Re: [ap-gto] Re: 100 hours of astronomy in Poland - strange behavior of Mach-1


Apr 3, 2009

 


----------------------------

#24441 Apr 3, 2009

Hello to all



Last night we held the first of the series of public events and sky viewing

shows as a part of the "100 hours of astronomy" global event.



The photo-blog of the event (by the president of the Warsaw branch of

Polish Amateur Astronomers Association, comment n Polish) can be seen here:



astrojawil.pl/2009_04_02_ptma.htm



I have set my Mach-1 on Baader tripod and placed Takahashi Mewlon 210 on

top (later in the evening, also Synta 80ED). At the very beginning of the

observing session, I have observed a very strange behavior of my mount.

While pressing the N/S keys it moved to east or west, and vice versa. Also,

the first GOTO for daylight polar alignment from park-1 to Park-2 directed

the scope downwards. As you all expect by now, to my embarrassment I soon

discovered that I have somehow mixed RA and DEC servo cables :-) Hope not

to repeat this mistake again. I can assure you all that this viewing

session was a lot of fun for everybody, placing various objects (Moon,

Saturn, Ceres, double and multiple stars etc) in the FOV of the 2500mm FL

Mewlon.



Now for serious, there is just one thing which I do not like about Mach-1

(well another one is the polar finder, but it is a separate story) - the

way the mount head is attached to the tripod (or pier). The engaging parts

have tight tolerance and have to be precisely maneuvered in or out. It is

not the first case when I had some problems - a slight axial misalignment

while placing the mount in ADATRI locks the head in uneven position and it

can be quite frustrating to get it out and try again. A "plate on plate"

arrangement found in larger AP mounts as well as in many competitor's

mounts (all Takahashi) is far easier in attaching and detaching the head to

tripod. I know nobody came here with this problem yet, but I am going to

manufacture a custom made "plate on plate" type adapter for my own

convenience - one part will be permanently bolted to the Baader tripod,

another permanently to ADATRI and they will be securely held together with

one large knob from under the tripod hub (M12 or M16). Once done, I will

post you my results.



I am also very keen to hear details on the upcoming mount upgrade, although

I have not noticed any major problem with my mount so far.



Best regards



Pawel Lancucki



----------------------------

#24444 Apr 3, 2009

Czesc Pawel,



The frustration with mounting and dismounting the head to a pier in the

field, is something that I didn't like with my AP-900. Perhaps it is just

something you get used to after dozens of uses, but I thought there had to

be an easier way.



Have a look at AP's "Losmandy tripod adapter", introduced last year. It

works with the AP-900 and also with the MACH-1.

I find it a real joy to just drop or lift the head into the Losmandy cammed

slots, in my Losmandy HD tripod head, - or if you have a pier, a short

Losmandy-MA (Meade adapter), which is only 6 inches tall, serves as a pseudo

Losmandy tripod top. Setting up is so smooth and quick.



I think if I were you, with the wooden tripod, or any other, I would

consider permanently bolting the Losmandy-MA adapter to the wooden tripod,

converting it to "pseudo Losmandy-HD", and get the AP adapter to this. I

keep my AP rotating pier adapter permanently attached to the RA section of

my AP-900, for easy travel. With the wooden tripod arrangement, thee would

be just the two parts for set up -the configured tripod, and the configured

AP mount head - just three knobs.



I would also recommend getting the three large Losmandy knobs (from

AP), at the same time - no 6 tiny screws and washers to drop in the grass -

just drop, twist, and lock the 3 knobs. Actually, again to speed setup, and

avoid trying to insert bolts with cold hands in the dark, I keep the

Losmandy knobs attached to the mount, just backed off a couple of turns.



See my Losmandy G11 and AP-900 using the AP adapter, BOTH on Losmandy

tripods, in the Photo section.



HTH

Joe

----- Original Message -----

From: "Pawel T. Lancucki" pawel.lancucki@...>

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 10:58 AM

Subject: [ap-gto] 100 hours of astronomy in Poland - strange behavior of

Mach-1





>

> Hello to all

> Now for serious, there is just one thing which I do not like about Mach-1

> (well another one is the polar finder, but it is a separate story) - the

> way the mount head is attached to the tripod (or pier). The engaging parts

> have tight tolerance and have to be precisely maneuvered in or out. It is

> not the first case when I had some problems - a slight axial misalignment

> while placing the mount in ADATRI locks the head in uneven position and it

> can be quite frustrating to get it out and try again. A "plate on plate"

> arrangement found in larger AP mounts as well as in many competitor's

> mounts (all Takahashi) is far easier in attaching and detaching the head

> to

> tripod. I know nobody came here with this problem yet, but I am going to

> manufacture a custom made "plate on plate" type adapter for my own

> convenience - one part will be permanently bolted to the Baader tripod,

> another permanently to ADATRI and they will be securely held together with

> one large knob from under the tripod hub (M12 or M16). Once done, I will

> post you my results.

