervista.org/ImAstro/Service.html> > >> > > Thanks for help!> > >> > > Leonardo> > >> > > Il 04/09/2013 11.37, Leonardo Priami ha scritto:> > > >> > > > Hi,> > > > sorry to being here only when I'm frustrated about something.> > > >> > > > Here about the guiding of my AP1200 CP2.> > > > The handpad has the 4.17 v firmware and the last V2 driver.> > > >> > > > - I have a Newton-Wynne 300 mm f/3,8 (1140 mm of focal length) with an> > > > Apogee U16M and in parallel a FSQ106 (530 mm) with a Apogee F9 (both> > > > camera with 9 micron pixel).> > > > - On the main telescope I have a FWHM star about 1,3/1,5 pixel > > (2,1/2,5> > > > "), On the FSQ I have a FWHM about 1 pixel.> > > > - The guiding is performed by a Starlight Lodestar using a MMoag> > > > off-axis on the FSQ. (3,3/3,4 "/pixel).> > > > With this parameters I see that I need to perform a guiding with a P-V> > > > error less than 0,5 pixel (+/- 0,25 pixel). If I found oval stars when> > > > the error goes to 0,5 pixel.> > > > - The cable connects directly the Lodestar with the mount.> > > > - The Lodestar doesn't work under MaximDL, neither with its driver,> > > > neither with its Ascom driver (it perform a too short calibration even> > > > if I set 40 sec on setting...)> > > > -The guiding is performed with PHD> > > > -The DEC balancing is perfect (may be necessary a little > > un-balancing?)> > > > -Polar alignment is very good (I have a Dec Drift of about 1 pixel on> > > > guider after 10/15 min)> > > > -I tried more time to adjust the Dec backlash as suggested on the AP> > > > site. The Dec warm gear shaft can be turn by hand from the gear side> > > > (dismounting the first gear).> > > > - Moving manually the gears I see a back-lash of about 1 tooth on the> > > > first motor gear, moving with handpad I see about of less than 1 > > sec at> > > > 0,5X to compensate a "1 tooth" backlash (so about 7 arcsec to set > > the V2> > > > driver?)> > > > -I tried with 0,5X and 0,25X without improvement> > > > -I tried 2s, 3s, and 4 sec, the seeing is 2,3" FWHM, with 4 s I see> > > > better results, but still I have some Dec jumps> > > >> > > > Principally I tried to set "Auto" on the Dec guide setting on PHD, > > but I> > > > see a lot of jumps.> > > > Selecting only one direction the performance is better, but I see some> > > > jumps every 2-3 min. Also RA seems some times to be correlated.> > > > I attached three shot that show the graphs. The red line is the Dec.> > > > Some suggestion to solve?> > > > Thanks a lot!> > > >> > > > Regards,> > > >> > > > Leonardo Priami> > > >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >>



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----------------------------

#41674 Sep 5, 2013

Hi Rolando,

You are very very kind and helpful!!

I will try all as soon as possible.



Thanks!



Leonardo

Il 05/09/2013 09.05, chris1011@... ha scritto:

 

There are several things thatyou can check and tighten up on the Dec gearbox. Firstmake sure that the spur gear on the end of the wormshaft is tight and this requires that the setscrew istight on the flat part of the worm shaft. Remove thegearbox cover plate to get to the spur geartrain.If the setscrew is even small amount loose, it willdefinitely cause your problem.

 Second, and quiteimportant if the above did not solve the problem, isthe end load bearings which hold the worm gear inplace. There is a threaded washer at the end of theworm gear which can be tightened so that the worm isheld more firmly in place. To do this requires thatyou remove the gearbox cover plate, then remove thetwo spur gears ( the large one and then the one whichis attached to the end of the worm). Then with aspanner wrench, or two small pins (ends of smalldiameter drill bits work great for this), you cantighten this threaded washer. Check afterwards thatthe worm still turns easily by placing the spur gearback on and turning it with your fingers. It shouldturn smoothly with only small amount of lumpy feel.

Lastly, there are two setscrews on the inside of thegearbox which press against the two end load bearings.To access these, you will need to remove the entiregearbox from the mount and look for these setscrews. Ifthey are loose, the bearings can move sideways, whichwill not only produce this delay effect during Decguiding, but will also produce a very small butnoticeable RA motion to the telescope. These twosetscrews should be hand tightened, but be careful tonot tighten so much that it impact the smoothness of thebearings. You can feel this by turning the gears byhand. You will notice a definite lumpy feel when theseare too tight. Once all three of the above are adjusted, your mountwill guide very smoothly and accurately in Dec. If youhave any problem understanding what I have written, thenplease contact George at AP, and he can talk you thruthese adjustments ( I am in Hawaii on vacation rightnow, but I did forward this to him, so he is aware ofyour problem). It may also help to put some fresh light lithiumgrease on the Dec worm and run it back and forth a fewtimes at 1200x. Less friction in Dec means easierreversals. Rolando ( on Kauai at the moment)



-----Original Message-----

From: Leonardo Priami l.priami@...>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:04 pm

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Frustrating guiding problem





Hi Peter,

thanks for your help.

About your suggestion:

- I see (below the PHD screen) that the biggercorrection are around 150/300 ms, but only whenafter a few attempt the mount still remain out.



- About the exposure time I set to 3 or 4 seconds.I agree. But still I see some jumps as you can seein the pictures I show.



- I can't use the OAG in the main scope because Ihave only 4 mm from the 3"Wynne corrector and thefilter wheel flange.



- The FSQ is piggybacked but with very strongsystem. I would exclude flexure.



What I suspect is some "elasticity" somewhere inthe gear train that bring the motor to rotate abit and no rotation to the worm gear.

I think that may occur some stick-slip phenomenabetween the worm gear and the wheel. After have accumulated sufficient force, than the movementwill take place, realizing too much movement thanrequested and not when requested.



What do you think about?



Thanks,



Leonardo





Il 04/09/2013 17.13, topboxman2000 ha scritto:

 



Hi Leonardo,



Your Max Dec Duration of 600msec may be alittle too high. Check the log if Deccorrection ever hit 600msec. A-P mounts aretoo smooth and normally have very little to nobacklash so Max Dec Duration should not haveto be this high. If the seeing is not good andsetting Max Dec Duration a little high couldcause overshooting. Try set it to as low as75msec.



Also the Min Motion might be a little toosmall. Small Min Motion can send too manycorrections to the mount.



