Re: [ap-gto] 1200 pointing problem


May 15, 2001

 


----------------------------

#2464 May 15, 2001

I have had my new 1200 out several times but have just now started

to use the pointing. I've got a problem with this that I can't solve.

Here's the particulars:

The mount is polar aligned very closely. I'm using location

1 with the date, time, Lat. and Longitude all correctly set.

I'm using 2 star alignment. When I goto the 2nd. star

it's relatively close. When I go back to the 1st star, it's

dead on.

When I pick a M #, NGC #, or R.A. and Dec. everything

goes nuts. I'm getting below Horizon error messages or the

mount starts going to where the object isn't. The mount won't goto

any M or NGC object at all.

Any ideas?

Colt Bednorz



----------------------------

#2465 May 15, 2001

In a message dated 5/15/2001 6:56:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

colt@... writes:



> When I pick a M #, NGC #, or R.A. and Dec. everything

> goes nuts. I'm getting below Horizon error messages or the

> mount starts going to where the object isn't. The mount won't goto

> any M or NGC object at all.

>



If your stars do center correctly, then the mount itself is fine. The mount

will go wherever it is told to go. It gets RA and DEC co-ordinates from the

keypad. The keypad is a seperate entity from the mount. In other words, if

the keypad data is correct, then the mount will go to the correct place in

the sky. You can verify this for yourself by slewing to a number of stars in

the "Stars" menu. Does the mount pick them up reasonably well? If so, the

mount itself is fine. Now go to the "Tour" mode. Enter "Objects per

constellation". The constellation of the last star you visited will be listed

on the display. Pick one of the M or NGC objects and press GoTo. Does the

mount slew to the object? If not, then it is possible that the deep sky

object database is corrupted (even though the star list might be ok). You can

verify the data is correct by looking at the RA and DEC co-ordinates of the

requested object and comparing it with your sky map.



One other thing you might check. Did you enter the time correctly? It is easy

to enter 8:00:00 instead of 20:00:00 for 8pm. The first number would, of

course be 8 AM. How about time zone and daylight savings? (it is zero now).



Can you tell me what your exact time, date and location says on your display

after you go thru an initial startup (any time of day is fine). For the time

data, I need the entry that tells GMT and LST also. This way I can tell if

you have something wrong in those entries.



Chances are the mount and keypad are fine, and you are doing something wrong

in the setup.



One thing that is very important is to set your time, time zone and location

properly so the mount can determine the above hour (Local Sidereal Time)

correctly. This allows the mount to know where the horizons are, and where to

switch sides. If it is set way off (say more than 1 hour) it is likely that

you can screw up your initial alignment if you pick the first star too close

to the zenith. If you pick a star to start with near the zenith in the east,

for instance, but because of a time error or location error on your part, the

mount has calculated that this star is already past the zenith, it will

assume you have your telescope pointing west instead of east. Then all for

subsequent objects the mount will try to slew the scope underneath the mount,

and the scope will run into the pier. For those who understant why this

happens, give yourselves a GOLD STAR. For those who do not, re-read the

manual.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#2467 May 15, 2001

Roland,

The last part of your answer seems to be similar

to what I saw in a couple of cases. I had to stop

the goto slewing before it hit the pier, and it was trying to go

under the mount.

Tonight should be clear and I'll attempt to run through things

again. I'll verify the time etc. as well. I think that this is probably

the problem. I have a feeling that nothing is corrupted, but I'll

check R.A. and DEC coordinates tonight. I did try pointing to

M-81 and the mount slewed to the north and to approximately

where M-81 could have been if it was 6 to 12 hours later than it

was. I'll print out your answer and take it home this evening.

Thank you for your quick and very thorough answer.

Colt Bednorz



chris1011@... wrote:

> In a message dated 5/15/2001 6:56:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> colt@... writes:

>

> > When I pick a M #, NGC #, or R.A. and Dec. everything

> > goes nuts. I'm getting below Horizon error messages or the

> > mount starts going to where the object isn't. The mount won't goto

> > any M or NGC object at all.