>

> I am also very keen to hear details on the upcoming mount upgrade,

> although

> I have not noticed any major problem with my mount so far.

>

> Best regards

>

> Pawel Lancucki







----------------------------

#24445 Apr 3, 2009

In a message dated 4/3/09 11:10:19 AM, J.Zeglinski@... writes:



> . . The frustration with mounting and dismounting the head to a pier in the

> field, is something that I didn't like with my AP-900. Perhaps it is just

> something you get used to after dozens of uses, but I thought there had to

> be an easier way

>





What!!!...you've got to be kidding.



Mounting (placing the RA axis unit) on the pier cap is about as easy as it

gets!!!

Be sure the azimuth adjusters are screwed back a little.

Lift the 900 (or 1200 for that matter) and set it on the pier adapter,

centering the center button head in the middle of the pier adapter in the hole in

the center of the mount bottom plate.

Screw in and tighten the four bolt-knobs and you are done.



Attach the DEC unit, screw in the counterweight shaft, add counterweights.

Attach your OTA, cameras, etc. and you're done.



Kent Kirkley











**************

Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or

less. (food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



----------------------------

#24446 Apr 3, 2009

Hi Kent,



I thought somebody would provide a retort :-) ... so I phrased my reply

somewhat cautiously.

To each his own. For me there are far too many screws and even worse -

washers - involved, just asking for a problem.



Now if the AP mount had been designed with at least, "captured", Pier

Adapter Knob washers ( so that he bolt and washer were a single unit), and

if there were some way for transporting WITHOUT fully removing those FOUR

P. A. Knobs entirely, then I might have relented. Nothing worse than

fumbling around in the dark, in -10C weather, making sure you have all FOUR

knobs, and all FOUR washers - and, oh yes, you still have enough tactile

sensitivity or keen eyesight, to make sure the round edges of each washer

are pointing downward, before tightening the knobs - or else you will gouge

the nice paint job.

Wouldn't it be nice if at least those washers were painted white side up, so

at least you can eyeball correct positioning, without trying to determine

which why the washer has been honed?



Of course, it's easy - but takes too due diligence, time, and care to

prevent loss - or else pack everything up because you lost one of the FOUR

removable washers or knobs.



But then - that's me going up the down staircase - I don't have to use any

washers, and all knobs are loosely screwed into my AP adapter. It's just a

matter, of drop, twist, hand tighten. I think in a race, I would be set up

faster than you.



For me, the Losmandy tripod and AP adapter combo are seventh heaven.

I know I am NOT going to convince you, Keith, but I hope you also see my

point of view.

In fact, I would love to hear the down side of Losmandy/AP-900 portable

arrangement. Maybe I missed something, and am carelessly enjoying my set up.



With apologies, Keith, and I do thank you for the reply - I am really

being a bit facetious, but I "think" I am correct.



Joe





----- Original Message -----

From: kgkirkley@...>

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 1:17 PM

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 100 hours of astronomy in Poland - strange behavior of

Mach-1







In a message dated 4/3/09 11:10:19 AM, J.Zeglinski@... writes:





> The frustration with mounting and dismounting the head to a pier in the

> field, is something that I didn't like with my AP-900. Perhaps it is just

> something you get used to after dozens of uses, but I thought there had to

> be an easier way

>





What!!!...you've got to be kidding.



Mounting (placing the RA axis unit) on the pier cap is about as easy as it

gets!!!

Be sure the azimuth adjusters are screwed back a little.

Lift the 900 (or 1200 for that matter) and set it on the pier adapter,

centering the center button head in the middle of the pier adapter in the

hole in

the center of the mount bottom plate.

Screw in and tighten the four bolt-knobs and you are done.



Attach the DEC unit, screw in the counterweight shaft, add counterweights.

Attach your OTA, cameras, etc. and you're done.