Because your mount is high end, I would setthe guide exposure times to at least 3 secondsto balance out the seeing and improve guidestar image (higher SNR).



Can you use OAG for your bigger scope? You canget differential flexure between guide andmain scope. You said the guide scope is inparallel with main scope, do you mean side byside or piggyback?



Peter



--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com,Leonardo Priami l.priami@...>wrote:

>

> Sorry, here the link to see the screenshots:

>

> www.lpriami.altervista.org/ImAstro/Service.html

>

> Thanks for help!

>

> Leonardo

>

> Il 04/09/2013 11.37, Leonardo Priami hascritto:

> >

> > Hi,

> > sorry to being here only when I'mfrustrated about something.

> >

> > Here about the guiding of my AP1200CP2.

> > The handpad has the 4.17 v firmwareand the last V2 driver.

> >

> > - I have a Newton-Wynne 300 mm f/3,8(1140 mm of focal length) with an

> > Apogee U16M and in parallel a FSQ106(530 mm) with a Apogee F9 (both

> > camera with 9 micron pixel).

> > - On the main telescope I have aFWHM star about 1,3/1,5 pixel (2,1/2,5

> > "), On the FSQ I have a FWHM about 1pixel.

> > - The guiding is performed by aStarlight Lodestar using a MMoag

> > off-axis on the FSQ. (3,3/3,4"/pixel).

> > With this parameters I see that Ineed to perform a guiding with a P-V

> > error less than 0,5 pixel (+/- 0,25pixel). If I found oval stars when

> > the error goes to 0,5 pixel.

> > - The cable connects directly theLodestar with the mount.

> > - The Lodestar doesn't work underMaximDL, neither with its driver,

> > neither with its Ascom driver (itperform a too short calibration even

> > if I set 40 sec on setting...)

> > -The guiding is performed with PHD

> > -The DEC balancing is perfect (maybe necessary a little un-balancing?)

> > -Polar alignment is very good (Ihave a Dec Drift of about 1 pixel on

> > guider after 10/15 min)

> > -I tried more time to adjust the Decbacklash as suggested on the AP

> > site. The Dec warm gear shaft can beturn by hand from the gear side

> > (dismounting the first gear).

> > - Moving manually the gears I see aback-lash of about 1 tooth on the

> > first motor gear, moving withhandpad I see about of less than 1 sec at

> > 0,5X to compensate a "1 tooth"backlash (so about 7 arcsec to set the V2

> > driver?)

> > -I tried with 0,5X and 0,25X withoutimprovement

> > -I tried 2s, 3s, and 4 sec, theseeing is 2,3" FWHM, with 4 s I see

> > better results, but still I havesome Dec jumps

> >

> > Principally I tried to set "Auto" onthe Dec guide setting on PHD, but I

> > see a lot of jumps.

> > Selecting only one direction theperformance is better, but I see some

> > jumps every 2-3 min. Also RA seemssome times to be correlated.

> > I attached three shot that show thegraphs. The red line is the Dec.

> > Some suggestion to solve?

> > Thanks a lot!

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Leonardo Priami

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this messagehave been removed]

> >

> >

>







----------------------------

#41675 Sep 5, 2013

Hi Leonardo,If my memory serves me correctly, you will need MaximDL version 5.15 or later for proper support of the Lodestar.  Prior to this release there were a number of problems.  You might check with DL or SX to confirm. Regards,Kurt

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi!

My actually version is 5.01, I will try with 5.10. It will bebetter use the standard driver or the Ascom driver.

My doubt is also that with CP2 I can not send multiple correction(AR and DEC) at the same time using camera relay (cable connectedbetween Lodestar and the mount). May it be a problem?



Thanks,



Leonardo





Il 05/09/2013 01.11, CurtisC ha scritto:

 > - The Lodestar doesn't work under MaximDL



There was a version of MaxIm that didn't work withLodestar. Be sure you have the latest version of MaxIm. Ofcourse, be sure you also have the latest driver for theLodestar. But the Lodestar driver probably isn't yourproblem. As for PHD, I couldn't get it to work at all.Stick with MaxIm.



----------------------------

#51081 Feb 15 9:17 AM

Apply car wax or wipe with DW40. Stainless steel will have small inclusions which can rust, but these are easily cleaned off. Rolando  -----Original Message-----

From: mallincamusa@... [ap-gto] ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2016 11:11 am

Subject: [ap-gto] AP1600 Counterweight Rusting





There has been a discussion recently on the group about the need to cover/protect the AP mount from the elements.  I have my AP1600 in a domed observatory for the last 10 months.  I cover the scope/mounts with beach towels for dust and then place a large desert storm cover (purchased for a 20" Dob) over the towels.  I had to slit the cover to allow it to drape over the system and I use Velcro straps to attempt to close up the slit.  In addition I have a shop light with a 25 watt bulb right behind the counterweights figuring that the slight heat generated will rise into the desert storm cover and help keep everything dry.  This works fairly well in doing so.

However I have noticed that the counterweights are showing very small rust pitting.  This is probably due to them being machined from 416 stainless instead of 316,  The counterweight shaft must be 316SS as it is not showing the rust pitting likethe counterweights.

Which leads to my question - what, if anything, can be applied to the counterweights to stop further rust pitting?

Yours truly,

Jack Huerkamp



----------------------------

#51082 Feb 15 9:24 AM

Rolando,  Thank you.. I will give that a try.  Yours truly,  Jack  Jack HuerkampJack's Astro Accessories, LLC.38388 Pine StreeetPearl River, LA 70452985-863-2165 (Home)985-445-5063 (Mobile)mallincamusa@...www.mallincamusa.com      From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 11:17 AMTo: ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [ap-gto] AP1600 Counterweight Rusting



----------------------------

#51084 Feb 15 9:40 AM

+1 for the car wax.

Whenever I buy a new mount (including my AP mounts) I separate the easily removable parts and apply a good quality car wax.

I like the carnuba waxes. They're a bit more work but I believe that they protect longer.

Not only are you waxing when the surface is pristine but it's a great way to get acquainted with your mount and appreciate the quality of its construction.



dan kowall

photonhunter.com





--------------- On Mon, 2/15/16, chris1011@... [ap-gto] ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Subject: Re: [ap-gto] AP1600 Counterweight Rusting

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Date: Monday, February 15, 2016, 12:17 PM



Apply car wax or wipe

with DW40. Stainless steel will have small inclusions which

can rust, but these are easily cleaned off.