> >

>

> If your stars do center correctly, then the mount itself is fine. The mount

> will go wherever it is told to go. It gets RA and DEC co-ordinates from the

> keypad. The keypad is a seperate entity from the mount. In other words, if

> the keypad data is correct, then the mount will go to the correct place in

> the sky. You can verify this for yourself by slewing to a number of stars in

> the "Stars" menu. Does the mount pick them up reasonably well? If so, the

> mount itself is fine. Now go to the "Tour" mode. Enter "Objects per

> constellation". The constellation of the last star you visited will be listed

> on the display. Pick one of the M or NGC objects and press GoTo. Does the

> mount slew to the object? If not, then it is possible that the deep sky

> object database is corrupted (even though the star list might be ok). You can

> verify the data is correct by looking at the RA and DEC co-ordinates of the

> requested object and comparing it with your sky map.

>

> One other thing you might check. Did you enter the time correctly? It is easy

> to enter 8:00:00 instead of 20:00:00 for 8pm. The first number would, of

> course be 8 AM. How about time zone and daylight savings? (it is zero now).

>

> Can you tell me what your exact time, date and location says on your display

> after you go thru an initial startup (any time of day is fine). For the time

> data, I need the entry that tells GMT and LST also. This way I can tell if

> you have something wrong in those entries.

>

> Chances are the mount and keypad are fine, and you are doing something wrong

> in the setup.

>

> One thing that is very important is to set your time, time zone and location

> properly so the mount can determine the above hour (Local Sidereal Time)

> correctly. This allows the mount to know where the horizons are, and where to

> switch sides. If it is set way off (say more than 1 hour) it is likely that

> you can screw up your initial alignment if you pick the first star too close

> to the zenith. If you pick a star to start with near the zenith in the east,

> for instance, but because of a time error or location error on your part, the

> mount has calculated that this star is already past the zenith, it will

> assume you have your telescope pointing west instead of east. Then all for

> subsequent objects the mount will try to slew the scope underneath the mount,

> and the scope will run into the pier. For those who understant why this

> happens, give yourselves a GOLD STAR. For those who do not, re-read the

> manual.

>

> Roland Christen

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/







----------------------------

#2468 May 15, 2001

In a message dated 5/15/2001 11:17:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

chris1011@... writes:



snip

> One other thing you might check. Did you enter the time correctly? It is

> easy

> to enter 8:00:00 instead of 20:00:00 for 8pm. The first number would, of

> course be 8 AM. How about time zone and daylight savings? (it is zero now).

>



Roland is zero correct for daylight savings time? On page 5 of my V2.6

manual it reads to enter a 1 for daylight saving time.



Colt, I just received my AP 900 a couple of weeks ago. I had a pointing

problem the first night. I checked the setup data over many times before

I discovered the problem. I had set my longitude for East instead of West.

Amazing how sometimes you can look at the mistake and not see it!



Mike Hood







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#2469 May 15, 2001

A built in GPS receiver would be nice..... Something else for Roland's ToDo

list....



Gilles





At 12:32 PM 5/15/01 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 5/15/2001 11:17:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

>chris1011@... writes:

>

> snip

>

> > One other thing you might check. Did you enter the time correctly? It is

> > easy

> > to enter 8:00:00 instead of 20:00:00 for 8pm. The first number would, of

> > course be 8 AM. How about time zone and daylight savings? (it is zero

> now).

> >

>

>Roland is zero correct for daylight savings time? On page 5 of my V2.6

>manual it reads to enter a 1 for daylight saving time.

>

>Colt, I just received my AP 900 a couple of weeks ago. I had a pointing

>problem the first night. I checked the setup data over many times before

>I discovered the problem. I had set my longitude for East instead of West.

>Amazing how sometimes you can look at the mistake and not see it!

>

>Mike Hood

>

>

>

>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

>see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

>

>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



----------------------------

#2470 May 15, 2001

In a message dated 5/15/2001 9:33:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, MHVega@...

writes:



> Roland is zero correct for daylight savings time? On page 5 of my V2.6

> manual it reads to enter a 1 for daylight saving time.

>

>



Summer is zero, winter is 1.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#2471 May 15, 2001

Roland:

Are you saying that the manual is wrong? I don't think so because I followed

the manual (page 5, item 4d) and set daylight savings to "1" for now and I'm

getting fine pointing on both the 900 and the 1200.