Kent Kirkley











**************

Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or

less. (food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







---------------



To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links



----------------------------

#24447 Apr 3, 2009

Joe, please see below........



Hi Kent,



I thought somebody would provide a retort :-) ... so I phrased my reply

somewhat cautiously.

To each his own. For me there are far too many screws and even worse -

washers - involved, just asking for a problem.



Of course, different strokes for different folks.........sure everything we

use from toasters to cars could be improved in many ways.....but Joe, you seem

to want to make things more complicated than they have to be.







Now if the AP mount had been designed with at least, "captured", Pier

Adapter Knob washers ( so that he bolt and washer were a single unit), and

if there were some way for transporting WITHOUT fully removing those FOUR

P. A. Knobs entirely, then I might have relented. Nothing worse than

fumbling around in the dark, in -10C weather, making sure you have all FOUR

knobs, and all FOUR washers - and, oh yes, you still have enough tactile

sensitivity or keen eyesight, to make sure the round edges of each washer

are pointing downward, before tightening the knobs - or else you will gouge

the nice paint job.

Again....sure, I suppose captive screws would be an improvement, but then it

might add another level of complexity; ie. captive screws would hang down

below the bottom plate making alignment when lowering the mount very difficult

and probably resulting in marring the finish on the pier adapter.





Wouldn't it be nice if at least those washers were painted white side up, so

at least you can eyeball correct positioning, without trying to determine

which why the washer has been honed?

Gee....a $4 can of white Krylon and a sheet of newspaper and 10 minutes will

correct that.

Ever considered that?







Of course, it's easy - but takes too due diligence, time, and care to

prevent loss - or else pack everything up because you lost one of the FOUR

removable washers or knobs.

It's all a matter of habit.

I keep the 4 knobs, Y cable, power cable and hex wrench set in a zip lock

bag in my 1200 mount case, along with the manual and printed out 'support'

sheets and I've never forgotten them.

Daylight or darkness.







But then - that's me going up the down staircase - I don't have to use any

washers, and all knobs are loosely screwed into my AP adapter. It's just a

matter, of drop, twist, hand tighten. I think in a race, I would be set up

faster than you.



For me, the Losmandy tripod and AP adapter combo are seventh heaven.

I know I am NOT going to convince you, Keith, but I hope you also see my

point of view.

In fact, I would love to hear the down side of Losmandy/AP-900 portable

arrangement. Maybe I missed something, and am carelessly enjoying my set up.

I'm not sure there is a downside.

Perhaps you could post some photographs of your set-up.

In the first place, I was originally responding to your statement that it is

difficult to mount an AP900 (or 1200 for that matter).







With apologies, Keith, and I do thank you for the reply - I am really

being a bit facetious, but I "think" I am correct.



By the way....it's "Kent" not Keith.

You got it correct the first time.





Kent Kirkley

----- Original Message -----

From: kgkirkley@...>

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 1:17 PM

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 100 hours of astronomy in Poland - strange behavior of

Mach-1







In a message dated 4/3/09 11:10:19 AM, J.Zeglinski@... writes:





> The frustration with mounting and dismounting the head to a pier in the

> field, is something that I didn't like with my AP-900. Perhaps it is just

> something you get used to after dozens of uses, but I thought there had to

> be an easier way

>





What!!!...you've got to be kidding.



Mounting (placing the RA axis unit) on the pier cap is about as easy as it

gets!!!

Be sure the azimuth adjusters are screwed back a little.

Lift the 900 (or 1200 for that matter) and set it on the pier adapter,

centering the center button head in the middle of the pier adapter in the

hole in

the center of the mount bottom plate.

Screw in and tighten the four bolt-knobs and you are done.



Attach the DEC unit, screw in the counterweight shaft, add counterweights.

Attach your OTA, cameras, etc. and you're done.



Kent Kirkley











**************

Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or

less. (food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







---------------



To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links















---------------



To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list

see groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links









**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or

less. (food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#24449 Apr 3, 2009

Hi Kent,



My apologies for getting your name wrong, at the end. The brain got a

bit weary, after formulating my reply.



Yes, I know, a paint job for the washers, is easily done - even easier

at the factory. Besides, I no longer have that problem.

As for bits and pieces, go out when it gets pitch dark, and spill some of

the contents of your small items carry pouch, on tall grass, or snow in

winter. Wonder how long it takes to recover all the items, possibly the

following spring.