.



Rolando



.



.



-----Original Message-----



From: mallincamusa@... [ap-gto]

ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>



To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>



Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2016 11:11 am



Subject: [ap-gto] AP1600 Counterweight Rusting





There has been a discussion recently on the group

about the need to cover/protect the AP mount from the

elements.. I have my AP1600 in a domed observatory for the

last 10 months.. I cover the scope/mounts with beach towels

for dust and then place a large desert storm cover

(purchased for a 20" Dob) over the towels.. I had to

slit the cover to allow it to drape over the system and I

use Velcro straps to attempt to close up the slit.. In

addition I have a shop light with a 25 watt bulb right

behind the counterweights figuring that the slight heat

generated will rise into the desert storm cover and help

keep everything dry.. This works fairly well in doing

so.





However I have noticed that the counterweights are

showing very small rust pitting.. This is probably due to

them being machined from 416 stainless instead of 316,. The

counterweight shaft must be 316SS as it is not showing the

rust pitting like

the counterweights.











Which leads to my question - what, if anything, can be

applied to the counterweights to stop further rust

pitting?











Yours truly,











Jack Huerkamp







Posted by: chris1011@...









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----------------------------

#51085 Feb 15 9:52 AM

Dan,  Thanks.. I will opt for the carnuba car wax as it should last longer than WD40.  Yours truly,  Jack  Jack HuerkampJack's Astro Accessories, LLC.38388 Pine StreeetPearl River, LA 70452985-863-2165 (Home)985-445-5063 (Mobile)mallincamusa@...www.mallincamusa.com      From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 11:40 AMTo: ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [ap-gto] AP1600 Counterweight Rusting



----------------------------

#51087 Feb 15 11:08 AM

Hey Jack,

I use Wenol metal polish and have never had an issue.

Paul

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 1:45 PM, 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto] ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

.Jack,.... You also don.t want to leave any WD-40 anywhere nearoptics at the mount, or anywhere else for that matter. It could be left on yourhands or fingers, and I was told by tech support at the WD-40 manufacturer, thatit is .mildly corrosive. and less of a lubricant, but more of being a solventWD-40. stands for .Water Displacement-40..I read that there is also a WD-40 .Long Term. version, but others have findthat in marine use, it was less effective on boats than the regular WD-40.... If you get some on your hands from the counterweight andthen handle or clean your eyeglasses or other lenses, it will cut their coating,and worse if they are the modern plastic types. I once sprayed some on Plexiglasand on a painted computer cabinet (soaked an old stuck-on label to remove it) .it dulled both surfaces. Now I am very cautious on where I apply it..... However if you Google .WD-40 plastics and paint. youwill get a variety of answers. WD Corp does warn to stay away from some plastics. Plexiglas and Styrene seem to be a couple, as I found, do get affected.Wonder if our. plastic eyeglass lenses fall into these plasticscategories? Cleaning optical coated eyeglasses just with Windex. is bad,since it gradually peels off the ant-scratch and other coatings . imagine what aWD-40 fingerprint might do...From the WD-40 FAQ:***********"WD-40 Multi-Use Product can be used on just about everything. It is safeto use on metal, rubber, wood and plastic. It can also be applied to paintedmetal surfaces without harming the paint..Polycarbonate and clear polystyrene plastic are among the few surfaces onwhich to avoid using a petroleum-based product like WD-40 Multi-Use Product."

Source(s): WD-40 corporate FAQ

******The plastic parts insidepotentiometers (the controls behind the knobs you turn ;) have been turnedinto goo by using WD-40 to clean the carbon tracks. Automotive parts aregoing to be made of plastics that won t suffer from contact with the fuelused.

Koz. 6 months ago



----------------------------

#51088 Feb 15 11:23 AM

Jack, When Ihad my boat, I used "Naval Jelly" to remove the rust spots from SS.  Thisis very powerful nasty stuff and you don't want to get any on anything else --including your hands. The SSmarine BBQ maker Magma also sells a liquid SS cleaner in bottles for their SSBBQs.  It smells the same as Naval Jelly.  I think it's OxalicAcid.  Nasty stuff, but it sure cleans up SS. Woody 

There has been a discussion recently on the group about the need tocover/protect the AP mount from the elements.  I have my AP1600 in adomed observatory for the last 10 months.  I cover the scope/mounts withbeach towels for dust and then place a large desert storm cover (purchased fora 20" Dob) over the towels.  I had to slit the cover to allow it to drapeover the system and I use Velcro straps to attempt to close up the slit. In addition I have a shop light with a 25 watt bulb right behind thecounterweights figuring that the slight heat generated will rise into thedesert storm cover and help keep everything dry.  This works fairly wellin doing so.

However I have noticed that the counterweights are showing very smallrust pitting.  This is probably due to them being machined from 416stainless instead of 316,  The counterweight shaft must be 316SS as it isnot showing the rust pi! tting like the counterweights.

Which leads to my question - what, if anything, can be applied to thecounterweights to stop further rust pitting?

Yours truly,

Jack Huerkamp



----------------------------

#51089 Feb 15 11:30 AM

Idon't think much of anything lasts longer than WD-40.  Remember, that stuffwas invented to prevent rust from Navy ships!  The "W" stands for "Water",the "D" stands for "Displacement" and the "40" was the 40th formulation theytried.  Fish oil is a major ingredient. Onceyou remove the rust with something like Naval Jelly, WD-40 should keep itrust-free.  But of course, WD-40 is all slimy. Woody 

-----Original Message-----From:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent:Monday, February 15, 2016 9:53 AMTo:ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [ap-gto] AP1600 CounterweightRusting

 Dan,

Thanks. I will opt for the carnuba car wax as it should last longer thanWD40.