Bert



Bert Katzung

katzung1@...

www.astronomy-images.com

----- Original Message -----

From: chris1011@...>

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Tuesday, 15 May, 2001 10:03 AM

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1200 pointing problem





> In a message dated 5/15/2001 9:33:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

MHVega@...

> writes:

>

>

> > Roland is zero correct for daylight savings time? On page 5 of my V2.6

> > manual it reads to enter a 1 for daylight saving time.

> >

> >

>

> Summer is zero, winter is 1.

>

> Roland Christen

>



----------------------------

#2472 May 15, 2001

In a message dated 5/15/2001 11:03:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

katzung1@... writes:



> Are you saying that the manual is wrong? I



I said it backwards, didn't I. 3 lashes with a wet noodle.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#2473 May 15, 2001

on 5/15/01 14:27, chris1011@... at chris1011@... wrote:

> I said it backwards, didn't I. 3 lashes with a wet noodle.



Only 3?



Hey! Who moved the decimal point???



;-)



Mark



----------------------------

#2477 May 16, 2001

A built in GPS receiver would be nice..... Something else for Roland's ToDo

> list...



I really don't need to own any more GPS receivers. It would be Just Fine

if the mount or keypad could simply parse NMEA sentences which are

emitted from pretty much all of the existing GPS receivers on the market.

These contain the time, location, heading :-) etc and sould save the extra

space and cost required for a dedicated GPS receiver. You'd simply

set up the mount, plug your cheap handheld GPS receiver into the mount

for a few seconds and you'd be done.



louie



----------------------------

#2478 May 16, 2001

Roland,

I had several problems with my set up numbers that I fixed

(I think), but still the pointing isn't correct, and the problem is

the same as before.

Here are my key pad numbers

Lat W 096 48 00

long N 32 47 00

time - 06

Day light savings time - 1

controller time 21 25 12 ( for 9:25P.M. last night)

Date 5-15-2001

Site #1 Irving, Texas

Again the 2 star calibration was o.k.

After doing this I went back to the 1st. star Arcturus

and tried the tour for Bootes. I went to eta Boots

in the star selection and the mount slewed to the N.W.

I think it said the following:

R.A. 01 -119:16

Dec 68 20 15

None of the tour objects would work either. I got the

below Horizon error message like before, or I got object pointing

over in the North way away from the constalation area.

Prior to this I didn't have the time zone number entered

and the time setting was off by an hour as was the D.Sav. time

selection not selected. I fixed this I think and re booted the system

along with a new 2 star calibration procedure. Polar alignment

was dead on before I started any calibration.

I hope that you can see some obvious error in my set up parameters.

Thanks for your help

Colt Bednorz







----------------------------

#2479 May 16, 2001

----- Original Message -----

From: "Colt Bednorz" colt@...>

> R.A. 01 -119:16

> Dec 68 20 15



Hi Colt,



This sounds suspiciously like the problem I had. My problem is The only fix

was to send in the keypad to be reprogrammed. Take a look at message #1601

in the archive.



I don't know how they get scrambled like that. I hope it's not static as I

live in the desert southwest where static is a way of life! :)



----------------------------

#2481 May 16, 2001

----- Original Message -----

From: "Jeffrey D. Gortatowsky" jgortatows@...>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Colt Bednorz" colt@...>

> > R.A. 01 -119:16

> > Dec 68 20 15

>

> Hi Colt,

>

> This sounds suspiciously like the problem I had. My problem is The only

fix

^^^^^^^^^^^^^



I am not sure where the "My problem is" came from (too fast editing), but

let me be crystal clear, I had _no_ problem sending the controller back to

AP. Indeed the service was excellent!



Clear skies,

Jeff



----------------------------

#2482 May 16, 2001

In a message dated 5/16/2001 9:24:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

colt@... writes:



> I think it said the following:

> R.A. 01 -119:16

> Dec 68 20 15

>



The above is not a valid RA number. Something is corrupted in your database,

and the keypad will need to have all the data re-installed. If you send it

in, we can turn it around the same day.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#2484 May 16, 2001

Roland,

I will do that. All that I need to send

is the key pad hand controller that plugs into

the mount?

and

To your attention or someone else?