For example, last summer, I lost the "washer" from under the DC socket

on the CP3 panel. I was down on my knees in short grass, with a bar magnet,

for over a week, and never found it. Unfortunately, I also discovered that

the washer thickness is critical for a firm power cable lock down - the

replacement I bought at an electronics store, was 50% thicker, and would not

fix the CP3 panel power dropouts - had to ask AP for one. So, I know how a

washer can ruin a field trip, even to the back yard. Perhaps that is why I

am washer and small parts paranoid - but this is OT.



I no longer have that concern.



I'm glad you are more than happy with your standard AP tripod arrangement,

as I am with mine. I didn't mean it as a swipe of any kind.



Before I sign off, as I stated previously, have a look at my "twins"

(before I got rid of my Losmandy G11).

It is in the group's AP PHOTOS section, second album, titled: AP-900 on

LOSMANDY G11 Tripod



Good talking with you, Kent.



Best regards,

Joe



----------------------------

#24450 Apr 3, 2009

Thanks for the photos! Very cool.



Rich

----- Original Message -----

From: "Pawel T. Lancucki" pawel.lancucki@...>

To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 7:58 AM

Subject: [ap-gto] 100 hours of astronomy in Poland - strange behavior of Mach-1





>

> Hello to all

>

> Last night we held the first of the series of public events and sky viewing

> shows as a part of the "100 hours of astronomy" global event.

>

> The photo-blog of the event (by the president of the Warsaw branch of

> Polish Amateur Astronomers Association, comment n Polish) can be seen here:

>

> astrojawil.pl/2009_04_02_ptma.htm

>

> I have set my Mach-1 on Baader tripod and placed Takahashi Mewlon 210 on

> top (later in the evening, also Synta 80ED). At the very beginning of the

> observing session, I have observed a very strange behavior of my mount.

> While pressing the N/S keys it moved to east or west, and vice versa. Also,

> the first GOTO for daylight polar alignment from park-1 to Park-2 directed

> the scope downwards. As you all expect by now, to my embarrassment I soon

> discovered that I have somehow mixed RA and DEC servo cables :-) Hope not

> to repeat this mistake again. I can assure you all that this viewing

> session was a lot of fun for everybody, placing various objects (Moon,

> Saturn, Ceres, double and multiple stars etc) in the FOV of the 2500mm FL

> Mewlon.

>

> Now for serious, there is just one thing which I do not like about Mach-1

> (well another one is the polar finder, but it is a separate story) - the

> way the mount head is attached to the tripod (or pier). The engaging parts

> have tight tolerance and have to be precisely maneuvered in or out. It is

> not the first case when I had some problems - a slight axial misalignment

> while placing the mount in ADATRI locks the head in uneven position and it

> can be quite frustrating to get it out and try again. A "plate on plate"

> arrangement found in larger AP mounts as well as in many competitor's

> mounts (all Takahashi) is far easier in attaching and detaching the head to

> tripod. I know nobody came here with this problem yet, but I am going to

> manufacture a custom made "plate on plate" type adapter for my own

> convenience - one part will be permanently bolted to the Baader tripod,

> another permanently to ADATRI and they will be securely held together with

> one large knob from under the tripod hub (M12 or M16). Once done, I will

> post you my results.

>

> I am also very keen to hear details on the upcoming mount upgrade, although

> I have not noticed any major problem with my mount so far.

>

> Best regards

>

> Pawel Lancucki

>

>



----------------------------

#24456 Apr 6, 2009

Pawel,



Yes, very cool photos...I congratulate your event and on the attractiveness

of your attendees!



I assume that the Mewlon 210 rides well on the Mach 1 (after you got the

cabling correct)? It certainly has a very nice and classic look on the

Baader Tripod...Unfortunately, I just had to turndown the offer of a Mach 1

from AP recently, however I have a 900 GTO CP3 on which my AP 155 EDFS F/7

rides very securely. I sometimes toy with the idea of adding another scope

with a bit more aperature to my now small collection...perhaps a Mewlon?



Here in Northern California, we did a number of star parties in celebration

of "100 hours of astronomy" this past weekend, including one I supported

sponsored by the Peninsula Astronomical Society at Foothill College in Los

Altos on Saturday night.



www.foothill.fhda.edu/ast/news.htm#Anchor1



(sorry no photos yet)



While I was pleased at the number of folks who turned out for our

event...probably 20 scopes, including another AP - a 180 EDT riding on an

AP1200 GTO CP3 - and over 100 visitors over 3 hours...somehow it seems that

I didn't observe same number of attractive persons at my scope, as you did

at yours!