Yourstruly,

Jack

JackHuerkampJack'sAstro Accessories, LLC.38388Pine StreeetPearlRiver, LA 70452985-863-2165(Home)985-445-5063(Mobile)mallincamusa@...www.mallincamusa.com



From:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent:Monday, February 15, 2016 11:40 AMTo:ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [ap-gto] AP1600 CounterweightRusting



----------------------------

#51090 Feb 15 12:16 PM

Woody,  I have used naval jelly before and as you said it is nasty stuff.  I think I will pass on using this stuff anywhere near my mount.  Thanks.  Jack  Jack HuerkampJack's Astro Accessories, LLC.38388 Pine StreeetPearl River, LA 70452985-863-2165 (Home)985-445-5063 (Mobile)mallincamusa@...www.mallincamusa.com      From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 1:24 PMTo: ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [ap-gto] AP1600 Counterweight Rusting







----------------------------

#51091 Feb 15 12:18 PM

Woody,  Because of the "slim" left by WD40, I will pass on it.  I would hate to be bumping into the shaft/weights in the dark and getting the residue on me - let alone guests visiting the observatory.  Yours turly,  Jack  Jack HuerkampJack's Astro Accessories, LLC.38388 Pine StreeetPearl River, LA 70452985-863-2165 (Home)985-445-5063 (Mobile)mallincamusa@...www.mallincamusa.com      From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 1:30 PMTo: ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [ap-gto] AP1600 Counterweight Rusting



----------------------------

#51092 Feb 15 12:29 PM

Joe,  Thanks for the heads up.  Jack  From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 12:45 PMTo: ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [ap-gto] AP1600 Counterweight Rusting



----------------------------

#51093 Feb 15 12:35 PM

WD-40 is evil and will ruin many plastics and optical spacings,etc.  And it leeches into EVERYTHING. In fact over the years there have been a number of police officersthat have died because they lubricated their side arms with WD-40, which leechedinto the primers of their rounds and broke down the priming compound, making therounds inert.  Pretty-bad situation to be in during ashoot-out. WD-40 is a penetrant, NOT a lubricant.  In fact it will mixitself with most lubricants and ruin them. My suggestion is to use Flitz metal polish and follow up with aquality car wax.  Christopher EricksonConsulting EngineerSummitKineticsWaikoloa, HI 96738www.summitkinetics.com

 



From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com[mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 10:18AMTo: ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [ap-gto] AP1600Counterweight Rusting



Woody,  Becauseof the "slim" left by WD40, I will pass on it.  I would hate to be bumpinginto the shaft/weights in the dark and getting the residue on me - let aloneguests visiting the observatory.  Yoursturly,  Jack  JackHuerkampJack'sAstro Accessories, LLC.38388Pine StreeetPearlRiver, LA 70452985-863-2165(Home)985-445-5063(Mobile)mallincamusa@...www.mallincamusa.com      From:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday,February 15, 2016 1:30 PMTo:ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [ap-gto] AP1600 CounterweightRusting



----------------------------

#51099 Feb 15 1:47 PM

Jack, Well,I was only suggesting on the CWs and CW shaft -- REMOVED from the mount! SS can take it. Woody 

Woody,

I haveused naval jelly before and as you said it is nasty stuff.  I think Iwill pass on using this stuff anywhere near my mount.

Thanks.

Jack

JackHuerkampJack'sAstro Accessories, LLC.38388Pine StreeetPearlRiver, LA 70452985-863-2165 (Home)985-445-5063(Mobile)mallincamusa@...www.mallincamusa.com



From:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent:Monday, February 15, 2016 1:24 PMTo:ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [ap-gto] AP1600 CounterweightRusting



----------------------------

#51100 Feb 15 1:47 PM

Christopher,  Thank you and everyone else who responded.  I just ordered a tube of Flitz and it will be here Wednesday so I can try cleaning the counterweights before waxing them.  I already have the carnauba wax.  Yours truly,  Jack  Jack HuerkampJack's Astro Accessories, LLC.38388 Pine StreeetPearl River, LA 70452985-863-2165 (Home)985-445-5063 (Mobile)mallincamusa@...www.mallincamusa.com          From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 2:35 PMTo: ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [ap-gto] AP1600 Counterweight Rusting



----------------------------

#51101 Feb 15 1:48 PM

Iagree.  No WD-40 on my stuff.  Silicone is badenough. Woody 

Woody,

Becauseof the "slim" left by WD40, I will pass on it.  I would hate to bebumping into the shaft/weights in the dark and getting the residue on me - letalone guests visiting the observatory.

Yoursturly,

Jack

JackHuerkampJack'sAstro Accessories, LLC.38388Pine StreeetPearlRiver, LA 70452985-863-2165 (Home)985-445-5063(Mobile)mallincamusa@...www.mallincamusa.com

 From:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent:Monday, February 15, 2016 1:30 PMTo:ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [ap-gto] AP1600 CounterweightRusting



----------------------------

#51102 Feb 15 1:51 PM

Woody,  I understand.  The problem is to remove the CW and shaft, I have to remove the scopes.  I want to minimize the effort involved.  It will take longer however to do one CW and part of the shaft at a time.  Yours truly,  Jack  Jack HuerkampJack's Astro Accessories, LLC.38388 Pine StreeetPearl River, LA 70452985-863-2165 (Home)985-445-5063 (Mobile)mallincamusa@...www.mallincamusa.com      From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 3:48 PMTo: ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [ap-gto] AP1600 Counterweight Rusting



----------------------------

#51103 Feb 15 1:53 PM

Paul,  Thanks for suggesting Wenol.. I had aleady ordered the Flitz before reading your email.. If the first one doesnt work, I will try the Wenol.  Yours truly,  Jack  Jack HuerkampJack's Astro Accessories, LLC.38388 Pine StreeetPearl River, LA 70452985-863-2165 (Home)985-445-5063 (Mobile)mallincamusa@...www.mallincamusa.com      From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 1:08 PMTo: ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [ap-gto] AP1600 Counterweight Rusting



----------------------------

#51115 Feb 15 4:34 PM

Nope! Not a drop of fish oil in WD-40... Bob



----------------------------

#55813 Feb 22 6:56 AM

Eric,

I purchased a used 900 that had a lot of rust stains on 3 counterweights and I used this product which turned them into brand new looking. All that's needed is a little elbow grease or buffing wheel.

www.amazon.com/Mothers-05212-California-Chrome-Polish/dp/B006VU37AS



Good luck,Keith







----------------------------

#55816 Feb 22 7:32 AM

Not sure how well this will work, but it shouldn't damage anything... the liquid version of Bar Keepers Friend (here at Amazon)

www.amazon.com/Bar-Keepers-Friend-Stainless-Porcelain/dp/B00B28ZYPU/ref=sr_1_4_s_it?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1487777025&sr=1-4&keywords=bar+keepers+friend

I use it in the kitchen all of the time in particular on SS pots and pans (All-Clad); IIRC All-Clad may recommend this on their website  and it doesn't damage the "mirror-finish" of the SS. if small "swirl marks" are a concern, then the most important thing is to not use a "harsh" scotch brite type of pad..IIRC the green ones are fairly harsh, I think the blue ones are less so. I just use a sponge.