Colt



chris1011@... wrote:

> In a message dated 5/16/2001 9:24:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> colt@... writes:

>

> > I think it said the following:

> > R.A. 01 -119:16

> > Dec 68 20 15

> >

>

> The above is not a valid RA number. Something is corrupted in your database,

> and the keypad will need to have all the data re-installed. If you send it

> in, we can turn it around the same day.

>

> Roland Christen

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



----------------------------

#2485 May 16, 2001

In a message dated 5/16/2001 11:25:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

colt@... writes:



> I will do that. All that I need to send

> is the key pad hand controller that plugs into

> the mount?

>



yes.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#2486 May 16, 2001

O.K. Thanks Roland. It went out UPS Red

30 minutes ago. You will have it tomorrow.

Colt



chris1011@... wrote:

> In a message dated 5/16/2001 11:25:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> colt@... writes:

>

> > I will do that. All that I need to send

> > is the key pad hand controller that plugs into

> > the mount?

> >

>

> yes.

>

> Roland Christen

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



----------------------------

#2487 May 16, 2001

Jeff and everyone else who responded to this,

Thank you for your suggestions. I thought that it

might have been a simple mistake on my part.



Colt Bednorz



"Jeffrey D. Gortatowsky" wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Jeffrey D. Gortatowsky" jgortatows@...>

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: "Colt Bednorz" colt@...>

> > > R.A. 01 -119:16

> > > Dec 68 20 15

> >

> > Hi Colt,

> >

> > This sounds suspiciously like the problem I had. My problem is The only

> fix

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>

> I am not sure where the "My problem is" came from (too fast editing), but

> let me be crystal clear, I had _no_ problem sending the controller back to

> AP. Indeed the service was excellent!

>

> Clear skies,

> Jeff

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



----------------------------

#2489 May 16, 2001

Hi Colt, I think It's a very good thing that the Database is in the Hand Controller, instead of elsewhere on the mount. I'm sure the Gang at AP will have this sorted out for you quickly.



Please keep us posted on how things go.

Mark



----------------------------

#2528 May 22, 2001

Roland,

My problem turned out to be in the hand controller unit,

and I tried out the loaner last night.

I drift aligned the mount, did a quick 2 star calibration, and

it pointed just fine. Everything was in the eyepiece and pretty

close to being centered. It's really amazing to watch this thing

when you put it through the paces the first time around.

It's a very smart mount! Tracks pretty good as well. g>



Colt Bednorz







----------------------------

#2529 May 22, 2001

In a message dated 5/22/2001 10:27:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

colt@... writes:



> I drift aligned the mount, did a quick 2 star calibration, and

> it pointed just fine. Everything was in the eyepiece and pretty

> close to being centered



Good to hear. We have no idea why the data gets corrupted sometimes. This is

a rare ocurrance, I have seen it before once or twice.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#2538 May 23, 2001

----- Original Message -----

From: chris1011@...>

> Good to hear. We have no idea why the data gets corrupted sometimes. This

is

> a rare ocurrance, I have seen it before once or twice.

>

> Roland Christen





I'm going to take a wild guess. Static?



----------------------------

#2539 May 23, 2001

If I was going to take a guess it wouldn't be

static.



It would be inductive kick from the drive motors

backing up into the power supply.





"Jeffrey D. Gortatowsky" wrote: >

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: chris1011@...>

> > Good to hear. We have no idea why the data gets corrupted sometimes. This

> is

> > a rare ocurrance, I have seen it before once or twice.

> >

> > Roland Christen

>

> I'm going to take a wild guess. Static?

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

> see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



----------------------------

#2540 May 23, 2001

In a message dated 5/23/2001 10:57:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

lopez@... writes:



> It would be inductive kick from the drive motors

> backing up into the power supply.

>

>

>



There's no such ting with the 4 quadrant driver. The power supply for the

keypad controller is totally seperate anyway. It has its own 5 volt regulated

supply built into the keypad. It does not operate directly from the 12 volt

supply.



Roland Christen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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