Best Regards,



Hank Sielski in Sunnyvale



On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 7:58 AM, Pawel T. Lancucki pawel.lancucki@... > wrote:



>

> Hello to all

>

> Last night we held the first of the series of public events and sky viewing

> shows as a part of the "100 hours of astronomy" global event.

>

> The photo-blog of the event (by the president of the Warsaw branch of

> Polish Amateur Astronomers Association, comment n Polish) can be seen here:

>

> astrojawil.pl/2009_04_02_ptma.htm

>

> I have set my Mach-1 on Baader tripod and placed Takahashi Mewlon 210 on

> top (later in the evening, also Synta 80ED). At the very beginning of the

> observing session, I have observed a very strange behavior of my mount.

> While pressing the N/S keys it moved to east or west, and vice versa. Also,

> the first GOTO for daylight polar alignment from park-1 to Park-2 directed

> the scope downwards. As you all expect by now, to my embarrassment I soon

> discovered that I have somehow mixed RA and DEC servo cables :-) Hope not

> to repeat this mistake again. I can assure you all that this viewing

> session was a lot of fun for everybody, placing various objects (Moon,

> Saturn, Ceres, double and multiple stars etc) in the FOV of the 2500mm FL

> Mewlon.

>

> Now for serious, there is just one thing which I do not like about Mach-1

> (well another one is the polar finder, but it is a separate story) - the

> way the mount head is attached to the tripod (or pier). The engaging parts

> have tight tolerance and have to be precisely maneuvered in or out. It is

> not the first case when I had some problems - a slight axial misalignment

> while placing the mount in ADATRI locks the head in uneven position and it

> can be quite frustrating to get it out and try again. A "plate on plate"

> arrangement found in larger AP mounts as well as in many competitor's

> mounts (all Takahashi) is far easier in attaching and detaching the head to

> tripod. I know nobody came here with this problem yet, but I am going to

> manufacture a custom made "plate on plate" type adapter for my own

> convenience - one part will be permanently bolted to the Baader tripod,

> another permanently to ADATRI and they will be securely held together with

> one large knob from under the tripod hub (M12 or M16). Once done, I will

> post you my results.

>

> I am also very keen to hear details on the upcoming mount upgrade, although

> I have not noticed any major problem with my mount so far.

>

> Best regards

>

> Pawel Lancucki

>

>

>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







----------------------------

#24470 Apr 8, 2009

Hi All,



Many thanks for your comments.



In the meantime, I have also updated my little web gallery with my own

images:



www.pbase.com/plancucki/a_trip_090402_ptma



As of Mewlon 210 on AP Mach-1 - this combo works perfectly and is very

stable - especially when the tripod is seated into a hard soil. Vibrations

are almost nonexistent, even at highest power. Actually, Mach-1 should also

support Mewlon 250, which - I am told - is a sort of quantum leap, but I

cannot afford one now. Mewlon 210 works surprisingly well on DSO, in direct

comparison the images were comparable (dimmer of course) than in 27cm

Dobsonian.



Joe - I do not plan to use the Losmandy compatible adapters. I think a

simple "plate on plate" approach will be the easiest and most convenient

AND I have a machinist-friend who can make the adapters to my specs.



So far, I also have an "accessory box" for my mach-1 which contains all

important lose bits and pieces (cw shaft, drive, handpad, polar scope, all

cables and bolts needed in the field, small level, some spare tools, bolts,

washers, fuses etc):



www.pbase.com/plancucki/atm_mach1_accys



And for not mixing the cables by accident in the future - I have placed a

marker on RA cable (piece of white electrical tape wound around the cable

close to the plug) :-).



Clear skies



Pawel Lancucki



----------------------------

#24473 Apr 8, 2009

In a message dated 4/8/2009 2:42:44 AM Central Daylight Time,

pawel.lancucki@... writes:



> In the meantime, I have also updated my little web gallery with my own

> images:

>

> www.pbase.com/plancucki/a_trip_090402_ptma

>



Very nice setup!



Rolando





**************

New Deals on Dell Netbooks . Now starting at $299 (A

HREF=pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219939010x1201342897/aol?redir=h

ttp:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213771626%3B35379597%3Bw)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Contact Us
This Site's Privacy Policy
Google's privacy policies

S
e
n
i
o
r
T
u
b
e
.
o
r
g