Steve H

 *This e-mail was made with 100% recycled (and recyclable) electrons. No trees were destroyed and no animals were harmed.Though the ozone may have been damaged.



From: "eja24601@... [ap-gto]" ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 8:43 AM Subject: [ap-gto] Rust....

 It was my fault....

I jury rigged a non-AP counterweight, sandwiching it between two AP counterweights. Turns out that non-AP weight started to rust, and the rust stained the AP counterweights.

I tried cleaning the stains off with WD-40; some came off but most are pretty stubborn. I found a few remedies online suggesting baking soda (usually kitchen and bath surfaces).

Any suggestions/recommendations on what I can use to clean the rust off?

Thanks,Eric



----------------------------

#55818 Feb 22 11:04 AM

Eric, I'mnot familiar with the products a couple of guys have suggested andrecommended, but just about all the non-abrasive SS and metal rust-removers I'veused contain various amounts of Oxalic Acid as their main activeingredient.  And although Oxalic Acid gets rust off SS very well (sometimesone wipe and 15 seconds is enough) -- it's highly corrosive to mostother materials and quickly eats any finish off most other metals --including chrome plating, paint, aluminum anodizing, etc. Soalthough it's great stuff on SS, keep it off anything with a finish -- unlessyou intend to refinish that material.  And if you get some on anothermetal, rinse it completely and then re-finish immediately. And Ialso highly recommend wearing rubber gloves when using any product containingoxalic acid.  Once you smell oxalic acid, you'll recognize itforever.  It has a very distinctive odor. Woody 

-----Original Message-----From:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent:Wednesday, February 22, 2017 6:43 AMTo:ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: [ap-gto]Rust....

 It was my fault....

I jury rigged a non-AP counterweight, sandwiching it between two APcounterweights. Turns out that non-AP weight started to rust, and the ruststained the AP counterweights.

I tried cleaning the stains off with WD-40; some came off but most arepretty stubborn. I found a few remedies online suggesting baking soda (usuallykitchen and bath surfaces).

Any suggestions/recommendations on what I can use to clean the rustoff?

Thanks,Eric



----------------------------

#55820 Feb 22 11:43 AM

Thanks for all the tips, everyone! Good to know. 

Eric



----------------------------

#55822 Feb 22 12:47 PM

Just FYI I have tried Evaporust.. I was skeptical, but it does what it says.

www.evapo-rust.com/product-info/faqs/



There is no acid and I can stick my hand in without it dissolving away (it uses some sort of chelating agent).. I put painted and chromed objects in and everything was spared.. What can happen is that heavily rusted objects may have had their chrome or paint damaged already, so cleaning the rust off may reveal the underlying metal.. My results were close to what they showed in their video, and I have no financial or other interest in it.. The problem is (of course) that it gets quite expensive to submerge large pieces.. The soaking technique that they say does not really work according to a lot of people.

Derek



----------------------------

#55823 Feb 22 1:09 PM

Derek, Thanksfor the report.  Sounds like I need to look into thisstuff. OxalicAcid most definitely dissolves and ruins finishes -- even brand new thick chromeplating.  I can see a mark on my Moen kitchen faucet where some of thestuff dripped onto the spout.  Within 30 seconds it had eaten enough chromeoff that I can still see the mar in the finish. Woody 

-----Original Message-----From:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent:Wednesday, February 22, 2017 12:47 PMTo:ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [ap-gto]Rust....

 Just FYI I have tried Evaporust.  I was skeptical, but itdoes what it says.

www.evapo-rust.com/product-info/faqs/



There is no acid and I can stick my hand in without it dissolving away(it uses some sort of chelating agent).  I put painted and chromedobjects in and everything was spared.  What can happen is that heavilyrusted objects may have had their chrome or paint damaged already, so cleaningthe rust off may reveal the underlying metal.  My results were close towhat they showed in their video, and I have no financial or other interest init.  The problem is (of course) that it gets quite expensive to submergelarge pieces.  The soaking technique that they say does not really workaccording to a lot of people.

Derek



----------------------------

#55825 Feb 22 2:00 PM

Guys,      Why are we talking about CHROME? The rust problem hasto, do with STAINLESS STEEL.     Actually, I would be interested in someone at APexplaining just WHY ...  SS rusts at all? I thought it was an alloyimpervious to rust. Can.t be just the iron content since it is  tightly.alloyed. into the mix. Maybe the alloy chosen for the cwts, isn.t a terriblygood one to begin with . perhaps better for its weight to size (density), ratherthan rust susceptibility. Joe







----------------------------

#55826 Feb 22 2:16 PM

The talk was about being careful when treating stainless steel andnot getting the chemicals on other surfaces, like chrome. Stainless steel blends still have iron in them (in the form of carbonsteel) and they still rust.  Very generally speaking, the rust usually isonly several molecules thick and is effectivelyinvisible. And yes, stainless steel has chromium in it too. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel 

ChristopherEricksonConsulting EngineerSummit KineticsWaikoloa, HI96738www.summitkinetics.com

 



From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com[mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 201712:01 PMTo: ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [ap-gto]Rust....



Guys,      Why are we talking about CHROME? The rust problem hasto, do with STAINLESS STEEL.     Actually, I would be interested in someone at APexplaining just WHY ...  SS rusts at all? I thought it was an alloyimpervious to rust. Can’t be just the iron content since it is  tightly“alloyed” into the mix. Maybe the alloy chosen for the cwts, isn’t a terriblygood one to begin with – perhaps better for its weight to size (density), ratherthan rust susceptibility. Joe



----------------------------

#55828 Feb 22 3:44 PM

As Chris has pointed out, stainless steel can rust.  It should be more correctly called stain resistant, or rust resistant steel.  The SS we use for our counterweightsand shafts is NOT a cheap alloy chosen for density rather than quality.  It is basically 18-10 stainless, but needs to be a machinable alloy for our purposes.  (18-10 signifies ~ 18% Chromium and ~ 10% Nickel by weight)  It is not a “marine” grade which wouldinclude Molybdenum for added corrosion resistance.  Marine grades are very difficult to machine. 

 In addition to the link Chris provided, there is more info here:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_steel_grades

 Mag. 7 Skies!  Howard HedlundAstro-Physics, Inc.Phone: 815-282-1513www.astro-physics.comPlease include this e-mail with your response.  PConsider the environment before printing this e-mail.  

 From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]

Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 10:16 PM

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Rust....



----------------------------

#55829 Feb 22 3:56 PM

Joe, 1) Imention chrome as a cautionary warning.  I also mentioned that oxalic acideats at aluminum finishes because most of the Mach1's exterior surfaces arealuminum.  So I mentioned that as a cautionary precautionalso. 2)There are many SS alloys.  Most are at least somewhat magnetic, some arenot.  Different.alloys have different rust and corrosionproperties.  A couple of alloys are extremely corrosion resistant-- to salt water and various acids and caustic chemicals.  Those alloys areusually used in items that will be in contact with food and caustic chemicals orimmersed in sea-water.  However, even some of those alloys stain with theamount of acid found in tomatoes.  Other alloys do rust abit. When Iowned a sail boat, I had to routinely (monthly) wipe down the SS hardware andrigging with a rust-remover to remove rust streaks. Myexperience has also been that the least magnetic and most chemical and rustresistant alloys are also the softer, weaker alloys.  The harder alloys aremore prone to rusting a little. Woody 

-----Original Message-----From:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent:Wednesday, February 22, 2017 2:01 PMTo:ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [ap-gto]Rust....

 Guys,      Why are we talking about CHROME? The rust problem hasto, do with STAINLESS STEEL.     Actually, I would be interested in someone at APexplaining just WHY ...  SS rusts at all? I thought it was an alloyimpervious to rust. Can’t be just the iron content since it is  tightly“alloyed” into the mix. Maybe the alloy chosen for the cwts, isn’t a terriblygood one to begin with – perhaps better for its weight to size (density),rather than rust susceptibility. Joe



----------------------------

#55831 Feb 22 4:29 PM

Hey Joe,Here is an article that explains it better than I could, but I live near the ocean and all stainless eventually rusts. 

www.polymersolutions.com/blog/why-does-stainless-steel-rust/

Scott Hammondswww.creatorsview.comSent from my iPhone 

On Feb 22, 2017, at 5:00 PM, 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto] ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



 Guys,      Why are we talking about CHROME? The rust problem hasto, do with STAINLESS STEEL.     Actually, I would be interested in someone at APexplaining just WHY ...  SS rusts at all? I thought it was an alloyimpervious to rust. Can.t be just the iron content since it is  tightly.alloyed. into the mix. Maybe the alloy chosen for the cwts, isn.t a terriblygood one to begin with . perhaps better for its weight to size (density), ratherthan rust susceptibility. Joe



----------------------------

#55833 Feb 22 4:50 PM

JoeDuring part of my career in the oil industry, I spent time as a corrosion specialist for downhole and surface oilfield facilities. I will attempt to explain how metal corrosion works especially as it applies to stainless steels and aluminum.Corrosion of regular iron and steel alloys produces a corrosion product called iron oxide. Iron Oxide forms a very soft, porous and powdery coating that flakes off easily from the metal substrate. This constant flaking exposes more raw metal to oxygen which results in further corrosion. The process continues till all the iron is converted to iron oxide. However metals like stainless steel and aluminum resist corrosion by a proceed known as "passivation". Passivation works because as the metal corrodes (reacts with oxygen) at its surface, the resulting corrosion product forms a very molecularly tight, hard clear protective coating on the surface of the metal which excludes oxygen which then prevents further corrosion. In the case of Aluminum, the corrosion product is know as aluminum oxide or Alundum. Alundum is extremely hard which is why it is used in grinding wheels and sandpaper. The passivation process only works if there is a continuous supply of oxygen to replenish the protective oxide layer as it gets damaged or is worn off. Stainless steels especially the lower grades will corrode if one installs aluminum or SS in an oxygen poor environment.  Ask any boat owner especially if the boat is kept on saltwater, who has ever tried to remove a ss bolt from an aluminum fixture after years of use. 

As you know, stainless steel comes in many grades depending on their alloy composition and Chromium content. The lower grades like 304 have a low Chrome content and do exhibit a tendency to show some surface rust. It doesn't affect their serviceability and is cosmetic only. The higher grades like 316 or 18-8 do not exhibit this trait. I suspect 304 is the grade that AP uses for the counterweights. If you clean the surface rust off with a cleaner, you will remove the protective oxide layer and the metal surface will oxidize again until the protective layer reforms. Unfortunately this re-oxidation process will result in the reappearance of the rust look. Just the nature of the beast! If one is looking for a totally non corroding finish, one would need to look at the higher stainless grades or if cost was no object, Monel. It really all comes down to cost and what is the intended use of the finished product.

I hope this has been of some help.

Don Anderson

--------------- On Wed, 2/22/17, 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto] ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Rust.... To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com Received: Wednesday, February 22, 2017, 3:00 PM MessageGuys,     Why are we talking about CHROME? The rust problem has to, do with STAINLESS STEEL.     Actually, I would be interested in someone at AP explaining just WHY ...  SS rusts at all? I thought it was an alloy impervious to rust. Can.t be just the iron content since it is  tightly .alloyed. into the mix. Maybe the alloy chosen for the cwts, isn.t a terribly good one to begin with . perhaps better for its weight to size (density), rather than rust susceptibility. Joe







----------------------------

#55834 Feb 22 4:59 PM

and then there is always titanium...only 3-4x the cost of SS.







Bryan



----------------------------

#55835 Feb 22 6:14 PM

I live in india and to avoid shipping cost of counterweights I just made them in my friend s lathe . I made 6 of 10 lb weights , 3 of them SS and three ordinary steel and chromed them . Both have lasted 5 yrs , and haven't shown any discolouration yet . Only costed me usd 50 for six of them Suresh 

Sent from my iPhone

On 23-Feb-2017, at 12:34 AM, 'Woody Schlom' woody@... [ap-gto] ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



 Eric, I'mnot familiar with the products a couple of guys have suggested andrecommended, but just about all the non-abrasive SS and metal rust-removers I'veused contain various amounts of Oxalic Acid as their main activeingredient.  And although Oxalic Acid gets rust off SS very well (sometimesone wipe and 15 seconds is enough) -- it's highly corrosive to mostother materials and quickly eats any finish off most other metals --including chrome plating, paint, aluminum anodizing, etc. Soalthough it's great stuff on SS, keep it off anything with a finish -- unlessyou intend to refinish that material.  And if you get some on anothermetal, rinse it completely and then re-finish immediately. And Ialso highly recommend wearing rubber gloves when using any product containingoxalic acid.  Once you smell oxalic acid, you'll recognize itforever.  It has a very distinctive odor. Woody 

-----Original Message-----From:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent:Wednesday, February 22, 2017 6:43 AMTo:ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: [ap-gto]Rust....

 It was my fault....

I jury rigged a non-AP counterweight, sandwiching it between two APcounterweights. Turns out that non-AP weight started to rust, and the ruststained the AP counterweights.

I tried cleaning the stains off with WD-40; some came off but most arepretty stubborn. I found a few remedies online suggesting baking soda (usuallykitchen and bath surfaces).

Any suggestions/recommendations on what I can use to clean the rustoff?

Thanks,Eric



----------------------------

#55836 Feb 22 6:55 PM

Twice now I have machined adapters that allow Celestron counterweightshafts and counterweights to be attached to AP mounts.  I did this forfriends who, after playing with my AP mounts, knew they had to get onetoo.  And every penny they saved on the initial investment made it easierto get permission from their S.O!  So thanks to Astromart and my adaptersthey are now proud owners of (used) AP mounts! Suresh, I hope you can get your AP mount problems fixedsoon!  Christopher EricksonConsulting EngineerSummitKineticsWaikoloa, HI 96738www.summitkinetics.com

 



From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com[mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 20174:14 PMTo: ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [ap-gto]Rust....



I live in india and to avoid shipping cost of counterweights I just madethem in my friend s lathe . I made 6 of 10 lb weights , 3 of them SS and threeordinary steel and chromed them . Both have lasted 5 yrs , and haven't shown anydiscolouration yet . Only costed me usd 50 for six of them Suresh 

Sent from my iPhone

On 23-Feb-2017, at 12:34 AM, 'Woody Schlom' woody@... [ap-gto] ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>wrote:

 Eric, I'mnot familiar with the products a couple of guys have suggested andrecommended, but just about all the non-abrasive SS and metal rust-removersI've used contain various amounts of Oxalic Acid as their main activeingredient.  And although Oxalic Acid gets rust off SS very well(sometimes one wipe and 15 seconds is enough) -- it's highlycorrosive to most other materials and quickly eats any finish off mostother metals -- including chrome plating, paint, aluminum anodizing,etc. Soalthough it's great stuff on SS, keep it off anything with a finish -- unlessyou intend to refinish that material.  And if you get some on anothermetal, rinse it completely and then re-finish immediately. AndI also highly recommend wearing rubber gloves when using any productcontaining oxalic acid.  Once you smell oxalic acid, you'll recognize itforever.  It has a very distinctive odor. Woody 

-----Original Message-----From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]

Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 6:43 AMTo: ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject:[ap-gto] Rust....

 It was my fault....

I jury rigged a non-AP counterweight, sandwiching it between two APcounterweights. Turns out that non-AP weight started to rust, and the ruststained the AP counterweights.

I tried cleaning the stains off with WD-40; some came off but most arepretty stubborn. I found a few remedies online suggesting baking soda(usually kitchen and bath surfaces).

Any suggestions/recommendations on what I can use to clean the rustoff?

Thanks,Eric



----------------------------

#55837 Feb 22 7:05 PM

Hi Christopher,     I've mailed Howard, George ( he's travelling right ) . I'm sure a solution will be found Suresh

Sent from my iPhone

On 23-Feb-2017, at 8:25 AM, 'Christopher Erickson' christopher.k.erickson@... [ap-gto] ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



 Twice now I have machined adapters that allow Celestron counterweightshafts and counterweights to be attached to AP mounts.  I did this forfriends who, after playing with my AP mounts, knew they had to get onetoo.  And every penny they saved on the initial investment made it easierto get permission from their S.O!  So thanks to Astromart and my adaptersthey are now proud owners of (used) AP mounts! Suresh, I hope you can get your AP mount problems fixedsoon!  Christopher EricksonConsulting EngineerSummitKineticsWaikoloa, HI 96738www.summitkinetics.com

 



From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com[mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 20174:14 PMTo: ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [ap-gto]Rust....



I live in india and to avoid shipping cost of counterweights I just madethem in my friend s lathe . I made 6 of 10 lb weights , 3 of them SS and threeordinary steel and chromed them . Both have lasted 5 yrs , and haven't shown anydiscolouration yet . Only costed me usd 50 for six of them Suresh 

Sent from my iPhone

On 23-Feb-2017, at 12:34 AM, 'Woody Schlom' woody@... [ap-gto] ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>wrote:

 Eric, I'mnot familiar with the products a couple of guys have suggested andrecommended, but just about all the non-abrasive SS and metal rust-removersI've used contain various amounts of Oxalic Acid as their main activeingredient.  And although Oxalic Acid gets rust off SS very well(sometimes one wipe and 15 seconds is enough) -- it's highlycorrosive to most other materials and quickly eats any finish off mostother metals -- including chrome plating, paint, aluminum anodizing,etc. Soalthough it's great stuff on SS, keep it off anything with a finish -- unlessyou intend to refinish that material.  And if you get some on anothermetal, rinse it completely and then re-finish immediately. AndI also highly recommend wearing rubber gloves when using any productcontaining oxalic acid.  Once you smell oxalic acid, you'll recognize itforever.  It has a very distinctive odor. Woody 

-----Original Message-----From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]

Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 6:43 AMTo: ap-gto@yahoogroups.comSubject:[ap-gto] Rust....

 It was my fault....

I jury rigged a non-AP counterweight, sandwiching it between two APcounterweights. Turns out that non-AP weight started to rust, and the ruststained the AP counterweights.

I tried cleaning the stains off with WD-40; some came off but most arepretty stubborn. I found a few remedies online suggesting baking soda(usually kitchen and bath surfaces).

Any suggestions/recommendations on what I can use to clean the rustoff?

Thanks,Eric







----------------------------

#55844 Feb 22 10:36 PM

Don,     You make an interesting point about .replenishment ofoxygen. being the trigger: .The passivation process only works if there is a continuous supply ofoxygen to replenish the protective oxide layer as it gets damaged or is wornoff. Stainless steels especially the lower grades will corrode if one installsaluminum or SS in an oxygen poor environment..

     As I recall,  the AP cwts I received with apurchase of a used mount, showed .staining. (assumed to be rust), only on theflat end-FACES of those counterweights. The outer rounded surface looked fine.If indeed my recollection of a few years ago  is correct, that supportsyour point in that the cwts were probably stacked tightly together, so there wasless access for oxygen to those inner surfaces for protective passivation,compared to the outer sides.     Can anyone confirm that their rusted cwts were NOTstained on their rounded surfaces? Indeed, the top and bottom cwt would be stainfree at the bottom and top of the stack of weights, but rusted where theysandwiched together.Doesn.t really matter since those (inner) surfaces are .out-of-sight.anyway. To prevent rust staining anyway, one could place a toothpick as a spacerbetween cwts to aid passivation,  before locking them down on theshaft.     I polished them with some kind of cleaner I had at hand,but it didn.t do much to remove the stain pattern. Now I know cleaners to try,the next time.     One other thing . based on your comment. I suppose itmight be a poor idea to use any kind of automotive (bumper) chrome cleaner,since theoretically it may also have a wax protective coating, which would block the passivation process by sealing out the oxygen. Joe



----------------------------

#55846 Feb 22 11:45 PM

Sandpaper works great. Fine grit 600 grade.

Rolando



----------------------------

#55847 Feb 22 11:54 PM

The counterweights are 303 stainless. It's a good free-machining material. I don't know why you think it's inferior. It's a standard type used in many applications.

Rolando



----------------------------

#55848 Feb 23 12:08 AM

We don't use 304, it is very difficult to machine. We use 303 which is free-cutting and does not wear the cutting tool nearly as much.

Roland Christen



----------------------------

#55850 Feb 23 5:23 AM

Stainless steel stains less than steel! But it is not perfect as has been noted. There are numerous grades of stainless steel and they all have some potential for rust and other oxides.



Where even slight rust films are a concern stainless steel is passivated following manufacture. This is basically a process where the outer layers of the material are deliberately oxidised (rusted, but not just the iron component). Following passivation a non reactive metallic film several atoms thick coats the material and this makes the surface much more durable and rust resistant



For example my surgical instruments and stainless steel implants are passivated. Provided they are cared for properly they do not rust. But they need proper care. Use of abrasive cleaners will damage the passivated layer; corrosive salts (left e.g. by blood being allowed to dry on the instruments) will penetrate the passive layer and cause rusting. If cared for properly, over time the passivated layer becomes thicker and more resistant to emergent rust.



So, for example if you allow your finger prints to remain on the counter weights or shaft a slight a rust film may form due to the high concentration of salt in your perspiration. The issue is cosmetic only so proper passivation of these items is not sensible. But it can be done and I have attached a link:





www.mmsonline.com/articles/how-to-passivate-stainless-steel-parts



Ultimately to protect these SS items from your body salts and other causes of corrosion a coating of car wax may be beneficial. Or let a nice patina develop - it will add character to your instrument!



Regards,



Len.



----------------------------

#55854 Feb 23 9:21 AM

JoeCheck out the marine supply stores such as West Marine. They sell stainless steel cleaner/polishes that do a good job cleaning SS. I used it on my sail boat and it worked great.

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 22, 2017, at 11:36 PM, 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto] ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



 Don,     You make an interesting point about .replenishment ofoxygen. being the trigger: .The passivation process only works if there is a continuous supply ofoxygen to replenish the protective oxide layer as it gets damaged or is wornoff. Stainless steels especially the lower grades will corrode if one installsaluminum or SS in an oxygen poor environment..

     As I recall,  the AP cwts I received with apurchase of a used mount, showed .staining. (assumed to be rust), only on theflat end-FACES of those counterweights. The outer rounded surface looked fine.If indeed my recollection of a few years ago  is correct, that supportsyour point in that the cwts were probably stacked tightly together, so there wasless access for oxygen to those inner surfaces for protective passivation,compared to the outer sides.     Can anyone confirm that their rusted cwts were NOTstained on their rounded surfaces? Indeed, the top and bottom cwt would be stainfree at the bottom and top of the stack of weights, but rusted where theysandwiched together.Doesn.t really matter since those (inner) surfaces are .out-of-sight.anyway. To prevent rust staining anyway, one could place a toothpick as a spacerbetween cwts to aid passivation,  before locking them down on theshaft.     I polished them with some kind of cleaner I had at hand,but it didn.t do much to remove the stain pattern. Now I know cleaners to try,the next time.     One other thing . based on your comment. I suppose itmight be a poor idea to use any kind of automotive (bumper) chrome cleaner,since theoretically it may also have a wax protective coating, which would block the passivation process by sealing out the oxygen. Joe







----------------------------

#60268 Jan 2

I am having an issue with the thrust washer (this would be the washer at the end of the worm, that threads into the motor housing assembly, it is flat with two holes 180 degrees apart) for the DEC worm on my 1200gto, it will loosen up for some odd reason resulting in DEC backlash.  When you move the OTA in DEC, even in park three it goes "chunk chunk".  I had this problem several years ago and adjusting this washer fixed the problem.

Many years ago either George or Howard at AP told me how to adjust it.  Of course I have forgotten how to do this so asking if one of the AP wizards might chime in.

A few related questions...is this adjustment done with the motor housing off the mount?I would assume done in park 3 (counterweight shaft pointed down to ground, OTA pointed towards north pole) if done on mount.

Thanks, Mike



----------------------------

#60273 Jan 2

This is actually a nut, not a washer. It is screwed into the housing and is used to clamp the worm between the two worm bearings, which then removes the end play. Use a small spanner wrench and turn the nut clockwise until it seats fully (until you can't turn it any more). You can put a small amount of torque on the nut but don't go overboard. Here at the factory we torque them to 10 inch-lb (force of 1 lb at 10 inches), which makes them snug without over-stressing the ball bearings.



Rolando







-----Original Message-----

From: mshade@... [ap-gto] ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

To: ap-gto ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Tue, Jan 2, 2018 7:49 am

Subject: [ap-gto] 1200GTO DEC worm thrust washer adjustment





I am having an issue with the thrust washer (this would be the washer at the end of the worm, that threads into the motor housing assembly, it is flat with two holes 180 degrees apart) for the DEC worm on my 1200gto, it will loosen up for some odd reason resulting in DEC backlash.  When you move the OTA in DEC, even in park three it goes "chunk chunk".  I had this problem several years ago and adjusting this washer fixed the problem.



Many years ago either George or Howard at AP told me how to adjust it.  Of course I have forgotten how to do this so asking if one of the AP wizards might chime in.



A few related questions...is this adjustment done with the motor housing off the mount?I would assume done in park 3 (counterweight shaft pointed down to ground, OTA pointed towards north pole) if done on mount.



p>Thanks, Mike


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